Model describes universe with no big bang, no beginning, and no end

[The Straight Story]

By suggesting that mass, time, and length can be converted into one another as the universe evolves, Wun-Yi Shu has proposed a new class of cosmological models that may fit observations of the universe better than the current big bang model. What this means specifically is that the new models might explain the increasing acceleration of the universe without relying on a cosmological constant such as dark energy, as well as solve or eliminate other cosmological dilemmas such as the flatness problem and the horizon problem.

Shu, an associate professor at National Tsing Hua University in Taiwan, explains in a study posted at arXiv.org that the new models emerge from a new perspective of some of the most basic entities: time, space, mass, and length. In his proposal, time and space can be converted into one another, with a varying speed of light as the conversion factor. Mass and length are also interchangeable, with the conversion factor depending on both a varying gravitational “constant” and a varying speed of light (G/c2). Basically, as the universe expands, time is converted into space, and mass is converted into length. As the universe contracts, the opposite occurs.

“We view the speed of light as simply a conversion factor between time and space in spacetime,” Shu writes. “It is simply one of the properties of the spacetime geometry. Since the universe is expanding, we speculate that the conversion factor somehow varies in accordance with the evolution of the universe, hence the speed of light varies with cosmic time.”

...

He tested one of the models against current cosmological observations of Type Ia supernovae that have revealed that the universe appears to be expanding at an accelerating rate. He found that, because acceleration is an inherent part of his model, it fits the redshift data of the observed supernovae quite well. In contrast, the currently accepted big bang model does not fit the data, which has caused scientists to search for other explanations such as dark energy that theoretically makes up 75% of the mass-energy of the universe.

Shu’s models may also account for other problems faced by the standard big bang model. For instance, the flatness problem arises in the big bang model from the observation that a seemingly flat universe such as ours requires finely tuned initial conditions. But because the universe is a 3-sphere in Shu’s models, the flatness problem “disappears automatically.” Similarly, the horizon problem occurs in standard cosmology because it should not be possible for distant places in the universe to share the same physical properties (as they do), since it should require communication faster than the speed of light due to their great distances. However, Shu’s models solve this problem due to their lack of big bang origin and intrinsic acceleration.


http://phys.org/news199591806.html

[Puzzledtraveller]

1. I like this

I have been pondering the idea of this for some time.

[alterfurz]

36. I do, too...

...maybe just because it's aesthetically pleasing?--as Einstein maintained, elegance and simplicity are always factors to consider when hypothesizing!

[Pholus]

2. Cool, but it doesn't matter. The Higgs Boson shows we're DOOOOOOOMED....

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-the-higgs-boson-might-spell-doom-for-the-universe

The original paper on this topic (the false vacuum) is from the 70's (Coleman and de Luccia) had one of the most downer quotes I've ever seen in a scientific paper - even though it isn't my field I had to look that one up just to see it in the journal format:

The possibility that we are living in a false vacuum has never been a cheering one to contemplate. Vacuum decay is the ultimate ecological catastrophe; in the new vacuum there are new constants of nature; after vacuum decay, not only is life as we know it impossible, so is chemistry as we know it. However, one could always draw stoic comfort from the possibility that perhaps in the course of time the new vacuum would sustain, if not life as we know it, at least some structures capable of knowing joy. This possibility has now been eliminated.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_vacuum

[Poll_Blind]

11. Holy shit, I'm going to try to forget that or my Wednesday is shot.

Reading along in that excerpted paragraph I was like "Oh....Yow..." then hit the last two sentences "...Ahhhhh crapfuck."



PB

[pinboy3niner]

21. I pulled the plug on vaccuum theory long ago

Problem solved!

[HardTimes99]

31. To quote Pink Floyd (that purveryor of pop

philosophy): "I've become comfortably numb."

[KansDem]

3. I've always wondered about the "beginning" and "end" of the universe...

What was there before the beginning and what will be here after the ending?

[tridim]

4. Some physicists are theorizing that our universe exists within a black hole in our parent universe.

And that our parent universe has lots of grandchildren.

It's a fractal analog of Earth biology. The "before" was just like before you were born.

[Rozlee]

25. I read that theory.

I didn't understand all the specifics about space time torsion and how it impacts the creation of dark matter, but it was still fascinating. The universe we live in seems infinite on it's own and to think of others in the limitless black holes it has is a staggering thought, especially considering the possibility of lifeforms that may exist in them and others like them in other universes. I always liked Spock's quote, "Infinite diversity in infinite combinations." Science has left sci-fi in the dust.

[GOTV]

6. Time, like space, was created with and within the universe. It's part of it.

Outside of a universe there is no time and so there is no "before" or "after" a universe. I think that's how physicists view it.

[KansDem]

13. I remember a conversation I had with my brother around 1960

I was 7 or 8 and he was 12 or 13.

Anyway, he told me the universe had no end. I said of course it does. Everything has an end.

He said, Okay, how does it end?
I said with a fence.
He said what kind of fence?
I said a grape-stake fence (we had one around our backyard).
He asked where does the grape-stake fence end?
I said with a stone wall.
He asked where does the stone wall end?
I said with a picket fence.
He asked where does the picket fence end...?

Anyway, he kept going until I ran out of materials. I was flustered and angry, but he got the point across.

My first experience with the concept of infinity.

He died in 1961 (age 13) but I remember that conversation like it was yesterday.

[Th1onein]

38. I am sorry you lost your brother.

Why did he die so young?

[KansDem]

41. Kidney disease...

Nephrosis.

He was my best friend...

[Th1onein]

62. Oh my God. That's so tough.

I'm so sorry. It never stops hurting, I know.

Did he have an inherited disorder? Or do you even know?

[KansDem]

63. I'm really not sure...

Did he have an inherited disorder?

There's a history of other diseases in the family that I know of, but as far as a kidney disease, I really don't know.

But he was my constant companion. We went to the park together; we played on the playground equipment together; we "fought" (shoving matches) other boys together ; we rode bikes together; we "explored" the creek (undeveloped storm control project) and looked for frogs and tadpoles together; we shared a bedroom; and "yes" we both got a whipping by our stepfather when we defied his directive to stay home while he and our mom ran an errand (we went a few houses down the block to visit a friend and got back before our parents but was ratted out by our older sister when they returned home ); and we "ran away from home" together when the going got too tough (we "packed" our belongings and walked over to our church where we hung out until we felt the family missed us -- I think we just got bored!). And, he told me how you found out if a girl liked you: you have a trusted friend talk to her and ask her. I used this strategy when I reached my teens!

The last year of his life he spent in the hospital. He'd come home for a few days, then back to the hospital for a few weeks; then home for a few days, then back to the hospital for a few weeks. Even when he was home, he slept in his bed. We shared a room but it seemed like I had it all to myself.

Our mom spent every moment she could by his bedside at the hospital, so I didn't see much of him or her that year.

Yeah, "it never stops hurting."

Thanks for the sentiment!

[Th1onein]

64. I lost a son to Cystic Fibrosis.

I was so deep in my grief, I didn't think about how it affected my daughter until years later. Siblings hurt in a different way, but they never stop hurting. My son and daughter were born less than a year apart, and my daughter misses her brother so much, even fourteen years later.

[ewagner]

16. and if our Universe is a sphere...

what's outside of our sphere?//

[WovenGems]

23. E = MC2

If you are going to tell me the universe has a death date then you must explain its birth. And I can do that.
In the beginning a black hole exploded setting up a situation whereby energy could be converted into matter. Billions of years later, after countless galaxy collisions, a lone black hole now has so much matter caught that its center becomes unstable. And a brand new universe is born. Think of the universe as being like that mythical bird, the Phoenix.

[Sand Wind]

5. I always got that intuition that when there is a constant, there is ignorance from our part. Nt

[greiner3]

7. I'm thinking;

This post should be cross linked to the Science Topic forum.

I might have missed this if it was not.

[The Straight Story]

8. I might get overe there in a bit

If not, feel free to toss it there

[theHandpuppet]

9. I only wish I were bright enough...

... to truly contemplate discussions such as this. As it is, my brain tends to freeze like a deer caught in the headlights.

[Laelth]

10. k&r for exposure. n/t

-Laelth

[sulphurdunn]

12. Fred Hoyle

had major issues with the Big Bang. Ironically, he's the one who coined the phrase.

[tridim]

27. I have major issues with Fred Hoyle who thought the universe was static...

Even after Hubble proved him completely wrong.

[sulphurdunn]

35. Sure,

but he was among the first to challenge the Big Bang, and he never questioned that the universe was expanding. He did suggest that his Steady State theory was a better explanation. I always thought he was a great science fiction writer whether his theory was or not.

[Poll_Blind]

14. Do any of your SMART DUers see a relation from the OP and THIS article:

I'm not a smart DUer, so I intentionally put SMART in all caps to drive away physics dilettantes such as myself from answering.



New Theory Nixes "Dark Energy": Says Time is Disappearing from the Universe

Thank you to anyone who can give a quick comparison! This OP sounds like a more refined stab at a solution (to the Dark Matter question) than the OP I link to above. Agree, disagree?

PB

[MisterP]

19. ah, like in Michael Ende's "Momo"?

[markiv]

15. the most a person can ever learn

is some idea of how much they dont know

[davekriss]

28. That's very well put. :)

And very true, very wise.

[sakabatou]

17. Interesting

[Shankapotomus]

18. Amazing

I didn't know models could know so much about science!

[mick063]

20. I'm still a believer in big bang

I subscribe to the theory that the big bang was a result of the collision of universes and that unexplained gravity ( ie dark matter) is really the influence of another universe "bleeding" into ours. Indeed, I believe that many unexplained issues can be attributed to outside influence.

[snooper2]

22. Pretty cool, obviously no magical sky being required LOL

[BlueStreak]

24. Translation: I could be living in a universe in a piece of dirt under my own fingernail

It could happen.

[pokerfan]

29. This is too much!

Pinto: Okay. That means that our whole solar system could be, like one tiny atom in the fingernail of some other giant being?
Jennings: Mm, hmm...
Pinto: This is too much! That means... one tiny atom in my fingernail could be—
Jennings: Could be one little tiny universe.
Pinto: Could l buy some pot from you?

[napkinz]

42. Food fight!!!!!

[BlueToTheBone]

52. Or a whole universe could be in that grain of sand

or dirt! Infinite possibilities abound.

[BlueStreak]

55. It is worse than that. If space, time, and distance are basically just human inventions

then that means I could be living in several universes simultaneously. I might even be you. I might be everybody. I might be God.

[BlueToTheBone]

56. Or you are "living" nowhere except

in your mind.

[BlueStreak]

58. Maybe none of us actually exist. We are Skinner's inventions.

[caseymoz]

26. Interesting. We'll know in ten years

or a few parsecs, give and take . . .

[WovenGems]

30. As a youngster

I learned that a photon (light) had no mass yet its flight was bent by a black hole. A puzzle. I figured light must be hitchhiking. Until the nature of empty space was found I had no clue who answered the thumb out.

[Delphinus]

32. Boy,

I sure do wish I understood this better.

[brett_jv]

33. I've believed for a long time now that the Universe has simply 'always existed'.

I think that we, as humans, live in a world where 'time' appears to us as a 'real' thing, because our Earth spins at a certain rate, and circles the sun at a certain rate, and we're simply attuned and acclimated from birth to the concept of 'time' and of everything having a 'beginning' and an 'end', which we can measure against the number of 'rotations' that transpire in the meanwhile.

So, in our experience of life, on this planet, there is such a thing as 'time'. It's so integral to our existence that we consider it a 'real' thing, and we have great difficulty with a concept like 'always'. Nothing is 'always' in our world, everything begins and ends. This has led us, collectively, to come to the conclusion that the universe must've 'begun' at 'some time', right? EVERYTHING that 'is' ... had a beginning, and therefore we assume the same must be true for the universe.

It's very difficult for us to wrap our head's around the idea, and thus it seems few people have ever really seriously pondered it ... but I believe that at some point science will come to the conclusion that the totality of the evidence necessitates that the universe has simply ALWAYS been. Sure, it's 'changed over time (as we understand the word)', but it has always 'been'. It had no start, and it will have no end.

Oh, and it's also 'infinite'. There is nothing that is 'not our universe'. There's no 'outer edge', you cannot 'leave' it, and be 'somewhere else'.

Thus, our universe is both boundless, and it exists outside the concept of 'time'. Both 'temporal' and 'spatial' boundaries exist WITHIN the universe, but simply do not apply to the universe as a whole.

[Cronus Protagonist]

47. I think there likely is something outside the light cone

And that is what our universe is expanding "into", exposing ever more of what is outside the light cone, which, apparently, so far appears to be more of the same stuff.

[hootinholler]

34. Hopefully this is shitty science editing

Mass, time and length? Length??? W.T.F.?

[Motown_Johnny]

45. I assume "length" refers to any/all spacial dimensions,

but I could easily be wrong.

[ThoughtCriminal]

37. What is time again?

"time and space can be converted into one another"

So, both time and space or opium can be converted into money.

[HardTimes99]

39. LOL - Money is money (it's a drag). For some reason, I'm

heavily channeling Pink Floyd in this thread.

[reformist2]

40. When it comes to theoretical physics I only listen to Sheldon Cooper.

[HiPointDem]

43. Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum.

[Motown_Johnny]

44. I tend to be skeptical about anything that disagrees with Relativity, but....

after reading this I must admit to having an open mind about it.

I'm gonna need to mull this one over for a while.

[WovenGems]

46. And

It will run smack dab into a black hole. The only prison nobody can escape from. So, if you run the clock forwards more and more matter gets trapped. Till.......

[Motown_Johnny]

65. I don't think so.. Black holes evaporate

so even though it will take billions or trillions of years to an outside observer, black holes are not the dead end that the short story about them presents.


http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/BHfaq.html#q8

^snip^


How do black holes evaporate?
-----------------------------
This is a tough one. Back in the 1970's, Stephen Hawking came up with theoretical arguments showing that black holes are not really entirely black: due to quantum-mechanical effects, they emit radiation. The energy that produces the radiation comes from the mass of the black hole. Consequently, the black hole gradually shrinks. It turns out that the rate of radiation increases as the mass decreases, so the black hole continues to radiate more and more intensely and to shrink more and more rapidly until it presumably vanishes entirely.

[Kablooie]

48. If this theory says there are 42 universal properties, I'm getting out of here.

[jsr]

49. Pretty crappy science from a statistician

His theory can't even explain current experimental data e.g. CMB, nucleosynthesis.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

50. No big bang?

I don't know, I think it's a pretty funny show....

[Vietnameravet]

51. Quantum Republicans

Early in the twentieth century, scientists discovered an amazing property of light. In one set of circumstances light acted as if it were made of particles yet, incredibly, in different circumstances, that same light acted as if it were not a particle at all but a wave instead! They called it the Quantum Duality of Light and how light can be two different things at the same time remains one of the deepest mysteries of the universe even today.

Republicans now claim to have discovered the Quantum Duality of Tax Breaks. According to them, when taxes are reduced on middle and lower income people, without compensating layoffs and cuts, deficits will rise and the entire economy will collapse into a bottomless black hole. Amazingly, however, when taxes are reduced on the richest few, the exact opposite is true! In that case, the national deficit will be magically reduced and the economy will shine even without offsetting revenue! No need to end subsidies for corporations or close tax loopholes for the very richest few!

In truth, it's totally illogical and against all reason to believe that shifting most of the wealth to the uppermost classes benefits all the others as well. However, the fact that so many Republicans believe this to be true raises another long debated scientific possibility. Could it be that there is a Parallel Universe? Is it possible there is an Alternate Reality where some folks dwell and the “normal” rules of logic and reason do not apply?


From the Providence Journal a year or so ago

[protect our future]

53. Wow. Bookmarked for further study.

[bravenak]

54. I like this.

Science makes my head tingle.

[TeeYiYi]

57. I totally misunderstood the meaning behind ”model”...

I skipped this OP yesterday, thinking it was some beauty queen espousing her 'meaning of life' philosophy as part of a Ms. Congeniality exercise.

Boy was I wrong!

k+r+bookmarked

TYY

[Bradical79]

60. lol

Don't worry, you're not the only one!

[The Straight Story]

61. SO, uh, were you a model at one time?

[JHB]

59. Y'know, I think I'll just wait about forming an opinion on this...

...and let the people who are fully familiar with the nooks and crannies of cosmology poke at it for a few years and figure out if this guy is on to something, or if he's missing a few critical pieces.

What matters is not whether it sounds good or is aesthetically pleasing, but if it holds up under scrutiny. And that's going to take a while.