What is the best evidence that George Zimmerman is racist...?

[Pelican]

Open ended question as it is bandied about as fact quite frequently...

Any statements that use the words "believe" or "I think" or "probably" should be rephrased to reflect actual evidence. Preferably that given during the trial but can also be something you heard in the media that the jury was not aware of.

[Nevernose]

1. His own family says he is

Plus most if his many 311 calls were about black people

[Marrah_G]

2. He knew two things about Martin, that he was young and black

In his mind that made him a criminal, and asshole, a punk, a suspect......

That is racism.

[Ninga]

3. actually a third thing...not only was he a young black male, he was walking....that's a no-no to all

racists...

[WCLinolVir]

4. What does it matter?? He didn't shoot someone as a race killing.

He shot someone because he has a problem with reality and perception.

[Pelican]

5. It matters to some...

... because they believe it was the primary reason that Martin is dead.

IOW, if he had been white or hispanic or eskimo then he would still be alive and I'm curious where people draw that perception from.

Does it come from a fact that they read or is it just one big circle j@#$ of reinforcement?

[WCLinolVir]

7. Obviously it matters to you since you started this thread. Own it.

[NoOneMan]

14. "they believe it was the primary reason that Martin is dead"

It was the primary reason Zimmerman was suspicious of a 17 year old teen ("asshole"/"fuckn punk&quot walking back from a store at 7:00 PM.

But the reason Martin is dead is that Zimmerman killed him.

[displacedtexan]

12. Reality and Perception are colored by our biases.

George's reality was filled with fucking punks and assholes who always get away. His perception of TM was that he was a fucking punk asshole who had to be a criminal.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

13. +1,000,000!!!

[FarPoint]

56. That said...

this question comes to mind...once the verbal 1:1 occurred... Would Zimmerman of shot "his suspect "if he was to discover then that the teen was white?

Would he of even followed the teen if he realized Martin was white when he saw him walking near his SUV, before Martin went into the complex ?

My senses tell me NO.............

[WCLinolVir]

76. I agree that Zimmerman was, IMHO, biased, but the post asking for best evidence

is baiting. I think race was a factor, but being as asshole with mental problems trumps. His past behavior shows this.

[greyl]

53. Distinction without a difference. nt

[LuvNewcastle]

6. He's a wannabe cop.

[PsychoBunny]

20. Is that the best evidence that he's a racist

... to you? Really? Anyone that wants to be a cop is racist?

OK, got it.

[LuvNewcastle]

35. I'm not talking about cops here, I'm talking about wannabes.

It might not look like much on the surface, but they have a certain psychological profile that predicts other traits. Of course it isn't always accurate that wannabe cops have a certain trait such as racism, but it's true often enough that investigators use a profile to make assessments of a person's character and arrive at often very accurate conclusions about them. Wannabe cops very often have psychological issues, such as a strong desire to have authority and power, that make them commit certain serious crimes. Maybe it isn't the best evidence, but it's a very strong indicator.

[oldhippie]

38. Wow.

Just wow! Broad brush much?

[Quantess]

65. Is this based on a verifiable study or are you just making stuff up?

[LuvNewcastle]

66. I'm sure there have been studies that were

just about that particular phenomenon, but I can't find anything online about them. They discuss the subject in criminal psychology books and it's written about a lot in true crime novels, but it takes some serious digging to find sources for it online.

Let me explain again, I'm not talking here about real cops or people who are going through the proper channels to do the work to become cops, I'm talking about people who have somewhat of an obsession with law enforcement and fantasize about being cops, but are either unwilling to do the work required to be a cop or they're unable to become one because they've been rejected for some reason.

I've found a couple of sources online where cops discuss law enforcement issues, and they talk about it. It's real. The first link is a discussion about exactly what a 'wannabe cop' is. The second is a list of some of the things they do. I wish I had some scholarly proof to show you that it's an actual psychological trait, but I can't right now. There is evidence to be found, however, that describes them and the things they do.

http://policelink.monster.com/topics/70643-what-makes-someone-a-wannabe-cop/posts

http://forums.officer.com/t63649/

[Quixote1818]

8. Here you go

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/18/co-worker-zimmerman-bullied-me-with-racist-taunts/

[Quixote1818]

9. And here you go again

http://hinterlandgazette.com/2012/05/george-zimmerman-called-racist-2005-antimexican-myspace-rant.html

[slaveringpalavering]

15. Here you go

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/24/justice/florida-teen-shooting

[Quixote1818]

41. Sounded more like he was trying to sound like he would be a better officer

than the others in the force since that is what he wanted to do. He's a fucking phony hypocrite.

[demosincebirth]

10. Maybe they should give him a test to reaffirm his racism

[Pathwalker]

11. ALL 66 911 calls he made were about young black males

in HIS neighborhood. 66 phone calls. ALL were about black males in HIS hood.

[Pelican]

16. That is interesting and not something I had heard...

Do you have a link?

[slaveringpalavering]

18. I have one.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html

[Pathwalker]

19. No. It's been out there for some time, though.

My eyesight is too bad to go googling for you, sorry.

[Pelican]

21. The link above doesn't agree...

Out of 46 calls maybe 1/3 of them had "BM" in them. The rest were traffic related or race non specified...

Part of the reason I started this thread was to compare what people had "heard" and what actually is.

[Pathwalker]

24. The, read the other links including the one where he

taunted a co-worker with racist language. also, you might want to check his arrest record.

[Pelican]

25. I saw that one...

Interesting if true...

Making an Achmed the dead terrorist joke probably doesn't qualify him for the KKK but at least its documented evidence....

[stranger81]

29. While maybe only a third of the calls reference black males,

all of the remaining calls with the exception of one (involving white and Hispanic subjects) were either not about individual suspects, or were about persons in vehicles whose race may not have been observable. The fact that in all but one call about suspicious persons he identifies the suspects as black males is compelling evidence of racism, IMHO. He even reports a "7 to 9 year old" black male, approximately 4 feet tall, as suspicious.

What a tool.

[uponit7771]

32. wow ~ the 7yr old!!!

[Cha]

67. OMG. It sounds like he was a fucking disaster waiting

to happen. knowing what we know now.

[uponit7771]

61. +1

[BainsBane]

17. His father

and his father raised him. That and the fact he shot a young African American male who was walking home from the store.

[Pelican]

23. Sins of the father...

Got it... How progressive of you...

[BainsBane]

27. He raised him

Obviously he was exposed to racist ideas. One doesn't have to be a member of the KKK to think a random black person is a criminal. Everyone is imbued with those messages. Certainly someone with a father like that is going to be exposed to all kinds of racist ideas.

Your own response the other day to an article on the NRA and Martin's death was to say "that will teach them not to burglar people's homes." I of course don't expect to hear anything progressive from you.

[kiva]

39. If everyone with racist fathers

was a racist, everyone in the world would be a racist...fortunately, that's not the case.

[TBF]

22. I dunno - that he shot an unarmed black kid walking down the street? nt

[JoePhilly]

26. What crime did Zimmerman suspect that Martin committed?

Its about 7pm. Zimmerman sees Martin and decides that he is "the suspect" (refers to him as such) and calls 9/11 and then starts following this "suspect". He continues to refer to Martin as "the suspect" after killling him.

What was the crime Zimmerman believed Martin had committed?

If you see a teenager that you do not recognize walking through your neighborhood, do you immediately think they are the suspect in a crime, a crime that you don't know about ... call 9/11, and then start following them?

Maybe he thought Martin stole the hoodie.

[Igel]

28. That one's easy.

There had been a string of burglaries. The robbers weren't being caught. They kept getting away, it would seem.

It's the reason that there was a neighborhood watch group formed in the division. GZ was involved in forming it and was "elected" by whatever group to some position in NW.

A house was robbed a few weeks before the Trayvon shooting.

Two black males were seen outside the house shortly before the robbery. When the police claimed to have arrested one of the robbers, they asked those who reported the two black males to ID him, they said he was one of them. GZ was one of the witnesses.

Don't know if he was released or not. Don't know if there was a second robber.

TM wasn't just walking through the neighborhood. In GZ's mind, he was walking slowly through the neighborhood and looking at the houses. GZ may be a bit of a racist and an irritating wannabe-cop, but he's consistent in his delusions and has no trouble saying what they are.

[stranger81]

30. Detective Serino testified on the stand that there had not been any string of burglaries

at the complex -- that Z might have thought there were, but that was not in fact the case.

The specific burglary you're referencing was months, not weeks, before the shooting.

And the neighborhood group that GZ was a part of consisted of exactly one person -- himself.

[JoePhilly]

36. Your first sentence provides Zimmerman's motive for confronting Martin.

There had been a string of burglaries. The robbers weren't being caught. They kept getting away, it would seem.

Zimmerman was making sure that the suspect would not get away this time.

And Zimmerman's delusions led to Martin's death, making Zimmerman more than just an irritating wannabe-cop.

And that's why he should be found guilty of manslaughter.

[treestar]

31. That he assumed a teen walking along was a burglar or whatever

If he can prove he thought this of a proportionate number of white teens, maybe he can get a hearing on being race neutral.

[korak]

33. There Is None.

That he is a "real" racist. He has some very common human instincts, however.

Except for those who are slavering to enjoy a really good "Running of the
Racist". (Kazakh/Borat style)

(I have been saving that phrasing and I am really proud of it and you will not destroy my happiness. No, no, no!)

Seriously, I am struggling to understand that attitude I have characterized.
I invite sincere persons to help me. I strive to keep my mind open. It's not easy.

[The Magistrate]

34. The Corpse of Mr. Martin, Sir...

"By their fruits ye shall know them."

[Pelican]

37. Was expecting this one as well...

... by that logic anyone who kills a person of a race other than their own is a racist.

[The Magistrate]

40. You Just Keep Telling Yourself That, Sir

It will amuse the rest of us, and keep you too busy to get into rel mischief elsewhere....

"The pretense of not knowing what everyone actually knows has come to dominate discussions of politics and race."

[Pelican]

42. How is that different than what you wrote?

Use your words....

[The Magistrate]

44. If, Sir, You Want To Convince People You Are Thoughtless And Foolish, That Is Your Business....

I will simply acknowledge you are doing a first rate job of it, and leave you to carry on at your own pace.

[Pelican]

46. Should have been more clear...Madam

Use the right words to express a coherent idea that adds value to the conversation and doesn't evade....

[vaberella]

70. Acually she was quite clear.

You however appear obtuse. The excerpt presented, from a biblical passage clearly speaks on actions. And Zimmerman's many actions or acts of racism; that can also be called microaggressions, as he may not identify his actions as racist.

Examples: comments in front of co-workers. His many reports and phonecalls to dispatch about what he deemed to be suspicious, young Black men. Profiling Martin. Following him despite suggestion by dispatch and warning by neighborhood guide. Then having a confrontation with said unarmed victim. His comments of frustration to dispatch and cops who took his deposition where he talks about "punks assholes" always get away. Which i am inclined to believe means Black men AND boys based on his past calls.

All this is clearly summarized, And eloquently so in the quote by the magistrate.

[Major Nikon]

55. You make a great point

It's not as if he stalked a black teen for no good reason, called 911 on a black teen for no good reason, confronted a black teen for no good reason, and killed a black teen for no good reason.

All he did was kill a person who just so happened to be black, yes?

[vaberella]

69. I would have believed someone who expected something, would know its meaning.

However, your response suggests that you do not know its meaning. Which.is actually quite clear...even for the unfamiliar.

[etherealtruth]

43. I am inclined to believe ....

If the first thoughts you have when you see a black man walking is that he is a criminal ... the odds are you are a racist.

If you decide to follow the black man walking (because you think he's a criminal) ... the odds have become even greater that you are a racist.

If a black man walking prompts you to call the police ... and utter something about "punks getting away" .... YOU ARE A RACIST!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

48. Thank you!! +1,000,000!!!

[Cha]

68. Yeah. Z has shown himself to be the "best evidence that he's a racist"..

by his actions and words.

[korak]

45. I was born in 1945...

Last edited Fri Jul 12, 2013, 06:44 PM - Edit history (1)

I grew up in northern rural Louisiana. Deep, deep cotton south. I tend to doubt if most of y'all have any appreciation of what real racism is!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

47. If you are white, then you don't either!!

[korak]

71. Oh, well. It's like that, eh.

I've read some of your other posts. Discussion would be pointless.......

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

73. Sure would. So welcome to Ignore.

[6000eliot]

49. Um, the fact that he stalked and murdered a Black teenager?

[TorchTheWitch]

50. his lunatic friend Frank Taffe that is openly racist

People who aren't racist don't have good friends that are.

[Raine]

57. That Taffe is one of the most repulsive people I've

ever seen, only a racist would have a BFF like Taffe.

[Apophis]

51. Go back and listen to his 911 calls.

You'll learn something. Maybe.

[MADem]

52. He killed a black teenager returning to his home from the store with candy. nt

[BellaKos]

54. Answer

His mother. What most Americans don't know is that there is a thriving class system in South America, which is where she is from. The fact that she is married to a magistrate means that she is well-educated and from a family of means who consider themselves to be of the upper class in her country. She was raised to believe that she and her class are superior not only to blacks, but also to all others who are not "of her class."
You know, "those" people.
In addition to being raised as a racist, there are other psychological factors. For instance, George's brother is far more successful than he is. He's better looking, more outgoing, older, and has been able to complete his education and hold down a job, unlike George who is a failure at everything he has tried in life. Given his mother's background, I imagine that she has berated and criticized him because he wasn't as successful as his father or even his brother.
So ... the only "success" and positive response Z has ever had was parading himself around the neighborhood being a busybody, calling the police repeatedly ... and, of course, carrying his gun. Only in those circumstances could Z "be a man."

But I agree with the prosecutor: Z decided at some point during the incident that he wasn't gonna' let the effing punk get away this time.
Furthermore, I believe that he had calculated beforehand that if he happened to shoot a "punk" one night, he would have an automatic out by pleading self-defense. A plea that he had articulated in his mind ahead of time based on the knowledge he acquired in his criminal justice class. This explains why his rendition of the event as told to the police seems plausible at first glance and also why he could come up with it so soon afterward.
That alone tells you about the man. Many people in law enforcement are upset and even physically sickened after shooting another human being for the first time. He not only didn't seem to be upset, but also he seemed to have a an intact rationale immediately. Odd?

The debate over this issue is the result of the confusion that the defense team has put forth based on Z's story alone. And Z is a liar.

[NoOneMan]

58. 2 clear signs you are a racist

1) You stalk and kill a person whose only "suspicious" visual attribute is their race
2) You defend someone who did #1

[mwrguy]

59. He stalked and murdered a child for being black.

Sounds kinda racist to me.

[Pelican]

60. You don't see the circular logic in that statement?

He's racist because he stalked...

He stalked because he is a racist...

[etherealtruth]

72. From this thread and your responses ....

.... one might come away thinking that the only way YOU would determine racism is by self admission or affiliation with a racist group (KKK, Aryan Brotherhood, skin heads, etc). Hoping this is incorrect, if one discounts racists acts as proof of racism, how do you determine whether a person is racist?

[Hugabear]

74. He had a black friend

Remember that one black college instructor who waved to George from the stand? My guess is he's the one black friend.

[pipi_k]

75. Hah!

That's probably it right there...

I mean, we all know that real "racists" have black friends, whereas the "non-racists" don't...

Or, at least, not any black friends they're comfortable mentioning.

Because if they admit they have black friends, they must be just as racist as the people they accuse of being "racist" just because they say they have black friends.

IOW, if someone accuses you of being a racist and you say you have black friends (or, in my case, black cousins I interact with on Facebook because they don't live near me), that means you are definitely a racist.

I guess that makes sense to them somehow...