If someone has their hands around your neck and reaching for your gun

[HipChick]

wouldn't you say your life is in danger?

Another example of how SYG only works in one direction, against black people

Dooley, a school bus driver with no record of violence, now faces up to 30 years in prison for fatally shooting 41-year-old David James in front of James' 8-year-old daughter as they wrestled on the ground after arguing over a skateboarder.


Tampa jury has found Trevor Dooley, a 71-year-old black man, guilty of manslaughter in the shooting death of his white neighbor, 41-year-old David James,

According to the Tampa Bay Times, the jury rejected Dooley’s claim of self-defense under the state of Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law.

One of the jury members said the law did not apply to this case, while jury foreman Walter Joss said, “The whole silly thing was over a skateboard … and it just escalated.”

However, the Jamaican-born Dooley believes that racism played a big part in his conviction.

He told reporters, “Do you really think that if it was the other way around and the skin color would be different we would be here today? … We wouldn’t.”



The incident occurred in September 2010, when James and Dooley got into an argument over a skateboarder who had been given permission by James to skateboard on the other side of the basketball court where James and his daughter had been playing.

Neighbors who witnessed the altercation and later testified said they saw Dooley flip up his T-shirt, revealing a gun in his waistband, while cursing at James.

Dooley, who is 5-feet-7 and weighs 160 pounds, said in his testimony that he shot the 6-foot-1, 240 pound James when he felt his life was in danger because James had his hands around Dooley’s neck and was trying to reach for his gun.

The Times also reported that along with manslaughter, Dooley was also convicted of improper exhibition of a weapon and open carrying of a firearm, both misdemeanors.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/jury-finds-trevor-dooley-guilty-in-manslaughter-case/1262347

[BainsBane]

1. That is exactly how those laws work

They are used overwhelmingly for the benefit of whites and against blacks. Mother Jones reports than whites invoke them 11x more than African Americans.
This is why the Office for Civil Rights is investigating Stand Your Ground laws.

[NancyDL]

2. They have their hands around your neck AND are reaching for your gun?

Good one. LOL!

[dkf]

3. I was willing to give this guy the benefit of the doubt but his account of being choked doesn't

Match the testimony of 2 disinterested witnesses whose accounts were different.

If there were bruises around his throat I would have considered self defense an option.

[heaven05]

5. you

didn't consider Trayvon was in fear of his life after being stalked and confronted by zimpig, you aren't surprising on this one either. No one should care whether you're willing to give benefit of doubt about anything. You are a zimpig apologist/supporter and are tainted with a big 'R' scarlet letter in my book.

[dkf]

6. Geez it's the person on trial who you are supposed to be reviewing the actions of.

What do people not get? Self defense is for people on trial. Hellooooo!!!!

[heaven05]

24. supporters

of a racist murderer shall be called out by me. Benefit of the doubt my ass. Did zimpig give Trayvon's skin color benefit of doubt. Well we all know the answer to that. Go find a bridge to sit under and scare people....

[uponit7771]

10. OF COURSE you completely ignore the "reaching for my gun" part. There were 2 parts to Z's defense an

...there are 2 parts to Dooleys defense

Dooley goes to jail, he's black
Zimpic goes free...he's not black

[dkf]

12. Read it again. Dooley says it was self defense for the choking.

The two witnesses say the other guy was reaching for Dooley's gun.

From the article, Dooley's rationale wasn't the gun grabbing.

At least that is how I read it.

[uponit7771]

14. Yes it was! That was part of his defense!! That the other guy was grabbing for his gun JUST like Z..

...said TM was grabbing for HIS gun.

and was trying to reach for his gun.

A 5'7" Dooly is going to jail because he's black and was getting his ass kicked by a guy that was 240lbs and shot for the same reasons GZ said he shot

Really, you believe the no witness z story over the witness's of Dooleys?!

[dkf]

15. Where does Dooley assert the other guy was going for his gun?

An argument between Dooley and James got the attention of a married couple, Michael and Michelle Whitt, who were practicing serves on the adjacent tennis court.

The bizarre nature of the dispute, they said, caused them to stop and watch. It quickly took a lethal turn.

They testified last week they saw Dooley flip up his T-shirt, revealing a gun in his waistband, as he cursed James. They said Dooley then turned and headed home, but James spun him around and tried to grab the gun.

The skateboarder, Spencer Arthur, also watched, stunned. He didn't see Dooley flash a gun but said he saw him pull out the weapon as he spun around.

"The only consistency in their testimony," defense attorney Ronald Tulin said to the jury, "was that Mr. Dooley walked away. How can you convict him of manslaughter if he's trying to walk away?"

Dooley, who is 5-feet-7 and weighs 160 pounds, told jurors he had to struggle with a man 28 years younger who was 6-1 and 240 pounds. He said he pulled out the gun only after James grabbed him by the throat and began yanking him to the ground. "I had no other choice,'' he said.

[uponit7771]

16. You're freakin kidding me!! Link and quote inside

Dooley told jurors, "He gave me no other choice. He was killing me. He had me by the neck. I couldn't breathe. He tried to take the gun away from me. If he took the gun away from me, what do you think he would have done with it? I had no other choice. I was on my way home. That's all I wanted to do."

Not only that but james FOLLOWED Dooley threw him to the ground and began choking him!!!!

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=283139

SYG is a whites only law...

disgusting

[JVS]

4. Was Dooley choked badly enough to require hospitalization?

I ask this because it seems popular among DUers and some prosecutors to imply that fear of grave bodily injury is premature if not accompanied by serious injuries.

[uponit7771]

8. By GZ standards Dooly on needs to THINK that he will need hospitalization. Dooley can get up, go to

...work the next day and drive home that afternoon or evening and the judge should allow the jury to deliberate.

No need for proof that the persons life was in danger

[JVS]

17. "By GZ standards Dooly on needs to THINK that he will need hospitalization"

Wrong. He only needs to fear that he could be seriously injured. Neither Dooley nor Zimmerman actually needed to be gravely injured.

But if people think that Zimmerman's wounds were somehow too light to justify his fear, then they'd have to hold Dooley to the same standard. Then they'd at least be consistent, although not correct.

[uponit7771]

18. injured or hospitalized tomato tomoto.. Also, like Z..Dooley had a two part defense. Injuries and...

...going for his gun

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=283139

Zimmerman didn't have any witness's but Dooly being choked by Davis DID have witness's

Dooley walked away and Davis "followed" and then attacked Dooley

SYG is a whites only law

regards

[uponit7771]

7. More proof that SYG is a whites only law

[Blue_Tires]

13. +1

[lunatica]

9. Some people have three hands

two around someone's neck and the third reaching into pockets and things. You gotta defend yourself from those people.

[quakerboy]

30. Some people have

Hands large enough to go around your throat, leaving a second hand free to do other things. They may also have the ability to be attempting to choke you, and then quickly move to some other part of the struggle.

And many people do not use words well to effectively communicate, doing things like inaccurately adding plurals, changing tenses, and not well defining timeline of quickly occurring events.

[avebury]

11. Self Defense and Stand Your Ground only applies to white people. Minorities

need not apply.

[HipChick]

22. This is what I am seeing..

[avebury]

23. Wait and see how they will like it when the white

people become a minority race.

[Lee-Lee]

19. If you bother to go find the details of the case

Instead of just media reports, you will see that Mr Dooley pulled his gun out first, at a point where the confrontation, to that point, was just verbal. Heated, but just verbal.

That makes Mr Dooley the aggressor, as he escalated the encounter above mere words first.

You can't be the aggressor and claim SYG, just like the other case we see all over you can't leave the scene, get a gun, return and claim SYG.

Come on folks- dig past media reports and analyze the facts for yourself.

[jmg257]

21. You can claim SYG as an agressor if you TRY to desist...and can't.

i.e someone choking you, someone sitting on you

[DeschutesRiver]

26. FL 776.041(2) allows use of deadly force BY THE AGGRESSOR in certain circumstances

You are wrong in your assertion that an aggressor can not use SYG as a defense in Florida. This odd exemption for an aggressor was highlighted by the Zimmerman debacle. The aggressor exemption was discussed online and on tv/radio in great length, so unless you live in a cave I can't see how you missed it. Besides all you have to do is dig into it yourself, but here, let me google it for you.

Here is the link to the Florida stand your ground law:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html

Here is the section that explains how you can be the aggressor and claim SYG.

776.041
The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1)?Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2)?Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a)?Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b)?In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

Did this event occur in Florida? If so, then the exemptions above for the aggressor apply.

SYG laws are not uniform in every state, but the Florida law's unusual safety zone for an aggressor has been well publicized and discussed everywhere.

[Lee-Lee]

27. How does FL case law

Define withdraw and dd his actions rise to that standard?

I would love to read the actual transcript of that hearing.

[DeschutesRiver]

29. That i do not know. Just wanted to correct the aggressor thing as that is 100% wrong in FL.

I am an attorney but not in Florida. We do not have an aggressor exception in my state.

But you dont need to be a lawyer to see that the FL statute is clear about giving an aggressor a safe haven under limited circumstances.

[jmg257]

20. What's similiar in these cases is people getting killed - WITH GUNS - for NO

good reason.

Skateboarder argument?

Walking home from the store?

Pow. Pow.

Satisfaction to be found, carrying while getting in arguments, or is that getting in arguments while you are carrying?

Guns make you brave.

[bushisanidiot]

25. Racist whites have been frothing at the mouth for a race war for decades.

Stand your ground gives them the avenue they need to carry it out and avoid going to ail for their crimes. I predict racist whites will be organizing and actively setting up young black men to be executed via this horrible aw.

[onenote]

28. Except neither the judge nor the jury believed that version of events

And, apparently, the only witness to testify that version of the events was the defendant. Other witnesses, including a neighbor not related to the victim, testified that Dooley pulled his gun first and only then did the victim grab the defendant and take him to ground, at which time he was shot while struggling with the defendant.

In this case, Dooley, unlike Zimmerman, sought a pretrial SYG hearing. At that hearing (and I don't think many people realize this), the burden of proof was on Dooley to convince the judge, by a preponderance of the evidence, of his version of what happened. He failed to do so,with the judge, after hearing testimony from witnesses and examining physical evidence, concluded that "...the evidence showed that Mr. James had not been threatening or aggressive in any way toward Defendant, although he did appear to be shocked, defensive, loud, upset and agitated. It was not until Defendant reached for and pulled out his weapon - indicating an intent to escalate from an argument to violence - that Mr. James exerted and used physical force against Defendant."

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_hillsborough/stand-your-ground-defense-denied-for-trevor-dooley-in-2010-death-of-david-james-in-valrico


Having failed to gain immunity from being tried at all, Dooley's testimony was nonetheless sufficient to allow the issue of self defense to be put before the jury after a trial. That jury, hearing much the same evidence as the jury, apparently came to the conclusion that the prosecution had established, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Dooley did not have a legitimate self defense claim. The basis for the jury's conclusion could be any number of things -- they didn't find Dooley who was the only one to testify that he was being choked to be credible and thus believed,beyond a reasonable doubt, the testimony of those witnesses who indicated that Dooley had pulled his gun first and/or that the victim was not choking Dooley.