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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIn the US, Support Grows for Whistle Blower Snowden as Anger Increases over Massive Surveillance
America is finally showing signs of waking up after more than a decade of looking more like the Land of the Cowardly than the Home of the Brave.
This despite the Corporate Media's slanted coverage of the latest leaks from the latest Whistle Blower regarding the destruction of the 4th Amendment rights of the American people, policies which began under Bush and as has been revealed, continued and expanded under President Obama.
Americans say Snowden isnt a traitor
A majority view him as a whistle-blower in every subgrouppolitical party, gender, income, education, and ageexcept for African -American voters, among whom 43% call him a traitor and 42% a whistle-blower.
Researchers also spotted a massive swing in public opinion when it comes to how the public feels about spying programs in relation to civil liberties. Now, 45% of voters say the government goes way too far restricting civil liberties in regard to its anti-terrorism efforts. Thats a big switch from 2010 when 63% felt the government didnt go far enough in its efforts to protect the country from terrorists.
A 'massive swing' since just two years ago. That's good news, but it's difficult not to be angry that it took so long because that is what made it possible for all these abuses to take place.
Voters Support Snowden
The opinions about Snowden were fairly independent of political party association, education level or household income. Only one demographic factor did show a significant effect; that was age, with support for Snowden declining with the increasing age of the respondents.
Take that Dick Cheney, George Bush, Ari Fleischer, John Boehner, and Peter King who once again are on the wrong side of history and a few of them still on the wrong of the prison walls. Some day maybe justice will be done.
The only solution is for the International Community to come together, as they have in the past after a crisis that affects humanity as a whole, and begin the process of ending these abuses against Civil Liberties everywhere.
iemitsu
(3,888 posts)I have been hoping that the international community would pressure us to stop acting with such disregard for others and the world. And you think its the only thing we can do. I hope it happens. The bi-polar world was better than the single super-power world. The monopoly needs to be broken.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I don't know if there are enough ethical people in the world today to put together a set of International laws and/or an International Bill of Rights making these abuses illegal everywhere. It won't work if just one country does it, it has to be everyone. Who could propose it? Maybe no one from the more powerful nations, being they all appear to be involved.
Latin American nations, the Alliance of Latin American nations seem the most likely to do so and maybe it is advantageous to all the others to agree, to protect their own secrets since all of them are threatened by the abuses now.
iemitsu
(3,888 posts)in the world.
Turned out that was all Cold War propaganda.
We can't trust the US or any small coalition of countries to determine how countries should behave internationally. All countries need to be included, in such a discussion, and the concerns of all must be addressed. People's needs must come before profit or the "needs" of a corporation. Clean environmental policy must come before profit too and all must have access to clean water and food.
The problems associated with capitalism need to be addressed too. We can't have an economic system that depends on the exploitation of human and natural resources and at the same time respect people or the environment. Likewise, we can't depend on a system that requires constant growth in a limited world.
That ride was fun, but we have to get off.
I hope that people can get together and take control of the out-of-control power elites that currently run our world.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)told the world, would take place all over the world. I don't know, maybe you have been sleeping?
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)So let me just say that I support whatever the NSA thinks is necessary to protect us, even if it means capturing my phone calls and emails and social media posts. I'm behind them all the way!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)use to fight terror .... and anything they do I'm sure they're doing for National Security reasons.
CountAllVotes
(20,878 posts)Almost afraid to post a "+1" -- is someone recording/watching us?
*eek:
as well just for the hell of it all ...
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)...about freedom of the press the second Snowden landed in the country?!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)other way to get the information to the people.
lamp_shade
(14,841 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)struggle4progress
(118,342 posts)Overall, majorities answer YES to Question 42: Do you support or oppose the federal government program in which all phone calls are scanned to see if any calls are going to a phone number linked to terrorism?
Overall, majorities answer YES to Question 43: Do you think this program is necessary to keep Americans safe or not?
Overall, majorities answer YES to Question 44. Do you think this program is too much intrusion into Americans' personal privacy or not?
So there's some very strange center ground right now where people support scanning all phone calls to see if any calls are going to a phone number linked to terrorism, believe the program is necessary to keep Americans safe, and think the program is too much intrusion into Americans' personal privacy
The psychology there might be somewhat weird and counter-intuitive. One guess is that we're looking at people stuck there in the middle because they're full of anxieties: if so, ramping up their anxieties might not move them much but might simply harden their positions. So perhaps question is not be to scare more people to move into the "too much intrusion" column but how to reassure more people enough to move them out of the "support scanning all phone calls to keep Americans safe" column
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)isn't clear. If someone asked me 'what should they do if they have the number of a terrorist and need to know who he is calling, would scanning all phone numbers to try to find that out be okay'? I might answer yes, IF I didn't really think about it.
Because that question makes no sense. IF they HAVE a terrorist's number, there is no possible reason to scan every number in the country. All they need to do is to get a legitimate warrant from a regular court then go get HIS phone records and they will know where all of his calls are calling.
The question is based on the explanation given by Obama, which made no sense whatsoever and still doesn't.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Sure they can get a warrant and see who that terrorist calls but that is not nearly the end. Then you have to follow where those numbers go and determine which have common threads with others you have tracked. All of this could need to be done quickly if there is a lot of activity and getting warrants to follow all of that would be very time consuming just in paper work alone.
Also dont forget many of these calls have international origins so getting a warrant for that information would be impossible most likely in many of the countries.
This is not joe drug dealer they are trying to track these are international terrorist rings.
Many of these phones will be burners with no info on them to tie them to people.
I dont much like the idea of them storing all numbers dialed myself. I can however wrap my head around what they are trying to accomplish with this and spying on you isnt it.
The amount of data all by itself almost ensures you remain the same anonymous person you have always been unless you talk to people who talk to terrorists. It is like you are the needle in the hay stack its just too much data to do anything with unless you have specific targets to try to sift out.
That is not to say that using that stored data they cant find better ways of categorizing it to ferret out patterns and people likely will. I would be surprised if they could do it today.
I certainly think the laws need tweaking but technology is changing the world we live in. There is very little that is private anymore. Hell the grocery store likely has much more data on you than the government gets from this.
This is longer than I meant it to be so I will just say again this is much more complex than just getting a warrant for one phone line and seeing who it calls. It is also such a large amount of data that you would have to be looking for very specific things to really do much of anything with. As long as those specifics are confined by a court review process I have a very hard time seeing it as a problem.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)tax dollars, to one day, maybe, who knows when, try to find a needle in a giant haystack doesn't inspire much confidence in our security apparatus.
Second the people who actually DO have something to hide, know HOW to hide it. So let's hope they know that or while they are busy collecting all this data, terrorists are going along with their business completely uninhibited.
And third, there is absolutely no reason not to use the tried and true methods that do not invade the privacy of everyone in the world, where Private Corps, now in charge of our security for some inexplicable reason other than profit, have zero concerns for anything except money, which is really what all this is about.
People can search for reasons to justify it, but there really are none. I am hoping that this will finally get the International Community, all of whom are affected, to start taking steps to reign in these rogue practices and make them illegal Internationally.
As for terror, we can end that by ending our terrorizing of countries in order to steal their resources which we've been doing now for decades.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)its not going anywhere no matter what we do. There will always be epeople that dont agree with the system ion place that resort to terror to make their point.
The international community isnt going to do squat cause they are all doing the same thing in one form or another to their citizens.If you think the rest of the world is somehow more noble you are kidding yourself. Sure they will make noise and stomp heir feet cause its fun to poke a stick in the eye of the US. But nothing will change. Nor should it.
Using ""tried and true methods" wont work in a world of digital communication. There needs to be new methods developed and thats what they are doing.
You need to get used to the fact that everything you do is being tracked now be it by the grocery store or the government. The internet has changed our world completely. Some of those changes are troubling to be sure but it also brings with it a whole lot of amazing things that improve our lives and the lives of the world
The Arab spring would not have been possible without the internet for example.
I do think its important that we take a close look at our laws regarding how the government is allowed to use this new data but pretending we will be going back to the old ways is kidding yourself. The internet changed the world and continues to change it. You cant just stop and get off.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)And a majority of the American people now agree with me, not to mention an even larger majority around the globe.
The telephone, 'changed our world' and it too was abused until people finally got tired of the abuses and laws were put in place to punish abusers.
That's exactly why they WILL do something, because no one has anything to gain now from all this spying, only the assault on Human Rights which even if governments have no respect for, their people do, as we are seeing all over the world.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)The internet is not going away and it records everything you do on it including where you buy your gas and get your cookies.
No one has anything to gain from all the spying? Now i know you are just pulling my leg. Spying isnt going away either nor should it. It is important we know when Irans nuclear programs come online. Thats spying! and we definitely benefit from that information.
I dont think you really understand the internet and how it works or the fact that it records everything and does not forget. I dont think you really understand that the same communication lines that carry internet data also carries our phone data. This stuff is not going away.
I agree that like phone communications there needs to be laws regarding the governments use of all of this new data but pretending the UN is going to force us to disconnect from the trunk is silly. This is something we need to address ourselves in our country and when you are ready to get to work doing that instead of pretending this Snowden thief is some sort of hero. I will be ready to get on board.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Just kidding.
Anyhoo...what is the weekly smear?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)has always been the way to ward off those attempts to distract from the main problems we are facing.
The weekly smear is probably being cooked up in some Private Contractor's undisclosed location right now. 'Snowden hates women'? Or the Assange smear, which the CIA thought was a good one 'get him embroiled in a sex scandal'. Snowden needs to avoid strange women now like the plague.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)hootinholler
(26,449 posts)byeya
(2,842 posts)are tiring of being played for chumps.
Speaking of chumps...
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)in that department. But these polls show that when the American people have access to some facts, and if you read the articles, it is young people who are now driving the results and they get their news from various sources, the results of polls reflect a more educated view of things.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)Supported by circular links and I was pleasantly surprised.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)The story, the whole story, and nothing but the story is Snowden. There is no illegal spying. At least that's what the apologists tell us. The defenders of the faith insist that there is nothing wrong, and that is why we have to keep it a secret.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Why is there no one on that list that is actually in the position to change what's going on?
Sorry Sabrina, it ain't just "them evil Repubs" behind this.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I chose those particular names, but thought it was obvious, now reading it back I can see it is not.
[b]They have all come out recently in support of Obama.
Sorry, it wasn't meant to imply anything other than their public statements in support of this Democratic President's policies.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Seemed a bit out of character for you.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)for pointing that out!
William769
(55,147 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Despite our faults and shortcomings, We the People still know right from wrong. Which, according to the NSA last year, is more than most people in positions of authority.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)an imminent attack on the US? And knowing this to be a fact backed up by documentation, what kind of Government chooses to ignore it and just 'move forward'?
Richard Clarke was right. John O'Neill was right. And for some reason there are people roaming the internet attempting to suppress this information. The question is 'why'?
byeya
(2,842 posts)refuse to see counterproductive policies he's either continued or put into place.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)to suddenly defend what they once so openly opposed. We have record of people's positions on this issues. So it's sad beyond belief to see them do such a complete turnaround on important issues like this. UNLESS it was always 'all about politics' to them and they never really cared about the issues at all.
20score
(4,769 posts)eventually get there.
(Don't mean to sound harsh, but after the Iraq War, torture, spying, etc., right from wrong should be easier to discern.)
KoKo
(84,711 posts)is going on...that's not in their best interests.
They see news about Wall Street UP! But, they have little invested in it. They see protests in their states and they wondery WHY?
They see their living standards barely holding on while people rant about Stock Market and they are Pitched Investments every where they go...while they have little enough to try to feed their families.
At some point things don't add up. Then the "questions" come.
"WHY?"
Liberal_Dog
(11,075 posts)This is encouraging.