Sorry but the US promising not to seek the death penalty after extradition is not unusual

[Cali_Democrat]

In fact, it is actually quite normal. Typically when people who are wanted in the United States are apprehended in foreign countries, especially countries which have outlawed the death penalty, it is actually the norm for the US to promise not to seek capital punishment.

In fact, the US has extradition treaties with a number of countries and many of them prevent the US from seeking the death penalty against suspects wanted in the United States.

For example, US-Mexico extradition treaty specifically blocks executions. This is also the case with many other countries around the world.

Can you imagine if the United States DID NOT rule out the possible execution of Snowden? What would people say then?

Oh my GAWD!!! THEY WILL EXECUTE HIM!!!!

Right? So if the US rules out execution, it's an outrage. If the US does not rule out execution, it's an outrage.

Sorry to rain on the latest outrage parade.

Carry on.

[Scurrilous]

1. Me gustan los desfiles!!

[Bluenorthwest]

2. No nation in our hemisphere nor any European nation executes anyone for anything

but we do. Holder also had to mention that he'd not torture the accused. A new low for our barbaric society.

[Cali_Democrat]

4. I think the death penalty should be outlawed

I'm just pointing out the fact that the US promising not to seek the death penalty for suspects after extradition is not unusual.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. Ah, because I'm pointing out why that is, our peer nations are horrified that we

still do this so yeah, they will often refuse to send us accused prisoners because they fear we will kill them. Now it's also torture they worry about, and that is a new low.
The people who did this to our country are the ones who should be on the lamb.

[cali]

3. right. it's usual for the U.S.- not for most countries

and the U.S. is the only country in the G-7 that executes people. In any case, that's not the foremost issue: that would be the sad and bizarre promise not to torture him.

[Cali_Democrat]

5. So if the US did not rule out torture? What then?

Oh my GAWD!! They will torture him!!!

Predictable outrage is predictable.

[cali]

16. I doubt it, but that's hardly the point, which you're doing a lot

of dancing to avoid- and that's understandable. Let me put it plainly- and please note that this is not screeching or outrage:

It's a shame that we're the only country in this hemisphere as well as Europe, that has the death penalty. We're backward that way.

It's a shame that we're a country that has to explicitly spell out that we won't torture someone we want extradited. We've developed a reputation, not wholly undeservedly, for torturing both outside this country and in it. We're not trusted not to torture. That's a sad statement right there.

[Cali_Democrat]

24. "I doubt it"

LOL....riiiiiight.

[xfundy]

78. Can you not admit that the USA is now a country known for torture?

Torture? Brought back by Cheeney and Jr Bush?

Of course it probably has happened in secret for decades, but now US torture tactics are known to be part of official tactics?

Do you not care how barbaric these tactics are?

Fucking TORTURE?

[Bluenorthwest]

20. Pathetic and shameful that this nation has to make mention of torture much less

put forth promises to the Russians that we will not torture our own citizen. Once upon a time such a thing was unthinkable, but Bush and others have degraded our nation.
When I was born this nation of ours was considered above such things. We prosecuted our former enemies for torture of prisoners, including waterboarding.

[Cali_Democrat]

54. I agree. n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

63. You do? Not being snarky, but that really surprises me.

This thread has a few folks who are apparently not bothered by the fact that we lost standing in the world via Bush and the aftermath of Bush. They say my views are 'Bizzaro World' if I think it is sad that our country has to explain that we stopped torturing. They play word games and personal snark about a topic that could not be more dour or serious in nature. I really don't get that. Characterizations of others for caring about our national reputation.....

[Tx4obama]

6. I remember this issue coming up in the case regarding Joran Van der Sloot

... the guy that killed Natalee Holloway.

One of the countries he was in said they wouldn't send him back to The USA unless the death penalty was taken off of the table.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. She was murdered in Aruba, the US had no jurisdiction nor ability to extradict him

to the US. Crime happened in Netherlands jurisdiction. Why would he be brought 'back' to the US?

[Tx4obama]

72. I believe the issue came up while he was in Peru - after he killed the second girl...

Reason to be brought back to USA is because of extortion charges - when he tried to exact money out of Natalee's mother.

-snip-

2010 charges in the United States

Around March 29, 2010, Van der Sloot allegedly contacted John Q. Kelly, legal representative of Natalee's mother Beth Holloway, with an offer to reveal the location of her daughter's body and the circumstances surrounding her death for an advance of US$25,000 against a total of $250,000.[64] Kelly said that he secretly went to Aruba in April to meet with Van der Sloot, who was desperate for money, and gave him $100. Kelly notified the Federal Bureau of Investigation to set up a sting operation with the Aruban authorities.[65][66] On May 10, Van der Sloot allegedly accepted the amount of $15,000 by wire transfer to his account in the Netherlands, following a cash payment of $10,000 that was videotaped by undercover investigators in Aruba.[67][68] In exchange, Van der Sloot told Kelly that his father buried Holloway's remains in the foundation of a house. Authorities determined that the information that he in return provided was false, because the house had not yet been built at the time of Holloway's disappearance.[69] Van der Sloot later e-mailed Kelly that he lied about the house.[65] Holloway was shocked that the FBI did not promptly file extortion charges against Van der Sloot, allowing him to leave freely with the money to Bogotá, Colombia, on his way to Lima, Peru.[69][70] The FBI and the office of the U.S. Attorney contended that the case had not yet been sufficiently developed.[66]

On June 3, 2010, the U.S. District Court of Northern Alabama charged Van der Sloot with extortion and wire fraud. U.S. Attorney Joyce W. Vance issued an arrest warrant through Interpol to have Van der Sloot prosecuted in the United States.[3] On June 4, at the request of the U.S. Justice Department, authorities raided and confiscated items from two homes in the Netherlands, one of them belonging to reporter Jaap Amesz who had previously interviewed Van der Sloot and claimed knowledge of his criminal activities.[71] Aruban investigators used information gathered from the extortion case to launch a new search at a beach, but no new evidence was found.[72] The Solicitor General said they would not seek Van der Sloot's extradition to Aruba.[73] On June 30, a federal grand jury formally indicted Van der Sloot of the two charges. The indictment filed with the U.S. District Court seeks the forfeiture of the $25,100 that had been paid to Van der Sloot.[10]

In an interview published by De Telegraaf on September 6, 2010, Van der Sloot admitted to the extortion plot, stating: "I wanted to get back at Natalee's family. Her parents have been making my life tough for five years." Van der Sloot's attorney said that his client was not paid for the interview and suggested that "maybe there were some mistakes in the translation."[74]

-snip-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joran_van_der_sloot

[treestar]

7. But this is happening to St. Snowden!!!11

So it is extra-special super duper!!!!!!

[freshwest]

90. Don't defame Lord Snowden. The UK has laws against libel, you know!

The family's coat-of-arms, not a photoshop. Now, just you curtsy nicely. Yes, that's better. And for good measure.

[treestar]

104. thank you for finding that!!!1111111

Now I have something to curtsy to!!!!!

[Cha]

101. yeah, "extra special" alright. lol "Poll- boner's ratings are just above zimmer and snowden"..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023352473

[treestar]

105. OMG!!!!!1111

How dare Zimmer get the prize and the attention!!!!!11111



It's time for another way to get into the news! Maybe save the life of a tourist choking on caviar in the transit lounge!

[Enrique]

8. I expected this thread to contain a similar case

which is the first thing i asked when I heard about this. I thought, wow is this a first for the U.S.?

That question remains unanswered.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

11. is your google broken?

step to it

[Recursion]

12. It's not a first or even a thousandth

It's part of every extradition request I've ever heard of.

[Bluenorthwest]

15. We are the only western nation and the only nation in the Americas which has a

death penalty, so other countries want to know if we intend to kill the accused. We do not regularly say 'we will not torture him' and Holder did just that. New low for Eric, who is pretty low already.

[Recursion]

18. It's a "new low" to remind another country that we don't torture?

WTF upside-down land have I landed in?

[Bluenorthwest]

28. Here's the New Yorker

“Mr. Snowden will not be tortured,” Attorney General Eric Holder wrote in a letter sent to Russia’s Minister of Justice on Wednesday. He added, as if saying so were adequate—as if it had, in recent years, been enough—“Torture is unlawful in the United States.” The letter, which the Department of Justice gave to the Times, is part of what appear to be discussions between the Obama Administration and the Putin government about where Edward Snowden, the N.S.A. leaker, might go next. He has been living in the transit zone of Moscow’s Sheremetyevo International Airport for some weeks now. Holder said that it wasn’t true that, with his passport revoked, Snowden couldn’t go anywhere without asylum: the government would gladly give him “a limited validity passport good for direct return to the United States”—and nowhere else. When he got here, Holder said, he wouldn’t be killed:

Holder said that he was writing to counter fears expressed in Snowden’s asylum application. What is striking, though, reading his letter, is how non-obvious these very obvious things have become. The United States has tortured, as much as the Obama Administration has disowned the practice. It has played fast and loose with the question of venues, keeping both American and non-American citizens out of the civilian courts where they belong. In just the past few weeks, lawyers for detainees at Guantánamo had to fight to keep from having their clients’ right to counsel undermined by the imposition of gratuitous genital searches before even simple contacts like phone calls to lawyers. (The Obama Administration did say Friday that it would begin the process of repatriating two Algerian prisoners; they are among eighty-six who are being held even though they’ve been cleared for release.)
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2013/07/holder-we-wont-torture-or-kill-snowden.html

If you really don't get it, what can I say?

[Recursion]

29. What about any of that do you find objectionable?

Seriously, I'm looking for something even mildly problematic here and I'm coming up totally blank. I'm not being coy; I'm literally mystified why people are upset about this. Can you help me out?

[Bluenorthwest]

34. I was raised by a WW2 Vet, to me what is problematic is self evident

If you can't understand me, nor others saying the same thing, I have to assume you came up in a culture very different from the one I came up in.

[Recursion]

36. I was raised by a Vietnam vet and I am an Iraq vet

Under the previous administration, prisoners were tortured. This no longer happens. Holder is making that policy clear. Furthermore, he's making clear that the US does not seek capital punishment against Snowden (which is hardly surprising, since nobody has alleged he committed a capital crime).

What in God's name is wrong with that?

[Bluenorthwest]

43. So you served in the Abu Ghraib War.

After WW2 we prosecuted our defeated enemies for doing what was done under Bushco and we let our own guilty walk away. You don't see what's wrong with that? Did you support torture under Bush?

[Recursion]

45. WTF?

Did you support torture under Bush?



I'm totally lost.

We used to torture under Bush.

We don't anymore.

Holder is saying we don't anymore.

You're angry that he's saying it. I'm glad he's saying it.

And you're asking if I support torture? You're the one saying we shouldn't announce our no-torture policy.

[Bluenorthwest]

52. No, I am saying it we should not have created the need to announce we stopped

torturing people. Do you think it is good that our reputation has been so stained that we need to say 'we stopped that, we promise' about torture? We did not call out the guilty much less punish them so the claim that we dealt with it and it is behind us is very much strained.
To say 'you're the one saying' and then type shit I did not say is rude and pathetic.

[Jerry442]

82. The detention of Bradley Manning has occured wholly during Obama's terms in office.

Not so ridiculous for Russia to believe Snowden would be treated exactly as Manning.

[Recursion]

85. And Manning was not tortured

He was held in solitary for too long, and a judge required that to be stopped.

[Jerry442]

111. Amnesty International's letter to (then) Secretary of Defense Robert Gates re: Manning

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/AMR51/006/2011/en/df463159-5ba2-416a-8b98-d52df0dc817a/amr510062011en.pdf

[Laelth]

109. According to the Federal Government of the United States ...

... waterboarding is not torture.

If I were an American ally, I would take America's promise not to torture a given suspect with a grain of salt.

-Laelth

[OilemFirchen]

113. This is the Undercratic Demoground.

Welcome.

Blowtorches and hairspray are available in the lounge.

[randome]

21. So what would you have had him say, then?

I really don't understand. Some complain that Snowden is right to run to Russia because he stands a chance of being tortured.

Holder makes a public statement saying that won't happen.

What would you rather Holder had said? He didn't support Bush, Jr.'s torture go-round.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[Recursion]

31. It's like we're fully in bizarro-world

People fatuously claim Snowden will face torture or execution.

Holder makes clear that he won't.

Same people freak out even more. WTF?

[Bluenorthwest]

38. Yes Bizzaro World, in which you and your few fellows here can't grasp what I and

the NYer and many in Congress are saying. Bizzaro!!!!!!!

Same people? Support that assertion. I never said any such thing, I'm horrified that Holder felt it was needed.

[Recursion]

41. Can you please try, at least?

Seriously. Why should a country that has a policy against torture be ashamed to say that?

[Bluenorthwest]

47. Because Bushco torture and we let them go as if it was just fine to torture.

What is shameful is to have the need to say 'we have a policy against torture NOW and we don't torture ANYMORE although we did not punish those among us who did torture'.
Once that was not rhetoric the United States needed to engage in. It is sad that we do need to say such things. Sad that they are in the right to question us.

[Recursion]

48. So your complaint is against Bush and Cheney, not Holder. Mine too.

It will take a long time to unfuck the mess those guys made.

[Bluenorthwest]

55. Leonardo DaVinci said 'He who refuses to punish evil commands it to occur'

And I agree with Leonardo so my compliant is against Bushco and those who refused to so much as discover the truth much less punish their evils. It will take much, much longer to unfuck the mess without justice being done. Obama had to 'turn the page, look forward' and this is what we get 'No, really, we don't do that anymore, I promise!'. Bad stewards of our national ethics.

[Bluenorthwest]

57. Also I missed the part where you supported your assertion that the same pepole

are critical of Holder who said Snowden would be tortured. Can you support that? I know I never said any such thing, you seem to be insinuating that I did.

[Recursion]

58. Read DU some time

In particular, look at the four hair-on-fire OP's about this letter.

[randome]

40. I guess they were comfortable with the illusion of Snowden as a hero.

If he can stay out of the clutches of the evil empire, then it's easier to think of him as aggrieved.

But...it's not about Snowden, right? I'm so confused!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[Enrique]

49. it's the first

until I see a second.

[Recursion]

53. Is Google broken today? Start with Abu Hamza

Our request to the UK included an assurance that he would not face the death penalty.

[Enrique]

59. there it is

this case pretty much answers my question. Once I had the name, I could Google it. Before I had the name, I'm not sure how I could have found it.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jul/08/abu-hamza-human-rights-ruling

European court of human rights will not allow Abu Hamza and three other men to be extradited until it is satisfied he will be treated humanely

[Recursion]

60. I thought the question was about a promise not to seek the death penalty, sorry

Yes, the assurance that Snowden will not be tortured is unusual, and probably has something to do with Snowden's own claims that he will be.

The assurance not to seek the death penalty is required of all EU extradition requests AFAIK.

[kentuck]

10. OMG!

This virus is worse than I thought.

[cali]

19. It's pretty bad. n/t

[davidn3600]

17. The US does not have an extradition treaty with Russia

They don't have to do anything we say.

Does the US send defectors back? If we got a defector from North Korea, China, Russia, Iran, any any country for that matter. Are we sending him back? No. We won't.

So why the fuck should we expect Putin to send American defectors back to us?

This is why the world thinks America is nothing but a bunch of arrogant hypocrites. We think we rule the world. We're really not that important anymore. Our economic might is weakened. Our military is stretched thin. We spy on everyone. And record on human and civil rights is falling beyond the modern world. We have 7 times more prisoners per capita than China. CHINA!! And now we feel the need to make promises to RUSSIA that we won't torture or kill a defector that just made our government look like a bunch of paranoid Orwellian freaks?

This would have NEVER even happened if our government was respecting our own constitution. The 4th amendment is worthless now because of this fucking stupid war on terrorism that that the government feels gives them the authority to do whatever they want.

[cali]

22. Preach it, brother

[Cali_Democrat]

25. I don't think Snowden will even be extradited from Russia.

Highly unlikely and it definitely shouldn't be expected.

[randome]

26. As Kerry pointed out, we did give them back some Russians we had in prison about 2 years ago.

I forget if they were spies or simply wanted felons.

And China kills a much greater proportion of those found guilty so the comparison of our prison population with China's is invalid.

But we do have too many people imprisoned who don't belong there, I have no argument there.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[Pretzel_Warrior]

37. please read your post aloud into a recording device

and then play it back and see how dumb your entire post sounds.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

70. If you're not capable of elucidating what you think is wrong with the post you're replying to...

...then maybe you shouldn't have bothered. 'It's stupid ,cuz I said so' is more appropriate to a daycare center than a discussion board.

[Progressive dog]

61. Snowden hasn't been sent back to USA from the airport,

but I don't remember any defector to the USA having to live at an airport.

[treestar]

62. OMG why don't you just move there?

Or leave this horrible country?

This would never have happened had Snowden faced responsibility for what he has done. Good grief!

[Cronus Protagonist]

23. But can we trust US?

I wouldn't put my own life at risk just on the promise of the current US Government leaders. Snowden's life is on the line here and talk is cheap. Very cheap.

[DevonRex]

27. I don't know why you bother.

Honestly. They believe the United States is the worst place on the face of the earth. Nothing you can say will change their minds. They also think you are either stupid or are working for the administration. But you know that already. You've seen it said outright as many times as I have.

[treestar]

67. They keep saying we have more prisoners than China

So I guess that makes China a better place!

Too bad China won't let them immigrate. They could live in a freer place with fewer prisoners.

If Russia is so wonderful, why have they stuck Ed at the airport?

They should have admitted him into the nation to let him enjoy the freedom there. And let him inspect their national security system so he can tell them what is wrong with it. That's what is so odd - they are overlooking Russia's treatment of their hero. Just because it's not here, it must be better.

[DevonRex]

94. Funny that they trust China's and Russia's stated numbers, isn't it?

They must be very, very young. Or very, very forgetful.

[freshwest]

91. Some people really do believe in American exceptionalism. We are the Masters of the Universe!

Despite all evidence to the contrary, it's the only belief in America some can handle.

We are all-powerful, know all that goes on and we control everything on Planet Earth!

What incredible egotism!

[DevonRex]

93. Isn't it ridiculous?

They want our noses out of everything but if anything goes wrong it's automatically all our fault. While simultaneously implying we're too stupid to dress ourselves in the morning. All in the same paragraph.

[freshwest]

97. Well, you know, if you don't have that onboard camera disabled, they know if you're dressed.

Nice nighty you got there, Devon!

Seriously, the magical thinking tells them that.

Don't ruin the fun with facts.

[DevonRex]

98. EEEEeeek!!!

OK. I'm covered up now. Don't let the kitty loose in NSA, though. The wizard behind the big door who runs the show is a hamster. Yep. All powered by a hamster on a wheel. We call him WOZ. Short for Wizard of Oz. Or Wozzy.

[freshwest]

100. Yep, the Kittehs would take the NSA out in a minute. They'd never see them coming:

Sorry, but Wozzy doesn't stand a chance!

Not actually a hamster, but just work with me on this meme!

And thanks for covering up. The paranoia at DU is too thick at times. We don't want this OP hidden as a sex thread...

[Purveyor]

30. The only 'parade' that is being 'rained on' is yours and the goosestepping 'surveillance state'.

enablers that Edward Snowden has cracked wide-open.

[elehhhhna]

32. Announcing we promise not to torture him is fuckng shameful

not the announcement, or the promise, but the NEED TO DO IT



I feel sick. Where did my country go?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

42. well, when people are running around like headless chickens

yelling that he will be tortured(and said person applies for asylum on said grounds), they kinda have to say 'hey, we will not do any of that crap'

So i quite agree that its shameful that it has to be said, though its hardly the governments fault

[Recursion]

44. Huh? We tortured people less than a decade ago. We don't anymore

Why shouldn't we remind people of that policy?

[elehhhhna]

69. don't we? you sure?

[Recursion]

71. Pretty sure, yeah (nt)

[cherokeeprogressive]

75. Could "Pretty sure..." be compared to "reasonable doubt"?

[RC]

84. Do you Guantanamo?

Those forced feeding are not because the prisoners are happy and pampered.
And in themselves, those force feeding do constitute torture. That feeding tube is extremely uncomfortable.

Watch: What It’s Like for Guantanamo Detainees to Undergo Forced Feedings
http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/watch_what_its_like_for_guantamo_detainees_to_be_force_fed_20130708/

[Recursion]

86. It's hard for me to call keeping somebody alive torture

But, yeah, they should probably do that differently.

[OilemFirchen]

114. One of our most insidious Catch-22s.

Congress will not fund the repatriation of these prisoners, and their home countries will not accept them even if Congress relents. Congress will not allow their relocation stateside.

I believe that they should be allowed to starve themselves, as there are fates worse than death. We are, nonetheless, a humane society whose sensitivities simply cannot allow that. One can only imagine the howls of outrage worldwide should we withdraw sustenance and allow them to perish. But force-feeding is torture - and understandably so.

I cannot think of a contemporary situation in which there are such dire repercussions no matter what options are exercised.

That said, any comparisons between exonerated Gitmo detainees and Snowden are disgusting.

[ProSense]

33. I still say, that

"Sorry but the US promising not to seek the death penalty after extradition is not unusual"

...that Holder's letter wasn't a "promise." He dismissed Snowden's claims as being "without merit."

Holder clearly stated: "These claims are entirely without merit."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023345900

Still, the cries of OMG, WTF? He's has to promise not to torture are interesting.

Should Holder have written:

"These claims are entirely without merit, but I will not 'promise' anything."

Would that have prevented the outrage.

This letter clearly doesn't help Snowden's situation.

Russia gets to decide.

[freshwest]

115. If Russia houses him with Pussy Riot, would that be considered torture? (NSFW)

Last edited Sat Jul 27, 2013, 01:22 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.metafilter.com/120493/Pussy-Riot-in-Prison

The pictures mentioned in the discussion at the link can be found by clicking on the text.

Warning, they are NSFW.

[Thinkingabout]

35. Which of his charges calls for the death penalty?

[Enrique]

46. espionage n/t

[Thinkingabout]

51. It is prison time and a fine, you are following the wrong crowd.

[Recursion]

56. Espionage is not a capital crime. Snowden is looking at a few years in jail (nt)

[davidn3600]

68. Sure if 30 years is a "few" in your mind...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2346247/Edward-Snowdon-NSA-whistleblower-faces-30-years-prison-charged-espionage-theft-U-S-government.html

It's practically a life sentence..

[Scurrilous]

65. Bad penmanship.

[freshwest]

96. None. It's just more dramatic to present it that way. No drama, no airtime.

Sources saying it won't happen:

U.S. assures Russia no death penalty for Snowden

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/07/26/edward-snowden-fbi-russia-nsa/2589319/

Holder Not Seeking Death Penalty Against Snowden

Attorney General Eric Holder is assuring Russia that the US will not seek the death penalty for NSA leaker Edward Snowden. Instead, Holder says Snowden will be tried in a civilian court.

Snowden is wanted by the US on charges of espionage. He is currently holed up in Moscow’s airport awaiting approval on a temporary asylum request for Russia.

http://nightcaptv.com/2013/07/26/holder-not-seeking-death-penalty-against-snowden/

Makes sense, he's a civilian and not in the military. He's not charged with treason, but espionage. Not the same:

Treason charges for Snowden would be rare, challenging

http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2013/06/treason-charges-for-snowdon-would-be-rare-challenging/

I've been told by attorneys on DU that the term 'treason' was so abused during the Bush years by media, that its legal meaning has been lost to the public. Treason is a very specific crime.

One site saying he does face the death penalty, is a tad shady. Note the dramatic punctuation employed:

NSA Whistleblower Edward Snowden Facing Death Penalty!

http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2013/06/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-facing-death-penalty-2528582.html

I won't link to Infowars, but they say Snowden is a hero! Greenwald is cool! And Kerry is a traitor! Which really puts into Patriot, Libertarian, Tea Party and Paulite territory. But we all knew that, didn't we?

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/profiles/alex-jones

Which explains the vitriol that is directed at the well-known Democrat John Kerry and naturally PBO, as Jones has made a media empire off of ascribing every evil that has ever been known, or ever will be known, to Obama.

But then, they are Libertarian and hate Democrats, which they call the Fabian Society decievers. statist, anti-Christ, godless, population reduction Liberals and this and that, etc!

This is compared to their new hero, James O'Keefe and of course the Birchers. Jones had spouted off that Assange was part of a NWO plot to use as an excuse to shut down the internet, but now he's joined the team, showing more of his GOP roots.

[JaneyVee]

39. We have to promise because we're still paying for Bush trashing our

International reputation.

[Bluenorthwest]

50. Some here don't find that to be sad or don't understand it at all

nt

[davidn3600]

64. Bush created the reputation, and Obama has done nothing to repair it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

66. Better solution. Call off the dogs and give the whistleblower his passport back.

And, if they're so itchy to prosecute some real criminals, let them issue warrants and seize the passports of those who order assassinations, torture, and start wars.

[Tx4obama]

88. Better solution: Arrest Snowden, have a pubic trial, then toss him in prison. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

92. To what purpose?

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

73. I trust a man vetted by millions of Americans and a ruthless press... TWICE,

over some asshole I've never heard of breaking the law and fleeing the country.

[stonecutter357]

80. K&R

This^^^^^

[Cha]

102. yeah, and it seems a lot of the country feels the same..

"Poll: puts boner just above zimmerman and snowden.."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023352473

[cherokeeprogressive]

74. You are SO right. If I've heard it once, I've heard it a thousand times...

WE WON'T EXECUTE OR TORTURE THE PRISONER.

How could I have forgotten that?

Do you have brown eyes?

[Iliyah]

76. I know, but alas

2013 I guess is a learning experience for some. Thanks Cali_Democrat!

[tsuki]

77. I suppose promising not to torture him is normal also for the US. nt

[tritsofme]

79. I assume most people knew this and that their "outrage" is completely disingenuous and manufactured

But maybe I give too much credit.

[Iliyah]

81. No - tritsofme

its real. Instagram, Twitter, Ipods, Iphone, Internet, telephone - even on the street phone, any electronics of any kind "must" first be APPROVED through the US Government and please do not say otherwise. As mentioned before, the US as well as other countries main concern is to protect their own interest. Some countries are of course have more "money" than others and have so they think, smarter people. Snowden got information from a contractor who seriously should not be involved in the US security program.

[tritsofme]

83. Thanks, but I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the OP or my response.

And that this is routine for US extradition requests.

[Tx4obama]

87. 'charges Snowden faces do not carry a possibility of the death penalty, Holder told Min. of Justice'

Eric Holder tells Russia U.S. won't seek death penalty for Edward Snowden

-snip-

The charges that Snowden faces do not carry a possibility of the death penalty, Holder told Minister of Justice Alexander Vladimirovich Konovalov, and even if Snowden is charged with additional crimes that could come with the death penalty, the U.S. government will not seek the death penalty for those charges.

-snip-

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/eric-holder-edward-snowden-russia-death-penalty-94803.html?hp=r3

[liberal_at_heart]

89. boy nothing is unusual to some people on DU. It's not unusual for US to spy, torture, and kill.

No big deal. Of course we know they do it, but the fact that they do do is shocking. We are America. We should demand more from our government than some third world totalitarian regime.

[arely staircase]

95. The Attorney General's letter is only a big deal because it is a high profile case

Obviously it is standard procedure for the Department of Justice to write a letter to the foreign country's appropriate agency in which a fugitive US citizen is applying for asylum.

[Violet_Crumble]

99. Yr correct. I think most countries that have outlawed the DP refuse to extradite...

They'll only do it if the US promises that the person being extradited won't face the death penalty. I just posted this example of the US making such an assurance to Australia when it came to murder charges and the extradition of a US man a few years ago...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Tina_Watson

[Riftaxe]

103. Nope, not unusual at all just craven

besides, once in custody, who is to keep the country to our words, We have long since burned any credence in foreign policy.

[BainsBane]

107. Craven not to execute?

[BainsBane]

106. that's because the rest of the world sees the DP as a human rights violation

and rightfully so.

[Laelth]

108. It is thoroughly embarrassing that we have to make such a promise.

That we still have the death penalty at all is what's embarrassing. We wouldn't look like such barbarians to our allies if we just got rid of it. Then we wouldn't have to make such promises.

The administration's promise not to torture Snowden, on the other hand, is a waste of ink. According to our government, water-boarding is not torture.

-Laelth

[baldguy]

112. The idea that Obama would seek to assassinate, torture or execute his critics

is straight from the Tea Bagger playbook.