Message auto-removed

[Name removed]

[randome]

1. Because he didn't steal national security documents, run off to China...

...leak information that endangered people's lives to Der Spiegel and then claim "I am not here to hide from justice".

That's why.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[morningfog]

9. The "endangered lives" claim is dubious at this point.

That same claim was repeated often with regards to Manning, and ultimately admitted to be false.

[rhett o rick]

17. Again you claim he leaked "information that endangered people's lives." Please show evidence. nm

[Th1onein]

19. Puh-leeze, Rhett o Rick! Stop asking for evidence!

Isn't it enough that they state it as a fact over and over again, fer God's sake?

[rhett o rick]

22. Posted in wrong place. nm

Last edited Sat Jul 20, 2013, 03:48 PM - Edit history (1)

[arely staircase]

36. here

"SPIEGEL has decided not to publish details it has seen about secret operations that could endanger the lives of NSA workers."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/secret-documents-nsa-targeted-germany-and-eu-buildings-a-908609-3.html



http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023263702

[rhett o rick]

37. Thank you. That was a very enlightening article that I hadnt seen. If we believe the article then

there are lots of people that believe that the NSA is collecting data on all Americans and many foreigners. It doesnt matter if Snowden himself convinced people that we are collecting data on millions, what matters is that others are coming forward to confirm that massive spying is going on. To keep perspective, what Snowden did pales in comparison to what the NSA is doing.

It doesnt make sense to say that Snowden gave valuable material to foreigners then turn around and say that the material is worthless (i.e., the NSA isnt spying on all Americans).

[FarCenter]

2. Because he's a US citizen and his actions in Italy were on behalf of official Washington?

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

3. Because it's ok when they break the law

it's just not ok when 'we' break the 'law' exposing their illegal activity.

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

4. He was doing his job. nt

[morningfog]

7. Kidnapping and torture all in a days work.

[GoneFishin]

12. Really? The Nuremberg defense? n/t.

[rhett o rick]

18. Sure he was "youst vollovink orters". Maybe those giving the orders should be prosecuted.

What do you think?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. Shouldn't he be "hero" and go back to Italy to take responsibility for his crime?

Like some here want Snowden to do for whistle blowing.

[byeya]

5. Weren't there 4 alleged CIA agents convicted of kinapping in Italy and all are protected

by the US government from extradition?

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Yes

[forestpath]

6. K&R

[SidDithers]

8. Greenwald. LOL...nt

Sid

[morningfog]

10. For such a non-serious guy, he is causing the Obama Administration

considerable headache.

[SidDithers]

11. He's a self-promoting clown...

Who's been flinging mud at the Obama administration since they took office. He finally got a "scandal" that resonates, and he's milking it for all the publicity and exposure he can.

Sid

[morningfog]

15. Regardless, the "clown" is likely not being laughed at by Obama.

Trade deals are in limbo, threats are being leveled against countless nations and others are scoffing at Obama's demands.

[Fumesucker]

13. Because kidnapping and torture are condoned by the political class

Just as long as those actions are for the perceived benefit of the political class they are fine, praiseworthy even.

[HiPointDem]

24. blowing up airplanes is ok too.

Orlando Bosch Ávila (18 August 1926 – 27 April 2011)[1] was a Cuban exile terrorist, former Central Intelligence Agency-backed operative...

He was accused of taking part in Operation Condor and several other terrorist attacks, including the 6 October 1976 bombing of a Cuban civilian airliner in which all 73 people on board were killed, including many young members of a Cuban fencing team and five North Koreans...

Bosch was given safe haven within the US in 1990 by President George H. W. Bush, who in 1976 as head of the CIA had declined an offer by Costa Rica to extradite Bosch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_Bosch

[GoneFishin]

14. Because we only pay lip service to international law.

Fucking hypocrites.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. Well, it was only kidnapping. If it was done here we would just giggle about it.

And, give a bouquet of roses and a Bon Voyage when he flees.

Wouldn't we?

[Rex]

23. Justice is only in the eye of the beholder.

Not sure which one, try not to look at any of them.

[zappaman]

26. I believe that's an old Danish saying?

Something smells rotten...

[Rex]

28. No that's just a cheese danish

the somehow fell behind the passengers seat. Kinda green and funky looking now. I was gonna toss it, but it only has a few hairs on it. Hungry?

[zappaman]

30. If it hasn't violated the 5 second rule..

then sure...hand it over!

[Rex]

32. Okay...5 second geological time

or like, 5 seconds we came to a sudden stop and it fell on the floor time? For the record, I think it crawled from the hatchback to the passengers seat. Indeed something smells rotten on that cheese Danish er Denmark.

[avaistheone1]

29. It's not just beauty any more that is?

[Rex]

35. Not just for beauty any more.

Everything is in the eye of the beholder...look at all those eyes man! He got a lot of them!

[WillyT]

25. K & R !!!

[99th_Monkey]

27. Answer: Because Washington is 2-faced. ~nt

[Joe Hyperion]

31. Because the government is hypocritical

Lady didn't embarrass the US government by telling the people they were being spied on even though they were not suspected of terrorism.

[Catherina]

33. Wikileaks puts this story into proper perspective. File under #hypocrisy

A little DU history here

A recent Guardian article I just pulled up after these tweets from Wikileaks and an Italian journalist

WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks 23h

After US pressure, Panama releases fugitive CIA operative wanted by Italy | WaPo http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/panama-releases-former-cia-operative-wanted-by-italy/2013/07/19/c73ebc12-f083-11e2-a1f9-ea873b7e0424_story.html …

stefania maurizi ‏@SMaurizi 2h

WikiLeaks cables provide invaluable documentary evidence on how US left no stone unturned 2stop Italian magistrates on #AbuOmar #RobertSLady

stefania maurizi ‏@SMaurizi 8h

WikiLeaks cables CRUCIAL to reveal how US disrupted Italy's justice on Abu Omar rendition #RobertSLady http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/13/italy-cia-rendition-abu-omar …

Der Spiegel described just what a standard kidnapping it was: Nasr "was seized in broad daylight on the open street, pushed into a white van, taken to the Aviano military airport and then flown to Egypt via the US Ramstein Air Base in Germany". Yesterday, an Italian appellate court sentenced the country's former intelligence chief, Niccolò Pollari, to ten years in prison "for complicity" in that kidnapping:

The appeals court, in Milan, sentenced the former chief, Niccolò Pollari, to 10 years and his former deputy Marco Mancini to nine years for their role in the kidnapping of the cleric, Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr . . . . Three Italian secret service officials were also sentenced to six years each.

Mr. Nasr was kidnapped under the practice of 'extraordinary rendition', in which people suspected of being Islamic militants were abducted in one country and then transferred to another, often one where torture was common.

While Mr. Nasr was initially charged with membership in an illegal organization, the charges were ultimately dropped. He has since been released.

...

Despite being convicted of no crime (other than criticizing US aggression), he was imprisoned in Egypt without charges for four years until a Cairo court found his detention unfounded and ordered him released. Upon release, he said "he had been reduced to a 'human wreck' by torture he had undergone in a Cairo jail". Nasr detailed the truly horrific kidnapping and torture he endured in a 2008 interview with Peter Bergen for Mother Jones, who used Italian court documents to write a comprehensive report on the case:

...

"Spreading his arms in a crucifixion position, he demonstrates how he was tied to a metal door as shocks were administered to his nipples and genitals. His legs tremble as he describes how he was twice raped. He mentions, almost casually, the hearing loss in his left ear from the beatings, and how he still wakes up at night screaming, takes tranquilizers, finds it hard to concentrate, and has unspecified 'problems with my wife at home.' He is, in short, a broken man."

In sum, US officials are not subject to the rule of law but reside above it. Neither party's establishment nor their Adversarial Press Corps would ever tolerate the CIA Director being prosecuted for his crimes the way Italy's just was. The defense offered to the press by Lady, the CIA's Milan station chief - I was just following orders - is exactly what resonates in US elite circles as an excuse for all crimes: if the US government does it, then it is, by definition, shielded from legal punishment.

Second, both Bush and Obama officials continuously attempted to apply coercive pressure on Italian magistrates to obstruct this investigation, and when that failed, applied the same pressure to the Berlusconi and Prodi governments. Indeed, numerous diplomatic cables published by WikiLeaks detail those efforts, and the Italian journalist Stefania Maurizi of L'Espresso described that campaign of obstruction in her book "Dossier WikiLeaks. Segreti Italiani."

...

This US pressure campaign succeeded in quashing the efforts of the Italian judiciary to hold these CIA agents criminally accountable for their crimes in Italy. Indeed, as Maurizi told me yesterday, "five different Italian ministers of Justice refused to forward extradition requests for CIA agents." After Italy's highest court upheld the convictions of the CIA agents last September, the Guardian noted: "successive Italian governments denied all knowledge of the case and consistently ruled out extradition."

...

http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/13/italy-cia-rendition-abu-omar

[Vinnie From Indy]

34. The answer here is simple - we are an empire!

This man was one of our "equites" serving in a foreign land with the full faith and credit of the established political order in the US.