France, Too, Is Sweeping Up Data, Newspaper Reveals (though no info yet on France/US collaboration)

[KittyWampus]

PARIS — Days after President François Hollande sternly told the United States to stop spying on its allies, the newspaper Le Monde disclosed on Thursday that France has its own large program of data collection, which sweeps up nearly all the data transmissions, including telephone calls, e-mails and social media activity, that come in and out of France

snip

American officials had privately warned French officials to be careful about speaking with too much outrage about American espionage given that major European countries like France spy, too, and not just on their enemies.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/world/europe/france-too-is-collecting-data-newspaper-reveals.html?_r=0

[arely staircase]

1. of course they are

and I bet you we actually have more safeguards against abuse than they do.

[KittyWampus]

2. But France & Germany have populations more apt to protest LOUDLY

[snappyturtle]

7. This is not aimed at you directly but at your claim, as many do, that there are

safeguards. The FISA court? My question remains, why is the NSA pre-emptively collecting the data?

[arely staircase]

12. FISA court, yes.

And as for the "data they are collecting" what do you mean specifically? FWIW, I am not going to defend everything the NSA is doing. I believe the Patriot Act Should be revoked.

[snappyturtle]

21. I specifically mean, e.g., phone records. Why do they pass the cost of this collection,

and storage to the American taxpayer? For what? Building 1 million sq. ft. buildings to storage the info in....???? It all seems so over kill and ridiculous especially when our infrastructure needs work. If I do something terrible, sure, go to court and get warrant and seize my phone records from the carrier but until then I just think it's an enormous waste of time and treasury. imho

[arely staircase]

24. I agree it is overkill

their argument is that since the phone companies destroy these records after a certain time (relatively short), the NSA should archive them in case they are needed in future investigations.

[snappyturtle]

28. I know that's their given reason but I fear an over zealous prosecutor would spin

most anyone's innocuous conversations into treason, or something.

[Skittles]

3. I guess it would be OK for them to start unnecessary wars, too

[KittyWampus]

5. Nah, they leave stupid shit like that to the USA. Saves them bundles of money.

[Shivering Jemmy]

4. Everyone with the technical capability is doing this.

Everyone.

No exceptions.

[KittyWampus]

6. Even Canada

http://20committee.com/2012/10/28/canadas-big-beta-spy-scandal/

[snappyturtle]

9. Does the fact that other countries do this spying make it justifiable here in

the U.S.?

[KittyWampus]

10. No, but it helps put it in perspective. Especially since France & Germany are Social Democracies

with very vocal populations who do hit the streets and protest en masse.

[arely staircase]

14. And also puts in perspective the whole "Europe Outgraged over US spying" stories

posted here.

[Skittles]

15. it puts the swooners in perspecive

care to concentrate on AMERICA???

[arely staircase]

16. I don't know what that means

even with the CAPS.

[Skittles]

17. of course you don't

[KittyWampus]

18. "Swooners"? America doesn't exist in a vacuum.What does it tell you when social democracies

in Europe have the same PROBLEM as we do?

See, I said PROBLEM. Because it is a problem. We both see it as a problem.

Am I swooner too?

[Skittles]

19. YES YOU ARE

[arely staircase]

20. YOUR CAPS LOCK IS STUCK

[Skittles]

23. SO IS YOURS

[KittyWampus]

26. Skittles, even though I'm now an Idealist, I can out-do any Cynic on DU. The amount of $ getting

shoveled into the SURVEILLANCE/SECURITY black hole is global.

So while you can ride the Snowden/Wikileaks pony to trash Obama, I'm more interested in seeing things change.

Now you can bring up the Fourth Amendment and even the First… but those are abstractions the overwhelming mass of humanity isn't going to get as emotional over as MONEY.

Instead of trying to feel all intellectually superior and banging the Constitutional Drum… you need to start focusing like a laser on money.
Where it's going and how to influence where it's channeled.

Cause the Constitution & its Amendments get interpreted by the SCOTUS which is now a rightwing, corporate friendly majority.

if you or any other DU'er really wants to get a bite out of what's going on you will have to start concentrating on three things:

Where the money is going and attacking those entities
Bringing waves of court cases to try and get things out in the open
Getting more left leaning pols elected

You want to see the Surveillance state change? Get off your Constitutional high horse every once in a while.

[snappyturtle]

25. It doesn't help my belief in the Fourth Amendment. I really don't care what protections

the French or Germans offer their citizens.

[The Straight Story]

8. Who will give the French paper asylum?

[KittyWampus]

11. Haiti?

[flamingdem]

13. Those French are Fried

Busted

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Oh, we're just paying them back for winning our revolution for us.

[Cha]

27. Hypocrites.. pot shots at the United States when fucking

everyone is spying. BFD

[KittyWampus]

29. Pretty sure they were obligatory, half-hearted pot shots from European leaders.