For my fellow grammar/spelling fascists on DU.

[WilliamPitt]

[hobbit709]

1. OK

[roguevalley]

19. I taught for 27 years. Only if its immersed in conservative clabber do I care anymore. Mostly.

[liberal N proud]

2. As a grammer/spelling handycap, I do miss the spell check

And I have noticed many a thread that was simmpselled

[lastlib]

10. my speeling is guud, but my typping culd usse a litle wirk.....

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Excellent!

[Newsjock]

4. And this

[alterfurz]

9. commas save lives!

[Mira]

48. That's funny.

And so is your name.

[midnight]

49. That's a great example...

[Martin Eden]

60. Eats shoots and leaves

vs eats, shoots, and leaves

[ChazII]

71. My reply is a bit off topic

but that book is awesome and one that my students enjoyed.

[Uncle Joe]

26. That post needs music.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. Perfectly put, my dear Will!

[pintobean]

6. The first one

gives one the illusion that it's odorless.

[peace frog]

7. I prefer "stickler" to "fascist"

One may be strict about grammar and spelling without also being a radical authoritarian nationalist.

[rhett o rick]

43. touchy'

[Art_from_Ark]

52. Touchy?

or Touché?

[rhett o rick]

65. Dam Otto-correct. nm

[Lint Head]

8. Some times when I look I wonder if it's looking back.

[HopeHoops]

11. You like too get right at the to points of it, two.

[SidDithers]

12. Trolling is a art...nt

Sid

[Rex]

31. For some it is.

Others it is an strange fumbling over 7 or 8 posts before they get the boot. 7 Post Trolls I like to call them.

[sendero]

13. THAT...

..... is LOL funny!

[libodem]

14. My mom kept her proof reading gene for herself

I have an old wallet with her journalist credentials and press passes. It makes me proud that she worked as a magazine editor. I still can't spell or write very well.

[Speck Tater]

15. Shakespeare would think our English is atrocious.

Chaucer would have thought Shakespeare's English atrocious.

There are only two things that are certain about any language, including English:

1) It is always changing.
2) The older generation always thinks those changes are atrocious.

Simply put, grammar describes how people speak. When the way people speak no longer concurs with the written grammars then it is the written grammars that are at fault, not the speakers.

[tkmorris]

28. There is a vast difference between willfully stretching grammatical rules

and being too ignorant/apathetic to get it right in the first place.

[Speck Tater]

42. That's very true. And both of those are agents of change.

Language evolves as a result of ignorance and apathy as much as from deliberate and intelligent pushing at the limits. However, cleverly testing the limits is often well accepted by the older generation while ignorance and apathy are usually not considered acceptable. So when I say that the older generation is always complaining about the changes taking place in language it is precisely those changes due to ignorance and apathy to which I am referring.

Somewhere along the line somebody was too ignorant and apathetic to learn how to properly use the many noun case inflections of old Germanic, and as a consequence of that ignorance and apathy modern English no longer has to bother with things like the distinction between a-stem masculine accusative singular nouns vs. i-stem and u-stem accusative nouns (let alone the nominative, genitive, dative, ablative, instrumental, and locative case endings on nouns. And let's not even talk about noun gender!). It was that same lazy, apathetic bloke that left us with only one word for "the" instead of the German "der", "die", "das", "dem", "den", "des" (Or on the Romance side of PIE, the Spanish "el", "los" "la", "las", "lo&quot .

Curse that lazy, apathetic, ignorant fool who gave us a simpler, more streamlined language! Curse him to hell, I say! For, pardee, ye han ofte tyme herd telle how that a frere ravyshed was to helle.

[Neoma]

54. Best response ever.

[tavalon]

57. Irregardless

is a non-word that became a word during my lifetime.

[harmonicon]

68. That one causes me pain.

I quit a job because of "irregardless".

We had to watch a training video in which the president of the company not only said "irregardless", but it was subtitled as well!! Nowhere along the line in the production of a video which will be watched by tens of thousands (or more - I don't know) people working for a multi-billion dollar company did someone catch this and fix it.

I finished out the week of training, which I had to contractually do to get paid anything, and never went back.

[Speck Tater]

69. Imagine how your great grandparents felt when "slum", "smog", "suburb", and "gadget" were coined.

or when "to morrow" became "tomorrow", or "all right" became "alright", just as "a lot" is now becoming "alot". And what's with that non-word "Okay"? Who's bright idea was it to invent such an abomination? If my boss ever said "Okay", I'd quit my job in the blink of an eye. (Especially if he spelled it "O.K.&quot

It's horrible, I tell you. We should all go back to our Chaucerian roots.

[harmonicon]

73. You're purposefully missing the point. nt.

[tavalon]

76. Speck tater

was right in line with my answer to you. I love teasing people about grammar goofs as much as the next person, but the reality is the the language keeps evolving (or, it could be argued,devolving) so we are just looked at as oddities holding on to the past. OTOH, I really do think a comma can be man's best friend.

[Speck Tater]

77. If your point is that you don't like new words being coined, then I didn't miss it.

If your point is something other than that, then you didn't state it.

Oh, and I forgot to mention "motel" and "brunch" as very recent additions to the language.

[harmonicon]

81. I'm completely fine with new words being coined.

"Irregardless" is just stupid though. It just means "regardless." It's like Sarah Palin's "refudiate"; i.e., not a word, but just something that dumb-fucks say because they have the vocabulary of a trained bird and easily become confused when trying to put words together.

[Speck Tater]

87. I know what you mean. Like how "inflammable" just means "flammable".

What trained bird came up with THAT one?

Or "The house burned up." being the same as "The house burned down." Or what about "slim chance" = "fat chance"? It's madness, I tell you!

I think it's high time we went back to the drawing board and re-engineered English from scratch.

[harmonicon]

90. Well, you got that one backwards there.

Inflammable is the older word. It is of course derived from the word "inflame". How did "flammable" come about? I don't know, but I suspect it has something to do with stupidity.

Instead of going back to the drawing board, I think it would be better for people who would rather be lazy about language taking some time to look into the etymology of words instead of just throwing up their hands and saying "everything goes!"

[Speck Tater]

91. And with that I rest my case, because history shows that in fact...

"anything goes" is the only rule that's consistently followed.

So you see, I don't need to argue the point with you because in truth, you are already arguing the point with reality, and my guess is that reality will win the debate.

But this has been fun anyway. At least I hope you have enjoyed it as much as I have.

[harmonicon]

92. k thnx bai. nt.

[tavalon]

74. I hate it to, but us grammar purists have to understand

That we aren't speaking a dead language, like Latin, but rather a living one. I had to let irregardless go, but I will be damned if I let misunderestimate into the lexicon. Wouldn't be prudent.

[harmonicon]

82. It would not!!

Having a living language does not simply mean "anything goes" though.

i meen if eye strtd 2 rite lyke ths i think it wood b oh-kae 4 ewe 2 krekt mi on mi spelin ur gramer nd lak ov punktashun

I don't mind having to look up words in a dictionary. It's a pretty simple thing to do. If they're new words that aren't in a dictionary, I can do a google search and find out what they mean. I don't, however, want to have to translate from Stupid to English when I'm reading.

[tavalon]

83. I agree

But I'm afraid you will find irregardless in current dictionaries, regardless of how you and I feel about it.

[harmonicon]

84. I did.

This thread made me look it up in my little mac dictionary (which is incredibly handy - I have it in the tool bar and use it a lot - it's not extensive, but good enough for daily use) and it is there. However, the definition does just say that it means "regardless."

Just because words exist doesn't mean that we should use them when we could use more suitable words in their place.

[tavalon]

85. True

But irregardless is my favorite word to make the point about a living language, but when I'm not using it as a teaching tool, I use regardless. but if misunderestimate ever hits the dictionary, I'm gonna pitch a fit. A conniption, in fact.

[Speck Tater]

88. Define "more suitable".

Preferably in a way that doesn't fall back on personal preference as the only yardstick.

If you were writing an epic poem and needed to say "regardless", but also needed some extra syllables to make the meter come out, well then...

I guess that's why Poe used "To the tintinnabulation that so musically wells" instead of more suitable "To the tinkle that so musically wells "

[harmonicon]

89. Easy.

"Regardless" is already a word - a real word - not one sprung from the brains of moronic mouth-breathers who can't grasp what a fucking double-negative is, innit.

Say I'm a person reading something in English and I come across "irregardless". Well, my brain - which has come to learn the rules of English - now has to perform some kind of weird acrobatics about why a double-negative has been used to construct a word which means "regarding". Oh, wait!! That doesn't work, because the word is only supposed to mean "regardless"!! Well, shit then, I think the author probably would have been better to just use "regardless". Yeah, lets just fuck the rules about double-negatives. This isn't fucking Czech where having two negatives adds emphasis. It's English where one negative cancels another one out.

Your example then has nothing to do with this argument. I don't want to get into the finer points about the differences between the definitions and uses of "tintinnabulation" and "tinkle", but I can tell you that Poe probably knew that using "tinkleless" or "nontinkle" would not work.

[CTyankee]

86. I have always believed that there is ONLY dialect, when it comes to language.

And I say that as a tutor for Literacy Volunteers. I have seen again and again new immigrants to this country needing instruction in current English, that of the people, the idioms in particular, in order for them to survive and thrive in this country...

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. LOL

[Warren DeMontague]

17. Enough with the Santorum jokes!

Okay! Fecal Lube! We get it!

[MarianJack]

18. Bravo!

If I'm not sure of a spelling and I don't feel like getting the Dictionary (remember those?) I just use a different word.

K&R for the chuckle.

PEACE!

[WhoIsNumberNone]

20. Beautifully illustrated

[MADem]

21. Give that man a Pullet Surprise!

[tavalon]

56. Pullet Surprise!

DUZY!

[Dreamer Tatum]

22. I'd be much more forgiving if the errors weren't usually made

...when chiding other people for being stupid.

[kysrsoze]

23. You should have used a colon at the end of your thread title.

I am just stating the rule.

[WilliamPitt]

33. *bowing*

[IDemo]

24. My Grammar never spoke in such a fashion. n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

25. The panda eats shoots and leaves.

Or: He eats, shoots, and leaves.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

27. Those two don't necessarily have to contradict.

[lunatica]

29. That's excellent!

Lately I've had a few grammar nazis jump all over me for making the your/you're mistake. I do know the difference but mistakes happen when typing.

LOL!

[xtraxritical]

55. You'are your best friend, I hope. eom

[Yo_Mama]

30. I'd be happy to be one...

If my grammar and spelling were good enough to qualify me.

As it is, I just try to mitigate my own errors. Thank heaven and the site programmers for the "edit" function.

[WonderGrunion]

32. This one is for you Will

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101856269

[WilliamPitt]

34. Bees.

In my head.

[Generic Other]

35. Mangling my grammar for the LULZ

WWWPD?

[s-cubed]

36. Hey Will, you have bees in your head!

[WilliamPitt]

39. Bees.

In.

My.

Head.

[Land Shark]

37. The OP's grammar lesson is not helping me with public speaking, however! :)

Though a different rule -- avoiding contractions in public speaking -- might help rescue speakers from the dangers of homonyms like the one in the OP.

[Jakes Progress]

38. Or the difference between

knowing you're anal and knowing your ass.

Do you hyphenate anal-retentive.

Those who play with purity of language don't know the history of language.

Those who find deep meaning in a typing error need help.

[fascisthunter]

40. LOL! Right On!

[pnwmom]

41. Is that a grammar mistake? Or a mistake in diction?

Or spelling? Or punctuation?

Never mind. They're all important.

[dixiegrrrrl]

45. OR...is it "cat keys"?

[IMG][/IMG]

[madrchsod]

44. i miss the old check spelling and ...

i have basically failed every english course since 8th grade. i have 90 some college credits but still have`t passed 103.

so it is obvious that i have no room to criticize anyone`s writing

[Kablooie]

46. Now if I could only get my iPad to stop fooling around with my writing.

If you want to see what I'm talking about check out:

http://damnyouautocorrect.com/

Example:

[ThoughtCriminal]

47. And when you make a typo

The errorists win.

[October]

72. lol! That was perfect. :) /nt

[dooner]

50. Is "anal retentive" hyphenated? n/t

[csziggy]

51. And here is an avatar for grammar/spelling fascists

[Prometheus Bound]

53. I could never figure out why people put a capital letter after a colon.

[tclambert]

58. Yer funny.

[Martin Eden]

59. My pet peeve is "loose" when it should be "lose"

Too (not "to&quot many people are losing (not "loosing&quot the ability to distinguish between "lose" (rhymes with booze) and "loose" rhymes with juice).

[lonestarnot]

64. I mix them up quite often, so ___ me. Snort snot.

[Martin Eden]

79. Yeah, ____ you!

It's people like you that are turning people like me into grammar/spelling fascists.

[lonestarnot]

95. Touche'.

[bigmonkey]

75. I actually attribute that one to the advent of spell check.

I'm in my 50s, and I don't ever remember seeing that error before the middle 90s, when spell check became so widespread. I think, since it passes spell check, that many people essentially taught themselves it was correct usage. Of course, that's a misunderstanding.

[Earth_First]

61. UNTIE, UNTIE! n/t

[malthaussen]

62. What has always puzzled me...

... is the fact that people who prefer and promote correct usage are considered fascists or nazis, which would seem to indicate that they are considered extremists. There is a moral there somewhere, if I could just work out what it is.

I don't object to the odd neologism, as after all English is a living language. I find it odd that outright mistakes are defended as simply the normal variations to be expected as a language matures. Obviously by that argument, there is no reason to observe any rules whatsoever.

My own pet peeve comes from the world of sports. When, for example, a batsman makes two hits in four attempts, he is said to have gone "two for four." Whoever coined that phrase clearly did not understand what the different prepositions mean: it ought to be "two in four," or "four for two." But English is a living language, and this usage has become so common that I doubt whether even trained journalistic professionals realize that they are butchering the language when they use it.

And don't get me started on "Between you and I." According to a friend of mine who lives in the South, that usage is so common there that even the English teachers don't know it's wrong.

-- Mal

[tomp]

63. language unites us....

...until it doesn't.

[allan01]

67. re: For my fellow grammar/spelling fascists on DU. View profile

[whistler162]

70. That's Grammarian!

ain't u educatid enuf' to kno that?

[4whomthebelletrolls]

78. Hmm...I am wondering about your lead...

Shouldn't it have ended with a colon?

[Viking12]

80. ...

[ibegurpard]

93. thank you!

it's like nails on a chalkboard...

[ibegurpard]

94. Any World of Warcraft players here?

what level is your rouge?