Why weren't the Martins represented by their own lawyer? Is there some rule that the lawyer

[HiPointDem]

had to be that schmuck prosecutor?

[LittleBlue]

1. He represents the state

not the victim's family. It's the state that brings charges. Trayvon's family's lawyers represent them civilly and for other legal reasons.

[JI7]

2. i think in a civil case they can pick their own lawyer, but this was a state case

so it's whoever works for the state. i actually didn't have a problem with the prosecutors that much. i think they got lucky with a racist and/or stupid jury.

[NoPasaran]

3. It's the way things work in a criminal case

The Martins were not parties in this action, the state was.

[HiPointDem]

4. how convenient. the lawyer sucked. so badly you'd think it was planned.

[Jenoch]

7. How convenient?

Do you mean like how convenient we have a U.S. Constitution?

[HiPointDem]

8. go away

[Jenoch]

9. I am on record on these threads

as saying Zimmerman was wrong in his actions and should never have been carrying a gun. Yet, you seem to wish to throw out the U.S. Constitution and you wish ME to go away?

[HiPointDem]

16. go the hell away

[HiPointDem]

40. your (sic) a joke too.

[Matariki]

23. That would explain Zimmerman & his family's smugness perhaps

dad being a former judge, it could have happened. It's sickening. I'm so ashamed of our country sometimes.

[onenote]

24. If the family brings a civil suit and loses

will you argue that their attorney also threw the case?

[Matariki]

25. Right. Defend this travesty of justice.

This blatant racism. Have at it.

[onenote]

26. I'm not defending it

I am suggesting that those who contend the prosecutors "threw" the case are wrong about that.

[Avalux]

28. The state prosecutors didn't have much to work with, unfortunately.

The way the law is written puts the burden of proof squarely on them. There were serious questions regarding how the evidence was collected and how Martin's body was handled, and the medical examiner was horrible. The police department, in my opinion, did not act appropriately when dealing with Zimmerman that night, and he did not have a medical examination.

It was an uphill battle, with the only other person who could refute Zimmerman's account, dead.

[hopemountain]

35. protecting the state of florida & sanford le

the prosecutor was so passive one could call it "conflict of interest"

[TorchTheWitch]

5. they did have their own lawyer

Benjamin Crump. However, this case was the State vs. Zimmerman, therefore the state gets to use their own prosecutor. Crump is just their personal attorney.

No doubt in my mind anymore that Bernie threw this case on purpose. That's why he was appointed, and that was the deal. There is no acceptable reason whatsoever for how incompetent he was especially because he's NOT an incompetent prosecutor. He pissed me off royally throughout the trial for doing such a horrendous job he might as well have been paid by the defense. I couldn't figure out what the hell was wrong with him through the whole thing. Now I know.

[HiPointDem]

6. "he's NOT an incompetent prosecutor." -- have you seen him in trials before? are you from

florida?

does the family's attorney get to consult with the prosecutor & contribute to the case?

it's just inconceivable to me that they couldn't have gotten a manslaughter conviction.

[TorchTheWitch]

10. no, I'm not from Florida

Yes, he has a long and impressive career. You can look it up.

The personal attorneys are to advise their clients. They have nothing to do with the actual case. It isn't their case. They're just personal attorneys of their clients. The prosecutor works for the state. They have no reason to consult with the family's personal attorney and wouldn't. Prosecutors only work for the state, not the victim and not the victim's family. They are even known to plea down without even notifying the victim much less getting their input. That's one thing I never thought was fair about our justice system - there is no one to represent the victims who have any pull whatsoever.

Our legal system is very much skewed toward protecting defendants with no protection whatsoever for victims. I never thought that was the least bit fair.

[HiPointDem]

11. Your feeling that he threw the case is based on his being a highly competent lawyer in other

cases then?

Dang, I was hoping you had some inside knowledge, because he sure didn't seem very competent here.

are you a lawyer? i was wondering if mr incompetent has put some foot wrong that could result in a mistrial, appeal, something.

it just feels wrong.

[woolldog]

15. The two prosecutors have a lot of

experience with murder trials. I suspect they were the very best in the states attorneys office. However I agree with you that they did a horrible job. If you don't really believe in the case, if it doesn't mean much to you, then I guess it doesn't mean much to have all the experience in the world

[TorchTheWitch]

37. I never thought about that

I'm sure Bernie is more than competent enough to make sure he never did put a foot wrong. Since I see no plausible reason for Bernie to have fucked up so badly other than on purpose then this is what the state wanted, and they'll make damn sure nothing about it is ever spoken of again at the state level.

The only possible thing I can imagine is the federal level, but I don't see that happening. Even hate crimes far more blatant than this one have been passed over. The only possible way I can see a federal case is if the country makes as big of a stink about it as they did in Florida. We'll see I guess.

No, I'm not an attorney. I was a paralegal for a lot of years, and I've always been an avid crime trial watcher.

[GiaGiovanni]

13. You really believe he threw the case? Why would he do that?

Why sign on to prosecute the case if you didn't intend to try it in good faith?

[TorchTheWitch]

18. politics

There was something very hinky about how this case was treated from the outset. Florida wants their SYG law to be protected as is with all it's obvious faults. Therefore, everyone in the government from the top down was interested in making sure this never became a case in the first place. And were it not for the public outcry there would have been no trial. Everyone covered everyone's ass so their would be a trial with a well respected prosecutor that for no rational reason whatsoever bombs the job so badly he might as well have been working for the defense. Even all the amateur attorneys I've seen fresh off the bar with their first case don't fuck up like he did. I've never ever ever seen incompetence like he displayed throughout the whole trial, and for an experienced attorney with a long and distinguished career there's just no excuse whatsoever. Even if he never even saw the case until the first day he still could have winged it with help from his first and second chair and done a far better job. There is no explanation whatsoever to have ignored absolutely blatant and ongoing times he should have been objecting (so much so that I had to imagine all three of the prosecutors weren't even in the room because surely if he fell asleep the other two would have bashed his noodle to get him on the ball or object themselves). His cross was so stunningly horrible many times I was screaming at the computer "WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU!"

And example of that: O'Mara is crossing Serino going on and on and on about medical crap and swallowing blood concerning Zimmerman's nose, and not a PEEP out of Bernie. He objected to none of it even though Serino is not a medical expert and should never have been allowed to ask those questions. And what was Bernie's re-cross? All he said was something like "If I told you it was raining outside right now would you believe me?" He says something like "not necessarily" and all Bernie said was "So that would be just speculation, right?" What. The. Fuck. Bernie just allowed O'Mara to give a plausible yet false reason as to why Zimmerman might have had a reason to be in fear of his life by choking on his blood, Bernie never objected, and when he got to re-cross instead of clearing that up that absurd little song and dance about raining outside is all he comes up with??? I swear I nearly threw my monitor out the window with that one. I think that's when it first dawned on me that he might be actually fucking up the case as hard as he could on purpose though I couldn't imagine why.

There is just no other logical reason for any attorney with record like de la Rionda's to fuck a case up so badly that you would think he'd never passed the bar nor even gone to law school. Hell, plenty of laypersons right here could constantly pick out obvious things they never even touched on, and HE can't figure that out. Nonsense. There is just no other explanation than that he did it on purpose.

[GiaGiovanni]

22. So you think the NRA had undue influence?

Or the governor's office?

[TorchTheWitch]

27. both

It was the NRA that wanted all the pro-gun laws. They have a phenomenal amount of money, and in exchange for buying a seat in government for a politician that politician puts through the laws that the NRA wants. Quid pro quo. Mutual backscratching. All big corporations and big interest groups do this. It's how our government works from the bottom to the top. It used to be called bribery and at least the politicians tried to hide it. Now it's called lobbying and the politicians don't care who knows about it.

[GiaGiovanni]

32. It's like you're describing a completely rotted tree

The whole thing needs to come down.

[TorchTheWitch]

33. our entire government from local up through federal IS a completely rotted tree

It cannot be saved through voting since it is the SYSTEM that is the very problem.

[hopemountain]

36. thank you for this post

i thought it was just crabbiness & age that made the trial unbearable from the start. too much theatre.

[GiaGiovanni]

12. Benjamin Crump is representing the family, but it was the state that filed charges

against Zimmerman, and the state prosecutor must be the one to argue the case.

[Nevernose]

14. The Martin family were not the victims in this case

And therefore the Martin family were not represented in the criminal trial seeking justice for Trayvon's murder.

He's dead, killed by a sick racist paranoid fuck. Trayvon Martin is the victim, and is therefore everybody's victim.

It is not up to his family to seek justice. We, the People, seek justice on his behalf. When they say, "The State calls to the stand..." they're not talking about Trayvon's family, they're talking about you and me. We are the People; we are the State.

Look: I'm an unpatriotic asshole who thinks this country sucks, what we stand for sucks, and that patriotism is for suckers. I'm one step away from communist revolution. But this is one of the few things America actually gets right.

[HiPointDem]

17. they *were* victims. they would have been better off with their own lawyer than the half-assed

prosecutor they got.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

19. It's a criminal case...

In a criminal case the prosecution is ALWAYS the state. This case was The State Of FL vs George Zimmerman. NOT The Martin Family vs George Zimmerman (which would have been a CIVIL not a CRIMINAL case).
So, to reiterate: The Martin family was NOT represented in this case, nor should they have been in a criminal trial. If they want to bring up a civil suit against Zimmerman, then their lawyer will represent them. Hope this helps!

[ProdigalJunkMail]

20. the concept that individuals don't press criminal charges

is hard for some... they want the family of the dead person to be able to bring charges. glad it doesn't work that way, but that is what some people want...

sP

[cali]

38. I'm kinda gobsmacked that you don't know the most basic things here

no crime victim has their personal lawyer prosecute a case. The crime is against the state. The state decides if there is a crime and introduces the charges and prosecutes the case. This is true in all jurisdictions all of the time. If Bill Gates was murdered, the state would be the one deciding on and bringing charges, not the Gates' lawyers.

[HiPointDem]

39. i said they would have been better off with their own lawyer. whatever the law says, the crime

was against trayvon martin, not 'the state'.

and they got a half-assed prosecution from 'the state'.

[MineralMan]

21. Criminal cases are prosecuted by the government,

not the families. It is that way everywhere in the USA. The crime is defined by law.

[1-Old-Man]

29. Because no one named Martin was on trial.

Jesus, is there absolutely no understanding of our legal system here.

[TheKentuckian]

30. This is not how the system works anywhere in the country and what would be the point?

That only those with wealth or able to generate support due to publicity should be entitled to justice?

You are trying to desperately scramble to remake the judicial system around this one case.

[rustydog]

31. ou don't know the difference between civil and criminal law?