Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

littlewolf

(3,813 posts)
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 11:02 AM Jul 2013

bank repos wrong house, gets rid of property, refuses to make restitution

http://www.10tvtogo.com/wap/news/text.jsp?sid=40&nid=3355439430&cid=21017&scid=-1&ith=4&title=Local+News&headtitle=Local+News


An Athens County woman is looking to get her belongings back after a bank incorrectly broke into her house and took them.
Katie Barnett says that the First National Bank in Wellston foreclosed on her house, even though it was not her bank.

"They repossessed my house on accident, thinking it was the house across the street," Barnett said.
Barnett, who had been away from the house for about two weeks, said she had to crawl through the window of her own house in order to get in after she used her own key that did not work.

Barnett said that according to the bank president, this was the first time something like this has happened.
She presented him with an $18,000 estimate to replace the losses, but the president refused to pay.
"He got very firm with me and said, 'We're not paying you retail here, that's just the way it is,'" Barnett said. "I did not tell them to come in my house and make me an offer. They took my stuff and I want it back."

The shock of having her house broken into and belongings taken by mistake has now turned into anger.
"Now, I'm just angry," Barnett said. "It wouldn't be a big deal if they would step up and say 'I'm sorry, we will replace your stuff.' Instead, I'm getting attitude from them. They're sarcastic when they talk to me. They make it sound like I'm trying to rip the bank off. All I want is my stuff back."
No one from the bank would go on camera with 10TV about the incident. The bank vice president told 10TV News that the bank is trying to come to terms with Barnett.


I hope she sues the dog s*** out of this bank.
and then after the loss in court the shareholders
toss him and the VP out on their ear.

133 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
bank repos wrong house, gets rid of property, refuses to make restitution (Original Post) littlewolf Jul 2013 OP
wait until the pain and suffering law suit hollysmom Jul 2013 #1
Good Lawyers Have To Be Standing In Line! ProfessorGAC Jul 2013 #2
Looking for a new job? Ha, they'll probably promote him and double his salary. RC Jul 2013 #3
The sit on your hands police force decided to exboyfil Jul 2013 #11
Burglary requires intent in criminal law. former9thward Jul 2013 #61
That is correct Sanity Claws Jul 2013 #70
What about theft, unlawful taking, or whatever that jurisdiction cares to call it? (NT) Heywood J Jul 2013 #123
It's not burglary because burglary is a specific intent crime. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #87
There was intent though... Lancero Jul 2013 #107
A conviction for burglary requires proof of specific intent, not proof of a general intent. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #115
They specifically chose that house... Lancero Jul 2013 #122
Do you have the prosecutor's phone number? Why not give him a call and explain it to him? AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #124
I hate to say it... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #29
This is not the type of lawsuit for which pain and suffering are compensated. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #86
why not? hollysmom Jul 2013 #132
How many years in jail would it be for stealing everything out of a house? robinlynne Jul 2013 #4
Zero! Corporations are people when it benefits them... TroglodyteScholar Jul 2013 #23
This is a civil matter not criminal. former9thward Jul 2013 #62
They might not have intended to burglarize the home but they did intend to remove the contents ladjf Jul 2013 #67
Whether they intended to steal her propert or not, the end result is THEY STOLE HER PROPERTY! Fla Dem Jul 2013 #127
You can shout all you want. former9thward Jul 2013 #130
Fucking banksters! Rex Jul 2013 #5
There's a huge issue being mentioned, the retail vs. wholesale paradigm Trillo Jul 2013 #6
all the more reason a jury should do the negotiations littlewolf Jul 2013 #7
The bank needs to come up with the Jenoch Jul 2013 #57
Breaking & entering, grand larceny. Who is going to jail? n/t PowerToThePeople Jul 2013 #8
Exactly! Beearewhyain Jul 2013 #10
Exactly! Orrex Jul 2013 #13
She needs to go to the police and make a criminal complaint. pa28 Jul 2013 #33
And they would correctly tell her to file a suit. former9thward Jul 2013 #63
You keep using the word "intent". blackspade Jul 2013 #66
The minute you break into property you know is not your own you have committed a crime. former9thward Jul 2013 #74
I don't think that is true. blackspade Jul 2013 #75
If it was reasonable you will not be charged -- or at least convicted. former9thward Jul 2013 #76
OK, so it was a friends house. blackspade Jul 2013 #78
Proof of a general intent is not sufficient. A specific intent is required. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #88
So this guy should not be charged Beearewhyain Jul 2013 #72
Courts rarely allow the "I was too drunk to know what I doing" defense. former9thward Jul 2013 #73
Regardless of what the courts may or may not do in the future Beearewhyain Jul 2013 #79
He was charged with trespassing and destruction of property, not burglary. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #89
Never said burglary Beearewhyain Jul 2013 #95
You did say, while apparently being confused over the intent issue, "So this guy should not be AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #96
Ok then... Beearewhyain Jul 2013 #99
The bank should be. But you can't force the police to do anything that they don't want to do. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #101
Cool, cool, cool Beearewhyain Jul 2013 #102
Isn't that against the rules or something? AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #114
If there was "no intent" the bank should have bent over backwards to fix things... cascadiance Jul 2013 #80
But they still have her property. Right? pa28 Jul 2013 #83
Clearly, Trespassing is a criminal and not a civil issue Sheepshank Jul 2013 #128
It depends on what was taken. former9thward Jul 2013 #131
Butbutbutbutbutbut.... corporations are people, my friend HillWilliam Jul 2013 #34
I hope she sues... tallahasseedem Jul 2013 #9
The bank hired a company to do the deed. oneshooter Jul 2013 #12
it's even broader cab67 Jul 2013 #38
Welcome to DU, cab 67! But how could she find out where her stuff is? n/t pnwmom Jul 2013 #43
Most of the time those items are just thrown in a dumpster. haele Jul 2013 #50
If the bank hired a company... pipi_k Jul 2013 #125
She should press charges for breaking and entering and grand larceny. This is THEFT, not a mistake. LaydeeBug Jul 2013 #14
She tried exboyfil Jul 2013 #15
That's *Crazy*. She should dial 911 and record it. There should be cameras there when the police LaydeeBug Jul 2013 #17
Police are there to protect the wealthy. nt awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #30
+1 Go Vols Jul 2013 #133
Ya think maybe the local police is more friendly with the bank? Omar4Dems Jul 2013 #31
Equal Protection and all that. Daylight is the best disinfectant. nt LaydeeBug Jul 2013 #32
Not anymore quakerboy Jul 2013 #65
This is why my generation started calling them "pigs" lark Jul 2013 #45
She said it was a mistake. The bank said it was a mistake. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #90
I'm coming to your house while you're gone, and after I pillage all of your possessions, I'm going LaydeeBug Jul 2013 #110
except I am not *really* coming to your house, just sayin'. nt LaydeeBug Jul 2013 #111
That would be a mistake. If you do come, however, feed the dog. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #116
Banks have liability insurance Jenoch Jul 2013 #16
yup, as well as the company hired to do the deed. nt littlewolf Jul 2013 #21
Wow -- that's nuts theHandpuppet Jul 2013 #18
Cops aren't interested ? dusty trails Jul 2013 #19
She definitely needs to sue everyone involved, including MsPithy Jul 2013 #20
not sure if she can sue the police. littlewolf Jul 2013 #22
The banks are literally worse than terrorists. avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #24
Some think that the police are too. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #97
Might I suggest she follow this example? Savannahmann Jul 2013 #25
Not only all the other stuff but an AWFUL business decision as well, the difference between hughee99 Jul 2013 #26
I read this last night. blackspade Jul 2013 #27
how is this not burglary? seriously arely staircase Jul 2013 #28
i suspect they get out of criminal liability based on lack of criminal intent. unblock Jul 2013 #36
Yes you're right zipplewrath Jul 2013 #42
Seriously, burglary requires a specific intent and none can be shown. She even said it was a mistake AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #91
The Wholesale/Retail argument is an example of why the number of lawsuits go up. Dustlawyer Jul 2013 #35
Why haven't the local police arrested the bank officers? dbackjon Jul 2013 #37
It is an obvious mistake that is now a civil matter. Jenoch Jul 2013 #59
And the refusal to compensate? dbackjon Jul 2013 #60
Yeah, that bank is now in a shitstorm. Jenoch Jul 2013 #64
Right..... blackspade Jul 2013 #68
Nope, you cannot make that comparison. Jenoch Jul 2013 #71
And why not? blackspade Jul 2013 #77
It would be obvious to you that Jenoch Jul 2013 #84
That is a good point. blackspade Jul 2013 #103
I do agree Jenoch Jul 2013 #105
I can see that. blackspade Jul 2013 #118
I might suggest Jenoch Jul 2013 #119
Very possible. blackspade Jul 2013 #120
With the mounting anger at their callous injustices, it's no wonder they need to monitor us n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #39
x2 AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #93
Theft is a crime Mr. Bank President and you and your accomplices should be arrested. TeamPooka Jul 2013 #40
I would sue anybody and everybody involved Aerows Jul 2013 #41
I would as well - including the police dept that closed the case. nt TBF Jul 2013 #52
Yep, them too n/t Aerows Jul 2013 #58
Settlement With a Non Disclosure Agreement BlueNAlabama Jul 2013 #44
There is a great book. House of Sand and Fog mainstreetonce Jul 2013 #46
I forgot all about that book... Phentex Jul 2013 #104
minimum settlement after treatment like that... 1st- pay remaining mortgages on house stlsaxman Jul 2013 #47
Good fucking lord, does the bank not understand what a goodamned jury would do to them? Poll_Blind Jul 2013 #48
This is what God made Punitive Damages for. closeupready Jul 2013 #49
When a CEO gets the "needle" for his crimes against America, then I would consider alfredo Jul 2013 #51
Unbelievable, shameful and sickening... mountain grammy Jul 2013 #53
Amazing.... xocet Jul 2013 #54
She'll have due process through our regulated banking system. Eleanors38 Jul 2013 #55
why is this not FELONY theft? pansypoo53219 Jul 2013 #56
Just wait... This ASSHOLE will laugh it off and do another house next to the one he was supposed to cascadiance Jul 2013 #81
Usually banks have contractors do this sort of thing. lpbk2713 Jul 2013 #69
The rich are out of control liberal N proud Jul 2013 #82
Time to start eating banksters........ kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #85
Honestly... SnowSakura0813 Jul 2013 #92
Call the police. Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #94
The police already closed the case. NutmegYankee Jul 2013 #108
Seems to be the law of the land. nt Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #113
this bank should lose its entire profit for each and every day they make this woman wait dsc Jul 2013 #98
Can the new consumer agency do anything about this? Isn't there a law to protect the woman? kelliekat44 Jul 2013 #100
Exactly. This isn't the first time a bank has foreclosed on the wrong house. Gormy Cuss Jul 2013 #109
Why aren't they in Jail? They broke into a house and took some else's belongings. Sivafae Jul 2013 #106
Yes, sue. But press charges for breaking and entry, and theft on point Jul 2013 #112
I clicked expecting this to be Bank of America KentuckyWoman Jul 2013 #117
K&R woo me with science Jul 2013 #121
For just retribution, she should be allowed to raid the bank vault... Blue_Tires Jul 2013 #126
First National Bank in Wellstone is an unhealthy bank Small Accumulates Jul 2013 #129

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
1. wait until the pain and suffering law suit
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 11:11 AM
Jul 2013

If they broke into my house and took my stuff, most of it is replaceable family remembrances. I have photos pf my family since my grand parents were young, I have framed documents of their lives, that framers offered me hundreds of dollars for and it wasn't even their family. Then there is furniture of solid wood like they don't make anymore.
Not to mention all my financial information here and in my computer (in my own secret code)
I would kill these people.

ProfessorGAC

(76,613 posts)
2. Good Lawyers Have To Be Standing In Line!
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 11:19 AM
Jul 2013

Not ambulance chasers! Good, solid lawyers with winning reputations. This is a slam dunk.

First question: How are they not guilty of breaking and entering, at least? The repossession order applied to someone else's property. They had no legal right to enter her premises.

Second question: Why isn't this burglary? They broke into a house, took the possessions out of the house, did not intend to return them, and now refuse to return them after admitting it was the wrong house. That's burglary, by any definition.

So, they committed a crime and now all the lady's stuff is gone. Methinks the bank manager will be looking for a new job when corporate gets a hold of him.

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
3. Looking for a new job? Ha, they'll probably promote him and double his salary.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 11:35 AM
Jul 2013

Wall Street will welcome him with open arms.

exboyfil

(18,359 posts)
11. The sit on your hands police force decided to
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:15 PM
Jul 2013

give it a pass. They should be the next stop for the journalists along with the local DA.

former9thward

(33,424 posts)
61. Burglary requires intent in criminal law.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 02:45 PM
Jul 2013

Usually an intent to commit a felony on the property. The bank had no intent to commit a felony when they entered the house. This is civil not criminal.

Sanity Claws

(22,408 posts)
70. That is correct
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 03:17 PM
Jul 2013

This is a matter of torts: trespass on real property and conversion of personal property. These torts allow her to recover general damages, i.e. emotional distress. She may be eligible for punitive damages too, depending on the state.

Lancero

(3,276 posts)
107. There was intent though...
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 08:06 PM
Jul 2013

Intent to break into the house and remove the belongings.

Interesting thought though... If she reports the items as stolen, which they technically were, would she be able to recover them? Some were sold and given away, and as it was the bank that did the selling and giving then they should have records that show what happened to the items and where or who they went to.

Funny though about intent - A person can be charged with posession of stolen goods even though they never suspect that they had stolen goods.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
115. A conviction for burglary requires proof of specific intent, not proof of a general intent.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 09:55 PM
Jul 2013

Lancero

(3,276 posts)
122. They specifically chose that house...
Thu Jul 25, 2013, 08:37 AM
Jul 2013

And the bank agreed with their decision despite them having records that, if they cared enough to check, would have shown that to be the wrong house.

Choosing a specific house to break in and take everything from sounds like proof of specific intent to me. It doesn't matter that it was accidental - When the bank ok'd the decision it created specific intent, as well as when she informed them and they refused to provide restitution.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
124. Do you have the prosecutor's phone number? Why not give him a call and explain it to him?
Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:06 AM
Jul 2013
 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
29. I hate to say it...
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:57 PM
Jul 2013

but the rich and their lackeys will continue to keep screwing us until we start stringing them up.

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
132. why not?
Thu Jul 25, 2013, 10:29 PM
Jul 2013

the aggravation and irreplaceable stuff should indicate reckless abandon causing pain and suffering.
Not to mention inconvenience and possible ill health due to caused stress.

TroglodyteScholar

(5,477 posts)
23. Zero! Corporations are people when it benefits them...
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:45 PM
Jul 2013

But you won't ever see these guys charged with a B&E.

former9thward

(33,424 posts)
62. This is a civil matter not criminal.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 02:47 PM
Jul 2013

There was no intent to commit a felony on the property by the bank. That would be an element of the crime of burglary.

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
67. They might not have intended to burglarize the home but they did intend to remove the contents
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 03:09 PM
Jul 2013

of the house without using diligence in the operation. That was a case of malfeasance.

Fla Dem

(27,610 posts)
127. Whether they intended to steal her propert or not, the end result is THEY STOLE HER PROPERTY!
Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:35 AM
Jul 2013

To say they did not "intend" to steal her property is ludicrous. They entered her home to take her property without her permission. How is that not stealing with intent?

former9thward

(33,424 posts)
130. You can shout all you want.
Thu Jul 25, 2013, 12:04 PM
Jul 2013

It does not change the law. The bank (or its agent) entered the property thinking it was theirs. It was a mistake. In our legal system you are allowed to make an honest mistake and not be held criminally liable. It is a civil matter and the bank will pay for its mistake in a civil court.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
5. Fucking banksters!
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 11:40 AM
Jul 2013

Of course they won't admit to fault, I hope she sues the bank back into the stone age.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
6. There's a huge issue being mentioned, the retail vs. wholesale paradigm
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 11:42 AM
Jul 2013

It far exceeds just this theft incident. It seems to be one of our corporatist-economic pillars, so to say.

It could be construed as giving different groups, different prices. How would you feel if, when you go to the grocery store, the prices of the food were variable depending on, say, the color of your skin or the type of clothes you wear? Well that's what business has. They get preferential pricing treatment over citizens, they may purchase the same things at wholesale prices which are not available to the average human citizen.

The bank is being completely unreasonable, to "discuss" but be unwilling to pay retail to this person. If she needs to replace her things, she'll have to pay retail, but the bank only wants to compensate her at wholesale. Just that fact alone demonstrates the bank lacks good faith in the negotiations.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
57. The bank needs to come up with the
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 02:33 PM
Jul 2013

'replacement' value. Replacement insurance is usually more expensive, but in this case the woman did nothing wrong. I bet that bank is getting a lot of telephone calls from angry people.

Beearewhyain

(600 posts)
10. Exactly!
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:13 PM
Jul 2013

This is what kills me about things like this. Under any other circumstance someone would be facing criminal charges but a "Whoops we stole from the wrong house, but we are a bank and have complicated paperwork so let it go" gets them at worst a drawn out civil lawsuit. As I heard from a friend when we were trying to distill what is really wrong in our country - "It is the unequal application of law and rights"

Orrex

(67,071 posts)
13. Exactly!
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:15 PM
Jul 2013

If I "accidentally" broke into the bank president's home, I sure as hell wouldn't get to dictate the terms of reparation. I'd be doing my negotiations from behind bars in an orange jumpsuit.


former9thward

(33,424 posts)
63. And they would correctly tell her to file a suit.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 02:49 PM
Jul 2013

For criminal matters you have to be able to prove intent. There is no intent here.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
66. You keep using the word "intent".
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 02:59 PM
Jul 2013

They intended to break into a building with the intent on removing the articles within.
Then they intended to dispose of them.

Unfortunately for this poor woman, they carried out their intent on the wrong house, one that they had no business being within.

It's like me breaking into somebody's house just to look around. I had no intent to steal, I was just curious what kind of stuff they had. I somehow don't think that would work out in my favor......

former9thward

(33,424 posts)
74. The minute you break into property you know is not your own you have committed a crime.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 05:06 PM
Jul 2013

The bank thought it was their property. It was a mistake and so they must pay but not a crime. The law does not criminalize mistakes but you have to pay damages.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
75. I don't think that is true.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 05:18 PM
Jul 2013

If I get confused one night and break into someone else's house thinking it's mine I will still go to jail for breaking and entering.
I can say "oops" all I want and it will not make a bit of difference.

former9thward

(33,424 posts)
76. If it was reasonable you will not be charged -- or at least convicted.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 05:21 PM
Jul 2013

But it is rarely a "reasonable" mistake that you don't know your own house.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
78. OK, so it was a friends house.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 05:32 PM
Jul 2013

And it is highly unlikely that I wouldn't get a visit to the jail.

What we have here is a two tiered justice system, where a 'company' can make a mistake and get off scott-free, while actual people do time.

One thing that should be revealed is the specific destinations of all of her property. How it was disposed of etc. It should be up to the companies to turn over this info and go through the process of getting her stuff back at their expense. If they sold it, they should have to buy it back. If it went in a dumpster, they should go to the landfill and attempt to recover her stuff, etc....
Anything else shows ill intent.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
88. Proof of a general intent is not sufficient. A specific intent is required.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:34 PM
Jul 2013

E.g., if homeless couple caught in a snow-storm (say Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman) break into a house to escape from the storm, they've committed a trespass but not a burglary.

former9thward

(33,424 posts)
73. Courts rarely allow the "I was too drunk to know what I doing" defense.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 05:00 PM
Jul 2013

Nevertheless I suspect that down the road if the defendant agrees to pay for the damages the charges will be dropped.

Beearewhyain

(600 posts)
79. Regardless of what the courts may or may not do in the future
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 05:35 PM
Jul 2013

The man was arrested and charged, as he should have been IMHO. However, the bank or its agents were not arrested or charged for a similar occurrence. If business entities are afforded the same rights as individuals then criminal trespass, at the least, does not seem out of the question.

Beearewhyain

(600 posts)
95. Never said burglary
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:50 PM
Jul 2013

though I would not be opposed if the bank was charged with that. However, as I said up thread, criminal trespass seems to apply to both.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
96. You did say, while apparently being confused over the intent issue, "So this guy should not be
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:58 PM
Jul 2013

charged because there was no intent, just a silly misunderstanding?"

There are two types of intent in the criminal law. One is general intent. The second is specific intent.

You say that you "Never said burglary." You also never said "destruction of property." I never said that you said "burglary," nor did I say that you ever said "destruction of burglary."

Instead, I covered both general intent and specific intent - in response to your "So this guy should not be charged statement - by saying that "He was charged with trespassing and destruction of property, not burglary."

Beearewhyain

(600 posts)
99. Ok then...
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:31 PM
Jul 2013

Admittedly I am not an expert on criminal law or its terms. However, do you think the bank should/could be charged with trespassing and/or destruction of property? Why or why not from a personal as well as legal perspective?

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
101. The bank should be. But you can't force the police to do anything that they don't want to do.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:43 PM
Jul 2013

None of us can even force reluctant prosecutors, such as the one in the Zimmerman case, to do their job, object to defense attorney questions calling for speculation, or showing that it is inherently absurd for an armed stalker who kills the person that he was stalking to claim self-defense.

If the police and the prosecutors don't do their jobs, the only recourse is a civil suit.

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
80. If there was "no intent" the bank should have bent over backwards to fix things...
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 05:36 PM
Jul 2013

But they didn't, and I would contend that there was CRIMINAL intent. Is there a three strikes your out law there? If there are two other incidents of this, then either execs need to go to prison for life, or the bank as a "person" needs to be PUT AWAY FOR LIFE and SHUT DOWN!

pa28

(6,145 posts)
83. But they still have her property. Right?
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:01 PM
Jul 2013

If they just returned the property I suspect she'd drop the matter.

If they no longer have the property, will not replace it and it was sold for cash proceeds that sounds to me like any other burglary. Maybe there was intent.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
128. Clearly, Trespassing is a criminal and not a civil issue
Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:50 AM
Jul 2013

Banks generally hire companies to clean out repossessed homes. There may have been some criminal intent on the part of the company if they mishandled personal posessions or decided to keep things like jewelry, antiques etc.

former9thward

(33,424 posts)
131. It depends on what was taken.
Thu Jul 25, 2013, 12:11 PM
Jul 2013

Also it depends on what the contract says between the bank and the clean up company. The contract may say the company can keep anything in the home. The bank just wants it empty. If a home is correctly foreclosed any property inside is considered abandoned. The bank is to blame civilly here. I doubt the clean up company has any fault.

tallahasseedem

(6,716 posts)
9. I hope she sues...
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:06 PM
Jul 2013

and takes this bank to bankruptcy.

I couldn't even imagine if something like that happened to me. I would be devastated! Maybe even in jail for assault on the bank president who was a complete asshole.

This cannot continue!

oneshooter

(8,614 posts)
12. The bank hired a company to do the deed.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:15 PM
Jul 2013

Go after them, charge each and every person that entered the house with theft, breaking and entering, and destruction of private property. Sue the company under the RICO statutes, put the owner in jail for working with the bank.

Shotgun approach, a wide band of shot to hit everyone involved.

cab67

(3,737 posts)
38. it's even broader
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 01:12 PM
Jul 2013

Anyone who bought the items taken from her home is in possession of stolen property. This is a crime. If I were her, I'd contact each and every one of them, point out the circumstances under which they obtained their goods, and go from there. I'd bet most of them would immediately return the items and go after the bank for the costs.

haele

(15,373 posts)
50. Most of the time those items are just thrown in a dumpster.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 02:04 PM
Jul 2013

And/or the people who actually went into the house to clear it might have five-finger discounted any items they saw and liked, but since the people hired to clear the house are usually minimum wage day-laborers, the family treasures, irreplaceable antiques, family documents, Fluffy's (or Mom's) ashes, Grandpa's WWII Medal of Honor and Purple Heart, Great-Great-Great-Grandma's china that was rescued from the burning of Atlanta - and other items that might also be worth something - ended up in the dumpster along with the Laz-E-Boy, the mattresses, and the DVD collection. Perhaps this lady's jewelry and any coins in the piggy bank were saved from the dumpster, but chances are even those items are far gone.

Being someone who doesn't believe the worst of people and consider those foreclosed on as rat-scum slackers, I would have hoped that when they broke in and noticed it looked as if someone was still living there with no apparent planning to move out (as in, this was fully furnished house that wasn't trashed and half-emptied like most abandoned foreclosures are), they might have double-checked find out what was going on and then held off until they could get to the resident/owners of the stuff to "force a move" with them present. You know this wasn't the first time something like this happened...heck, people who don't have mortgages have been "foreclosed on" speciously by someone who claimed to have a lien or erroneously (illegally) put a lien on their house.

I don't believe in just tossing stuff out on the street without an owner there, even if one is evicting or foreclosing on "a lazy scumbag scam artist". Bring the police or sheriff if there's a potential for danger.

Otherwise, it's just blatantly punishing someone who is in debt by stealing from a family who's already got problems under a weak veneer of "property rights" laws.

Haele

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
125. If the bank hired a company...
Thu Jul 25, 2013, 11:23 AM
Jul 2013

maybe the company was given the wrong address by someone at the bank.

In that case, how would anyone at that company be responsible for wrongdoing?

In fact, if someone made a legitimate error anywhere along the line, how can anyone be held responsible for wrongdoing?

I'm sure nobody intended to break into the wrong house and take the wrong stuff, even if the information given to them was correct.

If it wasn't correct, then they're even less to blame for what happened.

although, from a moral POV, it would be excellent for the bank to make a generous goodwill gesture to this poor woman.

 

LaydeeBug

(10,291 posts)
14. She should press charges for breaking and entering and grand larceny. This is THEFT, not a mistake.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:17 PM
Jul 2013

nt

exboyfil

(18,359 posts)
15. She tried
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:19 PM
Jul 2013

The police closed the investigation without taking any action. That should be the next stop for the journalists.

 

LaydeeBug

(10,291 posts)
17. That's *Crazy*. She should dial 911 and record it. There should be cameras there when the police
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:27 PM
Jul 2013

arrive. "Corporations are people, my friend", so who gets cuffed?

I think her friends could get it on their camera phones.

This is crazy.

quakerboy

(14,856 posts)
65. Not anymore
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 02:52 PM
Jul 2013

I think we've reached a point where they are caring about being exposed less and less. daylight is only effective on those who are ashamed of their actions or who fear the potential repercussions of having their actions known. Fewer and fewer seem to have that shame over their misdeeds. And the likelihood of repercussions grows slimmer by the day.

lark

(26,068 posts)
45. This is why my generation started calling them "pigs"
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 01:40 PM
Jul 2013

They passed the duck test. If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck and acts like a duck, it's generally a duck. The cops in this story were true pigs, agents of injustice rather than justice. Upholding the corporotacrcy (sp?) rather than the law. MF*ers.

 

LaydeeBug

(10,291 posts)
110. I'm coming to your house while you're gone, and after I pillage all of your possessions, I'm going
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 08:24 PM
Jul 2013

to just shrug and say, "My bad. I thought I bought this in a tax sale". Which *might* be kosher, were they to have already returned the stolen, er, "mistakenly taken" possessions, but they're getting cute, so....

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
16. Banks have liability insurance
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:22 PM
Jul 2013

for situations such as this. This woman needs to sue and get more than the value of her stuff. She needs to get damages plus attornies' fees and court costs. she needs to sue the bank president and every single officer of the bank and its board of directors.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
18. Wow -- that's nuts
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:31 PM
Jul 2013

That stupid fukking bank is LUCKY this woman just wants her stuff back. What she needs now is a good lawyer, cause if it were me I'd sue them for a LOT more than the cost of stolen belongings.

dusty trails

(174 posts)
19. Cops aren't interested ?
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:39 PM
Jul 2013

What would the cops do if you or I broke into her house and took her possessions ?

MsPithy

(809 posts)
20. She definitely needs to sue everyone involved, including
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:40 PM
Jul 2013

the guy who drove the truck, and whoever owns the place where her stuff ended up. (she can find out where her stuff is, during discovery)

Including, the police for not investigating this as a robbery with the bank directors being arrested.

This is the only way to prevent the banksters from blaming everyone else involved, and it always happens that the groups of perpetrators turn on each other.

And, don't forget tens of millions in punitive damages.

 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
25. Might I suggest she follow this example?
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:52 PM
Jul 2013
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-florida-foreclosed-angry-homeowner-bofa/story?id=13775638

In Florida an angry homeowner whose home was wrongfully foreclosed on by Bank of America gets revenge by foreclosing on the bank's local branch


It may take a while, but I'm sure that the outcome would be about the same.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
26. Not only all the other stuff but an AWFUL business decision as well, the difference between
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:55 PM
Jul 2013

the retail and wholesale prices I guarantee you is FAR less than the cost of the lawyers they'll have to pay and the public relations team they'll have to bring in to fix the mess.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
28. how is this not burglary? seriously
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:56 PM
Jul 2013

if I go in someone's house and take their stuff without permission I'd be charged with a felony.

unblock

(56,185 posts)
36. i suspect they get out of criminal liability based on lack of criminal intent.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 01:10 PM
Jul 2013

many crimes require criminal intent. lacking criminal intent, there may be a lesser, "negligent" version of the crime, e.g., negligent homicide vs. murder.

but i've never heard of a crime call negligent breaking and entering or negligent theft.


that said, they certainly have civil liability which could include extras such as compensation for lost time, hassle factor, interest, hotel costs if applicable, etc.


in theory, i think they're only liable for the fair market value (as opposed to the replacement cost) of the lost items if they can't return them. if they took a damaged, 30 year old sofa, i don't think they're liable to replace that with a brand new sofa. commercially, though, they should be bending over backwards to settle this sort of thing, it's a p.r. nightmare.

zipplewrath

(16,698 posts)
42. Yes you're right
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 01:27 PM
Jul 2013

Sadly, they won't be held to full retail anymore than anyone of us would be if we were at fault in an auto accident with a 10 year old car. You're liable for the value of a 10 year old car, not a brand new one.

That said, there are a boat load of costs associated with getting all of this stuff replaced, as well as the costs incurred while replacing them (rentals, etc.). And since lawyers are apparently going to be required, there are costs there too. It could be much cheaper for them in the long run if they just go ahead and settle now, which a good lawyer could probably explain to them.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
91. Seriously, burglary requires a specific intent and none can be shown. She even said it was a mistake
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:40 PM
Jul 2013

which the bank refuses to rectify, but a mistake nonetheless.

Dustlawyer

(10,539 posts)
35. The Wholesale/Retail argument is an example of why the number of lawsuits go up.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 01:09 PM
Jul 2013

You have to actually sue them and then they delay to wait you out and make you desperate. They use the increase in the number of lawsuits to show why they need more Tort Reform! This was not a crime because the Bank can argue that there was not the specific intent to break and enter, it was a mistake. That makes it civil only unless you can prove this was a scam to sell her stuff from the beginning.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
64. Yeah, that bank is now in a shitstorm.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 02:51 PM
Jul 2013

I bet he and the owners of the bank wish they would have played nice with this lady so the media did not get this story. I looked up their telephone number and am contemplating calling them and asking "are you getting a few telephone calls today?". My guess is they are letting it go to voicemail with an outgoing message saying they are taking care of the matter. I would hope so.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
68. Right.....
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 03:16 PM
Jul 2013

So if I went to this bank's ATM and it gave me $18,000 by mistake and I then gave it to charity I could only be taken to civil court?
It was a mistake and I had no intent to steal, so the cops would close the case without charges?

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
71. Nope, you cannot make that comparison.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 03:20 PM
Jul 2013

That is a different situation entirely.

The cops are not likely making the decision, it is likely the county attorney.

The bank did not intentionally go to the wrong house. The real foreclosed house was sitting for at least 6 months. The people probably walked away from it. That is what the bank expected, but somehow got the wrong address. Somebody is an idiot for relying on GPS to get to the correct house.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
77. And why not?
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 05:25 PM
Jul 2013

The result is the same.
I acquired something that was not mine and disposed of it without intent to steal it.

The GPS excuse is bullshit anyway. The reporter used a GPS and went to the correct house and the house #s were clearly visible on the mailboxes.
The buildings do not even look the same.
They had to have realized it was the wrong house at some point during the looting of the property.


 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
84. It would be obvious to you that
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:10 PM
Jul 2013

all that cash coming out of the ATM was not yours. It would not necessarily be obvious until after the fact that some idiot got the wrong address. There would be no reason for a bank to do something like this on purpose as there is no real motive.

"They had to have realized it was the wrong house at some point during the looting of the property." The kink of guys hired to do this sort of thing are not there because of their brains. People walk away from a furnished house all the time. You are right of course that there are usually some personal things missing and house hold goods taken along, but it is not unusual for a foreclose house to be full of stuff. I do not believe the bank did this on purpose. This is a civil matter to the cops and prosecutor.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
103. That is a good point.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:47 PM
Jul 2013

But that doesn't change the outcome.

The fact that the 'moving' company didn't do due diligence and double check the address is ridiculous.
The GPS excuse is bullshit and the fact that the address is plainly visible on the mailbox does not absolve the movers or the bank from liability, or to me, criminality. They had to have realized that they had the wrong address at some point, and when they did, they crossed into criminal territory when they didn't return her possessions.

Honestly, I don't think that most foreclosures have tons of valuables left in them. If you are walking away, you will take your best things and leave the trash. I checked with a realtor friend of mine and he stated that most of the stuff left in a foreclosed home is crap. So that excuse doesn't wash either.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
105. I do agree
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:55 PM
Jul 2013

with you about the stuff left behind. I should have said full of shit. On the other end of the spectrum, I once bought a foreclosed townhouse and they took everything that wasn't nailed down inluding light bulbs and the glass globes from the light fixtures.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
118. I can see that.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 10:29 PM
Jul 2013

I looked at a house last year that they had even pulled the copper pipes and wiring out of the walls.
It was a fucking wreck. Our Realtor was pissed (at the selling realtor) that we even wasted time looking at it.
My wife never went past the front door!

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
119. I might suggest
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 10:57 PM
Jul 2013

that it is likely that the copper may have been stolen by thieves rather than the foreclosed former owners of the home.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
39. With the mounting anger at their callous injustices, it's no wonder they need to monitor us n/t
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 01:14 PM
Jul 2013
 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
41. I would sue anybody and everybody involved
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 01:25 PM
Jul 2013

Maybe that would cause them to think twice before making such "mistakes".

 

BlueNAlabama

(27 posts)
44. Settlement With a Non Disclosure Agreement
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 01:38 PM
Jul 2013

I think the bank will pay up without having to admit any wrong doing and she will be required to sign a non-disclosure agreement.

mainstreetonce

(4,178 posts)
46. There is a great book. House of Sand and Fog
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 01:44 PM
Jul 2013

That is a fictional account of such a mixup and the horror that follows. It is also a movie,but the book is better.

Phentex

(16,708 posts)
104. I forgot all about that book...
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:53 PM
Jul 2013

but now that you mention it, it WAS one mistake after another that nobody wanted to take responsibility for. Sad.

stlsaxman

(9,236 posts)
47. minimum settlement after treatment like that... 1st- pay remaining mortgages on house
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 01:58 PM
Jul 2013

2nd- refund at TWICE retail price all her belongings and

3rd- a cool 10 million spending money.

NOW we're talkin'!

Poll_Blind

(23,864 posts)
48. Good fucking lord, does the bank not understand what a goodamned jury would do to them?
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 02:00 PM
Jul 2013

Holy shit, I'd be writing out that $18k cheque lickety-fucking-split.

PB

alfredo

(60,289 posts)
51. When a CEO gets the "needle" for his crimes against America, then I would consider
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 02:06 PM
Jul 2013

a corporation is a person.

mountain grammy

(29,005 posts)
53. Unbelievable, shameful and sickening...
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 02:08 PM
Jul 2013

Go get em Katie! If you robbed the bank they would sure as hell come and get you!

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
81. Just wait... This ASSHOLE will laugh it off and do another house next to the one he was supposed to
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 05:39 PM
Jul 2013

... go after.

And laugh because our two tier justice won't put him behind bars for being the FUCKING CRIMINAL he is!

lpbk2713

(43,271 posts)
69. Usually banks have contractors do this sort of thing.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 03:17 PM
Jul 2013



It makes it easier for the banks to attempt to wipe their hands
of the whole mess when things go wrong as it did here. It isn't
always succesful for them but it gives them another loophole.

92. Honestly...
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:42 PM
Jul 2013

Honestly I think she is kinda lucky. Other than loosing all of her stuff, which sucks, now she is probably going to be paid a whole lot of money because the bank made a mistake. On top of that she will get her stuff back. And so now she will live with money, new stuff, and probably have her mortgages paid off. I'd be pissed at first, til my lawyer fixed it and I won the lottery XD

dsc

(53,386 posts)
98. this bank should lose its entire profit for each and every day they make this woman wait
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:00 PM
Jul 2013

before they pay her replacement value for every single thing they took. I bet if she accidentally took 10k from that bank and said she would only give them 8k back her ass would be in jail.

 

kelliekat44

(7,759 posts)
100. Can the new consumer agency do anything about this? Isn't there a law to protect the woman?
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:32 PM
Jul 2013

This is so sickening!!!

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
109. Exactly. This isn't the first time a bank has foreclosed on the wrong house.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 08:16 PM
Jul 2013

The innocent owner and/or tenants should get retail value for their lost belongings as well as other damages related to the screwup without the delay and expenses associated with negotiating a settlement or suing./

Sivafae

(480 posts)
106. Why aren't they in Jail? They broke into a house and took some else's belongings.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:56 PM
Jul 2013

They need to be held criminally liable for such behaviour.

KentuckyWoman

(7,398 posts)
117. I clicked expecting this to be Bank of America
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 10:12 PM
Jul 2013

Doesn't help get her family memories back but hopefully with the smaller bank she'll actually see the money from the eventual jugdement instead of dying before all the bank's appeals lumber their way through the court calendar.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»bank repos wrong house, g...