No one who has had sex with someone other than their spouse should ever be elected to office.

[last1standing]

Talk about being able to drown government in a bathtub. It's like playing a sexually repressed Grover Norquist.

[truebluegreen]

1. Like you, I'd prefer some sanity on this issue,

instead of moralizing and "righteousness"--especially since that is assessed unevenly (Republicans can just claim they have repented, and cry a little bit and it's all good).

[Ilsa]

2. I wouldn't mind so much if they

wouldn't use public media like Facebook and Twitter to broadcast their private sexual proclivities.

[last1standing]

5. Isn't that subjecting someone else's relationship to your standard?

We don't know what Weiner and his wife have agree to. She may be fine with his sexting and may even have her own thing going. Is that really our concern, regardless of how they do it?

[jzola]

8. Right on! Relationships are more than sex.

Someone outside can not judge what goes in inside that relationship.

[last1standing]

15. They shouldn't judge but obviously do.

n/t

[Ilsa]

9. In our society it opens it all up to criticism

by everyone. It distracts from admirable traits and policy positions. We should have been talking about what his platform would accomplish, not his judgment and impulse control.

I think there is something to be said for keeping some things private, not showboating them. I can't help but wonder if there is an exhibitionist personality here.

[last1standing]

12. Then it's time for society to change.

Just a few years ago, the same argument was made regularly about gay candidates. This isn't Weiner's problem, it's ours as a society.

[Ilsa]

19. Does a promise mean anything any more?

Vows were spoken. And it sounds to me like this WAS a problem for his wife:
“It took a lot of work and a lot of therapy to get to the place I am now,” Abedin said. “It was not an easy choice. But I made the decision to stay in this marriage. It was a choice I made for me, my son and our family.”

[last1standing]

21. He didn't promise you or me that he wouldn't sext with women other than his wife.

n/t

[onenote]

36. No. He told the public that what he did was wrong and that he was seeking "treatment"

Then he announced his return to public life and intentionally obscured the facts of his "recovery."
If he had said when he threw his hat in the ring not just that more stuff might come out but made it clear that he had not been able to control his behavior up until last fall, there wouldn't be much to the texts coming out now. But he tried to have it both ways and insulted the voting public with his approach.

[last1standing]

39. That's a whole lot of conditions to put on a candidate.

If we demanded that every person announce whether they had affairs or sexted before they could run for office, things might get complicated.

[onenote]

67. one that was caught, lied about it, lied about 'treatment'

presents a different set of facts and should be held to a different standard than someone who still is entitled to a presumption of innocence.

[last1standing]

68. I still see it as between him and his wife, not us.

I would either lie about my sex life if asked or say it's none of your business. He chose the former route and it's burning him but it has nothing to do with his ability to serve in public office.

[Ilsa]

14. BTW, based on her comments, it sounds to me

like this was a problem for her in their marriage.
“It took a lot of work and a lot of therapy to get to the place I am now,” Abedin said. “It was not an easy choice. But I made the decision to stay in this marriage. It was a choice I made for me, my son and our family.”

[last1standing]

20. And that was her decision, made with her husband.

It's not our place to be involved.

[Arkansas Granny]

10. This. As long as it's between consenting adults, I don't care

who's doing whom. When you put it out there on public media, however, you open yourself up to all sorts of criticism and vulnerability.

I'd wager that damn near all of us do something that someone else considers freaky or unnatural.

[Ilsa]

22. This is my point: some people are as addicted

to exhibitionism on public media. That's why I don't trust his judgment.

And yes, by his wife's comments, coming to terms with this took a lot of therapy and work.

[VanillaRhapsody]

60. some people are addicted to cigarettes

do you not vote for them either?

[Chan790]

92. We presume.

We don't know. It's one of those things you have to say because the inverse is unpolitic, rendering the truth of the matter indecipherable.

She very well can't say "I don't really give a f**k if my husband shows off his dick on the internet." It would not only reflect badly upon and go further to end his political career, it would reflect so poorly on the discretion entrusted in her by Sec. Clinton as to likely end Hillary's political career and her own.

It's just one of those things you cannot be honest about because Americans are prudes.

[Ilsa]

106. She could have remained silent, but she

Said this:
“It took a lot of work and a lot of therapy to get to the place I am now,” Abedin said. “It was not an easy choice. But I made the decision to stay in this marriage. It was a choice I made for me, my son and our family.”

That doesn't sound like someone who was not bothered by her husband's activities. That sounds like someone who was hurt.

[Dawson Leery]

3. It would be better if those born of the sexual act were banned from holding office.

[Nye Bevan]

4. I mean,who *hasn't* tweeted their cock to college girls? Sheesh. (nt)

[last1standing]

7. You might be very surprised by how many have.

And before sexting they did it with polaroids and before that they did it in person. The concept isn't new or unusual.

[hollysmom]

6. I have always said I would rather they screw someone other than their partner instead of

screwing the country

[Jenoch]

11. Only those who have not been

CAUGHT screwing someone other than their spouse should be elected to public office.

[last1standing]

13. That's really the standard some are advocating.

Keep it private. We shouldn't have to hear about it. He's an exhibitionist.

All ways of saying "keep me ignorant so I don't have to think."

[Squinch]

104. No, it's not "keep me ignorant so I don't have to think."

Whether you and I agree or not, getting caught sexting is absolutely and unequivocally going to create a media frenzy. Controlling the media's portrayal of you and your policies is part of the job of being a politician. Creating huge distractions is something that gets in the way of doing the job of a politician.

This guy knows all this. And sexting is one activity that you are almost guaranteed to get caught at. It's suicidal for someone in politics. It's enormously stupid. He's behaving in a way that is enormously stupid and makes it likely that his term, if he were ever elected, would be full of distractions.

It's not prudery. It's a recognition that this is a dumb guy who doesn't seem to be able to do the job he is asking us to elect him to.

Politicians have to play the game, whether you or they or I like it or not. He's proving himself incapable of that.

[InkPID]

16. Say what?

Who hasn't had sex with someone other than their spouse? The average man has 7 sexual partners in the course of his lifetime.

[surrealAmerican]

51. Welcome to DU ...

... where some posts employ sarcasm to make a point.

[Change has come]

75. How many average men...

are forced to resign from congress when pictures of their dick show up online?

Also, sexting isn't sex.

[ejpoeta]

102. how about vitter? he is still there. how many others.

for chrissake.... didn't mr appalachian trail just get elected to something?

[Squinch]

105. And so, probably, will Spitzer. But Weiner got caught, lied, lied some more, got caught AGAIN.

He's proving himself stupid. It's not prudery. It's recognition that his term, if he were elected, would be nothing but a big, annoying media frenzied distraction.

[FarCenter]

17. It's not the sex, it's the stupidity

If you are stupid enough to post this stuff on line, you are to stupid to be trusted with high office.

Besides, as far as I can tell from his bio, he has no executive experience and is totally unqualified to be a mayor of any city anywhere, much less New York.

[last1standing]

24. By your standard we should have re-elected bush the elder.

Bill was too stupid to hold office since he wasn't better at hiding his infidelity.

Do you see how little sense that makes?

[FarCenter]

38. If Gennifer Flowers had pictures of Clinton's private parts,

it wouldn't have mattered what Hilary said.

[last1standing]

41. Are you saying you would have voted for bush if you had proof of Clinton's affair?

I don't want to put words in your mouth but that's how I'm interpreting your post.

[FarCenter]

76. Possibly -- George H W Bush was a far better president than his idiot son

For example, the old man was astute enough to not invade Iraq.

[last1standing]

77. Please tell me that was a bad joke.

n/t

[FarCenter]

90. I've almost always voted for the Democrat running for president

But not happily. It is usually the case that the Democratic nominee is a slightly less poor choice than the Republican nominee.

Presidential candidates are a sorry lot.

[last1standing]

91. You do realize that H.W. Bush invaded Iraq in 1990, right?

I'm not trying to slam you but it was a pretty big event at the time.

[FarCenter]

96. The invasion of Iraq was limited and after destroying Iraqi forces, the coalition withdrew

No forces stayed in Iraq, and the incursion was limited to the south of the country.

Bush explained that he did not give the order to overthrow the Iraqi government because it would have "incurred incalculable human and political costs.... We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq."[78]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush#Gulf_War

Then his idiot son invaded.

[last1standing]

97. I'm glad you clarified as you first stated that H.W. Bush never invaded Iraq.

As this was obviously not true I wanted to give you the chance to clarify your position. I see now that you meant that the elder bush didn't invade Iraq to the extent his son later would. I'm still not sure why you used the word choice you did, but I'm glad you knew about the first invasion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Is the standard different

For hostile work environments and sexual harassment? Serious question

The other scandal btw

[last1standing]

23. Those examples aren't consensual.

It wouldn't be a different standard as much as comparing apples to oranges. One is about sex, the other about control.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. I know, but it is also called a sex scandal

Just making sure people know the difference.

[last1standing]

28. lol! I hope I passed the test.

n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Serious, I was

You did

[kelly1mm]

25. I know you are trying to make a point about hypocrisy but I personally would not vote for someone

who was married and cheated on their spouse - male/female/same sex does not matter. Single ???? bop anyone you want. Want to screw someone else while married ?????? get a divorce first.

That is just my feeling on the matter. Others here disagree. That's cool too.

[last1standing]

31. What if the couple has agreed to open things up?

Or what if one spouse doesn't want sex and turns a blind eye? There are many reasons people do what they do and I can't judge people based on their private relationships.

Then there's the little fact that if we disqualify any person who has so much as sent a naked picture to a non-spouse, our field of electable candidates is going to get quite small.

[Agschmid]

40. I posed that idea at my house tonight...

The general response was that someone who is in an open relationship is not qualified for public office.

I disagree... But that's a bad idea at my house sometimes.

[last1standing]

47. At least you could discuss it.

That's something, I hope.

[closeupready]

66. Well, isn't that essentially what JFK had? Jackie stated

that her belief was that men inherently are cheaters, and he did, of course.

I know you said that you personally disagree with this idea, I'm just putting his example out there for others to think about. Cheers.

[kelly1mm]

42. Hmmmm..... Good point on the 'open relationship' - I would be OK with voting

for someone if that were the case and I hear it from the spouse. Still not OK with the 'blind eye' example. I guess it is about commitment and honesty to me. If the one spouse was made aware (before hand) and gave his/her blessing to the other spouse to bop whomever then it would be OK.

As to a married person sending naked selfies to a non-spouse I am NOT OK with that (unless with prior OK from the other spouse). It is about judgment, commitment and discretion to me.

[last1standing]

44. I'm just saying that there are as many different rules to relationships as there are relationships.

We don't know the codes that each couple lives by once they close their bedroom doors. We also don't know the entire story behind any relationship other than our own so who knows why a person does what they do.

I won't judge anyone by their personal sex life so long as it's between consensual adults. I'll leave that to their own consciences.

[Nye Bevan]

46. YES. Weiner and his wife could well have had an open relationship.

Perhaps she even helped him photograph his penis for sexting purposes, and assisted him in coming up with the "Carlos Danger" pseudonym.

[Agschmid]

50. He needs a better assistant then...

[Bluenorthwest]

56. Then they should say so. What the fuck keeps them from just saying so?

I heard these two whining about the children, extensive therapy, forgiveness, choices. Neither one said 'hey, we live how we want, squares'. Why not? Straight closet cases really cheese me off, as does this argument you all make when some idiot does something vulgar like this. 'What if the couple has agreed'? Then they should not lie about it.
Both of these individuals were part of this Party who, if they are wild Free Love types, hypocritically sat in silence while many, many of their fellow preached on and on about Sanctity of Marriage and One Man and One Woman. Where were these escapees from Plato's Retreat when others were attacked endlessly as unworthy of the standards of the Divine Straight Couple, each one hand matched by God and Rick Warren?
Just saying. You folks in the straight community often claim your world is filled with free thinking relationships but the bulk of you pose as suburban traditionalist who have a hard time accepting people who are 'that way'. I don't give a shit if you have a dungeon in your basement, if you are pretending Sanctified Normality you are a closet case and an enemy of those who do live honest lives.
Your theory that they might want to have an open relationship while claiming otherwise is odd. They demand the closet and that should get them respect? Feh.

[last1standing]

57. It's their business if they want the closet, not ours.

I don't believe in outing anyone who isn't actively working against allowing others to live freely. So far as I know, Weiner doesn't oppose living freely.

[Bluenorthwest]

62. Sorry but the closet is harmful to others, to lie to our faces is to lie to our faces

no one has any reason nor right to make active deceptions toward others. Both of them sat in silence while Barack Obama wept about the Sanctity of one man,one woman marriage and did not say a fucking word. You say this is perhaps because while they want to have the wild life, they also want to pretend to be something they are not, so they help sell lies about marriage, God, other people, faith in order to preserve that lie?
I'm sorry, but to claim 'they are in an open relationship, but they are not open about it' is dangerous Straight Folk thinking. It's not open if you lie about it. It is a thing you do to others if you lie about it. 'Open' and 'Covert' are not the same thing. Cake and eat it too.
If they have an open relationship and stand up weeping about therapy and staying together for the kids, they are creepy, awful liars.

[last1standing]

63. I'm not saying they are in an open relationship. I have no idea.

I am saying that so long as they don't advocate harming those who have an open lifestyle, it's they're business and not mine. I can see where you're coming from as so many closeted officials have worked against LGBT rights, but I don't think this is the same. There's a major difference between a lifestyle and an orientation that must be considered. Either way, I'm not willing to enter their bedroom.

[Bluenorthwest]

64. Try to follow. If they did have such a relationship and did not wish to say so they

could answer such a scandal as today's with 'none of your business' and be just fine with me. Or they could be honest people, better yet. But to actively build up a bullshit story about therapy and hard choices would be extremely mendacious, not about privacy but about deception. It is always amusing to me that in hetero world the 'let's be very causal about sex' crowd insists that lying about sex is part of being casual about it. Folks who are really relaxed about sex don't lie about it, certainly don't build entire lives out of faked desires.

[last1standing]

65. I don't disagree that they could have answered that way.

And maybe they were completely honest in how they did answer. I don't know. But hindsight is 20/20 and I'm not going to judge either of them on their private sex lives until it becomes a problem for others. As of now, the only problem is that people found out and want to judge them. I won't be a part of that.

[PDJane]

27. That would narrow the field to even more socially inept and none-too-bright sorts.

Are you sure that has anything to do with ability?

[DrewFlorida]

30. So you are saying, everyone must marry their childhood sweetheart, or not be electable?

[last1standing]

32. It sounds pretty silly when you put it that way.

[ZombieHorde]

33. What about elected officials that offers jobs to those they are sleeping or sexting with? nt

[last1standing]

37. If he was an elected official offering a job in return for sex he should be charged with a crime.

Not for sexting but for corruption. There is a very big difference.

[cherokeeprogressive]

59. Don't forget he accused Breitbart of a criminal act while he was trying to deflect attention.

I believe "hacking" is a federal offense.

Had Breitbart not dropped dead, I bet he would have filed and won a lawsuit claiming defamation and slander.

[last1standing]

61. Then he would have lost a civil lawsuit.

If there was much to it I believe his estate would have continued the claim but either way, it just doesn't rise to being a reason to ban him from politics for life.

[LittleBlue]

34. What about promising jobs and condos to mistresses?

You still okay with that? What if it involves government or campaign money?

You want to play this game? It's Russian roulette with this guy, only a question of when you get the bullet.

[last1standing]

35. Did it involve government or campaign money?

If so that would be a crime. If not, it's still none of our business.

[LittleBlue]

49. Nobody knows

The promise was made but never followed through. No one knows whose money he was going to use, or what favors he traded to Politico.

[last1standing]

52. Then we're talking about a very weak promise.

I don't even support this guy for mayor but there are far better reasons for that than the fact he showed his penis to the wrong person.

[Douglas Carpenter]

43. Amen! And especially no one with a history of self-abuse

[last1standing]

45. Then I'll never be able to run for office.

Not even dog catcher.

[Skittles]

48. self del

don't even want to bother

[Agschmid]

54. The orig. version was much better...

My suggestion avoid the app Grindr at all costs!

[Skittles]

100. Weiner is a disgusting narcissistic CREEP

UGH

[99th_Monkey]

53. I said as much on another string, just different choice of words

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3325930

[BootinUp]

55. Shit, we need to have a lot of special elections. nt

[last1standing]

58. Only eunichs need apply.

n/t

[GiaGiovanni]

69. It's not about adultery. It's about discretion.

If you can keep your private life private, then you have enough self control to lead. If you're out of control to the point that you leave yourself (and your family) vulnerable to the media, then you don't.

[last1standing]

70. He did keep his private life private. The media didn't.

I know I'd fail your test so I won't hold Weiner to it.

[GiaGiovanni]

71. He didn't. He sexted to a 22 year old girl. 2 vulnerabilities there: sexting and her age.

Sexting indicates a lack of savvy and discretion. A public figure in government should know that texts/sexts leave him very vulnerable. Either the person who received the sexting can pass it on and/or show the pic to others OR the phone company servers (on which the picture appears) can be vulnerable in a number of ways.

Having any relationship, sexting or otherwise, with a very young woman will also leave you vulnerable. Younger people can get hurt more easily and turn on the public figure more irrationally. They also don't always realize the consequences of their actions.

Weiner's best bet was to find a woman in her 30s, have sex with her in private, and never send sexts or compromising texts or emails. That's what a mature person would do.

[last1standing]

72. My mother and father wouldn't have been allowed to date based on your rule.

I refuse to tell any adult how to live their lives with regards to sex. And just like Monica Lewinsky was an adult, so was the woman Weiner sexted with.

[GiaGiovanni]

73. Your mother and father weren't holding political office, is my guess, and they were single, yes?

Unless you're admitting that at least one of your parents was committing adultery at the time.

[last1standing]

74. You guess quite a bit there.

And what business of yours would it be if one or both of them were committing adultery at the time? This all becomes a slippery slope of judging others, doesn't it?

[GiaGiovanni]

78. No, it's about discretion. Assuming your parents were single and not holding elected office

they could sext to their hearts content and not worry about vulnerabilities that public officials have. In fact, they could have been committing adultery and very few people would have cared.

However, if you're a public official, you cannot act like a person who is not in the public eye. You have to be careful of even the appearance of impropriety. You have to be careful of your vulnerabilities.

Franklin Roosevelt carried on a long term affair with Lucy Mercer, and Americans were none the wiser. Of course, Mercer didn't run to the Washington Post with photos, and the technology was not available to duplicate those photos electronically even if she had. Dwight D. Eisenhower had an affair while he was commanding the Allied Forces during WWII. Here again, Americans never knew about it until after his death. It was never an issue in the Presidential election of 1952. Both men were discrete and so were the women involved. And, of course, the technology did not leave people so vulnerable. (You could have a handwritten letter delivered, pay cash for a hotel, and leave no electronic trail.)

These days, EVERYTHING leaves an electronic trail and someone will find it. Weiner is not a kid--he's 50. There's no excuse in someone that age not covering his tracks. After the first incident that destroyed his Congressional career, Weiner should have learned to be far more discrete. No excuses.

[last1standing]

80. That makes part of the point I'm talking about.

Our problem isn't that politicians are less careful, it's that the media knows that sex drives ratings. We've come to demand too much from our elected officials when we expect them to be saints or impossibly discreet. They are human beings and human beings often make mistakes, especially when it comes to sex.

Honestly, I'd rather elect a philandering politician who will work toward the public good than a chaste one who will support the 1%. I don't care if they can keep their genitals to themselves or not.

[GiaGiovanni]

83. Knowing that the press drive rating with sex scandals should have made Weiner MORE discreet not less

You can blame the press all you want--and there's a lot to blame them for--but, in the end, public officials have to be very, very careful and very discreet. Weiner had been through all this before: he needed to put away the iPhone and find himself someone who did the same.

[MotherPetrie]

79. Right. Let's elect even more sordid politicians like Spitzer and Weiner who resign mid-term.

[last1standing]

81. Spitzer resigned for breaking a law he signed into existence.

Weiner was hounded out of office by puritans who can't get enough of meddling in other people's sex lives. There is a difference.

[MotherPetrie]

86. Weiner is a LIAR. L-I-A-R. After getting caught indisputably LYING, he resigned.

THAT is sordid behavior. Furthermore, after disgracing himself once, he learned nothing from the experience. He's not just sordid, he's a sordid fool.

[last1standing]

87. I'm sorry if this discussion has upset you.

It's not my intention to start a yelling match, only to discuss the issues. We had better not continue this between us tonight.

[MotherPetrie]

109. For real? ROFL.

[Skittles]

82. yeah, that's what it's about

not the judgement of a man obsessed with photographing his penis

[last1standing]

84. Yes, that's what it's about.

n/t

[Skittles]

85. and yes, you'll be trashed too if you get caught

better be careful!!!

[last1standing]

88. That does seem to be the standard.

I won't try to hold you up to it but you believe otherwise.

[Hekate]

89. Unless that person is a Christian Republican who has talked to Jesus about it. Then it's all okay. n

[ejpoeta]

103. Actually I agree that unless someone runs on a platform including something they are caught doing,

then it should not have any bearing on their ability to do their job. Or if they say used government money or resources to do the thing or cover it up

[Niceguy1]

93. if a guy wants

A little on the side it isn't my problem. People need to stay out of other peoples bedroom.

Bill Clinton was the best president in my lifetime. Heck, if he coild have ran for a 3 rd term he would have had my vote.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

94. -1 Totally and utterly irrevelant. Just Saying nt

[last1standing]

95. Of course you're "just saying." Just saying is convenient...

when you don't want to take responsibility for your comments.

Just saying.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

98. Na ! "Just Sayin" is a way to appear less antagonistic. I am left

of Ghandi. And cheating has nothing to do with sending pics of your penis to
strangers. I stand by that.

If you had started a thread about congresspeople who send pics of their penis
after a public confession, while their wives are pregnant...I would have not had a "Just Saying" response.

[sabrina 1]

99. That would probably eliminate over 90% of our elected officials throughout history.

Sounds good to me, lol!

Didn't you know, the Dem Party has become the Party of Family Values, but only if the politician in question is a Liberal.

[Chemisse]

101. Sending pictures of your erect penis to strangers

is weird and creepy (to me anyway), particularly if one does so compulsively. Call me old-fashioned, but this seems pretty similar to wandering around in a trenchcoat exposing one's self.

I don't care about a candidate having consensual sex with someone other than his or her spouse (presumably not in public).

[Nay]

107. Yeah, I'm with you. It's just creepy, and I'm no prude. What to think about a guy

who loves to photograph his penis and send it to young women? At the very least, it's pathetic. At the worst, it's being a flasher, like you said. What is the mentality of a man who compulsively does this shit? I really don't care if his wife likes it or hates it; I still think anyone who compulsively does stuff like this has a screw loose.

[LanternWaste]

108. I s'pose many people are under the belief that integrity may be compartmentalized.

I s'pose many people are under the belief that integrity may be compartmentalized.