How would Americans respond to "Greek like" austerity?

[mick063]

a) Demonstrations that approximate #occupy in size and scope.
b) Thousands of arrests, lots of tear gas, hundreds injured, peristent news coverage.
c) Martial Law, curfews, wide spread crime, some attributed loss of life.
d) Full scale civil war (ie. Syria)

Which one is closest?

[Scootaloo]

1. Pretty much like the Greeks are responding

Rage seems to be the common reaction EVERYWHERE this shit is attempted. And, if you ask me... It's appropriate. Peaceful protest works when you're dealing with a situation that can be peacefully resolved. Economic cleansing, like its big brother ethnic cleansing, is not such a situation.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

2. we'll find out soon enough

the money will run out some day...it is inevitable.

sP

[BOHICA12]

15. So True ... it's coming. nt

[Joe Shlabotnik]

3. not sure, but the one thing I noticed

while watching coverage of Greece the other day was that: 100000 people protested, 45 buildings were on fire, 70+ police officers were injured, BUT there were under 200 arrests. THAT would not be the case here guaranteed! If 500 people can be arrested for trying to cross a bridge in NYC, or disperse after a Rally in Oakland, then you could bet the crackdown would be extreme.

[magical thyme]

8. not necessarily

Arrest depends on having the police on your side.

The cutbacks in Greece are so severe they include a large number of police. When your co-workers are out of work and on the other side -- and you fear for your own job -- that changes things a bit.

Of course, our government would just turn to Blackwater and drones. Yet the numbers of working private army versus unemployed former public police, national guard, etc. just might not work in their favor.

[Lasher]

4. We might find out before much longer.

This is a global assault to turn the middle class into an underclass.

[abowsh]

9. Well if we continue spending with no tax increses

It will be here soon enough. Both Democrats and Republicans are throwing us down the debt hole. People don't seem to realize that things don't get like Greece slowly and gradually. There is usually a tipping point that sends everything crashing. If we continue deficits at the levels of the last decade, we will be Greece before 2020 (or even 2016).

[Lasher]

25. I agree.

All of the Bush/Obama tax cuts must expire. These payroll tax cuts are adding to our debt too. I guess we need to get out of the Great Recession somehow but continuing tax cuts are digging the debt hole deeper.

I don't see anything but token cuts (if any) to our military, so we'll probably keep wasting money there. Watch for significant cuts to domestic social programs. That's how you can tell when we're Greece.

[abelenkpe]

5. A few people would protest

And fox news would call them hippies.

[Arctic Dave]

6. Re-runs of American Idol?

Turn up the volume and less commercials.

[mmonk]

7. We'll have to wait and see.

The difference between Americans and Greeks is that Greeks and Europeans protest their condition while Americans believe in propaganda and blame each other the way the 1% wants and directs.

[truth2power]

10. Economics Prof. Richard Wolff says there's a civil war brewing in Greece...

"that is a prefiguration of what's going to happen elsewhere."

Check it out on his weekly economic update on radio WBAI for Feb 18.

His discussion on this goes from about 10:00 to 13:00.

http://www.rdwolff.com/content/economic-update-wbai-feb-18th-2012

[abowsh]

12. There will be no civil war

Greece has a few months left before they must make a big decision: be a member of the Euro and accept major austerity measures, or default their debt create their own currency and start over. Staying in the euro has so many advantages, but it will come with some pain in the short-term. Not to mention that Turkey is pressuring Greece to stay in the euro for geographical reasons.

But this indecisiveness cannot continue forever, they will make a decision by summer.

[izquierdista]

11. e) Remain willfully ignorant...

...of the big red, white, and blue dick that's being shoved up their assholes every day.

[NNN0LHI]

13. When my family was going through "Greek like" austerity most Americans took it pretty well

http://www.sociology.org/content/vol003.004/thomas.html  

In order to reduce corporate taxes, it was necessary to reduce the size of the welfare state. This objective was carried out by the Reagan administration (Abramovitz, 1992). After taking office in 1981, the administration set out on a course to alter the (relatively) labor sensitive political economy to be more business friendly. Reagan appointed anti-union officials to the National Labor Relations Board, "implicitly {granting} employers permission to revive long shunned anti-union practices: decertifying unions, outsourcing production, and hiring permanent replacements for striking workers" (102). Reagan himself pursued such a policy when he fired eleven thousand striking air traffic controllers in 1981. Regulations designed to protect the environment , worker safety, and consumer rights were summarily decried as unnecessary government meddling in the marketplace (Abramovitz, 1992; Barlett and Steele, 1996). Programs designed to help the poor were also characterized as "big government," and the people who utilized such programs were often stigmatized as lazy or even criminal. With the help of both political parties, the administration drastically cut social welfare spending and the budgets of many regulatory agencies.

The new emphasis was on "supply side" economics, which essentially "blamed the nation's ills on 'big government' and called for lower taxes, reduced federal spending (military exempted), fewer government regulations, and more private sector initiatives " (Abramovitz, 1992, 101). Thus, to effect a change in the political economy, Reagan was able to win major concessions regarding social policy that continue today. By taking away the safety net, the working class was effectively neutralized: workers no longer had the freedom to strike against their employers or depend upon the social welfare system as a means of living until finding employment. Business was thus free to lower wages, benefits, and the length of contracts. The overall result was that the average income for the average American dropped even as the average number of hours at work increased (Barlett and Steele, 1996; Schor, 1992).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There were no demonstrations, arrests, martial law or curfews. No civil war either.

Matter of fact a lot of mt fellow Americans were doing everything they could do to make it worse on everyone including themselves during that time. Now, if you mean what will happen when more people start receiving the same treatment as I did, well, we will just have to see how that turns out.

But if you are looking for my personal opinion I don't hold out much hope. Learned my lesson when George W. Bush had a +90% approval rating. Right then and there I realized that more than 9 out of 10 people I see walking down the street is a complete idiot. That is troubling.

Don

[Edweird]

14. I suspect 'none of the above'. Americans (on the whole) are a bunch of pretentious posers.

To object would reveal that they aren't as well off as they want their friends, neighbors and colleagues to see them so they will instead scramble frantically in a desperate attempt to maintain their facade while drowning privately. The fakers betray their fellow citizens. OWS is awesome - but it is the exception not the rule. I wish we were more 'Greek'.

[sendero]

16. One thing is for sure..

... we will find out within the next 10 years.

[woo me with science]

17. It will be here very soon. nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. None of the above

[Zalatix]

19. OH LOOK! Snooki is pregnant! Justin Bieber in a Twitter pissing match! BIRTH CONTROL!!

If any of that is NOT true, they'll MAKE it true - just to distract the people.

[saras]

20. Until America's military runs out of money, there's no hope of that here.

If the police fail, the military will replace them. They have the people, the weapons, and the willpower to make us pay a hundred times over for any organized rebellion, and that's what they would do - not try to "control" it, just obliterate it, and let the rest of the country decide whether it's worth it or not.

Does anyone have any convincing reasons why they would NOT use nukes if they felt them to be "called for" (i.e. a successful major rebellion)?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. Given that we have citizen soldiers, why are you so sure they with fire upon or nuke

fellow citizens? Sounds like blind prejudice on your part.

[Zalatix]

28. They've done it before. The 19th century labor strikes, Kent State, etc.

Soldiers will kill whoever their commanders tell them to. Fact of history, worldwide.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

29. With nukes?

Also how about a more recent and relevant examples

[Zalatix]

30. nukes unlikely, but they will fire upon civilians, which was specifically mentioned

I really don't need "more recent" examples since "more recent" can practically mean anything. History has repeatedly shown, in America, that law enforcement and militia alike will open fire on demonstrators. You can't discount that in a country where Martial Law can be declared.

That said, there are some recent examples, depending on your definition of recent: Waco and Ruby Ridge. In Ruby Ridge law enforcement agents shot and killed an unarmed woman who was holding a baby in her arms. I don't care what political party you sign onto, that right there was tragic and unnecessary.

All these thugs with guns need is an order to shoot. Or an excuse in lieu of an order.

[jwirr]

34. Especially if they finished developing the neutron bomb that was started in the late 50s. Kills

people but does not hurt infrastructure.

[shcrane71]

22. There's really not much austerity that the federal government can get out of Americans.

As the saying goes, you can't get blood out of turnip. What government services will be denied Americans under austerity measures? Will the number of incarcerated go down? Will Medicaid and Medicare payments decrease? Hell, Americans are used to having bake sales to pay for medicinal services. Most Americans do without preventative medicine. And Grandma and Grandpa have been being convinced that their "quality of life" isn't there any more, and have been dying in droves from morphine "complications" associated with pneumonia -- *nudge* *nudge* *wink* *wink*.

Maybe we'll have to retire later in order to get Social Security. Oh wait, they already raised it to 67 -- many Americans won't make it to this age -- WOOHOO! More money for the rest of us. Maybe we can privatize Social Security? Now there's an austerity measure that Wall Street can get behind! But those poor, poor souls on Wall Street sure have been getting some bad press because they've been a little greedy, and shifty. Pshaw... Greed is Good.

I guess Americans could implement austerity measures on government employees and contracts, but most of those are held by military contractors. The military is a sacred cow... can't touch that.

hmmmm... maybe America could do with spending less on her infrastructure. I mean Detroit and New Orleans have almost been completely decimated. If we just quit repairing bridges, roads, levees, then cities will crumble, burn, and flood, and that's less money we have to spend in trying to keep those cities up.

Maybe the government could cut the earned income tax credit? That should make us poor Americans pay for our upkeep. That'll help. What else could be done to poor Americans (besides NOT providing health care, social services, infrastructure while increasing incarceration rates) to enrich our government? Hell, we get so little from our tax dollars. I'm surprised more Americans aren't emigrating.

[Bragi]

24. Some very good points there /nt

[Bragi]

23. I fear this reaction:

Half the adult population would support the cuts, despite any adverse impact on themselves and their families. (the GOP and the hopelessly brainwashed)

Of the remaining half:

- 1% would participate in a protest, leading to their arrest and harsh treatment by police as a warning to others; (the vanguard)

- 24% would like to do something in response, but going to a protest just isn't on for them, what with all the arrests and harsh treatment; (the scared); and

- 75% of austerity non-supporters would figure it's complicated and doesn't matter to their lives anyway, and would continue to just sit in their mortgage-underwater basements enjoying new episodes of the Voice. (the isolated)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. We ARE isolated compared to Greeks

In traditional Old World cities, you have established neighborhoods that are like urban villages, with families living in the same neighborhoods for generations, patronizing the same locally owned shops, spending their leisure in the same cafes and bars.

Compare that with Americans living in exurban subdivisions with no non-chain businesses available and no natural gathering places (except school sports and fundamentalist megachurches) who spend a lot of time in their cars, commuting to work or shopping, listening to the radio, coming home exhausted, and vegging out in front of the TV, which tells them that brainless TV personalities are the most important people in the world.

One of my online friends has written an article about how suburban life (and about half of Americans now live in suburbs) encourages isolation and apathy. It's from 2001, but it's still true.

http://www.newcolonist.com/rr11.html

[Bragi]

27. Agreed: Isolation is HUGE obstacle to political action

I've bookmarked your friends article for later perusal. Thanks.

[The Genealogist]

31. Suburban American Isolation

I have not read the article, but I do have my own observations. There are subtle ways that Americans have become isolated from their neighbors. Look at how homes are laid out, on the outside. Older neighborhoods seem to have smaller back yards, larger front yards, and and front porch. Homes faced out to the world. Today, homes seem to have bigger back yards, smaller front yards, and little to no porches; porches have given way to back decks. More modern American homes are inward-looking. People want privacy. I only know a couple of my neighbors, and they are barely acquaintances. We borrow things from each other, we speak cordially but briefly when we speak to each other. When I was growing up, I could tell you who lived in every house on my street, which was over a half mile long. Growing up, I lived in a "suburban" situation; I was outside the "city" of Springfield, MO and any other town, but I went to Springfield schools and we shopped and did business in Springfield. That neighborhood is still outside of any municipal boundaries, but just barely. Today, I live in Springfield, but in a newer part of the city, and one that is less than a mile from the municipal borders.

[suffragette]

32. Very good points here Lydia

Would make a great OP imho.

[Cherchez la Femme]

33. A, B, and if oppressed enough

by the police/sheriffs/National Guard, C could be extremely possible; as much as I'd hate to see that.
Our government has shown for years it is definitely no friend of the average citizen.

[jeanpalmer]

35. There would have to be a collapse of the economy

and jobs for dissent to reach a critical threshhold. Probably 30% unemployment. That's why the Fed is furiously trying to inflate this thing again just to avoid that possibility.

So long as unemployment remains in the 15%-20% range, the policy makers and media will be successful in marginalizing any dissent. Just like they've done with OWS, who are portrayed as a bunch of lefty cranks.

The young where unemployment is 45% in the 17-29 age group offer fertile ground for mass dissent. But they have no where to turn for organization and support. Neither party supports them.

If there is dissent on a large scale, it will be crushed, like in Egypt and Syria. Make no mistake about. The establishment will not tolerate that kind of threat. And will use any means to crush it. Think back to the anti-war movement of the late '60's early '70's. It was huge and well-organized. But the establishment did not tolerate it, used "law and order" to suppress it. Same thing would happen now. Resisters would be branded as criminals. NATO would not fund freedom fighters or resistance groups in the US or seek regime change no matter how brutal the US regime became.