Did Helen Thomas ever apologize for her anti-Semitic speech?

[Nye Bevan]

Last edited Mon Jul 22, 2013, 12:36 AM - Edit history (1)

If not, why not?

During the speech, Thomas said: "Congress, the White House, Hollywood and Wall Street are owned by Zionists. No question, in my opinion." Thomas defended her comments on December 7, telling Scott Spears of Marion, Ohio AM radio station WMRN, "I just think that people should be enlightened as to who is in charge of the opinion in this country."

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Helen_Thomas&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop


ON EDIT: 160+ responses, not one of which contains any kind of link to an apology for this speech. So it looks like the answer is "no".

[PDJane]

1. I think she was forced to,

But don't think she should have been.

[Nye Bevan]

5. You think her assertion was true, and not offensive? (nt)

[PDJane]

14. I think that being against a Zionist mindset is not the same as being anti-semitic.

Whether it's true or not, the US certainly spends a great deal on Arming the "Only Democracy in The Middle East." I don't actually think that you can have a religious democracy, but that's another tale.

There are a lot of people who hold unpopular viewpoints, and I should know, but I will say that the uproar about her 'anti-semitic' statements give some support to the assertion.

[Major Nikon]

109. As Thomas said, she is a Semite

Lots of Jewish people are anti-Zionists. Noam Chomsky is another good example. The ADL characterizes everything that is anti-Jewish state policy as anti-Semitic. That doesn't make it so.

[pangaia]

26. Yes, I found it truthful and not at all offensive.

[Nye Bevan]

33. So the White House, under President Obama, is quite literally "owned by Zionists".

OK.

[Cha]

83. Actually it's bullshite, but

whatever.

[Major Nikon]

119. It's no different than people who claim politicians are owned by corporate interests

It's obvious hyperbole not intended to be taken literally. One would have to be pretty naive to assume that political Zionism doesn't exist in Washington.

[b.durruti]

68. +1 ~nt~

[Warpy]

49. Of course it was true.

That's why so many people found it offensive.

Again, being anti Zionist is not the same as being an antisemite.

[b.durruti]

69. +1 ~nt~

[Donald Ian Rankin]

162. What she *said* was certainly true; it's possible what she *meant* wasn't.

America *is* utterly controlled by zionists - I defy you to point me to one anti-zionist in a position of power or influence (this is the major reason Palestine is still occupied). The president is a zionist; the cabinet are exclusively zionists, the senate and the congress are virtually exclusively zionists. The appointment of moderate zionists like Grassley and Power is hailed as a scandal because they're not pro-Israel enough; no genuine anti-zionist would ever get anywhere senior. I'm sure it's nearly as bad on Wall St; Hollywood may be slightly better but probably not much.

"Zionists" is often used as a codeword for "Jews". America is clearly not controlled by Jews, and nor are Hollywood or Wall St.

Whether or not Thomas was using it as a codeword, I don't know.

[Nye Bevan]

163. Has everyone in Wall Street and Hollywood publicly expressed their position on Zionism? (nt)

[Donald Ian Rankin]

165. No, hence only "nearly as bad", not "as bad". N.T.

[jessie04]

166. "America *is* utterly controlled by zionists"

[Donald Ian Rankin]

168. Hell yes. Read the damn post. N.T.

[demmiblue]

2. Is there anything that you won't shit stir?

[southernyankeebelle]

4. Why should you talk like that? A question was asked and she gave her opinion.

You don't have to get nasty. By the way I didn't agree with Ms Thomas but she is entitled to her beliefs. I will miss her alot because she held their feet to the fire. No question was a bad question. She spoke truth to power.

[Nye Bevan]

8. This was a speech, not an off-the-cuff response to a question (nt)

[southernyankeebelle]

23. Like I said before we may not agree but that was her personal opinion and last time

I checked there is freedom of the press and speech.

[Nye Bevan]

34. I agree. Hateful anti-Semitism, whether spewed by Mel Gibson or Helen Thomas,

is protected by the First Amendment.

[PDJane]

47. One more time. You can be anti-zionist, which is a philosophy, with out being anti-semitic,

Which has been taken to mean anti-jewish.

[malaise]

52. +1,000 n/t

[uppityperson]

54. +++

[southernyankeebelle]

50. You know her family background is Lebanese so she is looking it from her history background.

I don't fault her for that. I can understand it but I don't agree with her.

[Trajan]

59. You keep conflating the two terms ...

It is a misdirection, and it is fallacious ....

STOP trying to hoodwink your fellow DUers with misrepresentations of the terms ...

[Tom Ripley]

160. +1000

[hobbit709]

13. De mortuis nihil nisi bonum

[Dreamer Tatum]

24. How do you say "unless we don't like them" in Latin? Nt

[sgtbenobo]

48. Dreamer T

You are priceless.

Carry on!

[southernyankeebelle]

30. I am not speaking ill of the dead. I just asked why someone would make a nasty comment.

I like Ms Thomas very much.

[hobbit709]

39. I meant the OP.

[southernyankeebelle]

46. Oh, LOL sorry I thought you meant me. Oops

[Spider Jerusalem]

41. On doit des égards aux vivants ; on ne doit aux morts que la vérité.

("We owe respect to the living; to the dead we owe only the truth.&quot

[demmiblue]

15. Perhaps because I have seen enough from this poster to know exactly what this is. n/t

[southernyankeebelle]

22. sad.

[demmiblue]

27. No, not sad at all... just an observation. n/t

[galileoreloaded]

42. your like the DU version of Zimmerman eh? stay in your truck pls. nt

[uppityperson]

55. Those who can not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Big difference between being able to remember what someone posts and profiling, stalking, killing a teenager.

[demmiblue]

103. Heh!

A strange leap, indeed!

Demmiblue: DU's Zimmerman!

Strangely enough, I was called to jury one of his posts soon after his comment to me (the jury decided to hide his post).

[uppityperson]

113. Whoah, check out his transparency page

[Spazito]

146. I did as you suggested and found he has been shown the door by EarlG!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=223417&sub=trans

Thanks, EarlG!

[Spazito]

149. Mine too, seaglass, mine too! n/t

[uppityperson]

150. Thank you EarlG. That was a good ppr for a lot of reasons.

[Starry Messenger]

154. "Misogynist"--thank you Earl.

Although now certain quarters will be sad to miss their friend. Great PPR.

[demmiblue]

156. My golden uterus and I also thank EarlG.

Shoot, I don't plan on using my golden uterus... I wish I could sell it and go on an around-the-world adventure (I hear the price of gold is pretty good right now).

[cprompt]

90. because

The op could've found the answer on Google instead of post a flame bait thread the day of the death

[southernyankeebelle]

96. maybe the op didn't think about the google before posting it.

[Hekate]

111. I'm sorry, southernyankeebelle, but...

... what some here are trying to say is that the OP has an agenda. It's an agenda that sticks out all over him. It's an agenda that don't need no stinkin' google, senor. Nobody needs to "stalk" the OP to ultimately just see it for what it is.

And at this moment in time, on the day of the death of a truly great woman, he wants to smear her with anti-Semitism (a religious and cultural hatred that has caused the deaths of millions) when what she apparently may have been was anti-Zionist (a political position regarding the State of Israel and its behavior in the world). Furthermore, she was a frail 90 when she expressed this opinion, so she certainly wasn't cheering on any pogroms.

Hekate

[southernyankeebelle]

135. Well I don't know anything about the person who put the original post. But I think

the poster is entitled to post what they want. His post didn't effect me. I still think she was a great reporter. All am saying is people don't have to get so nasty when posting something we don't like. We all know she was a great reporter.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

155. I've been online with people who act like they don't have access to the internet.

[Bonhomme Richard]

11. +1. It seems that the Snowden affair has allowed .....

quite a few to drop their cloaks.
Why go after a woman over a comment when she spent her life trying to enlighten the rest of us. That is, of course, if you are not looking at it as an angle.

[Raine]

25. Totally agree. nt

[Bonhomme Richard]

31. i used to have email correspondence with her.

She was a good person.
So let them throw the shit. That is irrelevant.

[11 Bravo]

73. As did I. I was frankly astounded that she would take the time to respond ...

to an anonymous fan. We corresponded several times over the years. She will be missed.

[BlueMTexpat]

64. Same here. eom

[Hekate]

112. +2, Bonhomme Richard. nt

[SecularMotion]

32. +1

[burnodo]

80. +1000

[morningfog]

94. Actually, there is one specific area that is his shit stirring specialty. Racism.

If there is a thread on race and racism, you can bet to find him shitting in it.

[KittyWampus]

3. Helen Thomas might very well have succumbed to old age slowly taking her higher brain functions

old age and strokes have a tendency to allow the dreck that resides in the bottom of our collective unconscious to surface.

[FarPoint]

9. I totally agree...

The medical clinical issues of Helen Thomas were identified back when the remarks were expressed ...and then the controversy was over.

[Nye Bevan]

143. Dementia certainly would be the most charitable explanation.

But you would think that at some point she would have a lucid moment where she would have realized what she had said, and apologize.

[Spider Jerusalem]

6. Not so much

IIRC she said "I can't be anti-Semitic, I'm a Semite!" (Which is the same sort of nonsensical parsing of language that's a favourite parlour game of those who try to redefine "anti-Semitic" to mean something other than "anti-Jewish".)

[leveymg]

18. The Semitic peoples include the Lebanese Chaldeans. She is technically correct.

Depends upon how narrowly you define Semitic.

In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם‎, translated as "name", Arabic: ساميّ‎ was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Ahlamu, Akkadian (Assyrian-Babylonian), Amharic, Amorite, Arabic, Aramaic/Syriac, Canaanite/Phoenician/Carthaginian, Chaldean, Eblaite, Edomite, Ge'ez, Hebrew, Maltese, Mandaic, Moabite, Sutean, Tigre and Tigrinya, and Ugaritic, among others.

[Spider Jerusalem]

29. Anyone who makes that argument is a moron.

The word "anti-Semitic" was coined by a German called Wilhelm Marr in the latter half of the 19th century, to specifically mean what we would otherwise call "Jew-hatred" (auf Deutsch: Jüdenhaß). Every accepted definition of the term defines it specifically as "hostility toward and prejudice against Jews as an ethnic, religious, or racial group".

[leveymg]

86. That is just one of several accepted meanings, the narrow one you accept.

I sincerely doubt that Helen Thomas was an anti-Semite, and her statement does not make her one.

[Spider Jerusalem]

87. It is the ONLY accepted meaning of the term "anti-Semite".

Find a dictionary that says otherwise.

[leveymg]

91. It was a clever turn of phrase. Some people aren't dependent upon dictionaries for meaning.

Apparently that sort of word play is lost on humorless pedants. It is possible to have a sharp tongue without being hateful.

But, that sort of nuance may not be well understood by those who live in a compartmentalized world of absolutes. Get my meaning?

Good night.

[Spider Jerusalem]

93. It's not clever at all.

It's a tactic that has its origins in Arab anti-Semitism post-1948; "but how can we be anti-Semitic? We're Semites!"

There's nothing "nuanced" about it. (and for what it's worth? Anyone who equates the actions of the state of Israel with "the Jews" or "Zionists" as a collective group? Is an anti-Semite. And that includes Helen Thomas.)

[pennylane100]

75. Apparently there are a lot of dictionaries that also like parlor games.

Semitic - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster ...

Definition of SEMITIC. 1: of, relating to, or constituting a subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic language family that includes Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, and Amharic
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/semitic

Semitic people - definition of Semitic people by the Free ...

Se·mit·ic (s-m t k) adj. 1. Of or relating to the Semites or their languages or cultures. 2. Of, relating to, or constituting a subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic language group that includes Arabic, Hebrew, Amharic, and Aramaic.
thefreedictionary.com/Semitic+people
More from thefreedictionary.com

Semitic people - Definition | WordIQ.com - Dictionary ...

Semitic is an adjective which in common parlance " MISTAKENLY" refers specifically to Jewish things, while the term actually refers to things originating among speakers of Semitic languages or people descended from them, and in a linguistic context to the northeastern subfamily of Afro-Asiatic.
wordiq.com/definition/Semitic_people
More from wordiq.com

What is meant by semitic , and who are the semitic people , can you list them...

Semites are peoples who speak Semitic languages; the group includes Jews Arabs Aramaeans and some Ethiopians. In a Biblical sense...
in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110508072104AAwiw4x
More from in.answers.yahoo.com

[oberliner]

77. Right, but antisemitism has nothing to do with Semites

I think that's where the confusion comes in sometimes.

[Spider Jerusalem]

84. You seem to be the one playing parlour games.

Here, I'll save you the trouble of looking up "anti-Semitism":

an·ti-Sem·ite (nt-smt, nt-)
n.
One who discriminates against or who is hostile toward or prejudiced against Jews.
anti-Se·mitic (-s-mtk) adj.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/anti-Semitic

an·ti–Sem·i·tism
noun \ˌan-tē-ˈse-mə-ˌti-zəm, ˌan-ˌtī-\
Definition of ANTI-SEMITISM
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-semitism

anti-Semitism

noun
[mass noun]

hostility to or prejudice against Jews.

Derivatives

anti-Semite
noun
anti-Semitic
adjective

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/anti--Semitism

Linguistically and ethnographically, many people besides Jews may be described as "Semitic peoples", but "anti-Semitism" only ever refers to Jews. Full stop.

[hlthe2b]

7. A story on her apology from Faux News website no less... took me 2 seconds to locate....

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/04/white-house-reporter-helen-thomas-apologizes-saying-jews-hell-palestine/

But, if you are going to rehash this at this late juncture and on this day, all I can say is that is incredibly unfortunate, insensitive, and unseemly. It was fully argued to the nth degree on DU2 at the time it occurred. I'm sure a search will bring up tons of those old contentious threads.

[tammywammy]

12. That's a separate incident

That's when she said Jews should “get the hell out of Palestine.”

Later on is when she said the Jews controlled Congress, Hollywood, and Wall Street.

[Cali_Democrat]

120. Interesting how she used the word Jews and not Israelis

[Nye Bevan]

17. No, that's an apology for something different.

That was an apology for when she said that "the Jews should get the hell out of Palestine".

But thanks anyway for trying.

[madrchsod]

82. yup that was an interesting time here....

[MichiganVote]

10. If ever I live into my nineties, I plan to say whatever I want

And I won't be apologizing for single vowel. Helen Thomas was entitled to her free speech whether you, or others, are offended.

I'm willing to bet she led a far more interesting and impact full life than you or I.

[Bonhomme Richard]

16. +1 n/t

[Nye Bevan]

21. Are you planning on claiming that the White House and Congress are owned by Zionists? (nt)

[MichiganVote]

37. Nah, but I'm willing to claim that you lack a social group,

Have difficulty accepting no, and cry when you don't get your way about things. Other than that I'm sure you're at least half as nice a person as Helen.

[Nye Bevan]

43. Ummmm..... OK.

Have a great day.

[Egnever]

107. +1

[Hekate]

116. When I'm 90 I'm planning on claiming that you, sir, do not exist in the same Universe as I.

See how that works?

[Dreamer Tatum]

28. "My life was interesting, and I am old, so

I am entitled to spew hatred at Jews."


Wow.

[Nye Bevan]

35. Sounds like he can hardly wait (nt)

[Hekate]

117. Except she didn't. She objected to the political behavior of the State of Israel...

... and its uncritical US supporters in DC.

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

19. One mistake, or even a few, shouldn't negate a whole person's life/career.

RIP HELEN.

[Cha]

85. I agree.. Helen did some really

great things in her life.

[Violet_Crumble]

20. I don't know. What does it matter now? Didn't she just die? n/t

[Junkdrawer]

36. Stay Classy.. n/t

[NoOneMan]

38. Are all Zionists Semites? Are all Semites Zionists?

I'm not sure the OP makes sense

[Junkdrawer]

44. "Did Helen Thomas ever apologize for her anti-Zionist speech?" just doesn't

produce the desired outrage.

[byeya]

137. Good point! Zionism, coined by Herzl I think, is an imperialistic mindset that advocates the

takeover and ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Zionists conflate anti-zionism and anti-Jewish sentiment to further the takeover.

Thomas had nothing to apologize for. Neither does Jimmy Carter.

[Union Scribe]

45. I'd guess that in the US most Zionists

are end-of-days fundamentalist Christians.

[Hekate]

124. That's a strange alliance of Orthodox & fundy, that is. The fundies support the State of Israel...

... but believe all the Jews will fry for eternity in Hell. The ultra-Orthodox and the fundies both want the "Biblical borders of Israel restored" -- something the State of Israel emphatically does NOT, because attempting to do so in this day and age would cause WW III to break out in the Middle East immediately. The Ultra-Orthodox just want the Messiah to show up, and the secular State of Israel has no validity in their minds until He does. The ultra-fundamentalist Christians just want the Messiah to come again, and boy do they have some interesting fantasies about that. Those are the religious Zionists.

Meanwhile in Washington DC and elsewhere, it makes good politics for the GOP to manipulate both groups for their own ends. Bush Jr. certainly yanked their chains a lot. Those are the political Zionists. The Dems have always supported Israel, so for them it's a habit and a calculation rather different than the GOP version.

[byeya]

144. Yes. The Evilgelicals want Israel restored so Gawd can come back and kill them all whilst taking

the god-fearing up to eternally climate controlled heaven.

[typeviic]

40. Congress sure is

AIPAC gives those creatures in Congress their marching orders.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

51. You are completely lacking human dignity

The fact is you want to stir controversy and make it about you on the day a journalist who was universally lionized for her life's work passed away.

You are a sad, sad little person.

[Junkdrawer]

56. +1

[kas125]

98. Thank you. I was trying to find the words, but yours echo my thoughts

exactly. What a horrible, sad, little person. Ugh.

[Spazito]

99. Well said! n/t

[MrMickeysMom]

104. Yeppers...

Sure are...

[Tom Ripley]

161. +1000

[Douglas Carpenter]

53. In a media culture where anti-Arab and anti-Muslim ravings are so common place - it is not even

noticed even in the most liberal of circles. It is is even permitted here on one of the most left-wing discussion forums on the Internet - In a media culture where an unabashedly and completely unapologetic racist and bigot like Bob Schieffer is considered such a distinguished expert on foreign policy that he is chosen as the sole moderator for the only national debate on foreign policy during the Presidential race. In a media culture where "experts" with opinions every bit as extreme as the anti-Semitic ravings of David Duke are treated as intellectual commentators. In such a culture for an elderly American-Arab women on two or three occasions in their entire life to let off some inappropriate remarks after a lifetime of being one of the greatest journalist in all of American history - is a rather small thing to fault.

[Cooley Hurd]

57. Helen Thomas was a giant of a human being...

...so much so that her PERSONAL opinion on one topic means nothing in the larger fabric that was her life.

You should be ashamed of yourself for this OP.

[Drew Richards]

58. I agree with Helen Israel should get the fuck out of Palestine does tha make me anti-semite and

Does that make my entire lifes work worthless because my opinion differs from yours?

You know what is just as bad as a Fascist? A Militant Zionist....they are one in the same in my eyes.

The flags should be at half staff for her contributions to this country and journalism. More then any freekin actor or entertainer...

This OP is nothing but hate speech clocked as a "question" pathetic.

[Nye Bevan]

62. Do you also agree that Zionists "own" President Obama's White House? (nt)

[Drew Richards]

67. I have no proof to either confirm or deny that assertion...and frankly neither do you but keep

Spewing the hate after all it is still your right to speak your mind even if my opinion is that you, as a person, from your works, don't hold a candle to the honorable Helen Thomas.

[ZRT2209]

102. +1

I'm with President Carter on this one

[jessie04]

157. "Israel should get the fuck out of Palestine"

And you "agree with her".

Like when she said jews should get out of Israel and go somewhere else.

That's some serious hatred youre carrying around.

[Logical]

60. A normal person would not ask this question today. Why did you? n-t

[b.durruti]

70. exactly. ~nt~

[Violet_Crumble]

71. I aasked a similar question and they ignored it

So I wouldnt hold my breath waiting for an answer

[Logical]

74. Figures! n-t

[Vinnie From Indy]

61. A brilliant display of passive/aggressive! Huzzah!

Would it not be more technically correct to offer that Helen made a comment that was a bit too extreme rather than Helen gave an "anti-Semitic" speech?

In a mildly amusing way, you are somewhat guilty of the same sin as Helen only to a slightly less degree.

Cheers!

[Nye Bevan]

145. Passive-aggressive? Me?

Fine. Whatever.

[Electric Monk]

63. It has been mentioned before, but is also worth repeating, that the real Aneurin Bevan

would probably deeply resent your appropriation of his name as you have done here on DU.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/aneurin_bevan.html

The Tories, every election, must have a bogy man. If you haven't got a programme, a bogy man will do.
- Aneurin Bevan

It is not possible to create peace in the Middle East by jeopardizing the peace of the world.
- Aneurin Bevan

[Eddie Haskell]

65. There's a difference between a Semite and a Zionist

Why was she forced to apologize for the truth?

[ZombieHorde]

66. I wonder what exactly she means by that claim.

The second quote seems to clarify the first quote. Do you think she is saying that the opinions of Congress, etc. are owned by those who support the rhetorical construct of Israel?

Is this a hyperbolic way of saying Zionism is a popular belief in Congress, the White House, Hollywood, and Wall Street?

[Eddie Haskell]

72. In support of Israel we're financing al-Qaida linked "Freedom Fighters" in Syria

Congress gave the military authority to detain any one of us indefinitely, without a trial, based solely on the accusation that we have done what the U.S. does every day in Syria -- support a group associated with al-Qaida?

I find the hypocrisy mind-blowing.

[oberliner]

76. In support of Israel?

What the heck are you talking about?

[Eddie Haskell]

142. War!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/world/middleeast/israel-airstrike-targeted-advanced-missiles-that-russia-sold-to-syria-us-says.html?_r=0

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/25/iran-commander-syria-conflict-end-israel-falls/

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/20/19060599-syria-spillover-violence-threatens-cease-fire-with-israel?lite

http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/UNs-Ban-warns-of-renewed-Syria-Israel-conflict-316353

[oberliner]

153. I don't see where any of those articles support your hypothesis

There were a lot of factors involved in the US deciding to get involved with Syria.

In fact, it seems like Israel would rather have the current regime in power due to their relative stability.

[The Second Stone]

78. I think that the OP is anti-Semetic

in that many of the world's Jews are and have for a long time been opposed to Zionism.

Zionism is the political movement that espouses for the nation of Israel in the borders that it has waged violent conflict to conquer. There are in fact many Jews opposed to this because it disenfranchises millions of people who call themselves Palestinians without due process of law.

The American government, Wall Street and the media exclude entirely the point of view that this is a repugnant thing to do to Palestinians and a subset of Zionists immediately engage in a defamation campaign against any person who suggests that legal norms should apply to Palestinians and that they should be treated equally. This defamation campaign usually takes the form of calling these people anti-Semites, as the OP does.

As someone with Jewish ancestry, it is glaringly obvious to me that Zionism oppresses Palestinians, and that the subset of Zionists that use defamation to ostracize critics of the oppressive results of Zionism is, in the long run and the short run, no different than any of history's other defamation campaigns, most glaringly that carried out for a thousand years against Jews. It is evil, short-sighted and in the long run puts people with Jewish ancestry in more danger.

[Hekate]

126. Thank you for that thought-provoking point of view.

There is certainly diversity of opinion among Israeli and American Jews, and several groups working for a peaceful resolution to the Palestinian question.

[dembotoz]

79. who the hell cares

[PDJane]

81. Not only does Israel suppress Palestinians, but those settlements and that oppression

are illegal under the international law that the US itself helped to write. Zionism is a way to justify theft by using a book of myths and legends to do so. It's obscene.

[LuvNewcastle]

133. +1000

Everything you said is spot on.

[thelordofhell]

88. Yes

[Puglover]

89. LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Helen Thomas is dead and instead of speaking about the hundreds of good things she did in her life I'm gonna bring up the crap. Before she's even in the ground!

LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

How edgy.

[kestrel91316]

92. In light of the rise of the Koch brothers and American christofascism,

I actually find some completely non-antisemitic truth in her words.

Fundies are extremely Zionist and hate muslims in large part because they wish to USE the Jews to accomplish their armageddon/apocalypse plans as foretold in the bible. You know, all that rapture BS?? And the Koch brothers are among those who appear to believe that, along with half the Supreme Court and a large percentage of elected repukes. We all know that RW-led corporations and the 1% run things, and not The People.

So in a way she was completely correct, and one need not even bring anti-semitism into the discussion. It's NOT about the Jews, per se. It's about biblical prophesy.

[Hekate]

129. Amen, so to speak

Kestrel -- it may amuse you to see I compared her to a species of hawk here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3306177

[Agnosticsherbet]

95. What difference does it make?

She was an important figure in women's rights. Now that she's gone, we should remember the historic things she did.

[hrmjustin]

97. She died today, could we have waited at least a day before talking about this!

[ZRT2209]

100. NO SHE NEVER DID! SHE IS A HORRIBLE HORRIBLE EVIL PERSON!!!!!!!

AND TODAY IS AN APPROPRIATE DAY TO MAKE THAT POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DisgustipatedinCA]

101. One hundred responses and not a single rec

I'm not a natural with math, but I'm pretty sure this vile thread has lower approval ratings than either Dick Cheney or Congress.

[Hekate]

105. You take a frail 90 year old woman and play gotcha with her? Must be fun, is all I can say.

It must be great sport, sir. Kind of like bringing down a species of hawk that's almost extinct.

Helen Thomas was a great reporter, fearless and gutsy, and spoke truth to power in ways most of us could only dream of. Let her rest in peace.

Hekate

[Nye Bevan]

125. I don't deny that she had a distinguished journalistic career.

But that makes her anti-Semitic comments and speeches all the more disappointing.

[Hekate]

127. That's your story and you're sticking to it. But it's not the truth. nt

[Nye Bevan]

128. You're denying that she had a distinguished journalistic career? (nt)

[Hekate]

130. I'm denying you are in my universe, as I will do when I am 90, because you are specious and shallow.

[Nye Bevan]

131. Understood. Well, thanks for your opinion anyway (nt)

[cpwm17]

108. +1,000,000

[Nye Bevan]

114. Eloquent and thought-provoking? Certainly.

But that doesn't really answer the question.

[Violet_Crumble]

132. I'll ask again. What's yr point in posting this when she's just died?

I noticed several people have asked you the same thing and you've not answered any of them. It's coming across like you have an issue with people mourning her passing and you want to focus on the few negative things about her later in her life rather than praise her for the great things she said and did for most of her life...

[cpwm17]

110. After the US has uncritically supported Israel for so long, very much against our own interest

while Israel brutally abuses and expels the Palestinians for being members of the wrong religion; and now you're worried about what Helen Thomas said?!

Why don't you worry about the real bigots: supporters of Apartheid Israel.

[Starry Messenger]

115. Any other coffins you'd like to use as your stage today?

This OP is 100% hilarious coming from a poster who vociferously defends hate speech like "illegals"

[lpbk2713]

118. You make a great case for bringing back the unrec feature.

[Nye Bevan]

122. It wouldn't have made a difference in this case.

No recs to cancel out!

But then I've never exactly been a rec-troller.

On edit: I would fully support the return of unrec. My ability to unrec down crappy threads ("NATIONALIZE THE OIL COMPANIES AND APPLE AND SEND TIM COOK TO PRISON&quot would more than make up for the ability of others to unrec down my threads.

[Cali_Democrat]

121. You should probably self-delete this

[Nye Bevan]

123. No, but you are welcome to alert on it,

and if a DU jury decides that my post violates community standards, I will accept that decision.

[pansypoo53219]

134. i wouldn't call it anti-semetic.

it was anti ISRAEL.

[Nye Bevan]

136. To quote Skinner (the owner of DU):

Helen Thomas did have a long and distinguished career.

But comments (by her or anyone else) about how "Zionists" control the government, the media, and financial industry -- and references to their money -- are UGLY. At the very least, they reference UGLY STEREOTYPES. We are better than this.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9680652&mesg_id=9683016

Which I think nails it. I'm surprised by the number of DUers who claim that Thomas' speech was just fine.

[CTyankee]

139. I think the problem here is not distinguishing a difference between the state of Israel's existence

and disagreement with the views/actions of one of its political parties. Plenty of Israelis disagree with Netanyahu and arch conservatives in Israel, but support the right of Israel to exist. There are some here who are not making that distinction, but, sadly, I have also encountered DUers who feel the state of Israel, per se, should not exist.

Frankly, I would feel better about Thomas's remarks if they didn't smack of old fashioned anti-semitic sentiments dredged up from long ago. History tells us what happened. There are some here who do not consult history, perhaps because it is too painful to do so. And that is unfortunate. We need a debate that is informed by the facts of history, not one that does not engage the truth.

[Nye Bevan]

141. But "Wall Street" and "Hollywood" are "owned by Zionists"?

If you don't want to sound bigoted, you can say something like "the pro-Israel lobby has too much influence on the US Government". But throwing in that the Zionists control Wall Street and Hollywood, and never apologizing for that statement (I'm sure that if she had, someone in this thread would have said so) is very, very, ugly.

[CTyankee]

152. Perhaps her remarks are informed by what she was told growing up. But people here ought to know

better. it's very, very ugly as you said, but also ignorant.

[TransitJohn]

138. I don't remember anti-Semitic speech, but anti-Israeli speech

Disagreeing with the actions of the Likudniks does not equal anti-Semitism.
If I recall correctly, she said something like, "I'd tell them to get the hell out of Palestine!"
How that can be construed as anti-Semitic I don't know.

[Ruby the Liberal]

140. If those are accurate accounts, that is incredibly disappointing.

She spoke truth to power. Hell, Shrub wouldn't even take a question from her for years!

That said, I had no idea that she doubled down on a "jews own the media/banks" thought processes in her latter years. That makes me sad.

[backscatter712]

148. 146 replies, 1 rec. That says something. n/t

[Nye Bevan]

167. And in all of those replies, nobody has managed to find a link to an apology.

So I guess my question has been answered.

[Deep13]

151. I don't think that quote was the problem.

Frankly, if that is all she said, I'd have to agree. But she went further and said "the Jews" should leave Israel and go home to Europe and America. The problem isn't "the Jews," it's a few Jews who run Israel and enforce aggressive policies and a bunch of Evangelical Christians who run this country.

[jessie04]

158. This says something.... Hamas terrorists mourn Helen Thomas

Its good to be loved.

[Nye Bevan]

164. Awwww. How touching. (nt)

[Tom Ripley]

159. Did you ever cease confusing anti-zionism with anti-semitism?

If not, why not?