"They were part of a black family that recently moved next door and had caused nothing but trouble."

[Robb]

Surveillance video shows Milwaukee man, 76, shooting neighbor boy, 13, in the chest

MILWAUKEE — A Milwaukee man’s own surveillance cameras show him confronting a 13-year-old neighbor boy on a sidewalk outside of their houses, pointing a gun at the teen and firing into his chest from a few feet away.

The wounded teen flees away from the cameras’ view and collapses in the street where his mother, according to her testimony, held him as he took his last breath.

(snip)

Martinez’s partner, Michael Urbaniak, testified that he and Martinez placed Spooner in the back of a squad car while they investigated the scene. While being detained, Spooner commented that he had reached his breaking point and that his house had been broken into two days earlier, Urbaniak said.

The officer said Spooner claimed he knew the culprits were the kids who lived next door, and that they were part of a black family that recently moved next door and had caused nothing but trouble. Spooner is white.

Read More: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/surveillance-video-shows-milwaukee-man-76-shooting-neighbor-boy-13-in-the-chest/2013/07/16/fbb97d24-ee76-11e2-bb32-725c8351a69e_story.html?tid=pm_pop

[Scuba]

1. It aint just Florida.

I'll bet Charlie Sykes is calling Spooner a hero.

[AlbertCat]

39. It aint just Florida.

Yeah.... where are all those "We let the traitors off easy 150 years ago" comments?

[bvar22]

63. Unlike Florida,

in Wisconsin, this Shooter was handcuffed, arrested, taken to jail, and interrogated.

Unlike Florida, this Shooter was treated as a Murder Suspect by the Police,
and the State began building a case for prosecution [font]immediately[/font].

I haven't been able to determine how long he was held, if he has been arraigned, or if he has been released on bail.

[Sissyk]

73. I do believe he was convicted

of murder today! Good for Wisconsin!

[ZombieHorde]

74. That is a pretty big difference, in my opinion. nt

[ecstatic]

82. Not so fast...

I just read this:

"However the horror did not end there. It was just beginning. Patricia Larry, Darius’ mom was taken into police custody for several hours. She was not allowed to stay with him, hold his hand or say goodbye. The Milwaukee Police victimized her a second time and took these precious moments from her with no rational explanation to satisfy her or the community. Larry was not given any information nor able to see her other family which if given time, Spooner would have killed too. Milwaukee Police in their infinite wisdom added to this parent’s worst nightmare. They also decided to search her home. WHY??? They tore it up and ripped apart anything that was not nailed down.

“Clothes were pulled out of the closet, ceiling tiles were pulled out of the ceiling, furniture was turned upside down,” he said. “Family members that I spoke to directly said they thought that a fight or something had broken out in the home.”

That was one year ago today and not one apology, not a firing, nor any policy changes were made. Darius’ death and his mother and family’s mistreatment have not changed anything in the Milwaukee Police Department nor do they care. Another family victimized not only by a racist murderer but also a justice system sworn to protect us.

http://themilwaukeedrum.com/2013/05/31/remembering-darius-simmons/

But you're right, they did handle things a lot better than Florida, but they still treated the victim and his family like they were criminals.

[DirkGently]

2. Jesus Christ. n/t

[Blue_Tires]

3. So who's the first DUer who will chime in with the 'mitigating circumstances?'

[el_bryanto]

4. I think it's a person named Blue_Tires. nt

[alittlelark]

8. +1

[JustAnotherGen]

5. Hope my

Comes through . . .

Well - Robb - you DO know don't you that the 13 year old was up to no good - he was no angel? I mean - he probably picked his nose once and that alone makes him a 'bad apple' and with NO doubt was the teenager that robbed the murdering SOB's home.

Just thought I'd get to it before the Pro Georgie Greek Chorus did.


No though on that murdering SOB description.

[rhett o rick]

9. He probably told someone once that he wanted to be a bad-ass.

What 13 boy hasnt?

[JustAnotherGen]

12. great point!

But - if you are a young black 13 year old boy - that dooms you to the 'thug' list forever. . . in certain circles.

[Just Saying]

6. Wow.

I don't even know what to say anymore. What are we to do in our nation full of racists with guns?

[Orrex]

10. Best way to stop a bad racist with a gun is a good racist with a gun, I guess.

[The Wielding Truth]

34. Let's just have one or two black vigilantes "stand their ground" and the law will disappear.

Open season on whites, as it will be seem on the right, will not be tolerated. As long as the law stands any race can use it. The thought of guns in the hands of "Minorities" will scare the racists out of their minds.

What a mistake this law is! Total foolishness!

[Orrex]

36. It would be interesting to see how the media would spin it

"Assailant," "attacker," "gunman," "armed vigilante," etc.

But when it's a white (or whitish) male, he's a "neighborhood watch captain."

[etherealtruth]

38. Somehow ... I don't think a black man would ever actually be covered by the law

Especially if the victim was not black

[CakeGrrl]

56. True, assuming the black SYG defendant made it alive to court

rather than being killed while being apprehended or in police custody, there would likely be a conviction.

The question, though: Do profiling gun enthusiasts want to put the law to the test if there's a risk they could end up on Trayvon's side of the situation?

[leftyohiolib]

40. that's what got ronnie raygun to end open carry in california. the black panthers started walking

around armed, it made white people nervous.

[The Wielding Truth]

45. Exactly.

[tularetom]

52. Here's one of the images that scared the shit out of white Californians

They out so much pressure on Ronnie he forgot he was a 2nd Amendment supporter.

This is an interesting article dealing with armed African Americans:

http://obrag.org/?p=19878

[leftyohiolib]

65. there needs to be alot more of this - you want to end syg, there's the answer

[calimary]

51. I just can't believe what's going down in this country.

It's as though these accursed Stand Your Ground laws have, in effect, allowed open season to be declared, in a COMPLETELY ARBITRARY WAY, against anyone whose looks you don't like. If you think they look like nogoodniks then you're authorized to take matters into your own hands. I thought the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing was the governing principle across the board. But these laws wind up deputizing people into being their own self-anointed/self-appointed judge-jury-executioner, singlehandedly. Unilaterally. HAH - reminds me of the blight on America that the theory of the unitary executive was allowed to play out under bush/cheney. Well - Stand Your Ground laws allow you to become your very own bush/cheney, then. They've been taken WAY too far, to the point where they're now creating multiple menaces to society. Giving "rights" to loose cannons everywhere!

THAT, THERE, should be unconstitutional on its face, and swatted down like the nuisance mosquito flying around your face on a hot night. It denies due process. It denies an arbitrarily-singled-out group of people the most basic foundation of American justice - innocent until proven guilty. It is THE WORST of us. And it sure as hell brings out that WORST of us.

For those who insist that "guns aren't the problem! People are the problem," all I can offer in response is that if people are the problem, they're a BIGGER and deadlier problem when they have guns.

And for all the gunners out there and the Second Amendment apologists - I say to you - OKAY THEN. It's on YOU. GET YOUR ASSES IN GEAR AND FIX THIS PROBLEM. AND FIX IT NOW!!!! Seize the leadership this gives you and do something beneficial for ALL of society beyond just your fellow paranoiacs, for a change! Or else the rest of us will find a way to cut through your crap and your obstructionism and and your dawdling and your excuse-making and fix it for you. If you refuse to act, then we'll have to.

Sometimes, as a mom, I find myself boiling down issues like this to some very simple basics. If you can't play nice, mom has to take your toys away from you and send you to your room for awhile perhaps to think it over as to how big a snot nose or brat-child you're being, or how reprehensible your behavior is, or how utterly indefensible and irrational and nonsensical your position is. I think we've reached that point here.

Or put it this way. Aren't we all just peachy-keen happy and comfy-cozy with the idea that the manifestly irrational, incredibly screwed-up, and deeply prejudiced "Georgie" got his gun back? Feelin' safer now, America?

[Orrex]

7. Asshole has security cameras but decided to murder this child instead?

Instead of calling the cops with his evidence of a break-in?

WTF?


Of course, there are those on DU who argue that it's fine to kill someone who's stealing your property, so perhaps they would contend that Spooner was justified.

[Robb]

16. What? The victim should just stand by and call police and hope for the best?

Better to be safe than sorry!

[NYC_SKP]

42. Um, right. Yes, do go on...

ETA details. This was after three prior thefts.

Explain how this case of this poor child being shot by a bigot neighbor is exactly like a business owner confronting two thieves inside his fenced materials yard at 3:00 stealing rolls of copper:

Hall was awakened by an alarm shortly after 3 a.m. When he went outside, Page said, he saw Walker and another man, Brandon Joe Hanks, pushing away rolls of copper.

Hall told the men to stop, Page said, at which point Walker charged at him. That’s when Hall fired.

Hall Well & Plumbing had been burglarized three times in the past four months. Last week about $1,600 worth of copper was stolen. Page said Hall was preparing to put up a fence and that the alarm was installed because of the recent burglaries.

“He chose to step outside to see what was going on and then came back,” Page said. “His wife had notified the 911 system, and then he went back out… but he still had the right to protect himself.

So many parallels!

Do go on about that, Robb...

[Robb]

62. Which one had the Mossberg shotgun?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022002711#post34

[NYC_SKP]

64. More obfuscation and misdirection, avoiding an answer to the original question, Robb...

...and all on display for the community to see.

A failed attempt at what, I don't know, but for the others, my mossberg post was in protest of the decision by admins to allow gun posts in GD.

Skinner asked me to self-delete so I did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2002817

Now about the parallels between your OP and the link you posted above to my reply about the man who shot one of two thieves after three thefts in four months of his business equipment, who's fence wasn't finished.

How about those, Robb?

[Robb]

66. Two days after Sandy Hook you posted that.

I'm not an expert; were the bodies of those children still warm while you extolled the virtues of the Mossberg shotgun for home defense?

I'm guessing no.

[NYC_SKP]

67. As you know, the context for that post is no longer visible on DU. It's pointless to argue.

I've explained it to you before and I only post this in case others read it.

I posted the Mossberg shotgun OP in direct protest of the decision to let guns into GD.

I stand by that protestation and a reasonable person would have, at that time, read the context: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022002711#post34

The context is gone and naturally the post is as well.

Why you are so attached to the Mossberg post, Robb, is confusing to me given the context of your OP and your links to replies I've made in the past.

You still can't or won't draw the parallel between the sad murder in your OP and the man who shot and killed one of two invaders on his property.

[Robb]

68. Baloney.

You got caught flying your gun flag in the wake of a slaughter. And got universally slammed for it. And self-deleted, but not before your re-post of the offending OP was hidden. And saved for posterity.

Between that and your antics in the host forum, it still amazes me you're tolerated. But you are, so have at it.

[NYC_SKP]

69. More obfuscation and misdirection, avoiding an answer to the original question, Robb...

Why all these links to my replies in other posts? It seems a bit odd.

I never even replied to this OP until you posted a link to a reply I made about another, justifiable shooting, and you still haven't answered my question about where the parallels are supposed to be.

Pulling up all these links to replies I've made, Robb, and posting them when I hadn't even replied to you, seems an unusual thing to do on a discussion board.

But you go ahead, I don't need to know why you do it, I guess.

[Robb]

70. The nature of your character is revealed in your posts.

It is illuminating when trying to determine what degree of sincerity one should assume you present when posting on matters of guns.

My opinion on the matter is unchanged.

[NYC_SKP]

71. As is yours, Robb. This very thread, your own OP and replies, are quite revealing. (nt)

[Robb]

72. Gun enthusiasts are understandably bothered

...when people notice what they're really supporting.

[Rex]

76. I cannot believe you two are still fighitng over this.

nt.

[uponit7771]

49. please continue

[hatrack]

58. Let's see, three hours and counting

Are you also patiently waiting?

[sinkingfeeling]

11. Another law-abiding legal gun owner.

[mstinamotorcity2]

13. He is not the first, and won't be the last.

Personally just what would a person do when you stand and watch your child gunned down from the perception of being a thief. This man fired a gun twice. If he felt like someone from that woman's home had his home broken into maybe he should have just asked. Saw the biggest fight between my neighbor who lived next door and woman across the street. Woman next door had a party. Some guest of the party left and decided they need a ride home so they attempted to take unlawful possession of the vehicle across the street in the driveway. But party was so loud even at 2 am in the morning neighbors were up. the woman was laying in her bed looking out her upstairs window and watched them come out the door and over to her vehicle and try and steal it. Her husband came out shooting. When it was all over the next morning old girl next door was getting her ass whipped for not telling who the subjects were. Since I worked with the woman across the street I was able to rescue the next door neighbor from possibly ending up in a hospital.
I will be glad when we stop turning these guns on each other and start turning the levers at the ballot box to hold weapon manufactures accountable for flooding these communities with all these weapons and creating war like conditions on the streets of America.

[Myrina]

14. Milwaukee is and has been one of the most racially segregated cities ...

... I remember calling different classified ads re: apartments in the late 80's and I shit you not, one guy who answered the phone said, after a few minutes of chat about the unit "You sound white. I'm not gonna rent to you, you'll get killed here." and hung up on me.

[SCVDem]

32. I left in 73

'Jokes' like this were common.

What's the longest bridge in America?
The Sixth Street viaduct.
It connects Poland and Africa.

Milwaukee blacks live on the north side and whites on the south.
Hispanic background and misc poor on the eastside and the rich on the west.

I didn't meet other people of color until I joined the service.

I wasn't allowed to have Hank Aaron as a hero or to buy a Bill Cosby album.

I am happy in California diversity and could never go back to live.

Even a bad pool shot gets referred to as shooting ni**er pool.

Sorry Wisconsin. You're a nice state if not for the people.

[Half-Century Man]

15. Clear case of First Degree Homicide

Clear case of racism.
Ample proof of planning.
A violent hate crime against a child in a state with no death penalty done by a person not likely to live very long.

As this old fuckstick's life draws to it's bitter wasted end, he evilly takes a child's life to give his last "fuck you" to a world who ignored him as the insignificant prick he is.

[geardaddy]

25. +1000

[AgingAmerican]

29. Yep

This is flat out murder. No self defense or defending property.

[Blue_Tires]

50. +1

[booley]

17. Don't want to make it seem this isn't a horrible crime but

Martinez’s partner, Michael Urbaniak, testified that he and Martinez placed Spooner in the back of a squad car while they investigated the scene.

Isn't that at least a sign of progress?

How long before Zimmerman was even charged?

[AtheistCrusader]

18. Looks like he's going to die in jail.

How awful for the parents.

[sakabatou]

19. Will these motherfuckers stop playing cop?!

[wryter2000]

21. Not as long as they have their guns

Take the gun away, and they'll stay inside and wait for the police.

[MNBrewer]

27. Are the cops any better?

Really?

[sakabatou]

28. Hell if know

[LittleGirl]

20. speechless. nt

[EC]

22. He's another one of those creepy crazy old men

that everyone thinks is crazy but won't do anything about.

[robert87]

23. This is despicable

And this will continue to happen until we can diminish this insane gun culture in society.

[SHRED]

24. Spooner will now know what real "trouble" is

[L0oniX]

26. Boycott MILWAUKEE NOW!

That's right ...it's really stupid!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

37. Only if the family had to fight the city for two months to get an arrest.

[okieinpain]

46. hell how many days did it take for

Them to tell the martin family they had trayvons body.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

48. It wasn't like it was anyone "IMPORTANT"....

Bet if it was a bank president they would have been all over it.

[AgingAmerican]

30. I live next door to a black family

The kids are teens now and we have never had any issues. They are super polite now just like they were when they were little.

People will treat you with respect, if you treat them with respect. If you treat them as 'suspects' and 'suspicious' then they won't respect you very much either.

[RedRocco]

31. didn't this happen last year?

[JHB]

33. Yes. Article liked at OP appears to be an update of his trial (n/t)

[Spitfire of ATJ]

35. Wanna bet this guy was a FOX "News" fan?

[SleeplessinSoCal]

44. The Fox News Channel ought to be sued out of business

Think of the way they feed an armed nation of angry white guys daily doses of rage fuel.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

47. I really believe it will vanish when Murdock dies.

[Hekate]

57. How I wish I could believe that, but there's so much money in his media empire

>sigh< Too evil to die.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

60. FOX "News" hurts the rest of the Fox Entertainment franchise....

The board of directors only lets that nonsense go on because Murdock has a majority share. It's his personal pet cause but it hurts the media empire in general to be associated with the likes of Hannity.

Don't get me wrong, people like that will still be out there but will no longer be able to claim legitimacy under the name of the company that produced things like Star Wars and further back could boast giving the world Marilyn Monroe and Shirley Temple.

They will end up like Glenn Beck. Spewing their crap into a cheap camera on a tripod.

[Hekate]

61. I do hope you are right. nt

[SleeplessinSoCal]

77. Somebody else will come along. It makes too much money.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

78. It really doesn't. They're demographic is shrinking.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

79. I hope so. Hope there isn't an automatic geezer gene that makes you turn on that channel.

[IrishAyes]

41. $1M

Safe bet.

[IrishAyes]

43. Tragically,

This reminds me of something that happened within the last year or so. Some guy shot a black teenage boy whose only crime was to knock politely on his door because he was doing a school project of some kind. Not that it's every any excuse, but there'd been no neighborhood trouble of any sort. Just the 'wrong' color kid politely knocking at your front door. In daylight, may I add.

[stranger81]

83. Reminds me of the Yoshihiro Hattori case out of Louisiana in the early 90's.

Exchange student from Japan shows up at wrong address for a Halloween party and rings the doorbell. Racist asshole answers the door, tells him to "freeze" -- an English term Hattori didn't understand -- then blew him away at point blank range.

Poor kid was 16 years old.

[JI7]

84. in that case the old guy was actually sorry and gave up his gun

but i think this was around the time of "japanese are taking over" and other racism so he was acquitted .

[stranger81]

85. Wow . . . . Didn't realize he gave up his gun. Good for him.

I remember him getting acquitted and the huge outcry in Japan.

[Laffy Kat]

53. We will be seeing a lot more of this now. n/t

[postulater]

54. Is this a hate crime yet?

[Kennah]

80. I daresay had he not been convicted ...

... that there would have been grounds for DOJ to bring federal hate crimes charges.

[djean111]

55. They just put him in the back of a squad car while they investigated? WTF?

[Blue_Tires]

75. why wouldn't they?

you wouldn't want him to flee or contaminate the crime scene...

[dembotoz]

59. he will be tried in milwaukee county--think his goose is cooked--if he gets a change of venue to

Ozaukee or Washington county and perhaps Waukesha --all bets would be off

[ecstatic]

81. I can't help but wonder what would have happened

if it had not been captured on camera. I wonder if he would have been acquitted too. What an incredibly sad story!