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Duer 157099

(17,742 posts)
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:08 PM Jul 2013

How does Juror B37 know that Zimmerman didn't grab Trayvon's sweatshirt and try to hold onto him?

Rachel heard Trayvon yelling "get offa me!" which people also use to mean "let me go" and Trayvon's hoodie drawstring was pulled way down on the right side, something that can happen when someone grabs your sweatshirt there and pulls.

Juror B37 said that Trayvon is very much responsible for his own death because he didn't leave the scene after George let things go too far (poor Georgie!) and that is the reason George was forced to kill Trayvon.

She apparently never even considered that George may have grabbed Trayvon. Everything B37 says reveals that she simply never heard Rachel Jeantel aside from the "creepy ass cracker" comment. Said that if Rachel had heard something happening (which she did, and testified to) why didn't she say anything? Said that she didn't know anything about Trayvon because nobody talked about what he was like (oh yeah? I heard several hours of Rachel testifying and talking about what Trayvon was like.

B37 must have color deafness.

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How does Juror B37 know that Zimmerman didn't grab Trayvon's sweatshirt and try to hold onto him? (Original Post) Duer 157099 Jul 2013 OP
Her log told her. onehandle Jul 2013 #1
OMG you know, I get that Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #2
I do. Had to think about it for a minute. Whisp Jul 2013 #17
I do! dflprincess Jul 2013 #21
nope, I think even the log would have come back with AT LEAST guilty of manslaughter... bench scientist Jul 2013 #4
The log lady was much smarter. yardwork Jul 2013 #46
Based on Zimmerman's want to be a hero attitude and not wanting the A-Hole to get away Quixote1818 Jul 2013 #3
Exactly which is why I also think that avebury Jul 2013 #7
The ballistics dude said Trayvon was on top XemaSab Jul 2013 #47
The hysteria about this case has been all about emotion.. Mojo Electro Jul 2013 #5
The gun recoil broke his nose, naaman fletcher Jul 2013 #14
Ya think?! Carolina Jul 2013 #18
There's no hysteria? Mojo Electro Jul 2013 #20
We're also surprised brush Jul 2013 #31
For one thing... Mojo Electro Jul 2013 #36
What's your position on zimmerman then? nt brush Jul 2013 #37
To answer your question... Mojo Electro Jul 2013 #39
Okay. We feel the same brush Jul 2013 #45
The United States is a nation of emotions over facts laundry_queen Jul 2013 #19
From the OP: "Rachel heard Trayvon yelling "get offa me!" which people also use to mean "let me go" Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #25
Well we certainly didn't get the real story brush Jul 2013 #30
I don't know about the number of hits, etc... Mojo Electro Jul 2013 #35
It's not obvious he was getting his ass whipped brush Jul 2013 #38
I think he was getting his ass kicked AgingAmerican Jul 2013 #40
I agree with most brush Jul 2013 #42
By getting his ass kicked AgingAmerican Jul 2013 #43
Maybe brush Jul 2013 #44
You are blessed by the Gods to have such insight Maximumnegro Jul 2013 #49
That would have been up to the prosecution to make that case. TampaAnimusVortex Jul 2013 #6
I believe he had his gun out and tortured that child with it HipChick Jul 2013 #8
I look forward to hearing how the evidence supports this. n/t Mojo Electro Jul 2013 #15
Was she the juror that refused to look at Rachel? n/t targetpractice Jul 2013 #9
The jurors all apparently agreed AgingAmerican Jul 2013 #41
I do wish the prosecution had painted such a scenario mzmolly Jul 2013 #10
I am starting to have doubts that many Americans have the critical thinking skills to serve Pholus Jul 2013 #11
Georgie didn't leave the area either pokerfan Jul 2013 #12
Thank you. Igel Jul 2013 #23
The the prosecution ever enter evidence to suggest that is what happened? Travis_0004 Jul 2013 #13
The prosecution did a shitty job. naaman fletcher Jul 2013 #16
I think many either cannot or have great difficulty separating what they believe and what is proven TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #26
From the OP: "Rachel heard Trayvon yelling "get offa me!" which people also use to mean "let me go" Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #24
the only thing this stupid fuck heard was the sound of cash regiters frylock Jul 2013 #22
And this matters how, exactly? Igel Jul 2013 #27
I'm convinced she heard none of the trial TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #28
Yeah but that's not how it works. Zimmerman has the presumption of innocence davidn3600 Jul 2013 #29
Yeah, in Florida brush Jul 2013 #32
ALEC laws have got to be brought down. They are wreaking havoc on our country. GiaGiovanni Jul 2013 #34
Because nobody knows GiaGiovanni Jul 2013 #33
Although this wasn't the case to begin with davidpdx Jul 2013 #48

bench scientist

(1,107 posts)
4. nope, I think even the log would have come back with AT LEAST guilty of manslaughter...
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:25 PM
Jul 2013

after all the log did say "The tender boughs of innocence burn first, and the wind rises, and then all goodness is in jeopardy."

Quixote1818

(28,903 posts)
3. Based on Zimmerman's want to be a hero attitude and not wanting the A-Hole to get away
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:21 PM
Jul 2013

This has been my theory all along. He was going to hold the kid until the cops got there and maybe make up a story that the kid did something to him if things went bad.

avebury

(10,946 posts)
7. Exactly which is why I also think that
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:28 PM
Jul 2013

Zimmerman already had the gun out. He probably panicked and shot Trayvon and then fell back on his classroom work to fabricate a story to sell the incident as self defense.

Mojo Electro

(362 posts)
5. The hysteria about this case has been all about emotion..
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:26 PM
Jul 2013

I hate to have to say it, but it's been all about emotion, and very little about facts. It's to the point people are making up scenarios out of whole cloth, from "the gun recoil broke Zimmerman's nose" to this.

You may not like how this turned out, it may make you angry, but that doesn't entitle anyone to their own facts. I can't recall any time in recent history that I've seen people's rational thinking more decimated by knee-jerk, foaming-at-the-mouth, emotional outrage than I do over this case. It is clouding a lot of people's judgement.

Carolina

(6,960 posts)
18. Ya think?!
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:42 PM
Jul 2013

Poor Georgie, so innocent, protecting his neighborhood from assholes and punks. This was the defense; they exploited emotion, white racist emotion.

There's no hysteria; there's righteous anger about injustice!

Usually I welcome newcomers, but you sound like a troll... bye, bye

Mojo Electro

(362 posts)
20. There's no hysteria?
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:47 PM
Jul 2013

Really? Sorry you think I'm a troll. Maybe I just still have my wits about me. I'm surprised at what DU has become.

brush

(53,467 posts)
31. We're also surprised
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 11:50 PM
Jul 2013

at all the zimmerman supporters on here. Never would've thunk it on this site.

What's your position on this? We'd like to know, seeing as you only have 44 posts and you say you're surprised at what we've become.

You can tell that after just 44 posts?

Mojo Electro

(362 posts)
36. For one thing...
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 06:04 AM
Jul 2013

Just because someone may have a different opinion about the actual facts of the case does not automatically make them a "Zimmerman supporter".

Second, I've been on DU before, but I didn't use my old login for a few years and couldn't get back in. Long story short, this place seemed more open to someone having a different opinion in the past. I've seen posts getting alerted left and right, and people being called trolls and such, for posts that are clearly not disruptive, someone didn't like what the person had to say and didn't think they had a place. I served on such a jury. Clearly the alert was of spite. I voted "Leave it alone"

That's what I mean about emotion taking over. Since when are differing opinions treated with such outright hostiliy? If you don't toe the line on the Zimmerman thing, you don't belong on DU, is that it?

Mojo Electro

(362 posts)
39. To answer your question...
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 12:53 PM
Jul 2013

I think he's an asshole, a busybody, a wanna-be cop who should have just minded his own business. I do not think he is a racist, or this incident was racially motivated. I think the jury made the correct decision with the evidence that they had before them.

I'm sure I'll be called a "Zimmerman supporter" for the answer I've given to your question. That's not true. I'm no fan of Zimmy, and I can't stand people like him.

brush

(53,467 posts)
45. Okay. We feel the same
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 03:03 PM
Jul 2013

way except I think the jury should have found him guilty.

3 of them initially voted to convict him but allowed their minds to be sway somehow — probably by the juror B37, who apparently didn't even consider anything but the defense's story.

Too bad they weren't stronger because there were so many inconsistencies and even impossibilities in what zimmerman said on the tapes.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
19. The United States is a nation of emotions over facts
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:46 PM
Jul 2013

I think it started when GWB talked about going with his gut.

Duer 157099

(17,742 posts)
25. From the OP: "Rachel heard Trayvon yelling "get offa me!" which people also use to mean "let me go"
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 10:11 PM
Jul 2013

Is that out of whole cloth? Please, go on...

brush

(53,467 posts)
30. Well we certainly didn't get the real story
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 11:47 PM
Jul 2013

from zimmerman who was trying to save his ass. He lied so many times I don't see how any of the jury members believe a word of his story. No I take that back. They are all white with one seemly wannabe white, and they're from central Florida, not exactly a center of racial tolerance and critical thinking.

So what's your take on it? Do you also thinking Trayvon Martin jumped out of bushes and head bashed zimmy on concrete 20-30 times while also punching him 35-45 times while also smothering his mouth and nose without getting a speck of zimmerman dna on him or any marks on his hands?

Mojo Electro

(362 posts)
35. I don't know about the number of hits, etc...
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 05:52 AM
Jul 2013

But it seems pretty obvious Zimmy was getting his ass whipped, a fact that the case hinged on.

brush

(53,467 posts)
38. It's not obvious he was getting his ass whipped
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 10:12 AM
Jul 2013

I thought you were following the case.

The woman ME testified that zimmerman's injuries were very minor and just needed a band-aid for treatment.

That's not what I called getting his ass whipped.

That's what I call another of the glaring lies zimmerman told and that the jury chose to overlook.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
40. I think he was getting his ass kicked
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 01:08 PM
Jul 2013

I think he was emboldened because he had a gun. He started the fight. When he started getting his ass kicked, he pulled out the gun and shot Trayvon.

brush

(53,467 posts)
42. I agree with most
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 01:43 PM
Jul 2013

of what you wrote. I guess we disagree on what the definition of getting his ass kicked means.

I don't think there was much of a fight in other words. There was no evidence of a fight on Trayvon, no scratches or bruises or zimmerman dna.

I think zimmerman tried to hold Martin for the cops, there was a brief struggle, then zimmerman just pulled out the gun and shot.

All that stuff about the head bashes and face punching and nose and mouth smothering is just not back up by evidence from Trayvon's unmarked body.

brush

(53,467 posts)
44. Maybe
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 02:55 PM
Jul 2013

but why no physical evidence on Trayvon's body?

I think zimmerman shot him pretty quickly in the struggle. Rachel Jantel even testified that she heard Trayvon say to "get off me."

Maximumnegro

(1,134 posts)
49. You are blessed by the Gods to have such insight
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 10:38 PM
Jul 2013

if only those of us who have been so immersed in the how and the whys of institutionalized racism for centuries were able to have the phenomenal objectivity you and others like you have attained, we would surely know the grace this verdict has brought us.

Every day you wake up you should count yourself lucky that you're able to have the viewpoint you do, because for a lot of us our personal histories are riddled with the dead whose obituaries were written by those of similar minds as you.

Really. You lucked out. Enjoy it.

TampaAnimusVortex

(785 posts)
6. That would have been up to the prosecution to make that case.
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:27 PM
Jul 2013

And while that evidence might have been somewhat leading, it isn't really conclusive. It still comes down to the fact that there isn't any real good solid evidence about who threw the first punch and the law is set up to presume the accused is innocent.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
41. The jurors all apparently agreed
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 01:10 PM
Jul 2013

She is being used as the scapegoat, but all of the jurors agreed. We would probably hear similar bs from the other five too.

mzmolly

(50,957 posts)
10. I do wish the prosecution had painted such a scenario
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:31 PM
Jul 2013

for the jury to ponder. I think they got side tracked when DiMaio testified and their own ME didn't remember the case. They just didn't have a comprehensive story.

B37 is an idiot, regardless.

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
11. I am starting to have doubts that many Americans have the critical thinking skills to serve
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:32 PM
Jul 2013

as effective and responsible members of a jury. The moment that "Jury profiling" became popular, it indicated that actual logic is not as important as pre-existing sympathy.

pokerfan

(27,677 posts)
12. Georgie didn't leave the area either
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:32 PM
Jul 2013

There was a difference of ~3 minutes between the ending of his call with the dispatcher and the abrupt/violent ending of Trayvon's call with Rachel. George told the dispatcher that he was heading back to his truck, only about thirty seconds away.

What was George doing during that time? Apparently, still hinting Trayvon, per Rachel's testimony that Trayvon said that the "guy was back" and was "getting closer."

Igel

(35,191 posts)
23. Thank you.
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 10:04 PM
Jul 2013

"He's back" rather means "he was gone" and we can suppose that GZ didn't know where TM was.

I'd missed that.

I thought that TM had run and hidden someplace. But it makes no sense for GZ to be following TM and then go away enough for TM to say, "He's back" and then "He's getting closer." And if you were being stalked, would you let GZ "get closer" voluntarily if you were walking along? I'd pick up the pace--if we were 20 feet apart for the last 5 minutes, we could stay 20 feet apart until help arrived.

"Hidden" might just mean he stepped off the sidewalk and was near a building partly hidden by a tree. But I couldn't reconcile having GZ following TM for as long as the phone call took + most of the two minutes without them winding up far, far away from where they started. Or doing multiple circuits around the block.

 

Travis_0004

(5,417 posts)
13. The the prosecution ever enter evidence to suggest that is what happened?
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:34 PM
Jul 2013

Under the legal system we have now, it is the prosecutions job to prove that Zimmerman is guilty.
It is not Zimmermans job to prove he is innocent, so if there was no evidence presented that that did happen, she is not going to automatically assume it.

 

naaman fletcher

(7,362 posts)
16. The prosecution did a shitty job.
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:38 PM
Jul 2013

They had three things on their side:

1. Zimmerman following Martin.
2 . Jenteals testimony that trayvon was trying to get away.
3. Martin dead with no blood on his hands.


That was the story. Instead they wasted hours with witnesses that helped the defense and didnt prep Jenteal well.

TheKentuckian

(24,934 posts)
26. I think many either cannot or have great difficulty separating what they believe and what is proven
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 10:22 PM
Jul 2013

Or maybe even more separating that there is evidence to support what they believe and what is proven beyond plausibility and a bigger issue with what I believe to be a purely circumstantial or even exceptional desire for a legal bar somewhere between presumption of guilt and most probable.

The prospect of facing a jury with the attitudes toward the system and defendants in general among Democrats is daunting. Add in the TeaPubliKlan anti-justice brigade and a state with unlimited dollars and every incentive to win rather than seek justice and it is frightening to think of being innocent under that hammer unless about ever wind is at your back.

Duer 157099

(17,742 posts)
24. From the OP: "Rachel heard Trayvon yelling "get offa me!" which people also use to mean "let me go"
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 10:10 PM
Jul 2013

I know everyone is ignoring what Rachel HEARD, so yeah, no evidence whatsoever.

Igel

(35,191 posts)
27. And this matters how, exactly?
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 10:23 PM
Jul 2013

During the scuffle all kinds of things might have happened. GZ might have thrown the first punch. Might not have. GZ might have been reaching to pull TM out of hiding. Might not have. GZ might have tripped and fallen on TM's feet. Might not have.


Doesn't matter.


At the moment when we suddenly start to care for the purposes of the law, it's clear enough.

We have all kinds of attempts to show that TM is innocent of things, that GZ is guilty of things, but ultimately none of them matters in oh so many ways.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
28. I'm convinced she heard none of the trial
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 10:27 PM
Jul 2013

She even said that she believed that Zimmerman fabricated and embellished a lot but that she found him truthful.


I guess she could also find someone skinny but also fat.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
29. Yeah but that's not how it works. Zimmerman has the presumption of innocence
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 10:29 PM
Jul 2013

It's up to the prosecution to prove that it wasn't self-defense. The prosecution can't just make suggestions...they have to give proof.

brush

(53,467 posts)
32. Yeah, in Florida
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 12:07 AM
Jul 2013

because of their ALEC-written, NRA-championed and Koch-sponsored laws prosecutors have to prove that an admitted killer of an unarmed teen, caught with the murder weapon, is guilty. Unbelievable!

We have now crossed over into Bizarro World and unfortunately there is no turning back.

Up is now down, fat is now thin, heavy is now light, fast is now slow, but black is not white, only white is white and it is always right.

 

GiaGiovanni

(1,247 posts)
34. ALEC laws have got to be brought down. They are wreaking havoc on our country.
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 12:24 AM
Jul 2013

The Kochs are a couple of evil bastards.

 

GiaGiovanni

(1,247 posts)
33. Because nobody knows
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 12:23 AM
Jul 2013

Remember that the jury had to work with a select number of facts, and there are no eyewitnesses for what happened between Zimmerman's call to the police and the eventual fight on the grass.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
48. Although this wasn't the case to begin with
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 09:45 PM
Jul 2013

I now feel the jury disregarded the testimony of the prosecution witnesses and were bias to a degree before the trial started.

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