Westward Ho! Field-grown marijuana allowed in state's proposed regulations

[Baclava]

OLYMPIA — Marijuana could be grown outdoors in the sunshine — no grow lights or greenhouses required — under draft rules for the state’s new marijuana industry.

The rules, approved by the state Liquor Control Board during a meeting last week, establish regulations for pot producers, processers and retailers and set the stage for legal recreational marijuana use to begin early next year.

The decision to allow outdoor grows also increases the potential for pot as a crop in Washington’s sunny side east of the Cascade Range, where irrigated fields of apples, hops and wine grapes dot the landscape, though most agriculture groups are discouraging longtime farmers from growing it.

http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20130706/NEWS/130709980/field-grown-marijuana-allowed-in-states-proposed-regulations

---------------------------

I feel my legally documented glaucoma acting up again...maybe I can get a govt. grant

[RainDog]

1. better for the environment n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

2. Awesome for the environment. Replenish the soil and clean the air.

It's a no brainer.

[RainDog]

6. also stops using so much electricity

water, and chemicals.

[greiner3]

17. You are correct;

However, hydroponics produces quicker (3-4 months seed-to-bud) and one can assure 100% female plants by using feminized seeds.

Of course, I'm just saying!

[RainDog]

23. true

I think outdoor growing with be great for strains with high CBD to THC ratios for medical use, tho.

I read a while back, when I was reading about hemp horticulture, that, with wind drift for pollen, etc. you need a barrier of 50 feet for hemp v. "marijuana."

So, someone could still plant feminized seeds outdoors with success as long as they worked with neighbors to not keep distances between types of cannabis (i.e. hemp vs. cannabis grown for the bud.)

[AgingAmerican]

24. Most growers use clones from a female plant

Nt

[RainDog]

25. someone planting a field would use seeds

simply because it's cheaper and less work intensive.

[AgingAmerican]

26. It also adds a month to the growing process

Nt

[RainDog]

29. it's the difference between boutique and crop

and that would be reflected in the costs, I would assume.

that's why I think CBD-rich strains would be a better crop for this kind of planting.

[AgingAmerican]

32. Yeah, I saw some CBD rich honey oil at the Cannabis farmers market todaY

The guy was explaining it to me, it's very medically active without the 'ton of bricks' THC buzz.

My sister used some of the high CBD oil for her arthritis, said she could function the next day. With the honey oil she had used previously, she would have a hard time in school the next day because all the THC would leave her foggy for half a day. She injests a dab of it before bed and is pain free the whole next day - and not stoned. She did say, however, that if she gets up to pee in the middle of the night, she is so stoned that she staggers to the bathroom

She also mentioned that she sleeps like a rock on the stuff.

I used edibles when I went through Hep C treatment. It saved my ass. Only thing that worked consistently for the nausea and extreme insomnia.

[RainDog]

33. CBD-rich strains are also for epilepsy

some people think everyone will walking around stoned and whatever... and probably a few will... but would anyway. Once the novelty has worn off, however, by opening up this market, I think a lot of people will find uses for cannabis that aren't just about getting a buzz.

I have nothing against that, btw.

I just think that there are lots of ways to utilize cannabis' medical properties and, since Reagan, the big deal was to load up on the THC on indoor crops for more bang for the buck/grow space.

but with other spaces available, other uses can become more affordable.

I think that's a good thing.

[Baclava]

3. that too

I feel I can manage a sustainable franchise with your help....a mere $2M government loan would be sufficient for a start-up - referrals are welcome

[Boudica the Lyoness]

4. We are going to look into growing it.

It'll do great in our sunny climate, under irrigation. I can only imagine the number of people helping themselves to free samples.

BTW; Eastern Washington is also know for its wheat, hay and potatoes.

[East Coast Pirate]

13. That could be a problem.

I can only imagine the number of people helping themselves to free samples.

You'd have to have a brick wall, a security guard and dogs.

[Cha]

5. Wow, I never thought I'd see that this was even possible!

If done and successful in Washington.. for Washington, I don't see why other states wouldn't want to follow suit. Some faster than others.

thanks Baclava

[pipoman]

7. Yep..never thought I'd see it either..

in Denver a few months ago and some guy in the park was selling branded, packaged mj items..they even had QR codes on them...he boasted 30 varieties, baked goods, and concentrates..pretty surreal..

[Cha]

10. I'm from Colorado originally and remembering

smoking pot there when I went back for my 20th high school reunion('82) from California. I was sneaking pot and everyone else was drinking alcohol.

That park scene sounds Surreal alright! No, wonder my sister in Cal was thinking about moving back to Colorado.. Until she got her Medical Marijuana Certificate, that is.

[pipoman]

15. Depending how the regs are

written, the huge difference is, if one wishes to partake they aren't in a database forever..like with a mmj card. The guy in the park was breaking the law, just nobody cares..the city/state would have a problem prosecuting them in the absence of laws not contradictory to amendment 64. My son lives in downtown Denver neighbor is a delivery salesman selling under A.64 for a dispensary..this guy says he makes deliveries daily to the big hotels downtown and believes that the tourism numbers for Denver are going to see a big increase for 2013..of coarse that is the take of a pot salesman..

[Cha]

18. lol Pot salesman sounds like he may

be on to something. If one likes to toke up to relax who wouldn't want to take advantage of no stigma, good ol lax laws, and availability?

[pipoman]

34. It is the availability of

an unbelievable variety..a big part of the surrealism of the sight..back in my day you bought a bag you took what you got...there it is a study of varieties for desired effect..

I was reading somewhere that most employers were not raising the tolerance on concentration levels from the current zero tolerance..we'll see how that works out for them..

[Baclava]

9. it is miraculous

Green Power!

Green Power!


the time is now

yea verily

[calimary]

16. Hear hear! AND here here! Hopefully!

So great, this broadened thinking on weed! I'm one of those who's seriously amazed that this is happening. At long last! Did we ever REALLY think we'd see the day?

[Cha]

19. Yeah! Hope your glaucoma gets

better, Baclava

[Comrade Grumpy]

8. Great! Very enlightened move by the liquor control board.

Grow lights can't compete with sunshine, and sunshine is free!

I just put my plants in the ground today. I grow nine in a 100-square foot plot, per Sonoma County rules. All nice and legal, see? Well, except for the feds, but they don't have enough DEA agents to mess with penny ante grows like mine.

"Sonoma Sungrown." Can I trademark that?

[awoke_in_2003]

11. I wonder if the power companies will fight this. nt

[Alkene]

12. Be sure to include the Pacific Northwest in your future travel plans!

We could use the tourist trade, and (for those in the U.S) we're closer than the Netherlands; no passport required.

Oh, and lots of other attractions as well

[NealK]

14. K&R

Good luck with the glaucoma!

[madrchsod]

20. i forgot about glaucoma...yup.. i'm legally doc too!

[SHRED]

21. All good until the Feds show up

[politicat]

22. Iirc, marijuana plants only flower when they've got a balanced day-night cycle.

I can't be near any hemp plant unless I want a nasty case of anaphylactic shock, but there was an article from the Royal Society from about 1870 that documented why cannabis grown in British hothouses was ineffective compared to that grown near the equator. The plant requires the 12 hour day/night cycle to flower, and that's sharply limited outside of the tropics.

Not to mention that people have been cross-breeding and manipulating the plant for generations if not centuries, and most current strains may now be adapted to hydroponics.

Given the number of invasive species we in the western states are already dealing with, introducing another doesnt seem like the best idea.

[RainDog]

27. hemp grows wild in most midwestern/southern states

it's called ditchweed and it's left over from the massive hemp-growing effort of WWII (when cannabis was "unofficially" re-legalized because of its use as an industrial crop. It has been grown here since the 1600s in one form or another.

so far it hasn't taken over the world.

Just because a plant is a hybrid has nothing to do with its ability to grow outdoors.

tons of vegetative plants in people's gardens are hybrids - bred to have shortened growing cycles, etc. --tomatoes are one such plant.

[politicat]

36. It's an introduced species -- not wild.

It's not indigenous to North America. Which means we don't have native species to keep it in check.

It hasn't taken over the Midwest -- it's not kudzu, thank the benevolent DNA -- but it is invasive. It's also useless as a weed -- nothing will eat it -- goats give it a pass -- and minimal psychoactive or medicinal content in the descendent feral species. Ditchweed will ruin a combine -- the fibers are strong and tough and they swell when wet, so they'll wrap around the shaft and crack it. That's how I learned I'm allergic.

It is not feral in the Pacific Northwest yet, and I don't think it will go feral there (too cool, too wet, too much competition) but here in Colorado, it could go invasive fast. Cannabis has about the same requirements as bindweed, blackberry and Russian thistle, and those are deeply entrenched and massively hard to eradicate, while choking off native species.

I'm happy about legalization -- worked for it, in fact, despite the fact that the stuff can kill me quick* -- but given our climate and conditions, I'm very glad we're keeping it indoors.

* I worked for legalization for selfish reasons -- I could not get an Epi-pen or a medical alert before legalization. Imagine being allergic to peanuts, and knowing that there's a vast unregulated trade in peanut butter, but since they're technically illegal, there's no reason one should ever encounter peanuts. But the law isn't enforced, so there's peanut butter EVERYWHERE -- smeared on doorknobs, added to random foods, fabrics and cosmetics, passed around at social gatherings. I'm less likely to die now. Also, I find recreational stoners less annoying than recreational drunks, and far less dangerous to other people.

[RainDog]

42. I'm glad you were able to get an epi-pen

are you also allergic to beer? (I wonder if it's hops, in general, or one specific version, iow.)

I wonder what equipment farmers used to harvest hemp in the 1940s?

Other nations with hemp farming industries use harvesters, and have for years, so it's not as though this plant has not been used and managed in France, Canada, etc. for a while now.

You know, if you look at lists of invasive plants - burning bush is included, as well as many other ornamentals used throughout gardens in the U.S. - and, for the most part, those are manageable, so I'm not too worried about hemp. As you note, it's not kudzu.

[politicat]

37. I'm not saying that hybridization is bad -- just that the current varietals seem to be adapted for

Hydroponics.

Taking cuttings from plants that are adapted and putting them outside will probably result in low-quality weed, at least until region-specific varietals are bred. Plants grown from seed have a 50/50 chance of being male, so half are useless for anything but fiber. Seems like a lot of work for an uncertain crop.

[RainDog]

41. I don't think fields would be grown from cuttings

Cannabis seeds have been bred now that will not produce males. These are called "feminized seeds." I would imagine there are still occasional hermaphroditic plants from these - but - the amount of risk of male pollination is hugely reduced.

I'm not speaking from my personal experience growing a field of cannabis - but I know that in places in the world where cannabis is pretty much still solely grown outdoors - Afghanistan, Africa, etc. fields and fields of nothing but in some places - farmers simply go into the fields and remove the male plants. With feminized seeds, this work would be greatly reduced.

In these places that grow outdoors, they produce some of the most potent cannabis in the world (and these places were the landraces for so many hybrids.) These hybrids don't require the same environment that created the landraces.

People in northern California grow outdoors every year, as well. From what I hear, some people prefer the taste of cannabis grown in soil, just as some people prefer tomatoes from soil.

If a male pollinates a female cannabis plant - that doesn't mean it is useless for anything but fiber. It's only within the last few decades that people developed the "bud only" idea about cannabis, and, from what I hear, brick weed, which still sells quite well, is no where near the quality of medical/boutique, and is a mix of leaves, bud and whatever - and it sells to someone.

the hybrid seeds that are now used don't, generally, mimic the hemp/sativa - the long stalks for fiber, etc. Indica/sativa strains are bushier. a growing technique called "sea of green" became the standard to produce plants with little growth on the stems (achieved by placing plants close together and by hand trimming.) The reason for this was to guide the plant's energies toward creating larger buds at the top of the plant, rather than numerous small buds along various stems.

if someone planted an outdoor crop and wanted to sell for the purpose of making ointments, etc. they could and would include leaves and buds - what's now considered the shake and the bud. That's already how hash and oil is produced.

Going for a crop that can sacrifice some labor in return for use in oil, etc. - that's how I could see this being cost/price effective, but, that's just my speculation. This is the sort of "economy of scale" outdoor growth that would be good for oils that are more anti-inflammatory than psychoactive.

[NoOneMan]

30. Huh?

It will veg during spring/summer around the 18/6 and then flower come October when the days get shorter. Artificial lighting just mimics the earth's cycle. Theyll do fine in nature as they have thus far. Different strains flower differently BTW and some are well adapted to northern climates

[politicat]

39. Including the current high potency strains?

Sure, the natural cycle does fine for the plants being grown 40+ years ago, and for one crop a year for a low-consumption population. But that's not us anymore -- we're accustomed to a higher per capita level of availability with higher levels of THC and boutique varietals. From what I'm hearing in gardening circles, maintaining quality and quantity requires the current strains to be groomed to improve their medicinal content and the point of going hydroponic is to keep the supply coming. Growing outside will probably be disappointing for those accustomed to higher quality. A cold snap or a drought or aphids... And the puff goes poof.

Having a green thumb is quite an asset locally, and the local gardening club was all cannabis, all winter long. (Which got tedious, but less tedious than the orchid bores.) If I could bear to touch the stuff, I'd probably make a better living as a grower; it sounds like it's on par with indoor citrus and gardenias -- not the easiest plant, but by no means avocado or asparagus. But indoor citrus and gardenias are not for a novice who has kept a fern alive or planted a Burpee tomato and gotten a pint of cherry tomatoes.

[NoOneMan]

40. Yes, including those

And there are plenty of all organic growers that make some damn fine smoke compared to nuted-up hydroponics (though thats a debate Im not going into). Of course, you'll never get the absolute maximum potency outside without absolute control of lighting and weather conditions, but you will get maximum ROI/ROE (return on energy invested). Growing organic and natural isn't as time consuming.

And BTW, any loss in potency can easily be made up in overall weight from growing outside. You can get bigger buds from a much healthier and larger root systems, which are not limited by pot/bag volume. Of course, you can't do it year round.

[nebenaube]

31. regardless of the propoganda

Cannabis has been here since before the paleo-indians.

[politicat]

38. Not in North America.

It is an introduced species here. There is no evidence of it in the archeological record before 1650. It's a valuable plant; indigenous people's NEVER missed it and always cultivated it because string and psychoactives are too useful. It wasn't here. Had it been, indigenous textile production probably would have been more advanced.

[RainDog]

44. The anthropological evidence indicates African and European introduction

One linguist puts the use of cannabis for intoxication back to 5000 bc, and claims the changes in word usage from the late Palaeolithic and early Neolithic indicates when people began to use cannabis as an intoxicant (i.e. they gave the plant different names, based upon usage.) Agriculture began around 10,000 bc and the use of hemp in pottery in Asia is in artifacts from 8000 bc. So, cannabis is one of the longest cultivated plants in human history.

The land bridge between Asia and the Pacific west overlaps with the early Neolithic. The Yupik are one of the oldest indigenous groups and they arrived in Alaska and that area in 3000 bc. They were coming from Siberia, but it's possible they had trade with Asia. I don't know if there are any archeological findings of cannabis use in the Alaskan area among early indigenous people.

China, in 1500 bc, first mentions cannabis in writing, tho obviously this was not its first use, since it had already been developed as a medicine and had already developed two linguistic categories for the cannabis used for different reasons. This time (the Bronze Age into the Iron Age) is also the time of the emergence of written language... and one of the first things the Chinese wrote about was cannabis.

Otherwise, tho the route is not totally without dispute, the thinking is that the plant was carried by humans, not wind/pollen moved, from place to place around the world, because it was one of the earliest cultivated/traded crops because of its industrial, medical and intoxicating value. The region of linguistic and archeological origin is Central Asia and South Asia, with a band of early linguistic usage across central Europe.

The Scythians lived where cannabis is indigenous - Central Asia. The Scythian empire shared borders with the Roman empire, and present day Arabia, India, Russia and central Europe. They were also horseback riding people who could cover distances easily. "Cannabis" stems from a Scythian word, "kannab."

Some linguists, botanists, etc. claim the Hebrew "kanah-bosem" (mentioned in Exodus) was cannabis anointing oil for high priests. This would place cannabis among Jewish culture before 1400 bc. (Others have speculated that the oil Jesus used to heal was cannabis oil - epileptics, who were considered demon possessed, have discovered in modern times that cannabis stops their seizures - as it does for people with MS and CP.)

Europeans were aware of cannabis-smoking and eating in "prehistory." They lost this knowledge, along with other knowledge, during the Dark Ages of religious rule. In Europe, prior to the collapse of the Roman Empire, with northern European invaders, Pliny wrote about medical use. Herodotus, the "father of history," wrote about ceremonial/intoxicating use among the Scythians around 400 bc.

The Renaissance came to Europe via Arabian Spain. That goes back to the 800s, at its height, and, again, Arabian traders brought cannabis as part of their wares, along with knowledge of paper-making from China, etc. (which gets to hemp use.) The Arabs in Spain provided the initial translations of lost classical texts. So, just like the Arabs brought ancient philosophers back into the European world, they brought ancient medicine knowledge, too. The rise of the Renaissance coincides with the mention of cannabis, again, in writing in Europe.

Rabelais also wrote about its recreational use in the 1600s in France, and he noted other records of medical use from the 1400s, also in France. So, during the time when European explorers were sailing to the Americas - they were aware of cannabis usages beyond industrial ones. The area of Europe that financed so many explorations was the area of Europe where medical cannabis was reintroduced hundreds of years before.

The reason some people assume Africans brought cannabis to widespread knowledge here, beyond hemp, is because of its use in religious ceremonies among some African regional groups at the time of the slave trade - tho every group had its own description of the plant's powers - war, peace, and love were some of them. But it was considered very valuable and was often carried in a pouch around the neck. So, even if captured and taken, someone could've very well had non-hemp cannabis in a pouch around the neck.

Dutch traders wrote about the use of cannabis among Africans (in Africa) in the 1600s. And the Dutch (East India Co.) were traders of goods and people in the Americas. They brought indentured African (and European, too) workers to the U.S. in the 1600s. So, more likely than not, the religious use of cannabis among some Africans in America was part of their indigenous beliefs - first among indentured workers, then among slaves, when indentured workers were "too expensive."

When the slave trade began, white Christians slavers didn't want Africans to become Christians - because they didn't want to have to grant slaves full humanity, with all that implied for their economic practices. So, indigenous beliefs were practiced in the U.S. among slaves for a long time...and the slave trade itself went on for years, bringing all different African cultures and beliefs together.

There is a lot of archeological evidence of the use of dagga pipes (cannabis) in various parts of Africa. Seeds and pipes have been recovered from multiple regions and peoples, in western, northern and southern Africa. Those writing about these practices initially assumed the seeds were the value, but later realized the seeds were the artifacts/remains from the buds in which they were held.

There's physical evidence of the use pipes (i.e. smoking cannabis) in Africa by the Iron Age (1200 bc) - back to the Sudan/Ethiopia, where one of the greatest early civilizations was located - on the upper Nile. That area, Nubia, is now underwater because of a dam, so archeological remains are buried under both water and sand. This area was where the Queen of Sheba came from (whom Solomon mentions), and was a natural trade area for Arabia and India because of proximity.

Linguistic evidence indicates cannabis came to Africa from either or both the Scythians/Arabs and from India - from the common word "bhang" and its variants among Arab and African languages. Religious and recreational use in Africa, as in Arabia and India, goes far, far back in time.

The white Christians began campaigns to convert slaves in the mid-1700s, but this practice wasn't widely accepted until the 1800s (and this led to the split between different factions - this is when the Southern Baptists came into existence, because of their suport of slavery.) Prior to that, indigenous religions for Africans were practiced here for more than a hundred years.

We know Jefferson traded for some "Indo" cannabis - which is associated with "bhang" or "recreational" cannabis, not hemp. That would be Southeast Asian cannabis. Washington knew to separate males from females for buds, as he wrote about. But we know who was really working and managing those agricultural crops.

Just for the record - the founders were great experimenters. They became familiar with Iroquois democracy, that existed before the European version, because they weren't xenophobes. Franklin experimented with laughing gas when it was first discovered, with Erasmus Darwin (Charles' grandfather) and Priestly, etc... (Priestly was the founder of the Unitarian church, as well as the discoverer of oxygen.) So, to me, it is entirely consistent with the ethos of the Enlightenment to assume Franklin, Jefferson, etc... tho not all, of course... would familiarize themselves with aspects of African culture too, and, because they all read the classics, they would know about the ancient mentions of cannabis by two of the most important classical authors. It's less likely that they would not have known, considering their time and their inquisitiveness.

We also know that written records are very scarce from the pov of those who were brought here as slaves. Slavers didn't want to teach Africans to read or write - so the evidence we have about their early experiences here is limited by the ignorance of those writing about it. But this religious use was mentioned as far back as the 1600s.

[politicat]

45. Not arguing any of that.

It's just not a native species to North America. I know it was widespread in Eurasia and Africa -- shipbuilding and sails wouldn't have been possible without hemp, but the lack of hemp is clear in North America.

You're reading a Puritanism that I don't have -- my issue is with invasive species, not psychoactive control. The west's ecosystem is far more fragile than it looks, and we've got a century and a half of damage already. I object to any introduced plant that occupies the same ecological niche as buffalo grass. The native bunch grasses are already in trouble because we killed off their symbiotes (bison) and haven't replaced them. Those grasses are what keeps the high prairie from blowing away like it did during the Dust Bowl. We can't afford to lose them. Hemp (and blue grass and fescue and bindweed and russian thistle) doesn't have the right root system for this ecosystem, so it has the potential to displace the native species without providing the same return.

We're already losing the war with bindweed and russian thistle and leafy spurge.

[RainDog]

46. Yeah, we weren't arguing

I wasn't assuming you had any view, other than horticultural or anthropological ones that make sense to me.

I was just talking about whether or not cannabis was indigenous (and agreed it's not) and then just looked at what is known, or some of it, about the way that cannabis did come to the Americas, and how it was part of the history of the U.S.

...just cause I think that sort of stuff is interesting, as far as history goes.

[nebenaube]

47. Really?

So the paleo-indian mummy (back in the 70's) they had at the Smithsonian with the corn husk bag full of buds was just an anomaly? Because I have closeup photos of that somewhere around here.

[NoOneMan]

28. As long as they don't deforest to grow or use ferts/pesticides then good.

[liberal_at_heart]

35. I hate to say it, but that's just asking to have feds fly over and bust people.

[madokie]

43. How do I get this legally documented glaucoma?

I'm old and I think mine is acting up too, if I knew what it was that is