My thoughts on the verdict

[nadinbrzezinski]

Yup, the prosecution sucked...and all that. Failed to "connect the dots". But I would like to speak of a more meta level.

Here we are in 2013 sitting at a case that should have remained local, where the prosecution, IMHO proved manslaughter, with a set of laws that make it extremely difficult to even prove manslaughter. Why? Stand your ground forces the prosecution to prove self defense, when it used to be the burden of the defense team to prove self defense...nor can you have the defendant on the stand.

We are also faced with a situation where ll racial elements were kept off the case.

Given all this...I can't blame the jury.

Given they avoided Zims eyes was telling...they probably think he was guilty of something, but not under the instructions given.

So a local tragedy will now move to the Federal level...because we live in a pretty racist society where these stand your ground laws make it hard to convict people like Zimmerman.

So a local tragedy now will go, rightfully so, to the federal level. And quite frankly...I hope this leads to the end of these kinds of laws.

Oh and yes...it is open season on minorities now.

[GiaGiovanni]

1. Hey Nadin! I didn't understand why the racial aspects were kept out of the trial

Might that cause a problem for any potential civil rights case?

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Because the judge said such

Judges have that authority...in my mind that was an error in judgement since it was part of it.

This "shit" will come up in the federal case I suspect, different rules

[Jackpine Radical]

2. Yeah. I agree.

It is an evil law and the jury was constrained to decide within the provisions of that very bad law.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. I read it...they had no choice

[GiaGiovanni]

5. That means the next step is to mobilize against this law

and in a big way.

[SoCalMusicLover]

7. Yeah That Usually Works

Not. The system is fucked. Time to accept it.

[GiaGiovanni]

8. Uh, no. If you give up, you get nothing at all.

You have to fight. There's no choice now.

[SoCalMusicLover]

11. I Wish I Could Believe You

But I'm 47 now, and I realize it's all a g big fucking game and joke.

Lived through 8 years of Dickhead as "prez," and was told things would be different. In return I got Obama, which was GB Lite. Waiting in the wings is Hilary, who will be EXACTLY more of the same.

Oh, and I'm sure that Give 'Em Hell Harry is going to stand up and fight now against the repubs. He said he would. Said he's finally had enough.

Charlie Brown, meet Lucy. Go ahead, kick that football. Give it one more shot.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Change is not going to come from elections

That will never ever do it.

We need to massively take to the streets...that is where change happens. Ballot box...you are correct, Lucy and Charlie Brown

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. The system is as fucked as it has been in the past

Others were able to fight the issues of their age...

[AndyA]

6. I also think Zimmerman's previous documented anger issues should have been revealed to the jury

Beating up a girlfriend, and a cop...a 17-year old kid probably looked like short work to Zimmerman.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Absolutely

The pattern was there.

All I can hope for is that Zimmerman actually learns from this and finds a way to deal with his anger issues...not counting on it.

But there were things not brought that should

[SoCalMusicLover]

13. You'll Never Hear From Him Again

Except of course for the book deal, and the possible talk show circuit. But I think he's not going to get caught up in the latter. A big payday for a book is a possibility though.

I don't expect him to pull and OJ, and do something dumb. He's smart enough to realize he got away with a BIG one here, and the chances of him doing so again are not that good.

When you win big in the lottery, you don't necessarily feel the need to go buy more tickets. He'll be a good boy from now on.

[mysuzuki2]

23. He won't get much of a payday from it though - his lawyers will get most of it.

He'll have his 15 minutes on the RW talk shows and then he'll fade into obscurity. Five years from now hell be working somewhere for $9/hr.

[SoCalMusicLover]

24. Who Cares

I don't care if he's making $2/hr. He deserves to be in jail 5 years from now, earning cigarettes for cleaning the prison toilets.

[mysuzuki2]

26. I don't disagree at all.

But since he is not going to jail I will take what comfort I can from the fact that he is and will remain a pathetic loser.

[SoCalMusicLover]

27. I Still Feel That Way About Shrub

Unfortunately it doesn't help when I realize all the damage he did.

It will be less easy to tell the damage done by this case, but certainly, there has been irreparable damage done.

I wish I were not a pessimist, but I am, and I hate when assholes don't get what they deserve.

[mysuzuki2]

29. Sometimes I wish there were an afterlife where people like that would get what they deserve.

[SoCalMusicLover]

32. People Like GW, Cheney, Rove or GZ Know There Ain't An Afterlife

These people pretend that religion is important, but they know full well that their legacy and what impact their actions had, are all that matters.

The religion BS is a cover, so they can act like they're somehow honorable and concerned about what god would approve of.

[AndyA]

14. Abusers rarely--if ever--learn their lesson until they're caught and stopped

People start by abusing animals--innocent, loving, trusting animals--then they move on to abusing people, and it escalates the more they get away with it.

Why Zimmerman's past actions were kept from the jury is beyond me--seems they should have been necessary for the jury to make an informed decision. He hit a cop, what's to stop him from starting something with a 17 year old kid? Zimmerman was just looking for a confrontation!

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. I know, but rarely people do learn

Mind you...rarely

[Mariana]

19. If Zimmerman feels good about having killed Trayvon,

if he enjoyed it, if he got a thrill out of doing it, I think eventually, he'll kill again.

[Skittles]

22. Zimmerman is a sociopath

he felt no more remorse over stalking and killing Trayvon than he does when he steps on a bug

[Mariana]

42. That's pretty clear to me, too.

What isn't as obvious to me, because of Zimmerman's generally flat affect in most of the audio and video I've heard and seen of him, is how he actually felt about the killing. Did he feel kind of neutral about it, or did it make him happy? Did it excite him? Did he think it was fun? I couldn't tell.

[Skittles]

52. he felt nothing

like Dubya, he emulates his emotions - badly

[GeorgeGist]

12. I think the jury could have had the decency ...

to find Zimmerman guilty of manslaughter; for justice sake.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. In my mind it was proven

But they had to abide with jury instructions.

I think in a stae without a stand your ground...he would have. Here...ll they needed to say was self defense.

[In_The_Wind]

18. Kicked & Recommended

[Skittles]

20. these laws were made to favor gun humping cowards

they need to be changed

[madville]

21. What racial elements were kept off the case?

I now this will be a hot topic at work tomorrow, need some facts to debate with.

What racial elements did they keep from the jury?

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. The 911 tape for example.

As well as all talk of profiling, as well as Mr. Zimmerman's history of encounters with law enforcement. These include n assault on a cop and restraining orders.

[madville]

34. They played the 911 calls for the jury

That's where they heard Zimmerman use the words "fucking punks" and "these assholes". He never said anything derogatory that was race specific though.

We all know he was after Martin because he was black, there just isn't any hard evidence to back it up which will also hinder any federal investigation into this for a hate crime.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Not all of it, not the long history of them.

[madinmaryland]

25. The real issue is that the jury HAD to find Zimmerman NOT Guilty. We can all thank

the FUCKING NRA for passing the "stand-your-ground" laws that allowed a racist murderer to get away with murder.

Sadly, this is not about Zimmerman or even Trayvon Martin, but the murderous intentions of the FUCKING NRA.

Let me repeat this one more time: FUCK THE NRA.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. That is how the law was written

In a state without these laws it would be up to the defense to prove self defense

[madinmaryland]

31. Yes. That is the law that the fucking NRA wrote for the Florida Repukes to pass.

This whole thing needs to be slammed back at the fucking NRA. The NRA killed Trayvon Martin.

[Bay Boy]

36. Does it make you fell better to

blame the NRA?

[madinmaryland]

37. I see that another gungeonite climbed out of the cesspool to comment.

And NO, it does not make me "fell" any better that the NRA is completely to blame for what happened.

[Bay Boy]

60. I asked the question because the NRA didn't

make a difference in this matter. The Stand Your Ground law wasn't used as a defense. Self defense was. This case would have been handled the same way regardless of why state it had happened in.

[hrmjustin]

59. The NRA is evil and must loudly be proclaimed so.

[wercal]

57. I will continue to shout from the mountaintop

This was not a SYH defense.

The defense used a standard self defense claim, rooted in a 1974 Florida law.

I don't care left right or sideways about SYG...and frankly had never heard of it prior to this case. But for the sake of accuracy, I will continue to correct people.

[Half-Century Man]

33. It is Open Season on the Gun Protection laws is all.

Attack the weak points, a basic military tactic. Organize movements/protests across the country, Prove beyond the slightest of doubts that the PEOPLE want public carry of firearms to end. Prove beyond the slightest of doubts that the PEOPLE want private ownership of magazine fed military style weapons at the very least need special licensing and tracking. Prove beyond the slightest of doubts that the PEOPLE want "stand your ground to be rescinded or severely cut back.

Empower 911 Operators far enough to charge people who do not follow instructions given them can be charged with Interfering with Law Enforcement if/when things go bad.

Nadinbrzezinski, you're great, I always enjoy your posts. But saying things like open season on minorities confuses the monumentally stupid, like Zimmerman.

[Boom Sound 416]

38. Open season on minorities?

Two things

So Zimmerman is not a minority because he has a white parent? So whats that make the President of the United States

And

I sure would like to know how many minorities were killed by the majority today. In fact I'd like a running daily thread on it.

[Boom Sound 416]

39. When in the history of the

Criminal justice system did the defense ever have to prove anything?

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Self defense is omething the defense has to prove in Cali

The other, insanity pleas

[Boom Sound 416]

41. Fair enough

But this is Florida and while we're happy to have the Fed as the supreme equalizer, the arguement is (for lack of a better articulation) invalid.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. It wasn't, until stand your ground,

Realize I will stay out from any stand your ground state. And that is a chief reason

I want to live under the Napoleonic code..several countries that have a better safety net

[DirkGently]

44. Nope. The burden on self-defense here was pretty typical.

Defendant has to show enough to get permission to plead it from the judge. Then the prosecution has to overcome beyond a reasonable doubt.

What's driving people nuts is that self-defense laws IN GENERAL do not have "you can't claim self defense if you kicked off the whole situation" clause. Florida has an anti-aggressor provision, but it goes away once the defendant claims he / she believes there was an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm.

They had a shot at manslaughter, but the big problem with the case is there just wasn't any evidence for murder. Everyone's basis is "Zimmerman is a terrible person." That's the same take people had with Casey Anthony. Terrible person doesn't get you convicted of murder. Not in Florida. Not in any reasonable jurisdiction.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. I know they proved manslaughter

But given the constraints of Florida law...which is closer to a point to Napoleonic code inverted.

I don't blame the jury...I bane the law

[DirkGently]

48. Got a better law you want to discuss?

Florida's is very typical.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Stand your ground is not very typical

And is a creation of ALEC. Unless I guess 10 years in the books is typical these days.

[DirkGently]

54. This wasn't a SYG case. No "duty to flee" was raised.

If you think Z made everything up, he made it all up for a textbook claim of self-defense, under perfectly normal statutes. He claimed to be trapped, getting beaten "to death." There was no evidence or adduced, or claim made, that he had a chance to flee and decided to "stand your ground."

So, we agree, SYG is bad law. But it's not what happened here.

[GreenStormCloud]

45. SYG was not involved in this case. It was decided on self-defense law. N/T

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Read the jury instructions

Not only I noticed that the instructions included elements of it.

[DirkGently]

49. But Zimm didn't claim it. So, no, it didn't apply.

SYG gets rid of duty to retreat -- and that's a bad idea. Zimmerman didn't claim he stood his ground. He claimed he was trapped. Same considerations with or without SYG.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Once again. Read the jury instructions

It was included.

Have a good day

[DirkGently]

53. Once again, it only applies to duty to flee. Which wasn't in play.

Have a nice night.

[dionysus]

55. once again you have failed to accept that you were proved wrong. are you a lawyer now too?

[dionysus]

56. good luck getting that to sink in...

[PoliticAverse]

58. Sorry but that just isn't true. In almost all the states in the US the prosecution must prove

the case that it wasn't self-defense. This has nothing to do with the current spate of 'Stand Your Ground' laws.

One state that requires the defendant to prove self-defense is Ohio, and a Supreme Court case in 1987
(Martin v. Ohio - 480 U.S. 228) affirmed their right to do so.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/480/228/