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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsToday, finally, Snowden was PROVEN a LIAR!
Last edited Wed Jul 17, 2013, 10:08 PM - Edit history (1)
So some Liberals on DU have been going around thanking "Kremlin Eddie" Snowden for leaking the details of critical government operations. Further, they claim that the White House's NSA is spying on all Americans, collecting every bit of information they can get their hands on in case it's ever needed for a terror investigation, or to persuade Elizabeth Warren to be nice to bankers or else Holder puts her granddaughter in prison for that dime bag she bought.
Of course, knowing Democrats in the know, like myself, have said all along that these "Liberals" are full of crap. The NSA only collects tiny bits of carefully selected material, under the tight control of a well-informed Congress. As The Full Transparency president said:
When it comes to telephone calls, every member of Congress has been briefed on this program,
- The Fourth Amendment President
Today, Congress had a little pow-wow with the NSA and guess what - no surprise, we knowing Democrats were RIGHT as we knew all along. Suck it, Liberals!
Here's some telling bits of the discussion:
The sponsor of that bill, Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., said Wednesday that Congress meant only to allow seizures directly relevant to national security investigations. No one expected the government to obtain every phone record and store them in a huge database to search later.
...
And unless you realize youve got a problem, Sensenbrenner said, that is not going to be renewed.
He was followed by Rep. Jerry Nadler, D-N.Y., who picked up where his colleague left off. The problem, he said, is that the administration considers everything in the world relevant to fighting terrorism.
...
Yet one lawmaker, Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas, said some members of Congress wouldnt have known about the NSA surveillance without the sensational leaks: Snowden, I dont like him at all, but we would never have known what happened if he hadnt told us.
Proof positive that Congress KNEW, and they APPROVED it. So stop WHINING about the Rule of Law President.
Now, I certainly understand how most readers of this, having smaller minds than we movers and shakers, might misinterpret the quotes above. For example, how could Snowden, I dont like him at all, but we would never have known what happened if he hadnt told us. actually mean the good Senator did know about this all along, and did heartily approve of it all along?
It's like this: remember back when you were back in school, taking advanced math, and things always seemed to have minus signs in front of them for reasons you couldn't fathom? You thought the answer was 7, but you were WRONG because you're dumb, and the answer was really -7? The REAL game in Washington is like that: everyone in these hearings says the OPPOSITE of what they mean.
And don't get me started on "Benedict Arnold" Nadler. Nadler used to weigh a lot more before his cowardly gastric bypass surgery, and everyone knows that overweight people have poor hygiene, so Nadler probably just has sympathy for "Not in Morales' Plane That We didn't Force Down" Eddie Snowden who's rumored to go AN ENTIRE WEEK without cutting his fingernails. Ugh!
So, let this be the end of this sordid affair. Snowden will soon be frog marched to a solitary where he'll sleep naked without sheets and fully illuminated at all times. And all the Liberals will soon join him, once we finish analyzing their phone calls.
Remember! Big Brother is not really watching, although they see you in the corner of their eye, except they do watch when you're looking the other way but they look away when you look back at them.
Regards,
Third-Way Manny
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Today, finally, Snowden was PROVEN to be a LIAR!"
...today still proves he's a liar and a clown.
Bush's illegal spying was exposed in 2005 by Thomas Tamm. FISA has always been controversial and challenged by civil liberties groups and some lawmakers (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023009232). The notion that criticism of Snowdens actions that led him to reveal U.S. state secrets to other countries and find himself stuck in Russia have anything to do with anyone's opinion ongoing debate about NSA domestic programs is hogwash
Don't expect people to overlook Snowden's actions overseas simply because there are "doubts" about the program. Not going to happen.
Snowden is a delusional and self-important clown. He and Greenwald (and their supports) have done everything to help make the story about them.
First, Greenwald announces that he has enough information to bring down the U.S.
Snowden follows by declaring he's immune to torture.
He's applying for temporary asylum in Russia.
Doesn't get any more bizarre than that. Well...
Edward Snowden Declares Himself Torture-Proof
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023275112
If Snowden's case as a whistleblower is so strong, why is he afraid to face the consequences?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023236549
Sen. Tester Calls On Snowden To Return To America To Face The Music
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023281426
Russian President Vladimir Putin made it clear Wednesday that he holds his country's relationship with the United States in higher esteem than he does former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden, Reuters reported.
When a reporter asked if the Snowden case would negatively affect a September summit between the U.S. and Russia in Moscow, Putin responded that "bilateral relations, in my opinion, are far more important than squabbles about the activities of the secret services," according to Reuters.
"We warned Mr. Snowden that any action by him that could cause damage to Russian-American relations is unacceptable for us," he added, as quoted by Reuters.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/putin-us-russia-relations-greater-than-snowden
The idea that Snowden could be thought of as a "hero" by any intelligent, moderately well-informed, emotionally mature person just boggles the mind.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)And for that he has to suffer all you people running around like deranged pitbulls snapping at everyone?
One could surmise you pitbulls are in favor of the secret doors remaining closed. Sure looks to be true.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Sure looks like it to me too. Then you have to ask yourself why would that be?
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)The best I can come up with is they are scared of something. That something may be the hole Obama has dug for himself; telling us he has it under control.
Well, Obama was wrong. It is out of control and is making Obama look bad.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)have also behaved in the exactly same manner with regard to every issue that casts a bad light on the Administration:
* Indefinite detention
* Chained CPI and SSI "reform"
* Drone murder
* Failure to close Gitmo
* Preemptively killing the Public Option
* Repeated appointments of Republicans
* Unquestioning support of Israel
* Illegal use of force in Libya
You'd think that like most people these posters would agree with some of these things, oppose some of them and be neutral on others. Instead we see sneering, lockstep criticism of anyone disagreeing with these policies. Not arguments in good faith, seeking to find a common middle ground with vigorous debate.
Why? Blind partisanship is all I can think of.
Mustn't interrupt the flow of corporate money to their campaign coffers.
edit to add: Also must not interrupt the flow of money from the US Treasury into corporate hands such as Booz Allen Hamilton.
Against * Indefinite detention
Against * Chained CPI and SSI "reform"
Support * Drone murder
Non-Sequitor * Failure to close Gitmo
Against * Preemptively killing the Public Option
Support some, against others * Repeated appointments of Republicans
Against * Unquestioning support of Israel
Support * Illegal use of force in Libya
As to guys who work in Intelligence, flee to Moscow, and fail to provide any secret information that everybody did not already know causing Moscow to ignore them ... I just hope the 2nd one never gets a job in a Texas schoolbook depository.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)powerless hands are tied President Obama, it's all the fault of the All Powerful Congress and/or Republicans.
Then if you dare to mention how little he has gotten done it's, Oh, oh and look at all of the things the all powerful President Obama got done in spite of the evil Republicans and/or Congress!
I can't tell how many times I have seen both sentiments in the same post.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)They weren't really that secret.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Obama told us the other day something that was false about the NSA and its capabilities. So, not only have many DUers shown you the truth, but Obama tried to keep the door closed on you.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Obama. That makes all of them liars. Kill the messenger if you want. The message is unchanged. On this issue there is no daylight between bush and obama.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,570 posts)You may be right.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)What are you afraid of? What scares you with this coming to light?
If Obama has done nothing wrong, he shouldn't be afraid of scrutiny. Isn't that what the NSA tells us?
BehindTheCurtain76
(112 posts)What a joke. This thread is almost out Of The Onion. Does the author work for NSA. Lol. In actual news, President Jimmy Carter said we are no longer a functioning democracy because of what NSA is doing. This thread is really the most pathetic, untrue spasm of the mouth I have seen yet.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Civilization2
(649 posts)are funny as hell! Sad, more than a little pathetic, and funny as hell!
Stop wasting your overly abundant time making lame attempts to attack people and deal with the reality they have brought to light. Silly haters.
SomethingFishy
(4,876 posts)Snowden is a fugitive, their spying methods are in place, the data center is almost done and anyone who even dares to say even the slightest thing in opposition is ostracized, you have to wonder why they keep hammering away.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,614 posts)CHARLES BUKOWSKI, Erections, Ejaculations, Exhibitions and Tales of Ordinary Madness
You do understand he is being a tad facetious though don't you? Or do you?
truth2power
(8,219 posts)He's a hero.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Russia jails opposition leader, Putin denounced as dictator
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-protest-leader-navalny-found-guilty-theft-052131600.html
Your assertion indicates you are not.
truth2power
(8,219 posts)and predations against their own people get slammed? Here or in Russia...same as.
It's pathetic that Snowden has to petition Russia, of all places, for asylum, because he fears being disappeared, imprisoned and tortured by the US government if he returns to America.
Tragedy....then farce.
And speaking of FARCE - That gang of miscreants testifying before Congress yesterday about "three-hop queries"?
They are fscking nuts!!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I guess we should be thankful that the US is now equitable with Russia. Brilliant correlation there.
Swagman
(1,934 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)Both Zimmerman and Snowden are lying douchebags who benefit from the support of RW "libertarian" douchebags. The only difference is that Snowden hasn't killed anyone yet.
BehindTheCurtain76
(112 posts)This is the most idiotic thread I've ever seen in DU. Who cares about democrat or republican? We have all been lied to and your thread contains numerous lies. It's all being saved and all being used. Go home please.
djean111
(14,255 posts)BehindTheCurtain76
(112 posts)Got so pissed ended up skimming in a rush. Total Onion style
Swagman
(1,934 posts)but we foreigners did not give your country the right to spy on us, to divert planes carrying our president etc.
as usual Americans fail to understand why they are now probably the most hated race of people on earth. You would think that would worry the bulk of intelligent, moderately well-informed, emotionally mature Americans but it seems not.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)RC
(25,592 posts)"The Character Assassination Continues"
Unlike the Rep. Poe, I knew about the NSA surveillance. Ask Senator Wyden.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)expanded criteria the FISA court is using on surveillance. The ACLU has not even been able to get that info. They would love to know the details.
AmBlue
(3,460 posts)Not surprised.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'm not surprised. If it isn't "Obama is perfect and here is why" you won't get a response.
JEB
(4,748 posts)Several hours and still no answer. Not even any links to other non answers.
GeorgeGist
(25,570 posts)tazkcmo
(7,419 posts)NOW I feel safe.
galileoreloaded
(2,571 posts)
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)Every last bit of it, is irrelevant to a concerned citizen who values the principles embodied in the constitution, and understands the implications of a vast database of personal information on everyone in the world, giving the elites of human society -- a tiny fraction of the population -- a powerful weapon to use against all the rest of us, further consolidating their power over us.
I don't like it, one bit.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Considering the reputation this country now has regarding its treatment of detainees, torture, indefinite detention, and particularly its disregard for the rights of Whistle Blowers, it's total disregard for the law, it's hare to believe any sentient being would need to ask that question.
That would be like asking why anyone from any country that uses torture as a policy, where it is no longer illegal but where torturers are honored, and given medals, 'why don't you go face 'justice' in such a country?
The WORLD knows the answer to that question.
drynberg
(1,648 posts)" some truths are self evident"...why would any logical rational soul stay in the USA while whistle blowing? If you really have to ask that question, the answer probably would not be understood.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)At this point, I have to give kudos to anyone to has the nerve to blow the whistle on any US government activities. When we consider all that has happened over the past decade and more... it's not hard to understand why someone like Snowden would be reluctant to "face the consequences".
I guess that, to some extent, it depends on where we stand... whether or not we believe that even prisoners deserve to be treated humanely, with some level of respect. Whether we're willing to march in lockstep with anything the NSA does in the name of "protecting freedom". Can we, as Americans, maintain that we have any respect for privacy, or that we believe in freedom, when just about everything we do electronically is being watched? When, further, we're guilty of spying on our allies to an absolutely ridiculous extent?
I don't know Snowden personally, and frankly I'm not sure I care what kind of man he is. What I do care about is that he's one of the few people out there making any effort to tell the truth - and that in this time, that requires a nearly masochistic level of bravery.
Personally, I hope he stays away. I hope he remains free and that at some point we all recognize and applaud his bravery in doing what very few people have either the ability or the courage to do - to reveal the truth of those in power.
The idea that we have anything resembling justice here for the likes of Snowden is laughable. I wouldn't return to "face the consequences" either, because I would have no way of knowing if I'd be outsourced for torture.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)consequences' meant facing a fair trial and fair media coverage of the issues, there would be no problem. Snowden would most likely still be here, since in such a system which valued truth and justice he would WANT to draw attention to what he has discovered and would feel confident that he would be treated fairly.
But in the US?? That is what made me laugh, not because I find this in any way amusing, just that ANYONE would even have to ask the question considering how low we have fallen as a democracy.
Thanks for your response, I agree with everything you said.
Response to ProSense (Reply #1)
Post removed
Cleita
(75,480 posts)If you hang around, you will figure it out. It's mostly about cut and paste.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)bullshit that this post got hidden. New person asking a question that lingers in the mind of everyone with a grain of goddamned sense, and their post gets hidden.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,315 posts)Certainly as you wrote, asking a question that lingers in the mind of everyone with a grain of goddamned sense....
N_E_1 for Tennis
(12,773 posts)whttevrr
(2,347 posts)Why was that post hidden?
It seemed like a valid question to me?
tclambert
(11,187 posts)What a stupid jury. Somebody alert on that 'cause I just insulted a jury. A stupid jury.
Swagman
(1,934 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)what kind of jurors do we HAVE here anyway? But its ok to call for the death of people........
NealK
(6,945 posts)If I was more paranoid I would say that there's an option to get a post hidden with a fake jury result. Oh and it didn't took me long for that question to lingers in my mind too, although I don't even have an atom of goddamned (Pro)sense.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)leave it for posterity. I doubt THAT would have been hidden though.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)welcome to DU
questionseverything
(11,681 posts)great questions for prosense
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)bullshit that the post got hidden, because I think every single one of us that is rational asks that same question.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)NealK
(6,945 posts)Glenn Greenwald being interviewed on Democracy now but this part made me smile:
"What youthe only people at this point who are defending the NSA are the hardcore neocons in the Republican Party, people like Lindsey Graham and John McCain and the like, who see national security as the only value that matters, and the really hardcore Obama loyalists and Democrats, who defend anything the Obama administration does and have become the loudest proponents, ironically, of the massive secret surveillance state and of the governments power to listen in. So those two groupsRepublican neocons, Democratic Party loyalistsare at this point the only real defenders the NSA has left."
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/18/glenn_greenwald_growing_backlash_against_nsa
Aerows
(39,961 posts)with Republicans. I hope they are pleased by the choices they make to stand shoulder to shoulder with the very people that have obstructed everything under the sun in Congress.
I sense they like it, though, because it gives them CYA coverage - "Congress did it, not the executive branch!"
Bullshit. This is within the purview of the Executive Office.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)just go to "copyandpastefordummies.com"
it's so easy even a cavewoman can do it
1. highlight the material to copy and push the right button on your mouse, and choose "copy"
2. put the mouse over the empty space where you wanna deposit it, hit the left button, and choose "paste"
and if you say, wanna deposit the same garbage in multiple posts, just open them all up in different tabs or windows, and just click away!!!!
you too can join the 100K club in mere months!!!!!
getting a DU fan club might be a bit more laborious though. That requires actual conversations and some originality.
Apophis
(1,407 posts)Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)NealK
(6,945 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)that could possibly harm President Obama, ProSense? He's perfect, right? Everything he does is above censure. Why on EARTH would someone criticize him, since it could be shot down in an instance due to his magnificence, right?
Wasting time shielding him from criticism is wasted time because he is so glorious and perfect and the bestest President the US has ever known.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,315 posts)bowens43
(16,064 posts)Give it up, you lost this battle....
Progressive dog
(7,588 posts)relayerbob
(7,398 posts)that Snowden is a pawn and that there is a much larger game afoot here.
Agony
(2,605 posts)again
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"The Character Assassination Continues"
Unlike the Rep. Poe, I knew about the NSA surveillance. Ask Senator Wyden.
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)Quote from PS: "Unlike the Rep. Poe, I knew about the NSA surveillance."
My question... since you knew already, we have to wonder what you were waiting on to get around to telling us and Rep. Poe.
Did you inform Obama? If you did, why didn't he tell us the truth, the way Conyers now has?
Why did you wait for Snowden? You could have been a hero.
Oh, BTW, yes, Wyden knew. But he was sworn to secrecy. Were you sworn to secrecy also?
revmclaren
(2,613 posts)Years ago I was posting about the spying and government programs like Carnivore (which has been replaced with even more frightening advanced programs) on my facebook page and other posts. The NSA spying program is the greatest secret NONsecret posted here. Stating that we didnt hear about it and stomping your feet and saying "No you didnt" does not change fact. Just makes person look like a bully! Snowden might have REMINDED people of the spying, but a hero.....Heroes dont run to mother Russia. And nothing will change my mind on this. Nothing. So rant on Snowdenites. Not listening and will not respond to any replies. Have a nice day.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)So your mind is closed?
Thing is, you don't know all that has gone on or is planned. To think you do is just plain crazy. There are some congress people who now know more than they did, and more than you know, and it has made them start talking.
Too, Snowden made it easier for them to start talking. Now even those whose minds were closed are beginning to open up and see the truth.
As for Snowden and his running off, he is not done telling the story. Were he here still, he'd be a fool to say anymore because he'd be under court order to cease. He is only free because he ran.
And if you want to argue that justice here is all set up fine and dandy, you only have to look at two cases of today to see that being out of the reach of this justice system is wise: Manning and the Zimmerman's cases are sure signs that Snowden is wise.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022081086
Senator Wyden (D-Ore.) calls for oversight of agencies that might be monitoring Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022081177
PATRIOT Act Being Used to Keep Super Duper Government Spy Operation Top Secret
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002440614
House votes to renew controversial surveillance law
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014228212
Obama signs FISA extension..5 more years.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022111527
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)He could have remained anonymous....but he chose not to. That was his next bad decision among several.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)the very people insisting he made it all about him would be running around screaming about how he was afraid to put his name to his hateful lies against the President.
I'm more impressed that he didn't do it anonymously.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)pfffffffttttt. Doom and Gloom ....Doom and Gloom
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)that the people that obsessed about boxes in garages and pole dancing girlfriends would have let an anonymous leak go without screaming about how it was anonymous.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)All those things BECAME interesting WHEN he decided to make it ABOUT him by putting his face in public. He could have easily prevented it by remaining anonymous. He brought THAT on himself.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)They were smear attempts, and anonymity would have been one more tool for the smearing.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)He could have prevented it by remaining anonymous.....instead he sought infamy. How do you "smear" an anonymous person? This is a ridiculous line of reasoning...
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)"No one should trust anything this guy leaked because he's such a coward he won't even come forward."
I'm not saying you personally would have said that, but someone definitely would have.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)that would have passed on the opportunity to screech that he was an anonymous bully. Boxes in his garage, didn't stop to pet the neighbor's dog. Who in their right mind would think they wouldn't take an opportunity to bash him just because he was anonymous?
It's always going to be something with them. He dared to embarrass the Obama administration, and that makes him public enemy 1, period. Had this been under Bush, we'd be seeing an entirely different painting and hearing an entirely different song.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)His current circumstances were brought on himself. And yes....he broke the law.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)one btw who WAS a hero to some here who now seem to hate Whistle Blowers, during the Bush years.
Since that time you have SUPPORTED the egregious Amendment that was passed to PROTECT the criminals who had violated the FISA Bill, making what they did illegally, LEGAL. Their actions did NOT change, our crooked representatives misused and abused their powers and passed a law that made it unnecessary to get a warrant until AFTER the fact.
What we knew then was NOTHING compared to what we have just found out. But we did know that since Congress did not hold the Perps in the Bush administration responsible it would get worse, and that everyone who voted for that Amendment was complicit in allowing it to happen. THAT Was when I first had doubts about this President. And now I see I should have paid more attention to them. He condemned the Amendment and then voted for it.
What we have found out now is shocking, truly shocking and to keep posting this old talking point hoping to diminish how the Bush abuses have since escalated, isn't going to convince anyone of anything. .
ProSense
(116,464 posts)These members of Congress claiming they just found out are not believable.
How is it that several members of Congress are pointing to concerns, briefings are being held, votes are proceeding after debate, and others claim they had no idea.
"Since that time you have SUPPORTED the egregious Amendment that was passed to PROTECT the criminals who had violated the FISA Bill, making what they did illegally, LEGAL. Their actions did NOT change, our crooked representatives misused and abused their powers and passed a law that made it unnecessary to get a warrant until AFTER the fact."
What the fuck are you talking about?
matthews
(497 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)Because you know that they aren't duds, embarrassed the Obama administration, and anyone that does that, well, they are the enemy!
Face it, ProSense, you are so biased that the gravity of a black hole couldn't pull you from the "I worship Obama" camp. Public leaders need criticism occasionally, because they are human beings and make mistakes. All of us do. They have more power than most, so they need more criticism to keep them from doing harm to the public when they make mistakes.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Those members are NOT lying, they did NOT know what was known to just a few of them. And those few, Wyden included, has been gagged from speaking about 'how they are using the law'.
He has asked over and over that they, those who did know, should be released from being forbidden to speak about how the law has been used.
I suspect that no on is happier than people like Wyden, who have stated over and over again 'if the people knew how they are using the law, they would be outraged'. Well, now we finaly do know and the people ARE outraged, more than half of them now with the numbers rising as more find out.
What Snowden has revealed is vital information for the people to have, as Wyden had wanted, in order to begin the process of ending these enormous violations of the 4th Amendment. Hopefully on an International level.
ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)While my first question might be, "Since when has the DU fringe become Republican fan-girls?", I think a more pertinent" question might be "Since when is it newsworthy that some Republican doesn't know something?"
I thought even you would be better than that.
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)It's a simple question which and DEMOCRAT should have no problem answering.
So, I'll give you another shot at it. I'll ask it again: Is Ron Wyden lying and is Jerry Nadler lying? How about John Conyers? Are THEY 'Republican Fan Boys' How about Sanchez 'Republican Fan Girl' in your opinion?
Btw, Progressive Democrats refer to women as women. Right Wingers are known to refer to women as 'girls'. Just so you don't get into trouble on this Democratic Forum!
I look forward to your response and although it's unlikely, it would be more in line with the community standards on DU to try to stay on topic. Unless of course you do not want to answer what appears to be a very difficult question for you.
I hope no one alerts on your post, I prefer it remain visible for all to see.
'Fan Girl'! Sometimes people just give themselves away without even realizing it.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)well. They think one can be a 'one Democrat Democrat'.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)matthews
(497 posts)No one else knew? Are you smarter than all these organizations?
https://optin.stopwatching.us/
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Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)I hope you stay. The alerts seem to be after you because I welcomed you.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'll bet you know how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop.
HipChick
(25,595 posts)pscot
(21,044 posts)mpgalloway
(34 posts)It's like a computer terminal sweatshop with paid agents by the hundreds. Maybe they get paid by how many negative posts about Ed they can create every day.
As soon as the recommendation for a Nobel Peace Prize started the negative traffic has increased ten fold....
grasswire
(50,130 posts)I'm thinking that's a very good idea.
Skittles
(170,256 posts)they'll cease their garbage in 2016
ucrdem
(15,720 posts)Glad you finally figured it out!
Scuba
(53,475 posts)flamingdem
(40,833 posts)John Schindler @20committee 7h
Anti-Kremlin Novaya Gazeta: "infantile ultra-leftist" #Snowden "wanted to become a virtual Christ without hanging on a cross"
** Though they did get the ultra-leftist part wrong, he's a Paul loving Libertarian
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Bwahahahahahahhahahah.
flamingdem
(40,833 posts)I'm enjoying the ironic shoo
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... Denial isn't isn't a river in Egypt.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
Puglover
(16,380 posts)My personal favorite:"Latin America is a cyst on the anus of the world."
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)flamingdem
(40,833 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)flamingdem
(40,833 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)flamingdem
(40,833 posts)as Putin tries to use Snowden to distract from his enemy who is about to go to prison, and to distract from other humans rights issues.
Excuse me if you just don't give a shit, being short sighted includes ignoring the international implications
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)progressoid
(52,821 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,315 posts)progressoid
(52,821 posts)forestpath
(3,102 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)2004 through 2008. I know Bush spoke of this surveillance in 2005 and I knew at the time there was also warrantless wiretapping happening and I did not agree those wiretaps was without oversight. I do not know where this group has been for the last several years but if they really had a grasp of the truth then they would not have a reason to yell and scream for their hero. I think more every day Snowden is somebodies patsy, it would be good for Snowden to return to the US and plead to a lesser charge in exchange for information on the backers of this mess.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)I think the earliest date was 2010 for the Prism program the latest date is April 2013 for the Verizon sweep.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)dates or not. I am sure some programs have started and there will be more and better ones coming as technology becomes available.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)The Guardian publishes the source documents so it is easy to refute.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)the real traitors are right here on this board, doing everything they can to mind-fuck you into authoritarian submission.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)for disloyalty and possible treason to the nation.

Good to see third way Manny!
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)point. You lose all credibility at that point.
You lose.
emulatorloo
(46,151 posts)jtuck004
(15,882 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)stupidicus
(2,570 posts)I knew he was lying when he claimed "direct access" and used an actual NSA powerpoint http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=nsa%20powerpoint%20%22direct%20access%22&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guardian.co.uk%2Fworld%2F2013%2Fjun%2F06%2Fus-tech-giants-nsa-data&ei=xFLnUYj8BIXqqwHP54CwCg&usg=AFQjCNEy-klqioBaIhDRMFkWNm0A9ixuBg&bvm=bv.49478099,d.aWM to prove it.
It's like the only ones telling the truth are the liars...
I'm so confused
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Agreed, Snowden puffed and puffed himself into something he could never be.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)or maybe a tv show
tclambert
(11,187 posts)Come to think of it, I've never seen Colbert and Third Way Manny in the same place at the same time. Hey, Colbert, take off those glasses for a moment.
tblue
(16,350 posts)Whereas we "Real" Democrats love it. We want our gummint free to protect us by any means necessary. Even if it means curtailing our freedom. Three Cheers for the Red, White, and Blue!
USandA! USandA! USandA!
Remember what the wise man said: You must destroy freedom to save it.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)A stain on our party's record.
Thank goodness Hillary had the courage to pursue the phantom menace hidden within Iraq. She's inevitable again, you know.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)even though it was approved by congress?
Maybe we have the same thing here - congress approved but was lied to.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Indeed.
"Collect it all."
The Crux of the NSA Story in One Phrase: 'Collect It All'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023261311
Pholus
(4,062 posts)And that it meant NOTHING because numbers could not be connected with names!
Certainly "Collect it All" must mean "Collect it all if it's metadata, ignore it otherwise because we are not listening to your calls"
Otherwise, it would look like deliberate misleading...
burnodo
(2,017 posts)There is no greater villain to the third way.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Could it be...?
Damn!
demosincebirth
(12,818 posts)Lonr
(103 posts)If Edward Snowden had not leaked the information he did, these hearings would never have taken place and the NSA would be free to continue with it's blatantly illegal surveillance. The fact that the NSA is collecting communication information from U. S. citizens indiscriminately is, itself, a violation of the protections afforded by the 4th Amendment to the United Stated Constitution. So, by sacrificing his comfortable lifestyle to become a fugitive from the worlds most powerful nation to alert all of us to the dangers we face within our own national security apparatus, Snowden has, in fact, shown himself to be a true hero.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)if I missed the sarcasm, then I apologize as well
tclambert
(11,187 posts)But then I woke up and became a fan. I'm still not sure about this guy Pro-Sense, though. Is it possible he's not doing satire?
Pholus
(4,062 posts)So that's kind of close in a way.
Might even be within three degrees of separation, meeting the NSA metadata criteria for scrutiny!
Damn you!
tclambert
(11,187 posts)I thought Third-Way had killed and eaten all the other alters.
And I thought Poe's Law was about when Raven Hunting season opens. (Hint: Nevermore.)
bearssoapbox
(1,408 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)no information and they knew, they KNEW that the NSA wasnt spying.
Then came Clapper admitting he lied to Congress (I think he said he told the least lie possible) and that someone was collecting data but the NSA wasnt using it w/o a warrant.
Then we see the warrant that gave the NSA carte blanche authority to collect whatever data they wanted. The Booz-Allen apologists said, yes but it was legal because it was a warrant. Yes it was a warrant, but a warrant that was in clear violation of the FISA Law as well as the Constitution. It was an illegal warrant.
Then the NSA said they only looked at the data of suspected terrorists* and all of their contacts.
Now they are admitting they might have fibbed a little and were analyzing data on all terrorist suspects and their contacts and all of the contacts of those contacts. If you passed first year algebra you would recognize that the number of people being analyzed just jumped geometrically.
What has been tippy-toed around about is that Booz-Allen or someone is collecting data on all Americans and analyzing it whether the NSA accesses it or not. This is a tremendous tool for a tyrant. Just saying.
*Per the Patriot Act, suspected terrorists includes all protestors and anyone that interferes with corporations making a profit.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)For NSA chief, terrorist threat drives passion to collect it all, observers say
Alexander frequently points out that collection programs are subject to oversight by Congress as well as the U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, although the proceedings of both bodies are shrouded in secrecy. But even his defenders say Alexanders aggressiveness has sometimes taken him to the outer edge of his legal authority.
Some in Congress complain that Alexanders NSA is sometimes slow to inform the oversight committees of problems, particularly when the agencys eavesdroppers inadvertently pick up communications that fall outside the NSAs legal mandates. Others are uncomfortable with the extraordinarily broad powers vested in the NSA chief. In 2010, he became the first head of U.S. Cyber Command, set up to defend Defense Department networks against hackers and, when authorized, conduct attacks on adversaries. Pentagon officials and Alexander say the commands mission is also to defend the nation against cyberattacks.
He is the only man in the land that can promote a problem by virtue of his intelligence hat and then promote a solution by virtue of his military hat, said one former Pentagon official, voicing a concern that the lines governing the two authorities are not clearly demarcated and that Alexander can evade effective public oversight as a result. The former official spoke on the condition of anonymity to be able to talk freely.
Alexander himself has expressed unease about secrecy constraints that he says prohibit him from fully explaining what the NSA does. But just as in Iraq, he remains fiercely committed to the belief that we need to get it all, said Timothy Edgar, a former privacy officer at the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and at the White House.
The NSAs 5,000-acre campus at Fort Meade in suburban Maryland contains more than 1,300 heavily guarded buildings and an array of computers and gadgetry sometimes described as the most wonderful electronic toybox in the world. But even before his arrival there in 2005 as director, Alexander was regarded as a leading apostle for harnessing technologys awesome power in the service of national security.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/for-nsa-chief-terrorist-threat-drives-passion-to-collect-it-all/2013/07/14/3d26ef80-ea49-11e2-a301-ea5a8116d211_story_1.html
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)davidpdx
(22,000 posts)tell him he can come back and throw Snowden the parade he deserves. Then we can build a monument for him in Washington, impeach Obama and install him as our new leader
sparkling
muriel_volestrangler
(105,856 posts)Squares are two dimensional - to the 2nd power. Cubes are 3 dimensional - the to 3rd power. Square roots are, therefore, half dimensional - to the power of a half. And that introduces a convenient "plus or minus" for your answer. So you see, this hasn't been 3 dimensional chess, or 9 dimensional chess, but half dimensional chess. Where you get to pick the outcome.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Awesome.
tclambert
(11,187 posts)those who understand binary and those who don't.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)many people under the age of 35 won't know what you mean when you say "square root." Unless you can post the glyph on the calculator that represents the term.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)
Here's a cube root:

Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)We pick a side and present news articles that support it.
Actually I think the food fight is more important to the participants then what is or isn't going on in the NSA.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)davidwparker
(5,397 posts)Under this pseudonym,
is the background behind the point you're making.
Cool.
Billy Pilgrim
(96 posts)Last edited Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:15 PM - Edit history (1)
This -- " The REAL game in Washington is like that: everyone in these hearings says the OPPOSITE of what they mean." -- is based on subjective perception and faith.
How does one explain the disclosure of Verizon's records? Why would the ACLU be suing the Obama administration? Why would Obama himself defend NSA surveillance? Are they also doing the opposite of their intentions?
Give me a break.
This is the argument of a person in denial.
Edit:
Fuck, I only read about 60% before responding. Missed the sarcasm.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Same as I would sign my reply to his OP as:
Third-Way Loyal Royalist Idwiyo
Long live The Poodle & GCHQ!
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)You have proven that the programming from the Ministry of Truth has worked.
They tell the truth, and you broadcast it.
Thanks from The Party.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Because they're all terrorists!
Terra! Terra! Everywhere!
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)We ARE always at war with Eastasia, or have you forgotten that?
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)'They look away when you look back at them'
Thanks for the desperately needed humor
markpkessinger
(8,887 posts)Love it!
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Worth the read as always.
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Richardo This message was self-deleted by its author.
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)Gregorian
(23,867 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Together, we'll keep all English-speaking peoples safe from the right to privacy!
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)user data for marketing purposes. What is wrong with them? Don't they know it belongs to them simply because I bought something from them?
What is the world coming to?
Here, a quote:
Dear Customer,
In connection with the management of our customer database, we would like to remind you that SNCB Europe (the SNCB department in charge of services relating to international trains) may use your personal details for direct marketing purposes, as stated in its privacy policy.
Under Privacy Legislation, you have the right at any time, free of charge, to object to the processing of your data for direct marketing purposes, to access your data, and to have it corrected, or, if necessary, deleted in accordance with the SNCB Europe privacy policy (see above link).
If you would prefer that your data is no longer used for direct marketing purposes, please complete this online form.
Can you believe that entire online form was ONE click box. NOTHING ELSE?! Bloody libertarian ultra-leftist commie bastards! This foul practice has to be stopped BEFORE it spreads further! Don't they understand how dangerous this practice can be to the wellbeing of the US & UK military-industrial complex?
Third-Way Loyal Royalist Idwiyo
Long live The Poodle & GCHQ!

MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)and can you check here to say it's OK?"
Might as well say "Terrorists, come on in, the water's great!"
A lack of precious bodily fluids!
BrainMann1
(460 posts)being a Democrat. I saw through your re-thug (republican)for what it is. You can't divide us. As I wrote before see the remarks made by The ED Show. Nuff said bye!
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)in part because Manny does an excellent job of it. It's a joke, he's taking the piss out of the Conservative Democrats and their Republican pals.
freemay20
(243 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)freemay20
(243 posts)to be sorry. I voiced my opinion just as you are free to voice your opinion. Neither better than the other even though they may be completely different.
Bragi
(7,650 posts)DU sure ain't a very liberal-sounding place these days.
Yay massive surveillance! Kill all the whistle blowers! Blah, blah...
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)They HAVE to collect EVERYTHING so when the next terrorist attack happens they can't be accused of not doing enough.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)but EVERY body knows what a narcissist he is, and he has this suspicous
twitch, that I KNOW means he's always lying. I learned that on Bones ...
euh .. or was it Lie To Me? I can't remember now.
leeroysphitz
(10,462 posts)She's probably good for an ounce of kush...

