Do you know that GZ wasn't "on patrol" for his nonexistent Neighborhood Watch,

[warrior1]

but driving to Target, packing a pistol.

[grasswire]

1. I would like to know at what point he put a bullet in the chamber.

That would be quite interesting information.

Just before he exited the car?

[Democracyinkind]

3. Going by what many in the Gungeon say, CCW folks always have a round chambered. nt

[Pelican]

8. Not always...

... but vast vast majority.

What good is a gun without a bullet?

[rl6214]

21. If you don't have a round chambered

All you have is an expensive rock. Reality isn't like TV where they rack the slide back to ake lots of noise and add drama.

[naaman fletcher]

6. I'm sure it was already chambered

The thing in the movies where people rack the slide of the pistol before approaching someone is hollywood fantasy. Pretty much everyone who carries a gun, including cops, already has a bullet in the chamber.

[X_Digger]

36. My favorite is when a person cocks the hammer back on a gun they've just been pointing at someone.

Especially after having fired it, which means it would have had to been de-cocked, or when the gun is a single-action semi-auto.

[yeoman6987]

30. I would like to know at what point he put a bullet in the chamber.

That is a great point......It is SOOOOO frustrating that nobody mentioned that he was just going to Target and not "on watch" during this murder. I was yelling at the TV saying Prosecutor get your head out of your ASS!!!!! To me the fact that they did not point out he was just going to the store was a HUGE mistake.

[metalbot]

42. I actually think that would have helped the defense more than the prosecution

The defense would essentially be able to say "Look, he wasn't out looking for trouble. He was just on his way to Target, when he thought he saw someone acting suspicious. At that point, he did exactly what he was told to do, which was to call the police."

Had Zimmerman actually been on "patrol", the prosecution would have had a stronger case that GZ was out looking for trouble.

[GreenStormCloud]

43. He chamber a round when he loaded the gun at home.

And then he tok out the magazine and topped it off to full capacity of 7 rounds..

He could not have chambered it in his truck. That pistol holds 7 in the magazine, 1 in the chamber. That's 7+1. Firing one round then caused the pistol to eject the empty brass and automatically load a new round in the chamber, leaving 6 in the magazine. He was now 6+1. When the police took his pistol it was found to be loaded 6+1.

If he had loaded a round in the chamber while in his car he would have started at 7+0, then gone to 6+1, fired one round and been at 5+1. Since he was at 6+1, then he left home with a fully loaded gun.

[Blackford]

2. If you think you need to carry a concealed weapon in order to go to Walmart

you need to seek professional help. End of story. NOBODY needs a concealed weapon to go to Target, EVER!

[Apophis]

7. This.

[wercal]

9. Ever?

Video of Kelsey Smith right before being abducted at Target:

She was murdered. This is a low crime neighborhood, btw.

[xmas74]

11. CCW isn't allowed at Target .

Family works for their security firm and if it's discovered you can be asked to leave.

[wercal]

19. Each state has different laws

In my state, all Target has to do is put a sign on the door....and CCW can't bring their gun in. So no, this girl could not have legally brought a gun in (assuming they had a sign up).

I was just pointing out that the notion that one could be endangered on a trip to Target was grounds for clinical evaluation was hyperbolic...as danger can be found just about anywhere, including Target.

I know nothing specific about FL laws...but the wikipedia article on CCW does not seem to have a provision for private businesses like Target to ban CCW there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Florida#Concealed_carry

[1-Old-Man]

57. Here, in WV, if there is a sign on the door that says no weapons allowed it has to be honored

[Spazito]

23. Gosh, I guess Zimmerman, the wannabe cop/wannabe lawyer either didn't know or...

intended to completely ignore Target's policy re CCW. I'm betting the latter given his self aggrandizing view of himself.

[rl6214]

34. Yes it is

Just left a Target and the only sign they have is for the unlicensed possession of a weapon.

[GreenStormCloud]

38. If it is discovered, then it wasn't concealed was it?

I have been in Target, carrying concealed. Nothing happened. Concealed means CONCEALED.

[doc03]

55. The sign at the local mall says no firearms except persons authourised

by state or federal law. I have a state issued ccw licence so I assume I am authourised.
I don' t carry one anyway, just got the ccw for the hell of it.

[Pelican]

10. The people involved below might be alive ...

...if someone was aware and armed at these fine Target stores.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/7694832/

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22059393/man-arrested-robbery-and-shooting-at-aurora-target

[Blackford]

13. Target bans CCW at their stores eom

[Pelican]

20. Some of the folks listed above...

... might be alive if that wasn't their policy.

[Blackford]

22. And hundreds more would probably be dead if it wasn't n/t

[Pelican]

24. Yes yes...

... the constant and daily firefights in the streets that we hear about by CCW citizens.

A veritable tidal of wave of violence...

Oh, you mean that doesn't exist and 10s of millions of people carry a gun every day without incident? Well never mind then...

[Blackford]

25. Don't give me that bullshit.

George Zimmerman is the poster child for you responsible gun owners.

Michale Dunn is too.'

THAT is "responsible gun ownership".

[Pelican]

28. And the 10s of millions of people who have no problem every day?

To include the ones who use them properly in their defense?

How convenient for you to just forget about them.

[Blackford]

29. They don;t have a problem YET

Everybody with a CCW is law abiding all the way up to the point where they are not.

[ellie]

50. Exactly

Good gun owners are good right up to the point when they are not.

[Blackford]

52. And George Zimmerman is STILL a 'responsible gun owner'

so that argument no longer cuts it any more.

The gun nutz cut their own throats to spite their faces on the Zimmerman bullshit.

[EOTE]

41. Christ you're bad with logic.

If you own a gun, you're far more likely to kill or injure yourself or other innocents with it than actually defending against any lethal force. You talk about the small amount of gun violence associated with stores like Target, then you say that there would be LESS violence if there were MORE guns. That's well beyond stupidity.

[GreenStormCloud]

44. Genuine statistics show otherwise.

Legal concealed carry saves more innocent lives than it takes.

In Texas the detailed statistics are compiled annually by the Department of Public Safety and published on the internet. It is likely that the Texas experience with Concealed Handgun Licenses would be about the same in other states. The last year for which statistics are published is 2011 for convictions. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/index.htm

In 2011 there were 512,625 people who had CHLs. Out of those people there were exactly three (3) murder convictions and three (3) manslaughter convictions. Out of the general population there were 578 convictions for murder in its various forms.

So very, very few CHL holders go bad, but some do.

The DPS also publishes an annual Crime in Texas Report. http://www.dps.texas.gov/crimereports/10/citCh3.pdf
From that report, page 15:

Statistics on murder circumstances, victims, and
victim/offender relationships on the next page
include justifiable homicides. Justifiable homicide
is the killing of a felon by a peace officer in the
line of duty or the killing (during the commission
of a felony) of a felon by a private citizen. In
2010, there were 98 justifiable homicides, of
which, 50 were felons killed by private citizens,
and 48 were felons killed by police.

In Texas all homicides, even those that are clearly self-defense, have to go before a grand jury which will rule if the killing was justified or not. So those 50 justified private citizen homicides were ones in which the defender genuinely and legitimately feared for his life. Since most shootings are merely woundings there would be a much larger number of justified woundings in which the defender genuinely feared for his life, but that number is not kept. Obviously there are dozens of cases each year in which a CHL holder uses their gun to save themselves.

Dozens of innocent lives saved versus six innocents killed shows the concealed carry is working in Texas. As already stated, there is no reason to believe that other CCW states have a different experience.

Legal concealed carry saves innocent lives.

[EOTE]

45. There are many other types of injuries and deaths not included in that advocacy piece.

It is without a doubt a fact that merely having a gun in your house increases your risk of death and the risk of death of those in your house.

http://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2012/12/health-risk-having-gun-home

[GreenStormCloud]

46. Responses.

Like all anti-gun folks he counts suicides as if the gun broadcast a mind altering field while playing the theme song from M*A*S*H. A person who wants to commit suicide will do it as there are many ways. There are even web pages devoted to how to do it. The risk of suicide is one that I am completely willing to accept.

Accidents with guns are at a record low number, and getting lower. There are other things that have a far greater accident rate than guns, and we accept those accident rate rather than give up those other things in our lives. A risk-free life is impossible. I accept the possibility of accidents and practice safe gun handling. I have been using gun ever since 1955 and haven't had a negligent discharge.

That article does not divide guns into legally owned/illegally owned. The large majority of murderers already have criminal records. http://firearms.hoffmang.com.s3.amazonaws.com/kates/Myth_of_the_Virgin_Killer-Kates-Polsby.pdf That is well know to criminologists, but is almost unknown to the general public. Further, most murder victims also have criminal records. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-08-31-criminal-target_N.htm In most domestic violence killings the police have already been out to the couples house several times. Living with a violent criminals is very dangerous.

BTW - I personally authored the previous piece.

[EOTE]

47. What do you not understand about this?

Having a gun in your home means you and your loved ones are more likely to be injured or killed by a gun. Do you disagree with that? It's fairly straightforward and none of the gun-nutter bullshit you posted negates any of that.

[GreenStormCloud]

48. Driving in a car means you are more likely to be injured in a car accident.

Obviously, if we don't have a gun, then there can be no gun accident. Duh.

For us, the advantages of having guns outweights the disadvantages. Just like the advantages of using a car outweight the disadvantages.

My wife has three times used a gun for self-defense, and I have pulled my .45 on a burglar. Those are over the course of our lives. We are both 67. In each of those cases we didn't need to shoot. The burglar/rapist/mugger/mugger decided to go somewhere else, in a hurry. Since we are 67, you can see that defensive gun uses are extremely rare. For me, a once-in-a-lifetime event, three times for my wife.

We are a peaceful loving couple who calmly discusses our differences so we aren't about to shoot each other.

[EOTE]

49. People drive cars to go places. Guns are solely used for killing things.

So you admit that having a gun in your house means that you and your loved ones are far more likely to die by having a gun. Your only response to that is: But then I couldn't own a gun, and what fun would that be? Yes, this is the logic of the gun nutter.

[rl6214]

35. No they don't EOM

[pintobean]

12. I watched a guy kick a woman's car window out

and started bashing her head on the door - at Target. I would assume she would have been justified in shooting him if she could.

Three young guys tackled the guy and held him down while waiting for the cops. They got there PDQ, arrested the guy and took statements from the witnesses. I assume the guy plead guilty, since I never heard anything back from the cops or any lawyers.

[Blackford]

14. Target bans CCW at their stores eom

[pintobean]

15. The car wasn't in the store. eom

[Blackford]

16. Parking lot still Target property EOM.

[rl6214]

32. No they don't, get your facts straight

I just left the Target a half mile from my house. The sign on their door says:

"The unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony with a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment and a fine not to exceed $10,000.



That is not a ban.

[GreenStormCloud]

39. Those signs are hilarious.

Criminals ignore them. Anti-gun folks think that they are a ban on all guns. And CCW folks know that they are licensed and the sign doesn't apply to them. Everybody is happy.

[rl6214]

40. You said it

[IdaBriggs]

26. And no guns were necessary - yeah! Seems like reality worked.

And the gun fantasy that she "needed" a gun at the moment (which good luck in accessing it, unless you are Zimmerman) is once again proven false.

[warrior1]

4. I also heard

but can verify that he didn't have any money and debt cards with him.

Can anyone verfiy that?

[Raine1967]

31. I doubt it can be at this point; Sanford PD did SQUAT to investigate GZ

after he killed Trayvon Martin. It is long verified that he said was going to Target. For the life of me, I will never understand why he just didn;t keep going to Target.

The irony of the name of the store still bugs the shit out of me. Target.

[wercal]

5. This actually helps Zimmerman in future civil rights litigation

If he acting under the color of authority, there is a chance at a civil rights case against him....like if he had a 'citizens patrol' armband or something like that.

[rl6214]

17. That's already been stated by the media

[DefenseLawyer]

27. It's hard to blame Zimmerman for the outcome of the trial.

Blame him for what he did, but once he's charged with a crime, he's got a right to present a defense and a right to have the State prove its case. Blame the outcome on the trial on the prosecution and particularly on the police witnesses. They were in the tank for Zimmerman from the beginning. The trial was a charade. The defense knew it. Why else would a defense lawyer ever dare to ask a police witness for the state if he thought the defendant was "credible"? In normal circumstances, the cop would tee that up and crush you. Not only did he ask it and get the answer he wanted, the State didn't even immediately object to what any first year law student knows is vouching for another witness. What prosecutor raises "questions" for the jury in closing argument? None in the more than 100 criminal jury trials I've done. That's what I do. Questions=doubts.
At the end of the day, those cops didn't think Zimmerman did anything wrong and they did everything they could to torpedo their own case. That's what ought to be most troubling to us about this trial.

[JVS]

37. Is there anything a prosecution can do in such a situation?

When watching the trial I was surprised that every witness they brought out was 1 step forward and 3 steps back for their case. Are there any ways for prosecutors to cope with this?

[GreenStormCloud]

33. True. And what is the point? N/T

[Skittles]

51. he targeted, stalked and murdered someone for no reason

THAT is the point

[GreenStormCloud]

53. The jury has already decided. It wasn't murder. Self-defense. N/T

[Skittles]

54. LOLOL

you'd be singing a different tune if he had targeted, stalked and murdered one of your loved ones for no reason

[doc03]

56. Yep he just saw a black kid walking by and assumed he had

to be up to something.