"...when is enough enough?"

[babylonsister]

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Bernie has got it right. Too bad nobody's listening who could make a difference...n/t

[rwsanders]

21. What I don't understand is why the American people, many of them the same ones that Bernie...

is talking about won't listen.
If they'd wake up, they could make a difference. We could work together and clean house (or both houses as it were).

[awoke_in_2003]

87. They don't listen...

because they are programmed by a propaganda machine that would make Goebbels green with envy

[handmade34]

2. priceless... n/t

[Triana]

3. Bernie Sanders is awesome.

I know he's not a Dem but he is doing what Dems SHOULD be doing: pointing out the IMMORAL GREED at the root of everything wrong with America today. Loudly.

[NRaleighLiberal]

5. Bernie - awesome indeed!

[geckosfeet]

7. 110% - yes - he is doing what dems should be doing. But they aren't. What to do?

[Triana]

8. Elect more Dems like him - not corprat-owned & controlled

Obviously Bernie is not beholden to any big business interests - or very few.

[geckosfeet]

13. We have to clone two hundred Bernies then....

[malthaussen]

77. No can do. Bernie is morally opposed to cloning. n/t

[merrily]

54. There are no more Dems like him. He isn't a Dem.

He was a Democratic Socialist, before he changed to Indie.

If there were, we couldn't elect them because we don't have the money or the machine or a pocketful of media.

[DissidentVoice]

31. Today's Dems are, frankly, too scared to do that

Ever since the Reagan years and the bloody DLC, Democrats try to be as "Republican-lite" as possible.

I think that's why Bernie is an Independent/Socialist. The DLC machine would never accept him.

[A Simple Game]

56. Just the opposite, I don't think Bernie can accept the DLC machine, and rightly so. n/t

[DissidentVoice]

81. Point taken

Even though the DLC doesn't officially exist any more, its influence has poisoned the Democratic Party, perhaps forever.

[A Simple Game]

90. Yes it's name may be gone but the spirit still exists.

I was kidding around with my post. I am right, but you are equally correct also. It's one of those things that works equally well either way you look at it.

Ten more like Bernie could make the Senate Democrats start moving to the left.

[DissidentVoice]

91. It's a vicious circle though

To get 10 more like Bernie Sanders would be great.

However, the DLC poison has worked so far through the Democratic Party that there is no way most Democrats would support having 10 more independent Socialists like Bernie in the Senate.

[JDPriestly]

86. We could do it, but it would take a lot of focus and work.

The problem is that many of us are not focused on electing liberal politicians. Instead we are focused on an issue.

People who support the environment don't think about getting support for a candidate who also supports the environment. They think about joining movements that defend the environment but don't want to get involved in party politics.

Sorry, guys, party politics is where it is at.

Join your local Democratic club. And if there isn't one, start one. Let the top brass in the party in your state know that you want to pick the candidates. You don't have to be rude about it. And when you join, you may be surprised by the number of people who agree with you.

California is a blue state because we have a grassroots party. If you live in California and you claim to be a Democrat, you need more than anyone to join your local Democratic club. You can find that instead of just complaining, you will make a difference. In your Democratic club, you meet the candidates. That's a start. If the candidates are real people to you, people who shake your hand and ask for your support, then you can judge more accurately which ones you want to support, more accurately than you can from the media.

Join your local Democratic Club. Get active.

[NRaleighLiberal]

4. too much causes some sort of illness....it is corrupting.

I've seen it with some of my friends - they buy and buy and buy and it doesn't make them happy - and there is no magic threshold or number. But the damage that uncontrolled greed does is so clear to see everywhere.

[geckosfeet]

6. it is never enough for sociopaths and psychopaths...

Nice video embedded in the story in the post.

Original post about the piece


The article
New Study: The Wealthy are more Unethical

This might help explain why some people like Wal-Mart's Christy Walton can rake in $1.2 million a day in unearned income with stock dividends, while at the
same time, refusing to pay her employees a living wage in earned hourly income --- costing the taxpayers $6,000 per employee in government entitlements
(aka "wage subsidies&quot . It seems that some of these people just can't help themselves...they're mentally ill!

Bud Meyers: STUDY: 10% on Wall Street are Psychopaths - "Studies conducted by forensic psychologist Robert Hare indicate that about 1 percent of
the general population can be categorized as psychopathic, but the prevalence rate in the financial services industry is 10 percent."

New Study: The Wealthy are more Unethical

[7962]

32. I think stock dividends ARE taxable now

I think I read that recently, but I may be wrong. I know they were not in the past but I thought the rules changed. I'll look around

[geckosfeet]

52. At 15%. Make millions or billions and pay 15%. If you can't hide it.

[avaistheone1]

9. I don't understand why there are not more like Senator Sanders.

I understand Citizens United and all the money it takes to get in office, but how can so many lose their conscious, compassion and humanity when they start governing in Washington?

I certainly believe in good people. And I think there are more good people than bad. But so few of the powerful particularly of our elected reps are willing to speak the truth and stand up to power.

[Dustlawyer]

15. The reason there are not more like him is that the ones that are willing to run and have the talent

it takes to win want to stay. In order to stay they have to play ball with the Lobbyist or they will have an opponent with more money than God running against them next time. We allow legal bribery of our politicians and they are treated very well if they play ball. What we need to be doing is only focusing on COMPLETE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM (CCFR). Publicly funded elections are the only way to get our Representative Democracy back. Right now we have a shadow government that controls the politicians, media and the Courts! The Democrats are bought off same as the Republicans. It is all a play put on for us Dupes while they take our tax dollars and write the laws to suit themselves.
ANYONE WHO STILL BELIEVES WE HAVE A WORKING DEMOCRACY NEEDS TO TAKE A HARD LOOK AT WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!!!
Why are we going from Guns to Gay marriage to abortion instead of jobs, environment, Wall Street reform, clean energy..... Only social issues, no issues that will affect their bottom lines. The media work to make it all seem seamless and to distract us when one of their issues pops up in the public attention.

[avaistheone1]

25. All good points.

When I asked my very liberal recently retired congressional rep (with almost 40 years in his seat) about publicly funded elections he just laughed and that was the only response I received from him. So it looks like they are either not able or capable of reforming the system. It is up to us.

We need to get better informed and get our communities better informed. There are over 500 communities that have voted to overturn Citizens United. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017129416 So there is some hope there.

And it seems like publicly funded elections are making progress in some states, but not nearly fast enough --- with some courts and states challenging and repealing those efforts.

[Dustlawyer]

57. I wish I knew more about the internets to better spread this word, but it seems that I cannot

motivate very many people here at DU to spread the word. If I cannot motivate people here, I don't know what else to do. Most people still think that it is "too conspiracy theorist" for their taste. I handle high end mass tort cases against the fortune 100. Currently it involves a certain oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico that the firm I work for has been in continuous litigation since 2005. I have seen what big companies can do, things that would be too conspiracy theorist for most people! I have been to big fundraisers and heard what goes down. It is not a far leap to figure out that the politicians do what they are told to do. All our protections and many of our rights are under attack, or already gone, I know this to be true!
Someone really good could do a video and break it down for the masses. You just follow the money. Every industry knows they have to pay to play and now it's all legal! Liberals get caught up in each distraction to protest the individual policies that the Republicans get ginned up, while what they are doing is treating a symptom instead of going after the root cause.

[7962]

35. That is one reason I believe in doing something many here will probably not agree with....

...get RID of the income tax and get revenue from sales taxes, like most local govts do. Then lobbyists would have no tax breaks to ask for. They could still beg for grants and such, but most lobbying is for getting breaks. Look at all the lawyers these corporate types hire to get out of paying. My second reason is SO MANY people who never pay because they work cash businesses. I know a few A/C men, plumbers, mechanics, etc, who claim maybe half of what they actually make. We have too many not helping to pull the wagon who can afford to.
And then whenever mister bigshot wanted to buy a ferrari, he'd pay a shitload of tax on it.

But I dont think I want the "fairTax". I would want medical/food exemptions, etc.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

72. Agreed!

A national sales tax would get money from all groups that pay little or no income tax now.
Just think of the billions raked in by drug dealers alone, that now would be taxed when they by their fancy cars, bigs homes, etc..
I have talked about this before here. Comments ranged from unfair taxation, double taxation, to other outrageous arguments. It is not a popular scheme.
I see it as a very fair way to distribute the tax load.
If you want to buy it, you pay your taxes. It would be a way to shift the tax burden upward.
There would have to be exceptions for food and other necessities of life which would not be taxed, of course.
The more you spend, the more you pay in taxes, no loopholes!

[7962]

85. Whoo Hoo! I'm not alone!

Thanks for your post. You touch on what the main point should be: if you're rich you WILL pay MORE taxes. The rich are not going to stop buying stuff. In the past, when the "luxury tax" was enacted, many boat builders went under. But the USED boat business went through the roof. This would cover things like that as well. There are just so many making good money who pay little to no taxes.
Drug dealers do love to spend that money!

[cantbeserious]

10. Great Question - Thanks For Sharing

eom

[zeemike]

11. Greed is a jones.

As powerful as any drug, and like drug addiction it can never be satisfied....so there is never enough.

[rwsanders]

23. That to me is the true pathological "sense of entitlement"

If the right wants to use that phrase, we need some politicians on the left that will hang the term around their necks like an albatross.

[Enthusiast]

66. The privileged wealthy used the same argument

during the Irish potato famine, millions starved to death.

[SmittynMo]

14. There's no one on this planet

like Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson. I hope they get together and run in 2016. Maybe, maybe, something can be done then. Until then, the rich run this country. It's quite sickening.

[avaistheone1]

17. I think you should add Elizabeth Warren to your list.

[burnodo]

41. I think they'd all be shot before they got close to real power

nt

[AnotherMcIntosh]

16. I do not understand why Obama is not saying this?

When he is finished with his presidency, is he going to be one of the greedy few?

[SunSeeker]

22. Obama said he wants to work with kids after he's President.

He is not driven by greed, he could have made a lot of money at a blue chip law firm after graduating from Harvard Law with head of Harvard Law Review on his resume. Instead, he chose public service.

Obama has said similar things to this. Remember when he got excoriated for his statement to "Joe the Plumber" that it is better for everyone if we "spread the wealth"?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

24. Yea, well he said other things that turned out to be untrue. Perhaps you are unaware.

[7962]

36. Bada BOOM!

[SunSeeker]

62. I'm aware that you just said some things that were untrue. nt

[Janecita]

73. LOL!!!

Obama is part of the 1%, he kisses their asses, protects their investments and bails them out when they need it. It's a little late in the game to be so naïve. Obama has great speech writers and a lot of charisma, that's it!

[SunSeeker]

80. You are repeating a right wing lie on a Democratic discussion board.

Obama has great speech writers and a lot of charisma, that's it!

To say that after Obama ended the Iraq War, DADT, the pre-existing condition exclusion and saved hundreds of thousands of well-paying auto jobs, is ridiculous on its face.

If I wanted to read shit like that, I could peruse the troll droppings on Huffpo or Yahoo or wherever the hell it is you recently came from.

[Janecita]

83. A troll???

For your information, I voted twice for Obama. And I volunteered on the first campaign. I just don't agree blindly with everything he does and says because that would put me on the same category as the republicans that never said boo about Bush's horrible mistakes. Yes, I expected a lot of Obama, and as a raging liberal, I am dissapointed. I'm happy about some of the things he is done, but he is definitely far from what I thought he was going to be. Btw, dissent is a form of patriotism, get off your high horse and stop accusing people of shit they are not.

[SunSeeker]

84. I didn't say you were a troll, I said you were repeating a right wing lie.

If you are repeating it out of ignorance, that is even more pathetic. But you appear to acknowledge that he did some good things for the 1%:

"I'm happy about some of the things he is [sic] done..."

And yet in your prior post you stated,

Obama has great speech writers and a lot of charisma, that's it!

You don't even try to defend that statement. You can't. If you are stating something that you know is wrong, why are you doing it?

[DissidentVoice]

92. A right-wing lie...and there are many

Better examples of the "right-wing lie" would be:

1. The entire "birther" bullshit.
2. Sarah Palin and her "death panels."
3. Three hours a day from "El Rushbo."

I voted for Obama twice as well. To say that one is disappointed with him does not indicate someone dislikes him or fails to acknowledge what he has done. There's no way DADT, etc would have happened under GWB, McSame or Rmoney.

I support the President - not blindly or unconditionally, but I do support him.

That said, I am very disappointed with some things he has/has not done.

1. Gitmo remains open.
2. He caved to Max Baucus on the "public option" and did not push for single-payer...the ONLY thing that will cover EVERYONE.
3. All this NSA crap, continuing most of GWB's policies and renewing the Patriot Act.

None of those is remotely close to repeating "right-wing lies."

[SunSeeker]

93. I notice you don't address the statement I said was the rw lie. nt

[DissidentVoice]

94. Because it's not a lie...it's actually complimentary

President Obama is charismatic. He is obviously quite intelligent, well-spoken and someone I wouldn't want to face in a debate because he'd make me look like shit. It's refreshing to have someone so erudite as President after the "cowboyisms" of the previous President.

He is an expert on the Constitution, whereas the right-wing lie says he doesn't know/doesn't care about the Constitution.

He does have great speechwriters. ALL Presidents have speechwriters, including the "Great Communicator," Ronald Reagan.

None of that takes away from his accomplishments.

[SunSeeker]

95. "Obama has great speech writers and a lot of charisma, that's it!" is a lie, not a compliment.

It is NOT the same as saying "President Obama is charismatic." You are leaving off the "that's it!" part. That does take away from his accomplishments, and suggests all he does is read well from a script of speeches someone else wrote.

[DissidentVoice]

96. I don't believe the "that's it!" part anyway n/t

[SunSeeker]

97. Of course. That is what makes it a lie and a rw talking point. nt

[Auggie]

18. It's a game to them. It's about beating the system.

[LuvNewcastle]

19. People really shouldn't be allowed to accumulate a billion dollars.

Anyone who holds on to that much money while so many of his countrymen are living hand-to-mouth is just plain sick.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

20. On a related note...

[MrMickeysMom]

26. Well, there's one thing to say about only a FEW people doing what's right in Congress...

(and local level, which is another story for later)...

They (Bernie, Alan, Elizabeth, et al) can only be doing it before burning themselves out doing it.

It will not happen without people who are behind them getting mad as hell and not taking it anymore. This is a TRUE task!

[Laelth]

27. k&r for Bernie Sanders. n/t

-Laelth

[idwiyo]

28. K&R

[WillyT]

29. K & R !!!

[DissidentVoice]

30. Bernie is one of the only pollies I pay attention to any more n/t

[Coyotl]

33. Rec #100

[Jim9090]

34. I'll tell you

I often wonder the same thing. A nice roof over your head, a car that gets you where you need to go (or bus/train money depending!), some money in the bank for the unexpected problem that might arise. All of that makes total sense.

But billions? Multiple homes all over the place? Million dollar cars? Planes?

All while people who work for you scrape by. Honestly, I work in upper management and I see it and it sucks. I have forgone raises (I am not in six figures, everyone else at my level is) in order to get more money for those in my department. I don't get how some people I know can literally talk to some of the employees there like they care, at company parties make speeches about how we're all a big family, and then behind closed doors talk about them as worthless easily replaceable cogs.

It saps your soul it really does.

[babylonsister]

39. "It saps your soul"...man's inhumanity to man.

Welcome to DU!

[Jim9090]

44. Thanks!

While I will probably conflict with people here in terms of opinions on some things, when it comes to greed I think I'll fit right in. I'm all for innovation and making money, but I've found in my life that a job (particularly management) is more enjoyable when you do what you can to inspire those "beneath" you and encourage their growth. Also only really taking what you need...you have to have a line somewhere you draw where you say "OK, I'm comfortable now and am able to enjoy things I like, I'm good."

I have no interest in forming my own empire, I just want to be able to pay my mortgage, do my job, and enjoy some time with my wife and my dog here and there. Since I'm a pretty "simple" guy I don't need a whole lot to make that happen...but I suppose that's the point.

When did it get so out of control? sigh...

[babylonsister]

47. First off, I hope

you are legit, b/c that's the right attitude imo. Second, I hope you are young enough to change minds. Your mindset is needed.

It is out of control.

[Jim9090]

49. I am legit

but don't get to happy about it. I've been where I am now for fifteen years and haven't been able to change much. I remember being younger thinking one day I would take the company over at some point and change things, but I've come to realize that it doesn't work that way, or at least it didn't for me!

I'm 35 now, and if there was even one other person in my company at a higher level who felt the way I do, I'd have a shot. Came close once or twice in the past three years but now I'm really just worn out from the fight. Just maintaining status quo, the best I have been able to do lately is defend the folks I care about there from the BS above them.

I will probably move on at some point in the next year or two and see what else there is out there. I know some people who run companies that are really innovative not just in their technology, but in their approaches to their working environments and employees. Knowing that maybe I'll have a shot at joining a group of folks like that at some point keeps me going!

I will say however, that I have seen many young men and women come into my department, work there throughout college, and then move on. Most of them still come back to visit, even after years. That's a really nice feeling, seeing them grow up and become successful on their own, and knowing you might have played even the smallest part in it.

[babylonsister]

53. Check out Costco; the owner knows the value of his

employees. I know there are smaller scale employers.

I hope you move on and make a difference; you could make a big impact. No guts, no glory!

[SomethingFishy]

82. +1 Costco should be the model..

Limits on CEO and Exec pay and a decent wage for employees equals a place where people want to work. They do it right and people still manage to make money off of them.

[totodeinhere]

37. Bernie also has it right on his opposition to the Patriot Act and the

surveillance state. He is a national treasure.

[RainDog]

38. k&r n/t

[burnodo]

40. rich people aren't bound by morals

nt

[Zorra]

42. Yes. Everyone who has a heart cannot understand why. nt

[Lenomsky]

43. Never for the few ..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014532962

[Egalitarian Thug]

45. There's no such thing for this type of person. n/t

[smirkymonkey]

46. +10.000

[99Forever]

48. Bernie is a National Treasure.

Too bad he doesn't have Barack Obama's job. He'd be a WHOLE lot better at it.

[Amonester]

50. They never think of anyone's children other than theirs, nefew, nieces, and relatives of them.

And other than those unknown to them who may benefit from the charities they support.

The #1 priority is to increase their personal wealth by $XXXXXXXXXXXXXX and XX% each year.

Everything else is irrelevant to their beautiful minds.

[L0oniX]

59. ..and their children become victims of power and control until they play the game and inherit it all

[MrSlayer]

51. I think it IS the America people died to create.

It just is. All the rah rah jingoism is the bullshit they get people to kill themselves for but it's really been for the owners to have more wealth all along.

[merrily]

55. I only started to realize that relatively recently.

Got brainwashed early on about the founding period of the country and never got de-programmed.

But, I do think it gets worse as it goes along.

[Martin Eden]

58. The wealth will start trickling down pretty soon.

Just you wait.

And wait.


And wait.



And wait.




And wait.





And wait.

[chknltl]

60. Those who wait best are called peons which is pronounced pee-ons.

You can't make this stuff up.

[Martin Eden]

71. Corrupt CEOs get a golden parachute, while the peons get a golden shower

The right makes a lot of stuff up to get the pee-ons to vote against their own interests, but irony like that can't be contrived.

[Chaco Dundee]

61. I am not surprised

As long as the people who are in the worst way affected by todays politics still insist that Ronald Reagan was our greatest president,nothing will change .their beliefs are a result of undereducation wich ronald and his willing republican friends started and which came to fruition under georgie.try to educate one of the fellows is like pressing water out of a stone.by the way,we have taken so many hits on education,that getting good grades translates to getting dumber as we grow.

[cherokeeprogressive]

63. All it would take is a Constitutional Convention.

[Jamaal510]

64. They need to start a show called "Money Hoarders",

and include Limbaugh, the Koch Brothers, Adelson, Hannity, and the rest of the professional wingnut grifters. Watch as they scramble to see who can purchase the most yachts and the most private islands!

[dtom67]

65. at a certain point.....

It becomes less about Money and more about Power. The simple fact is that, in our System, People of Wealth and Power are using their Wealth and Power to preserve ( and whenever possible , increase ) their Wealth and Power. Part of maintaining Power involves Control. In our World, Control is maintained with Debt and Poverty.
Citizens United has made our Democracy vulnerable to this world view, and may well destroy it...

[Enthusiast]

67. Kicked and Recommended!

I love Bernie.

[hfojvt]

68. I have to worder as well though

why do people who make $150,000 a year often think that is not enough?

Because collectively, those people have more income than the billionaires.

[tclambert]

69. Some people get addicted to video games . . .

some to the game of making money. They don't really enjoy their wealth. The money no longer means anything real to them. It's just a means of keeping score. They live for the next deal, for scoring a few more points. A billionaire may stick you with the bill for lunch because it's 50 more points, and maybe he can use that 50 points to score a thousand more. Enough will never be enough. There's always the lure of setting a new personal high score.

[Fumesucker]

70. Because to amass that sort of money you have to be obsessed in the first place

And obsessions are seldom under our conscious control.

[KG]

74. yeah, it is the america people died to create. they were just propagandized to believe otherwise.

[nessa]

75. It's about power and control.

Money = power.

[HenryWallace]

76. Chesterton Quote

“Among the rich you will never find a really generous man even by accident. They may give their money away, but they will never give themselves away; they are egotistic, secretive, dry as old bones. To be smart enough to get all that money you must be dull enough to want it.”
― G.K. Chesterton

[BlancheSplanchnik]

78. goddammit. Yes.

kick. rec.

[malthaussen]

79. Schadenfreude is a more powerful motivator than Mr Sanders realizes.

One of the most illuminating things ever said to me was "What's the use of power if you can't use it against someone?" I rather think that a lot of people right here at DU would nod their heads in agreement.

-- Mal

[tblue37]

88. Robert Vaughan palyed the villain in the film

Superman III. The character was a multibillionaire. He told another character, who asked why he needed even more money when he was already the richest man in the world, "It is not enough that I win. Everyone else must lose."

There is one other point. I think that some people never feel that they have enough money to be truly secure.

I remember reading an interview with Barbara Bush after she and Poppy Bush had to vacate the White House after Clinton was elected. She told the interviewer that she panicked when she realized that they would now have to cover all their own postage! As rich as they were, she still feared that paying for her own postage stamps would send her to the poorhouse!

[yurbud]

89. I would like to see one of the richest people in America stand up and say...

"You can tax me all you want! I have the talent and creativity to make more money. If I can leave my kids enough that they can afford to do anything they want, but they can't afford to do nothing, I'll die a happy man."