Zimmerman said the gun was behind his hip.

[madaboutharry]

On the walk through video, he demonstrates that it was behind his hip.

I just wish someone would come out and say that Zimmerman had the gun out when he approached Trayvon. That is what I believe.

[madashelltoo]

1. Me too.

I think he had it when he approached Trayvon or he pulled it out when he was on top of the tussle.

[brush]

27. Access to zimmy's gun would have been blocked by a straddler

Wouldn't a straddling Martin have blocked zimmy's arm from reaching for the gun under and behind his hip, because that's exactly where Martin's knee and thigh would be if he were the one doing the straddling. If what zimmerman alleges is true (not my belief), his arms may have been free to move in front of a straddler's thighs but that would be it.

He would have had to reach around and under Martin's knee and thigh and under his own hip to get to the gun tucked into the rear attached holster. That would not only take arms about a foot longer but arms of Herculean strength to lift up his big body, weighed down even more by Martin's) enough to get the gun out from under all that weight.

And wasn't wannabe boy also taking MMA classes 3 times a week for a year? Didn't he learn anything about leverage and how to use his weigh advantage instead of just allowing a teen boy who he outweighed by 40 lbs, and who he had superior adult male upper body strength over, to just pummel him like a helpless rag doll without any offering any resistance?

And after all that alleged head bashing on concrete, he just needed a band-aid for treatment, no concussion, no skull fracture, no hemotoma, no blood on the sidewalk?

Sounds like he conked himself on the back of the head and nose with his own gun after he realized that he had fucked up big time by killing the kid instead of making the "heroic" citizen's arrest he had attempted.

That would explain how it was his own blood on the his own gun, not Martin's.

Sorry, zimmy, your story does not compute.

[uponit7771]

2. The PA should make sure this is known

[Lurks Often]

3. The burden is on the State to be able to prove that

Zimmerman had the gun out and I can see no way of them proving it.

[madashelltoo]

6. In Zim's re-enactment video,

He reaches behind his right side, not on his hip or near his groin. They can show it.

[Lurks Often]

8. That is not proof that Zimmerman had the gun out when he approached Martin n/t

[madashelltoo]

11. No. But it makes "how he retrieved it" more important.

[Lurks Often]

14. Not really

Since the state can't prove Zimmerman had the gun out or displayed when he approached Martin, Martin would have no LEGAL right to start a fight, no matter how creepy he felt Zimmerman may have been.

The case is going to come down to who the jury thinks struck the first blow, does the jury believe Zimmerman's injuries were caused by Martin and if yes, do they believe those injuries would cause a reasonable person to be in fear of death or grave bodily harm.

[uppityperson]

20. It comes down to can they believe the only eye witness who has been proven a liar.

[Lurks Often]

22. You're ignoring the physical evidence

and the State's inability to explain away Zimmerman's injuries

[uppityperson]

23. No, I am not. eom

[malaise]

26. +1,000

Zimmerman murdered that kid

[Bonduel]

32. Ok now prove it beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury

Not easy to do. If I am at 90% that it was murder and 10% that it was self defense than I would find him not guilty. Since what Zimmerman is saying is possible and there is no other witness then I would probably find him not guilty of murder.

[RockaFowler]

34. Trayvon is dead

Zimmerman murdered him.
Did Zim not shoot him now??
Murder is murder - sorry!

[Bonduel]

36. Are you telling me that there is never a case for self defense?

Because I think there are a lot of rape victims and abused women who would love to hear you tell them they are murderers because "He is dead"

[Atman]

38. Zim would not have needed "self defense" if he just minded his own business.

He STALKED Martin. He went after him. I call total bullshit on the point that Martin hid in the bushes so he could jump out at the guy carrying the gun. Total bullshit. It makes not sense. Zimmerman was hunting for one of the fucking punk assholes that always get away. It just makes no sense for Martin to attack the vigilante while he could have just hidden in the bushes until he had the chance to go home.

I'm testifying tomorrow.

[Bonduel]

39. None of that matters.

It doesn't matter that he got out of his car or that he followed Martin in the eyes of the law. It doesn't give Martin the right to jump out of the bushes and start bashing Zimmerman's head against the concrete.

I am not saying that is what happened. Everything before the 1st swing doesn't matter with regards to the self defense law.

[Atman]

41. He had a gun...

How about pulling it out and pointing it at Martin's forehead and saying "The police are on their way." Nope. He pointed the gun at Martin's heart and blew a hole in his chest. He had the option to NOT kill Trayvon Martin. He chose the other option. He is a killer. He knew he had the gun and that Trayvon was just an unarmed kid. Zim had the power over Martin. There was no reason to kill him. He knew police were on the way. He had a vigilante boner, and was thrilled to be able to kill one of the fucking punks that always get away.

[uppityperson]

42. You are comparing a rape victim & abused woman to Zimmy? Seriously?

[yardwork]

13. It is one more instance of Zimmerman not being truthful

The lies are starting to rack up. Zimmerman's credibility is zilch. At this point I assume that his entire story is fabricated.

[Lurks Often]

15. We both know you came to the assumption quite a while ago. n/t

[yardwork]

16. Yes I did. Zimmerman's lies were obvious.

[Auntie Bush]

4. I'd like to know how Zim could even reach the gun which was suppose to be behind his butt.

I too think the cowardly big shot had his gun drawn when or shortly after he confronted Trayvon and that's why Trayvon attacked him.

[EC]

5. Well, they already proved that Trayvon

ran away (fled) from Zimmerman, which means he was scared. That tells me that Zimmerman was a stalker and likely had his gun out the whole time, since this kid was afraid of him and ran. Trayvon was fighting for HIS LIFE not the other way around. It's bizarro world to believe that Zimmerman with his gun was afraid of a kid. Why, because he was a scary black kid? Wow.

[madashelltoo]

7. Can you imagine the rush Zimmerman felt

When Trayvon ran away from him. The wimpy, fat kid had frightened a tall, skinny black guy. Zimmerman was tripping on power. He had to stretch that high out a little longer. Hold him for the cops. That would have kept Zim awake for weeks filled with his new power. That damned Trayvon had to go and die and mess it all up. A he said Zim said battle would have fed that high for months, knowing he had the upper hand because all black teens are guilty of something.

[uponit7771]

9. +1

[Lugnut]

19. That makes sense to me.

He never identified himself as the neighborhood watch man to Trayvon. Trayvon had no idea who this guy with the gun was. I'd run too.

[lunatica]

10. If it was behind his hip then how did he get it if

he was laying on it and also had Trayvon's straddling him? Especially if he claims Trayvon was pummeling him. That would mean both Zimmerman's and Trayvon's weight were combined. Someone should try re-enacting that to show how Zimmerman was able to get the gun and have it perfectly placed in his hand so all he had to do was pull the trigger.

[uponit7771]

12. ..he had it out already...by Z's own account he had it on his back hip too.

[Bonduel]

35. By the way, I did this experiment with my son who is 14 years old

He put a pen in his waistband behind his back. I straddled him. He was able to get his hand behind his back and grab the pen almost every single time unless I used my hands to hold his down. Even when I put my knees on top of his arms he could get a hand free eventually and get his pen.

I don't think it would be difficult at all especially if you fear for your life assuming that is what happened.

[uppityperson]

43. So if Z had been sitting on TM, TM could've gotten his own gun?

[libodem]

45. Did you insist he scream for his life the whole time

While you bashed his head in? That's what Zimmerman would have us believe. Did he go over or under your leg?
A pen is quite a bit more slim than a hand gun.

[Spazito]

17. How did Trayvon keep smashing Zimmerman's head into the concrete and still...

have a free hand to reach for the gun, a gun that was in a holster, covered by his jacket and behind Zimmerman's hip which, according to Zimmerman's version, is what happened. Trayvon was able to, with one hand, continue to smash Zimmerman's head into the concrete, a head that had no hair to hold, a head that would have been wet and slippery due to the rain? Yeah, that believable....NOT.

[HockeyMom]

28. No hair

Did he grab him by the nose and smash his head? My first thought on that one.

[Spazito]

29. His nose was wet and bloody as well...

slippery. According to Zimmerman he smashed his head repeatedly (20 - 30 time) into the concrete. The injury to his nose does not support this theory, imo. The photo with him cleaned up at the police station shows little injury at all.

[HockeyMom]

30. As you said,

Trayvon would have needed to use both hands to grab Zimmerman's head and pound it. He could not have a free hand unless he let go.

[Spazito]

31. Exactly, there is no physical way Trayvon could have done what Zimmerman contends he did...

any way one looks at it unless Trayvon Martin had at least three arms.

[Bonduel]

37. Did Zimmerman say that the two happened at the exact same time?

I am just asking. People don't seem to look at some of these scenarios as is it at all possible. Could Martin have smashed his head against the concrete, tried to reach for the gun and then get shot. If that is possible and there is not witness to dispute it then you can't assume it didn't happen. I can't assume that it did either. Thus the reason that someone will find reasonable doubt.

[uppityperson]

44. Yes. And Z also said he was getting smothered by another of Trayvon the Octupus's hands

[Kingofalldems]

18. Zimmerman seems to be some sort of hero in the gun fancier

community. I wonder why?

[Duckwraps]

21. I believed in the Easter Bunny.

[Heywood J]

24. Zimmerman also said he had no money for bail. (NT)

[Nine]

25. Here's the part I find strange.

This is what Zimmerman said in the police interview:

When he (Martin) came up to me, he said, “You got a problem?” and I said no. And then I went to reach for my phone to find my phone to call 911 instead of non-emergency.

A person who carries a gun in his waistband for protection does not reach for his cell phone to call 911 when he thinks he's in danger. According to Zimmerman, Martin had already approached once, circling around his car while he was on the phone with the police dispatcher (something he neglected to mention to the dispatcher in real time for some reason) and then disappearing again. I presume that detail was meant to suggest that Martin was either stalking Zimmerman at that time or that Martin was trying to intimidate Zimmerman. I find it odd that Zimmerman would even get out of the car after that, especially to look at street signs that are, you know, designed to be seen from cars, even at night.

It seems odd that with all that warning, Zimmerman chose to reach for his phone instead of his gun when he felt in danger. I also find it odd that when they were on the ground, Martin would basically say, "I'm going to reach for your gun now and kill you with it," instead of simply, you know, reaching for Zimmerman's gun and killing him with it. Actually, I find it extremely hard to believe that Martin was prepared to kill this stranger who had never even spoken to him except to assure him that he didn't have a problem (all this according to Zimmerman's version of events). But I have been assured repeatedly by the Zimmerman defenders that teenage boys are completely irrational and unpredictable and will frequently engage in mortal combat just for shits and giggles.

[malaise]

33. Zimmerman is a pathological liar, a racist and a wanna be cop

his story is full of holes

[kiranon]

40. Also believe he had the gun out as he approached.

Getting the gun out while he was on the ground with Trayvon on top of him makes no sense.