I just read a well written, properly linked article supporting the Zimmerman crash story.

[chieftain]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Autumn (a host of the General Discussion forum).

The post was from a long-time DUer with thousands of posts. But, and here's the but, it started out by suggesting that those of us had doubts about the veracity of the account were "getting to be like Birthers". I am not sure at what point it has become DU style to include disparaging remarks about those on the other side of the argument. I am afraid that the vitriol that W inspired in us is hard to turn off and now is directed inwardly almost as often as it is toward the RW.
The post I referenced is a pretty mild example of what I am talking about. The ad-hominem attacks, false equivalency comparisons and downright insulting name calling continue to take up more of our discourse. I think that that is a shame.

[hrmjustin]

1. Yes some people are upset we don't believe this fake Zimmerman PR story.

[Dagny_K]

2. Woman "Rescued" is cop's daughter

I find this FAR too weird a coincidence. I am from Daytona Beach. I've seen that Dana Gerstle's maiden name is Muffoletto, she is from Daytona, and has a brother named Joey. When I was growing up, the whole town knew a high-profile cop named Joe Muffoletto. Lt. Muffoletto visited all the schools to recruit for "Police Explorers" and he organized citizens policing groups that he called "the first line of defense against crime." It's just too weird. This woman has GOT to be his daughter. How did George Zimmerman manage to cross paths with this particular cop's daughter???

Here's an article about him from the Daytona paper.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1873&dat=19780712&id=C_IpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DNMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3801%2C4567002http://

[McPops]

4. I fail to see what you are driving at

The story dates to 1978. Why would Zimmerman have any knowledge of Lt. Muffoletto? Or his daughter, for that matter? Is Zimmerman from Daytona Beach?

Two people in the van. Neither of them police officers. One of them is the daughter of a police officer.

As far as coincidences go... meh.

[Dagny_K]

6. It's a BIZARRE coincidence

That article is just an example of the work Joe Muffoletto did for decades in Daytona Beach. Daytona and Sanford are about a half hour drive apart. It's just flippin' me out that for her to be a cop's daughter, she's the daughter of THAT ONE. The one who devoted his whole career to organizing citizen policing units. He was VERY high profile.

Doing a little more checking I see that after he retired from the DBPD, Joe Muffoletto worked in criminal justice education as recently as a few years ago including being the criminal justice coordinator at a Daytona college. Maybe he gave a presentation that Zimmerman attended. Citizen policing was his thing so Zimmerman certainly would have liked the guy.

[HipChick]

8. This is some interesting stuff, and deserves it's own thread for discussion

[Dagny_K]

12. I'm new!

I haven't made enough posts to start a discussion. If you'll start it I'll fill in the details

[McPops]

9. Have you established she is the daughter?

I somehow missed it.

[Dagny_K]

10. It seems likely she's the daughter

I've seen a number of references online to her name being "Dana Muffoletto Gerstle" including her own Pinterest page which references the name "Sadie," her daughter's name. Information about her appearing in the media says she is from Daytona Beach.

I've also seen that her Facebook page has been deleted but references were made to her brother "Joey's" FB page still being online.

Checking Zabasearch, there is one Joseph Muffoletto in Daytona who is 72 years old and one Joseph Muffoletto in Ormond who is 47. That would make him the older brother Joey.

Seems pretty darn likely to me.

[olddots]

25. could you hold on for a moment ?

I want to put my boots on

[Dagny_K]

33. For what?

Do you have a question? I've posted more details in another thread if you'd like me to quote it here.

[joeglow3]

23. Yeah. She rolled a car with her kids in it to help Zimmerman.

Give me a break.

[McPops]

3. Yeah, the logic has really dwindled.

So far I have seen circular logic, which goes something like this:

"Zimmerman killed a black kid because he was racist."

"How do we know that he was racist?"

"Because his victim was black!"


Then, the non-sequitur:

"How do we know Zimmerman is guilty of murder? Well... Trayvon is dead, isn't he?!?!"

Another example:

"Trayvon was just walking home with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea." (Yeah, but that doesn't mean he didn't attack Zimmerman first.)

The most common is the truth by blatant assertion:

"Zimmerman is guilty and anyone that disagrees with me is wrong and a racist supporter of murderers!"


The strangest one of them all goes something like the following:

"I blame the jury, there was evidence all over the place! I also blame the prosecution... they did a terrible job of presenting the evidence! I also blame the police; they screwed up the evidence collection!"

So... the police screwed up the investigation and the prosecution bungled the case and the jury was still supposed to convict?

[Control-Z]

16. Yeah, right. (nt)

[olddots]

26. um excuse me -------

maybe I shoud put on a raincoat too

[Pelican]

5. The reason is that there is equivalency..

... It really is just as stupid.

Don't like it? Don't do it...

[Pretzel_Warrior]

11. You're treading on thin ice with your tone

The OP makes a valid point that DU members should be more civil with one another even in disagreement. Then you throw your impolite retort. It's getting old.

[Llewlladdwr]

13. Man up.

It's a discussion board. If you can't handle disagreement don't participate.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

15. It's a discussion board--not a flame board or insult board

Someone who is calling for more civil tone doesn't need to "man up". Just need to militantly call out such lapses in decorum.

[Llewlladdwr]

21. Meh.

Whatev's...

[Cha]

24. Excellent point.. Key word is "discussion".. "man up"?

rofl. "whatev", lol

[pnwmom]

18. "Man up"???

[Pelican]

20. Crazy is crazy...

[kestrel91316]

22. That poster isn't going to last long. Just watch.

[sigmasix]

7. we're supposed to believe

to be "open minded" wemre supposed to beleive that the police call private citizens to call on crash scenes. We're invited to entertain the notion that standford police's S O P is to call on non-trained civilian individuals to be their 1st responders.
When right wing hatemongers become so confident that they brag about their own racism while altering laws to make their racist ideology an accepted, maverick position of unintentional racist coincidence. Why do teabaggers hate America?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

19. You don't have to believe it or even entertain it as a rational conclusion. But

You should think about the rules of effective argumentation and not let emotion get the better of you if you hope to do any persuading.

[pnwmom]

14. Some people don't understand that you're not trying to talk about Zimmerman here.

Thanks for your anti-vitriol, pro-respectful-discussion OP. Too bad the people who most need to think about it probably won't do so.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

17. It's crazy, isn't it? This call for civility is bringing them out of the woodwork.

[joshcryer]

31. Ironically, OP is talking about a Zim defender being uncivil.

Calling anyone who disagrees "birthers."

And everyone read the OP as if it was accusing Zim condemners of being nasty...

[pnwmom]

34. You're right. I guess some people are so used to arguing

that they don't even notice when someone basically agrees with them.

[awoke_in_2003]

27. This won't be so well written...

Fuck George Zimmerman.

[JI7]

28. most of the Zimmerman supporters are wingnut trolls

[Zoeisright]

29. So?

That entire team has lied from day one. I don't believe a fucking thing that murderer or his asshole supporters have to say.

[Swagman]

32. I agree

[joshcryer]

30. I've found that the more nasty folks here can't handle facts.

You can throw facts at them all day and night, they just can't deal with them. They're like global warming deniers or creationists, and they even use the same argumentation style. Nothing can be done. So I wouldn't blame someone for accusing the non-fact-accepters of "getting to be like birthers" because that'd be an apt comparison to the nasty insults by the fact haters. I personally try to avoid personal attacks despite being on the receiving end of them on a regular basis here, but some people can only take so much.

[chieftain]

35. Thanks to all those that responded to the point of the OP.

I admit it has been an education watching what some have turned the thread into.