American traitor Edward Snowden has no way out

[michigandem58]

Despite three offers of asylum to date, American traitor Edward Snowden has no way out. That's what Snowden called a small cadre of ostensible human rights activists to complain about today. He claims that he has the right to keep the long arm of the law from reaching him, because he's special. Apparently, he believes that sovereign countries do not have the right to decide who can and cannot fly over their airspace...

This is something we and many others have wondered. Yes, he's been granted asylum in Venezuela and other countries, but how does he get there without crossing the airspace of the United States or a US ally? He admits that he can't, at least not in short order. So he's requesting temporary asylum in Russia (what human and civil rights hero wouldn't want asylum in Stalin's homeland?), until he can figure out how to get to Latin America (I hear he's considering braving it on foot)...

http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2013/07/no-way-out.html

[msongs]

1. it's not snowden who is spying on americans and trashing our values across the planet nt

[Octafish]

13. What's it called when the traitors run the government?

"Corruption in public office is treason," is how Adlai Stevenson, Jr. called a different set of circumstances, way back when.

[Ichingcarpenter]

40. I noticed something from that state department exchange

They called him a thief or a criminal. If they called him a traitor that opens up article 14 and they know that.



“This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations,” the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states.

In addition, the American Convention on Human Rights provides for the right to seek asylum in foreign territory if “he is being pursued for political offenses or related common crimes.”

Snowden makes it clear that he believes he is being pursued for political offenses, and that what he has done is true to the spirit and letter of international law. In his speech to human rights representatives


If the Snowden haters here want to follow the party line they must no longer call him a traitor whereas that is a political statement which is not what the administration wants.













John Kerry representing Vietnamese Veterans Against the War at a protest in Washington, D.C., April 20-21, 1971 (Photo: Library of Congress, LC-U9-24273)






?w=620

Snowden at human rights Meeting. conference.










Recent State Department briefing.


QUESTION: You don’t think that he should have a forum? Has he – he’s forfeited his right to freedom of speech as well?


MS. PSAKI: Well, Matt, Mr. Snowden – : Our concern here is that he’s been provided this opportunity to speak in a propaganda platform

[Laelth]

53. Fear not.

If the Snowden haters here want to follow the party line they must no longer call him a traitor whereas that is a political statement which is not what the administration wants.

I am sure they'll get the memo soon.

Nice post, btw.

-Laelth

[villager]

51. " The administration we have to keep pathetically apologizing for," I think...

n/t

[SciFiRK]

21. Snowden is a traitor!

Anyone with any sense knew the Patriot Act gave the Govt "permission" to spy on us. I think they've been doing it in secret even before that. But this was disclosed a while ago. However, shining light on the domestic stuff might have been brave, but exposing information concerning foreign countries is unforgivable. Including running to our top two "fr enemies" China and Russia.

[cali]

2. the peoples view, my ass. More like one small minded, nasty little person's view.

fuck that asswipe.

[tblue]

12. Cali, I think you might want to clarify

I could interpret your post in more than one way. I think I know where you stand, based on other posts of yours (we tend to think alike). But I can't tell who you're calling an asswipe.

[cali]

18. the self-important creep who writes that awful blog

is who I'm calling an asswipe. Honestly, calling it 'the peoples view"? Blecch.

[MineralMan]

27. I'm unfamiliar with that blogger.

Can you fill in some of the background for us? There are so many blogs and bloggers that I don't have time to look at them closely unless they become prominent, like Greenwald has.

So, If you know this blogger and his history, please fill us in.

[flamingdem]

30. It's deaniac's blog from Kos

Now he goes by a new name, they don't let the comments get littered with bashing over there so some DUers no like

[MineralMan]

33. Oh, OK.

More anonymous blogging to ignore, then. It's wearying, and such stuff gets quoted far too often on DU. I'd prefer some homegrown analysis here, frankly, rather than constant links to such blogs.

Just my opinion.

[99th_Monkey]

32. tick! tock! tick! tock!

Are those crickets I hear?

[MineralMan]

36. Could be. I was serious, though.

DU is constantly full of quoted articles from anonymous blogs. It's wearisome, really. Without knowing anything about the blogger and his or her level of competence and background, I'm just not interested.

Greenwald, at least, is a real, identifiable person. I can go find all sorts of information about him, just as I can reporters from all sorts of publications. Anonymous bloggers, not so much.

That's why I have no political blog. I don't want to add one more to the morass that already exists.

[99th_Monkey]

38. Yo!

I agree

[MineralMan]

41. We probably agree more often than you think.

We also contend with each other often. It's DU, after all.

[99th_Monkey]

44. That's why I keep coming back. :-) ~nt

[noamnety]

34. Aw, that's not fair.

They seem very level headed, professional and mature to me.

http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2005/02/some-people-are-just-such-nasty.html

Furthermore, it seems like they are on the same side of the issue as you, firmly opposing wiretapping by the feds:
"Dear Sen. Feinstein, I am writing you both as a constituent and as a concerned American weary of expansion of governmental power that trample on the Constitutional liberties of the American people. I am writing to urge you to use your influence as a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee to block any legislation that could retroactively grant immunity to America's largest telecommunications companies for their cooperation in illegal wiretapping of Americans, and/or grants to the President the power of "basket or blanket warrants" that would require anything less than the 4th Amendment standard of probable cause in its issuance for every American it targets. It is easy to expand the government's power because of a threat to our security, Senator. It is difficult and yet far more necessary to vigorously defend our liberties precisely at the moment such expansions are tempting. Our bill of rights were written not during peacetime, but during wartime, at a time when America did truly face an existential threat. I urge you to take the path of our founders and expand, not contract, the rights and liberties of the land of the free." http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2007/10/letter-to-feinstein-spies-lies-and-fisa.html

Or at least they held those beliefs very strongly when Bush was in office.

[tblue]

46. Touché.

So I thought. Hope you're having a nice summer weekend.

[MineralMan]

24. Yes, that blog is the product of an individual, Spandan Chakrabarti.

So is Greenwald's. So are most blogs. It's a matter of reading, understanding, and agreeing or disagreeing. This is the first time I've read anything by this particular blogger, so I've formed no opinion of him yet. I've read many things by Greenwald, and do have an opinion of him, though. If I read more of Spandan Chakrabarti's writings, which is doubtful, I'm sure I'll form an opinion of him, too.

[treestar]

31. lol attacking the messenger

Ed has no right to asylum. He's not being persecuted for his political opinion. The US simply wants to prosecute him for violation of the law.

[99th_Monkey]

35. Don't you mean, "prosecute him for exposing US Gov't lies to American public"?

AKA blowing the whistle on "Mr. Transparency" <-- while on campaign trail, running for POTUS.

[tblue]

47. Weren't we supposed to be

the world's best ever shining example of democracy? A person shouldn't need asylum from the USA!!!!!!! Am I right or have I been deluded?

[99th_Monkey]

48. Last time I checked, that's how I read the US Constitution's meaning. Yes. Exactly.

The US Constitution was not written in blood by our founding fathers to be taken so lightly
by so many US citizens, apparently willing to blithely ignore their own government's criminal
violations of same.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

3. I can't help but think

The timing of the Snowden thing seems almost orchestrated. As if someone is deliberately (again) trying to embarrass the Administration.....

[flamingdem]

4. It's a full symphony of anti-Americanism at this point

with Greenwald and Assange conducting the orchestra.

[99Forever]

56. Uber-patriotism...

... the refuge of scoundrels and murdering tyrants throughout history, the world over.

[Stargazer09]

6. That is definitely possible

I would not be surprised.

[tblue]

7. Everything isn't a reflection on Obama

I don't see it that way at all. Why do you say that?

[MjolnirTime]

9. That's the entire purpose. It is obvious to all except the superfans.

And those who know support the cause anyway.

They don't like Barack Obama.

[woo me with science]

14. I can't help but marvel

at the breadth and depth of the smear campaign against Snowden, how rapidly it was mobilized, and how broad in scope and minutely targeted it is across the internet.

Nations and global corporations that build surveillance infrastructures also build propaganda infrastructures.

[JaneyVee]

22. You should see how rapidly mobilized the smear campaign against the

Obama administration was. Day one Sean Hannity was playing the theme from the Omen.

[woo me with science]

26. The government is spying on us.

All the smears and distractions you throw out do not change this central, outrageous fact.

The government of the United States of America is engaging in mass surveillance against its own people.

The smear/distraction machine is relentless, but it is ineffective.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

37. But why did Snowy come forth at this time?

It's not as though this stuff just started....

[woo me with science]

43. I don't give a shit when it happens.

Other whistleblowers tried in the past and were summarily squelched. This time the whistleblower learned from history and did not rely on official channels. Thank goodness for that.

Red versus Blue is a scam and a distraction. The two corporate parties agree on this spying and are complicit.

It needed to happen.

[JaneyVee]

42. Of course it is. It has been for a very long time and most likely will continue to do so

for a very long time. Yes, the fed gov collects metadata via autonomous machines then gets warrants for anyone deemed suspicious of wanting to harm the United States.

[woo me with science]

45. They have no right to metadata, and they are collecting a hell of a lot more than metadata.

They are sweeping up everything and can access content when they want to. And, no. After-the-fact, secret kangaroo court warrants to access the information that they have ALREADY SWEPT UP and STORED in violation of the Constitution do not make it acceptable.

It is an outrage. It violates the letter AND the spirit of the Constitution. It is a surveillance architecture with capabilities far beyond those of any totalitarian government in history.

[snappyturtle]

65. Thank you....I was formulating an answer...dumb me hadn't scrolled down yet to

read yours and imho you did it perfectly. What the poster you responded to said is the exact opposite of the way (order) it's supposed to be done. Personally, I fear more what our gov't can do to us than a foreign terrorist. To me, these folks are traitors to the Constitution. We are more of less ordered to protect the Constitution from enemies foreign OR domestic. What part of that is unclear? I just want to

[Progressive dog]

25. Nah, they just pick the stuff that hasn't been debunked

in the last few weeks and recycle it.

[Laelth]

54. If Snowden and Greenwald wanted to hurt Obama or the Democratic Party ...

... they could have released all this stuff during the election season last year, no?

To the contrary, I think these leaks are coming out at a time precisely designed to minimize the damage to Obama and to the Democratic Party.

-Laelth

[randome]

5. Didn't he miss Venezuela's deadline?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. The UN disagrees.

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=151991

UN human rights chief Navi Pillay has commented on the case of former US intelligence contractor Edward Snowden, saying it showed the need to protect people who uncovered abuses.

Pillay called on all countries to protect the rights of those who uncover abuses and stressed the need to respect the right for people to seek asylum.

“National legal systems must ensure that there are adequate avenues for individuals disclosing violations of human rights to express their concern without fear of reprisals," said Pillay.

"Snowden's case has shown the need to protect persons disclosing information on matters that have implications for human rights, as well as the importance of ensuring respect for the right to privacy,” she added.

[tblue]

15. Aha!

A voice of sanity. Thanks. Why does everything morph to "How dare you attack Obama!"? Who is talking about Obama?

[polichick]

50. Excellent. I think we need UN election observers...

throughout the country too - the U.S. just ain't so "exceptional" these days.

[Laelth]

55. We do, in fact.

President Carter, who helps those who monitor these things, is sharply critical of our elections. We have some of the least secure and most corrupt elections in the world.

(As many of us here know all too well).

-Laelth

[polichick]

62. I know we've had UN observers check things out...

and I read some comments about them being surprised - but we haven't had to answer to the UN regarding this, right? Meaning, UN observers haven't had any power over what's happening.

I so agree with Pres. Carter about this - how can we claim to be a democracy when we have such election corruption?

[idwiyo]

59. I am glad they did. Whistleblowers MUST be protected.

[snappyturtle]

63. +1000! Thank you. nt

[GeorgeGist]

10. Authoritarian view.

[woo me with science]

19. +1

Nations that build surveillance infrastructures also build propaganda infrastructures.

[frazzled]

11. Well, for five years at least.

He'll first have to get Russian asylum and, after five years, renounce his American citizenship and be eligible to get Russian citizenship. Then he could travel anywhere he wants with a Russian passport.

And that is what I think he is trying to do. In five years, no one is going to give a good god damn about Edward Snowden (except the Feds, of course, who will still have a warrant), which is fine with me. Ваше здоровье!

[michigandem58]

16. Enjoy your five years in the homeland of Stalin, Edward

Fitting.

[flamingdem]

23. He won't be able to utter a peep about human rights in Russia

Or to the Gulag with him.

[michigandem58]

28. Oh, the irony!

[BOG PERSON]

49. stalin was not a russian n/t

[Douglas Carpenter]

17. wonderful article! it takes a lot of courage to stand up for the surveillance state!!

In these days when people are faulting and criticizing authority - mocking the established order - smart mouthing and back talking our leaders - we need a powerful surveillance network that can monitor and control - We need voices like this author who will not take any lip from those who threaten established power and would deny our government their basic right to closely watch us and monitor all our communications and activities.

[Laelth]

57. Love the irony. Thanks. n/t

-Laelth

[Waiting For Everyman]

20. Lol! the return of the idiot blogger.

I'll tell you what I see, idiot blogger. Snowden already has the Surveillance State checkmated. His information will continue to come out no matter what, and if they martyr him (either by killing him, or by imprisoning), they will have a major dustup on their hands. All the US can do from this point on is more of same... look more and more stupid and guilty as time goes on.

[99th_Monkey]

29. A-hum. Speaking of "sovereign countries"

So you think these "sovereign countries" would have -- ON THEIR OWN
WITHOUT US THREATS & EXTORTION -- refused the President of Bolivia's
plane to fly in their airspace?



http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/07/03/bolivian-presidents-plane-grounded-on-snowden-fears/

[SidDithers]

39. DU rec...

love The People's View.



Sid

[Laelth]

52. Wow! What an interesting collection of comments following that blog entry!

Who are those people posting on a "progressive" blog?



-Laelth

[RC]

66. Really.

DU is losing sight of its Democratic, Center and Left of Center roots.
Do they think that because they voted for Obama over Romney, they are now Democrats? I have a tighter opinion of what being a Democrat means. Much tighter.

[Union Scribe]

58. more blog spam. nt

[reusrename]

60. Stalin wasn't a Russian.

That's like saying that America is the homeland of Columbus.

It doesn't make any sense, does it?

[Major Hogwash]

61. Well, there is one way out.

But, I doubt that Snowden will turn himself in.

[struggle4progress]

64. It would be great if we could stop using OTT language like "traitor"

There's no evidence that I've seen suggesting Snowden is a "traitor"

There's a lot of evidence that he's a self-righteous libertarian ideologue who, despite being quite computer literate, has a shallow understanding of international politics and a childish "Lone Ranger" concept of political action

He wanted the Washington Post to help him establish his bona-fides with a foreign embassy? Really? What does that suggest?

He's threatening to release material he says will bring down the government if they prosecute him? Really? Does he really imagine that helps his case?

I think he may be a sincere idealist. And some of his claims might even prove to be correct. Unfortunately, the most likely bottom line seems to be that he's a complete moron