I Need Some Help With A Definition Of A Word...

[ChiciB1]

I know there must be tapes of Rachel Jenteal's testimony during the GZ trial, but I really didn't check them out at the time. Now I would like to listen to some parts of it, not just read the transcript because of an argument I had with my sister.

While she feels that it was more about Trayvon being on trial rather than "Georgie" and she also feels that had GZ stayed in his truck Trayvon would not have died. In short, she thinks Trayvon was murdered as I do myself.

But, when it comes to politics and/or religion we are very far apart. She lives in TX, is pretty much a fundamentalist and listens to talk radio and Faux news. I live in Florida, am an agnostic or perhaps an atheist and am probably more liberal than many here at DU. I read a lot and do more research regarding news rather than just taking one person's or one outlet view point.

So here's the question. We were talking about Jenteal's testimony and she said that it probably hurt her because of things she said that the jurors didn't understand. One word in particular came up. The word "cracker" which she said was "cracka" that to her was reverse discrimination from when it came to defining GZ. We didn't actually argue, because I simply said I wasn't sure exactly how she said it, or even if "cracka" meant something else.

We are both white (obviously) but to me what Rachel said was ok anyway because actually GZ made some racial comments of his own under his breath. I'm sure most here know what comments I'm talking about.

So, what does "cracker" mean to anyone here, and is the word "cracka" just how she pronounced "cracker" or does it have a deeper meaning? My interpretation of cracker used to define a person was that they were white.

[Duer 157099]

1. She told Piers Morgan that it meant

a wannabe cop type of guy, regardless of race.

That wouldn't be my definition, but she's in a better position to know what she and her friends mean. I can only accept what she says, she has no reason to lie imho.

PS: and actually that definition makes sense, if you think about one of the original meanings of that term, a reference perhaps to "cracking" a whip. No doubt security types/cops do that sort of thing methaphorically.

[mstinamotorcity2]

25. Your second perception is

more in line with what it means here. A white man in some authority real or imagined. That's as close as I can get without all the ins and outs. when I say here I mean Michigan.

[darkangel218]

2. Its not necessarily racist, alot of African American young people use it , just like whites say bro,

or some other name. Or like they call each other the n word. Its in the vocabulary. ive heard it quiet often while living in Miami, and I wouldn't make a big deal out of it.

just my 2 cents.

[sarisataka]

8. I would disagree

a term is not conditionally racist when speaking of a different race. It either is racist/or insulting or it is not.

As has been pointed out, words are not cause for shooting so whether Trayvon said it is irrelevant to the verdict.

[ChiciB1]

16. I Could Not Agree More...

What she said should not be given or have given any weight as to what really happened.

I KNOW what I think, and I didn't need any particular word to explain it. It's just my sister's way of putting a different spin on a minor fact.

I appreciate the help.

[ChiciB1]

9. I Was Thinking The Same Myself...

I have no problem with what she said, but for some reason my sister felt she was calling GZ a "crack head" or something. Her point was that Rachel didn't know anything about GZ. Which I then said it went both ways because of the words out of GZ's mouth were fairly clear.

Knowing my sister, even though she couldn't ignore the obvious, she tends to add little tidbits where she can to make what liberals say as more inflammatory.

I just wasn't aware there was any real distinction. Still it's fine with me whatever the interpretation. I feel the case was racially loaded anyway.

[ZombieHorde]

26. Did black people call each other "cracker" or "cracka?" nt

[darkangel218]

28. No, ive heard black kids calling their white friends cracker in college (MDC)

I personally don't consider it racist.

[Wait Wut]

3. Doesn't matter.

The word, whether 'cracker' or 'cracka' is not what killed Trayvon Martin. Ask your sister if murdering someone based on a word spoken to a friend on a cell phone, that was not heard by the killer, is acceptable.

FWIW, 'cracker' and 'cracka' have both meant the same in the past. A white person. Whether the meaning has changed over the past few years, I don't know. Doesn't seem like it has: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cracka

[ChiciB1]

17. Thanks For The Link... n/t

[dipsydoodle]

4. Lots of meanings

and the only person who can tell you what they meant is the person who said it.

[Jenoch]

5. She apparently believes that

'cracka' and 'cracker' have different meanings. I didn't catch all of her points on the definition however. I only heard Zimmerman refer to Martin as an effin' 'punk'. So far, I have not been convinced that 'punk' is a racial slur.

[gollygee]

6. The concept of reverse discrimination is stupid

"Cracka" is the same as "cracker" and means a white person in possession of a whip to crack - or whip - at black people. At least that's my understanding.

But white people haven't faced the same system of discrimination and oppression over centuries in this country that black people have, so the word is not as bad and is not parallel to the n word or whatever else you're thinking it relates to.

[ChiciB1]

18. FOR SURE!! n/t

[polichick]

7. Growing up in Florida, the term was used for native Floridians...

especially those who were rednecks. Both blacks and whites used the term "cracker."

[Blue_Tires]

10. Ironically, IIRC the term was originally used to describe a person from Georgia

Who could forget the famous "Atlanta Crackers" of baseball lore?

[polichick]

15. That's interesting! Maybe that's why people often...

tacked on the state name, as in "Florida Cracker."

[marions ghost]

39. that's my interpretation too

coming from the mid-Atlantic South, I always heard "cracker" as going with "Florida"--as in he's a Florida Cracker. A term for white Florida native from the rural areas or swamps. Certainly nothing to do with drugs, not whips either I don't think.

This is what WIKI has & it's how I see it:

Florida cracker refers to original colonial-era English and American pioneer settlers of what is now the U.S. state of Florida, and their descendants. The first of these arrived in 1763 when Spain traded Florida to Great Britain.

Historical usage

The term "cracker" was in use during the Elizabethan era to describe braggarts. The original root of this is the Middle English word crack meaning "entertaining conversation" (One may be said to "crack" a joke); this term and the Gaelicized spelling "craic" are still in use in Northern England, Ireland and Scotland. It is documented in William Shakespeare's King John (1595): "What cracker is this ... that deafes our ears / With this abundance of superfluous breath?"

By the 1760s the English, both at home and in the American colonies, applied the term “cracker” to Scots-Irish and English American settlers of the remote southern back country, as noted in a passage from a letter to the Earl of Dartmouth: "I should explain to your Lordship what is meant by Crackers; a name they have got from being great boasters; they are a lawless set of rascalls on the frontiers of Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, and Georgia, who often change their places of abode." The word was later associated with the cowboys of Georgia and Florida, many of them descendants of those early frontiersmen.
------
The term is used as a proud or jocular self-description. Since the huge influx of new residents into Florida from the northern parts of the United States and from Mexico and Latin America in the late 20th and early 21st centuries, the term "Florida Cracker" is used informally by some Floridians to indicate that their families have lived in the state for many generations. It is considered a source of pride to be descended from "frontier people who did not just live but flourished in a time before air conditioning, mosquito repellent, and screens."[3][4]
Notable Florida crackers

Doyle E. Carlton – 25th governor of Florida (1929–1933), U.S. Senator from Florida (1971–1989)
Kathy Castor – member of the U.S. House of Representatives for Florida's 11th congressional district (2007–2013) and 14th congressional district (2013–present)
Lawton Chiles – 41st governor of Florida (1991–1998)
LeRoy Collins – 33rd governor of Florida (1955–1961)
Fred P. Cone – 27th governor of Florida (1937–1941)
William Cooley – Florida pioneer
Bob Graham – 38th governor of Florida (1937–1941), U.S. Senator from Florida (1987–2005)
Ben Hill Griffin Jr. – "A Cracker millionaire from Frostproof, Fla."[5]
Spessard Holland – 28th governor of Florida (1941–1945), U.S. Senator (1946–1971)
Bill Nelson – member of the U.S. House of Representatives (1979–1991), NASA payload specialist (STS-61-C), U.S. Senator (2001–present)
Adam Putnam – member of the U.S. House of Representatives for Florida's 12th congressional district (2001–2011), Florida Agriculture Commissioner (2011–present)
Fuller Warren – 30th governor of Florida (1949–1953)
Janet Wood Reno- U.S. Attorney General (1993-2001)

[Kali]

11. even if they used cracker in the most racist, offensive manner

it really has no bearing on anything

the victim's potential "racism" isn't why he is dead, though the killer's may have contributed to the situation

[JaneyVee]

12. We should focus more on the "creepy" part.

[galileoreloaded]

13. its a pejorative term for white people. nt

[spin]

14. "Cracker" is often proudly used by people who were born in Florida.

Florida cracker

Florida cracker refers to original colonial-era English and American pioneer settlers of what is now the U.S. state of Florida, and their descendants. The first of these arrived in 1763 when Spain traded Florida to Great Britain.

***snip***

Cracker Cowmen

In Florida, those who own or work cattle traditionally have been called cowmen. In the late 1800s they were often called cow hunters, a reference to hunting for cattle scattered over the wooded rangelands during roundups. At times the terms cowman and Cracker have been used interchangeably because of similarities in their folk culture. Today the western term "cowboy" is often used for those who work cattle. [1]

The Florida "cowhunter" or "cracker cowboy" of the 19th and early 20th centuries was distinct from the Spanish vaquero and the Western cowboy. Florida cowboys did not use lassos to herd or capture cattle. Their primary tools were cow whips and dogs. Florida cattle and horses were small. The "cracker cow", also known as the "native" or "scrub" cow averaged about 600 pounds (270 kg) and had large horns and large feet.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_cracker

My son in law qualifies as a true Florida cracker as he was born in Florida and has herded cattle on a horse using a bull whip.

[ChiciB1]

21. Thank You... Pretty Interesting...

And my husband was born here, just didn't herd cattle.

Regardless, as a black person her view of white people and how many blacks have been treated throughout history is spot on. In fact his and her fear was probably greater than that of the murderer, "Georgie!"

[boston bean]

19. In new England we call crackers, crackas.

Like peanut butter crackas. Butter is pronounced butta.

On a serious note if someone called me one, it wouldn't mean anything to me. Certainly, wouldn't be on any comparative level of a white person calling a black person the n word.

[dipsydoodle]

20. In England UK

Crackers means daft in the head and cracker is used to describe women as in drop dead gorgeous..

[Nye Bevan]

29. Also "cream crackered" = "knackered" (nt)

[dipsydoodle]

35. Indeed

[darkangel218]

22. Words dont kill.

Psycho vigilante armed racists do.

Enough said.

[Just Saying]

23. If I'm not mistaken

Rachel also said Trayvon referred to Zimmerman with the "n" word as well. (Seems silly to write it that way, but I hate that word.). Anyway, my point is that it seems like teens use this word like you might "dude." I'm on my 40s and I grew up in a racially mixed environment and nobody used that word but I've seen kids on twitter of all races using it as a generic and even friendly term for each other. "My Ni***"

I don't think either of these kids meant "cracker" in a negative way and I'm much more likely to take Rachel's definition as true than Zimmerman's defense team. I don't think I've ever heard the word "cracker" until South Park and then I didn't take offense. I guess as people have said it's more of a southern thing.

Of course this case is about race, but the reverse-racism talking point or flat out denying the racial dynamic, shows just how systematic racism is. The same folks denying it use terms like "thug" or "gangsta" to describe Trayvon and Zimmerman's defense didn't hold up a picture of Trayvon in a hoodie or something, but just one of a shirtless black kid. Just because Zimmerman didn't use a racial slur (and some would argue he absolutely did) doesn't mean we should pretend we don't know he called the cops on Trayvon because he was black! Give me a break!

[nolabear]

24. In my experience it's a little like "ignorant redneck". Hick, rube, sometimes hillbilly. Classist.

It is applied to white people but it's a classist term. It's an insult but it's a far cry from the n-word.

[marions ghost]

41. I think it once was a put-down of native Floridians

especially by the more upper crusty parts of the South (like back in the 40's or so). But in the 20th century, according to Wiki, it's become a re-appropriated term like redneck, and white FL natives will on occasion call themselves a Florida cracker, because it carries the meaning of original, esp if from rural areas.

So it's not so bad to say "cracker" as kind of a fond joking reference. Not verboten like the n-word.

Trayvon was probably pretty accurate in that description. I'm not familiar with the reference to official law enforcement "cop" --but maybe vigilantes, as in SYG vigilantes. I could see that meaning being behind it.

[Shrek]

27. Here's how Jenteal described it

From the transcript of her interview with Piers Morgan:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1307/15/pmt.01.html

MORGAN: Let's talk about creepy ass cracker. People have said that that is a phrase used by black people, cracker, to describe a white person. Is that true?

JEANTEL: No. Like I said --

MORGAN: How do you spell it, first of all?

JEANTEL: Cracker. Well --

MORGAN: There's no E-R, right? It's --

JEANTEL: No. It's A at the end.

MORGAN: C-R-A-C-K-A?

JEANTEL: Yes, and that's a person who act like they are police, who like (INAUDIBLE), who acting like, that's what I said to them. Trayvon said creepy ass cracka.

MORGAN: It means he thought it was a policeman or a security guy.

JEANTEL: Yes. Who's acting like a policeman and then he keeps telling me that the man still watch him. So if it was a security guard or a policeman, they would come up to Trayvon and say, do you have -- do you need -- do you have a problem, do you need help? You know, like normal people.

[CitizenLeft]

30. I'm a 53-year-old black woman...

...who happens to be pale-skinned. I grew up in the 60's, at a time when it was most unfortunate to be light-skinned in a poor neighborhood where most other children were browner. I was a shy kid, and it never entered my mind that I was any different from the other kids - my beloved mother was brown-skinned, a little browner than Oprah. So every single day, without exception, when I was chased from school to the day care center where my mother would pick me up after work, and was kicked and pinched and shoved and called "yellow cracker" and "where the fuck did you come from?" I thought there was something wrong with me.

It stopped one day when, thoroughly tired of running, I turned on them and told them, yeah, my daddy's WHITE, and he's a COP, and he's going to bring his police dogs and fire hoses and kick ALL of your asses." (my father was black, I got my paleness from him) That, literally, stopped them in their tracks. What does that say about the times? That's what it took to stop it. In 1968. I made double sure they got the message when I took a paring knife to school and told the biggest blabber-mouth kid I knew that I'd use it if they didn't leave me alone. She blabbed alright, but she told the principal. My mother was shocked out of her mind because I'd never told her what had been going on every day. Don't know why I didn't - guess I was embarrassed. My poor mother.

After that, I started defending myself and getting into fights every day to show them... needless to say, I was no longer a shy kid, LOL. Looking back on it, it toughened me tremendously and prepared me for all sorts of misfortune, both intense and insignificant.

So being called a cracker / cracka? Been there. Just like the "n" word, I guess it depends on how you mean to use it.

Oh, and btw, I grew up in Cleveland, so it's not just Florida, or even the south.

[okaawhatever]

31. Thanks for the story. Love it. nt

[CitizenLeft]

32. thank you

...and btw, I hadn't heard that work in decades until Rachel said it... maybe from Richard Pryor in my teens, but that's about it!

[ChiciB1]

33. I Too Want To Thank You For Your Story

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but I posed the question, and got some very good answers from all who responded.

I got a visitor, then realized I had to get dinner ready for my family. Unfortunate timing, but glad I came back to read your story. I too remember the time back in the 60's and think it must have been very hard on you not only to go through it, much less understand it. I was in Texas, but because my father was in the military and I was an Army brat, I wasn't totally aware of the extreme prejudice people of color struggled with. All my life I went to school with many different ethnic groups, my father was a wonderful man and taught me and my 5 sisters that people are people and we should never discriminate. It was a good thing, but I must confess that I was unprepared for what was to come.

As I got older and saw real discrimination, mind you I lived in Texas, saw white and black drinking fountains, blacks blocked from swimming pools and more. Don't need to mention all of it. You know and lived it. But even to this day, and my family and friends will tell you that I have always felt that the ONE ethnic group that has made the least headway in this country are blacks. I know progress has been made, but I think I'm seeing discrimination creeping back in and having the flames fanned by more people on the right than the left.

However, I do have grand children and their generation is much more accepting, but there will always be the Rush Limbaughs and Ted Nugents who have no clue. Despicable, hate filled, sorry excuses for human beings.

It's still shameful and I'm sorry it's still as bad in many places as it always was. Watching Rachel and reaction to her was something I knew was coming. I was aware of words and slangs used, but didn't totally understand the "cracka" word.

I could go on and on, but I know I should be brief. Hope you understand all that I'm saying anyway. Because too many didn't understand Rachel's life experiences they decided she was unworthy of being believed, and a very guilty bully was set free. And the judicial system, given the way the laws are worded failed Trayvon too. Still, I don't think this jury was inclined to be open minded to begin with.

Thanks to all who responded and sorry I ranted away. Just felt compelled to answer "CitizenLeft" in a small way.

[CitizenLeft]

34. thank you ChiciB1 for your thoughtful reply

I've wondered over the years why I didn't become resentful of the treatment I received from my own people. I can't answer that, except that my mother must've buffered it in some way, though I don't remember how. I do know where the seed of the treatment came from. Later in life I met a number of teens or young women who reveled in the lightness of their skin at the expense of other African-Americans who had browner skin - and it was repulsive. They weren't all gracious like Melissa Harris-Perry. The snobbery made me sick to my stomach, and I came to see that I had suffered for their nastiness towards my darker-skinned sisters.

Just before the 4th grade, our school burned down, and a group of us black kids were "bussed" to an all white school closer to downtown (we actually caught the metro bus), and let me tell you, any black kids who had harassed me for being light-skinned quickly dropped that crap. Suddenly I, who apparently had been the "cracker" enemy, was completely accepted because I was being called "n-----" too, right alongside them. We were spit on and pushed and shoved in EXACTLY the same fashion that they had pushed and shoved me. The only reason why this didn't become a victim thing is because we were tough kids - and by then so was I, LOL - and when the white teachers were not looking - the white teachers who did nothing to stop any of this - we spit right back in their faces and kicked them right back on the sly. We were not afraid of them. Peace came only when the mother of the leader of this racist core of bullies put a stop to it by inviting a group of us over for lunch at her house. Apparently she dropped the hammer on her daughter's head, and when that girl stopped the spitting and racial slur-calling, the others reluctantly followed. Whoever that woman was in life, I've always silently tipped my hat to her for setting at least one wannabe racist straight - and for dousing water on a powder keg.

Blah blah. All of that is in the past. While there is obviously still racism and what I call Ugliness of the Soul still going on, and more blatantly than we've seen in decades, I still have great hope. Just look at the photos of the protestors reacting to Trayvon Martin's death and the trial verdict. Look at how many white faces and arms and hands there are. And brown and Asian faces, too. Many of them are young, yes, but there are older folks too. I've lived a long time, and I've NEVER seen such unabashed solidarity, countrywide. Not quiet shy white voices, but LOUD and INSISTENT. Honestly, it makes me cry. It is heartening and hopeful to see so many people instinctively repulsed by Zimmerman, it's unprecedented. We have a long way to go, but knowing that this is a majority sentiment, and not just black voices demanding justice, it gladdens my heart.

Oh yeah... and the treatment of Rachel Jeantel? DISGUSTING beyond words.

[ChiciB1]

36. I'm Sure You've Heard It Before...

It's been said so many, many times... "things happen for a reason." However, I do question why good people have to bear the brunt of so much hurt and misery before light bulbs go off!

And yes, it's good to see so many people of all walks of life coming forward in support of Trayvon and his family. I've been so short on "hope" for quite some time, but perhaps this tragedy will remain in the hearts and minds as we move forward. I know I will never forget, but I was there already.

Two people come to mind... Rodney King, "can't we all get along?"

John Lennon... "All we are saying is give PEACE a chance!"

Words that have endured, but at times people who can't embrace these concepts, drive a train right off the rails. And of course, there are so many more people who have stood before us, who have tried and given their lives to teach those of us who remain. We know who they are.

Thanks for your reply.
PEACE!

[Avalux]

37. PC meaning: white, rural, southern, working class

Not so PC meaning: white trash

It's more of a socio-economic term than racial, certainly not comparable to the n word.

[meow2u3]

38. Wikipedia article on cracker

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracker_%28pejorative%29

Cracker, sometimes white cracker or cracka, is a derogatory term for white people,[1] especially poor rural whites in the Southern United States. In reference to a native of Florida or Georgia, however, it is sometimes used in a neutral or positive context and is sometimes used self-descriptively with pride.[2]

[ChiciB1]

42. Thank You For The Link...

Guess you could call that definition of the word an oxymoron of sorts.

Since I posted this I found out where my sister got the "idea" of "cracka" and I'm not surprised.

Seems she heard Rush LIMPBALLS make the reference, which in turn means that it was HE using the word as a put down on Trayvon. Like it was Trayvon who was the reverse-racist!

Still, she does believe the verdict was outrageous. You just have to KNOW my sister, who I love dearly and am very close to. We have found a way to work around this HUGE divide between us and still not only love each other as sisters, but are also friends.

AND, we both know that each of us says things behind each other's backs that we don't say to each other! This is a fact that we've actually said opening to each other. I tell her if you want to be Right, you need to think Left. She in turn believes that Obama is really the Anti-Christ!!!

Go figure???

[Blue_In_AK]

40. I always think southern redneck.