Christopher Hitchens always had a drink in his hand, but he was one of the finest minds in the media

[GiaGiovanni]

I disagreed with him on the existence of God, but always found him highly intelligent, verbally clever, and very mentally stimulating.



Would rather listen to a drunk Hitch than a sober Pat Robertson any day.

[Skittles]

1. he was never boring

Christopher was what he was, no apologies - I was sad to hear of his illness and passing

[Warpy]

51. Exactly, always a good read

with a wonderful use of words even when I wanted to slap him silly for being so wrong about one thing or another.

I miss him.

[Laffy Kat]

2. Miss him a lot. n/t

[leveymg]

3. He's missed. Particularly the pre-2003 Christopher Hitchens

before he threw his lot in with The Poodle and New Labour. But, he did stand by his commitment to the Iraq War, even long after that mistake was dispensed with by less principled people.

His diatribes against Henry Kissinger's war crimes are classics.

[GiaGiovanni]

5. When did he actually become a US citizen?

I find that recent citizens tend to be more defensive of their new country and what it does.

[leveymg]

15. He had been living here since '81, and his NATZ was in '07

according to one source I found. You could tell that he really adored and admired this country, as only those from somewhere else can.

[joshcryer]

10. Damn, thought he recanted / admitted he was wrong on Iraq.

Looks like that's not the case. :/

Now I'm trying to think about which high profile media guy did admit he was wrong about Iraq.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. Andrew Sullivan 'recanted' but he also spent much time attacking those who

opposed the war and he never bothered to apologize for that. In addition he claimed he'd never forgive himself for being so very wrong but a week later he was yet again pushing his shitty opinions as high value material, again attacking those who did not agree with him as if he'd not been so blood soaked wrong.

[joshcryer]

14. Ahh, I may be thinking of him.

But the way you frame it, I dunno. Still, shame Hitch never admitted he was wrong, even if he did it that way and still kept the ego. He was obviously wrong. No arguing it. I think he was blinded by his whole religion is evil shtick.

[delrem]

61. Glen Greenwald.

Totally recanted.

[joshcryer]

62. I thought he pretended to never have supported it.

[delrem]

63. Absolutely not.

And he criticized himself unmercifully for his naivete.

[joshcryer]

64. I don't recall that.

I just remember this piece that gets circulated regularly here defending him:

When the Iraq War was debated and then commenced, I was not a writer. I was not a journalist. I was not politically engaged or active. I never played any role in political debates or controversies. Unlike the countless beloved Democrats who actually did support the war - including Obama's Vice President Joe Biden and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton - I had no platform or role in politics of any kind.

I never once wrote in favor of the Iraq War or argued for it in any way, shape or form. Ask anyone who claims that I "supported" the Iraq War to point to a single instance where I ever supported or defended it in any way. There is no such instance. It's a pure fabrication.

At the time, I was basically a standard passive consumer of political news: I read The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Atlantic: the journals that I thought high-end consumers of news would read and which I assumed were generally reliable for getting the basic truth. What I explained in the Preface was that I had major objections to the Iraq war when it was being debated:

...

But anyone using this Preface to claim I was a "supporter" of the Iraq War is simply fabricating. At worst, I was guilty of apathy and passivity. I did nothing for or against it because I assumed that those in positions to exercise adversarial scrutiny - in journalism and politics - were doing that. It's precisely my realization of how profoundly deceitful and failed are American political and media institutions that motivated me to begin working on politics, and it's those realizations which continue to motivate me now.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/30/1182442/-Glenn-Greenwald-Responds-to-Widespread-Lies-About-Him-on-Cato-Iraq-War-and-more

[delrem]

66. Look, he's saying he was a politically apathetic jerk! What more do you want?

Do you want him to lie and say he was a writer? To lie and say he was a journalist?
Or are you saying he's lying, and that he was a politically active journalist who supported the Iraq war in writings?

I honestly don't get your desire to hang this man for a crime he did not do.

[joshcryer]

67. Erm, you're the one alleging he was an Iraq War recanter.

I don't think that's true.

[delrem]

68. In a democracy apathy = acceptance of the status quo.

Greenwald knows that obvious truth and that's why he specifically and carefully noted it.

Politically apathetic people, in a *democracy*, tacitly support what is done in their name -- support can come in that kind of almost negative, apathetic nothing way, as well as in a positive history with journal articles or editorials etc. supporting the war. Greenwald's last two sentences acknowledge that and explained where he was at.

He is acknowledging, and apologizing for, the tacit support that he gave.

(this is now end of message - I leave you to your thoughts about Greenwald)

[joshcryer]

69. Yet he frames apathy as neutral.

In the very quote I selected.



I don't see a recanting or an acceptance that he supported Iraq War or an apology. Just weasel words.

And he still thinks corporations are people.

[delrem]

70. Nah, you're talking about yourself now. Not Greenwald.

[joshcryer]

71. Which part?

I don't think apathy is neutral but I don't have a problem with it and don't think people should apologize for it.

[delrem]

72. Your question has nothing to do with what we were talking about.

[joshcryer]

73. Citizens United?

Which Greenwald supports?

[delrem]

75. Hey, I don't want to join your "I hate Greenwald" fanclub.

I don't like assholes.

[joshcryer]

76. I don't hate him.

[delrem]

78. ah, you just go into this kind of BS detail - because you ....

[joshcryer]

79. Were insulted for no reason?

Sorry the additional detail riled you up so much. Must've struck a nerve.

[delrem]

81. Yeah, joshcryer. You can say that truly. nt

[joshcryer]

82. You said I lied.

When I didn't, my words speak for themselves.

[delrem]

83. OK - I agree that your words speak for themselves.

[Whisp]

4. I admired him.

He pissed me off so bad a lot of times, but that man was not stupid or boring, ever.

[GiaGiovanni]

6. True. He always had a way of tearing off hypocrisy

That's what I liked about him.

[arely staircase]

7. I disagreed strongly with him in his later years

I thought he went off the rails during the Lewinski/Clinton business and his support of the Iraq war was inexcusable. But even as a Christian, I didn't mind his atheist arguments. And I am in a good mood (the type Hitch knew so well, if you get my drift) so here is to Hitch. a good man and a true intellectual. I miss him.

[GiaGiovanni]

11. Gotcha!

And I miss his presence in this world of stupid talking heads. Some of my favorites were his Hitchslaps:

[cprise]

35. He helped give atheism a bad name

He 'won' his debate in support of the Iraq war using mainly ad hominem. And some of the arguments he made against Islam were very bigoted, intentionally ignoring hundreds of years of history.

I'm a humanist but Hitchens struck me as some kind of alchohol-fueled demon.

[joshcryer]

8. Some of the greatest minds have had substance abuse issues.

It's just how it goes, unfortunately.

Who knows how many of them die before their real talent is known.

At least Hitch got to live and get his ideas out there.

Despite being an Iraq War apologist (later recanting, iirc).

edit: thinking of someone else about Iraq, apparently, can't recall who though.

[JI7]

9. wish he was still around

would have liked to hear his thoughts on so much that has happened. sometimes the foreigners are more interesting to listen to about your own country. although i think he became an american citizen at some point.

[GiaGiovanni]

16. Me too

He just had a way of blowing a hole right through the crap.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. The finest did not fall for fake war bait hook, line and drinker

I have scant respect for the Iraq War cheerleaders. They were very wrong when millions were wiser, they attacked those who opposed the war as disloyal fools when they were war mongering with phantom yellow cake and mushroom clouds. Hitch did more for Bush than Rove did.

[GiaGiovanni]

17. Congress fell for that war

including some of our current progressives. Very few people actually came out against it at the time, including Paul Wellstone.

[Scootaloo]

27. "Fell for?" Are you fucking kidding?

Last edited Sat Jul 27, 2013, 02:58 AM - Edit history (1)

They didn't "fall for" anything, they were not misled, they were not hoodwinked. They were on-board100% and only "recanted" when it became unpopular.

[GiaGiovanni]

29. You don't think some of the Dems were misled?

You think everyone was complicit, except CA Congresswoman Jackson Lee who opposed it?

[Smarmie Doofus]

33. Lots opposed it. 23 US Senators and 133 US Reps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war_resolution

[Scootaloo]

36. Every person who voted in favor of the IWR is complicit, yes.

What, do you think they're all gullible dumbfucks? If so, how is that any better?

[Zen Democrat]

43. Barbara Lee

[Skittles]

56. they did NOT "fall for it"

they knew damn well what was going on but they voted what they PERCEIVED to be their careers over what was best for America - shame on them ALL

[sabrina 1]

46. Couldn't agree more. He was a pseudo intellectual with a massive ego and looked down on most of the

rest of us. He was so completely wrong on the Iraq War and showed no sense of embarrassment when he turned out to be so spectacularly wrong. He continued to support it and showed a degree of bigotry towards Muslims in general, it's hard to understand why any Democrat would find him 'interesting' at all. I generally don't find bigotry to be 'interesting'.

I never understood why Liberals thought so highly of him. When up against some far better actual Liberal minds, he generally got his head handed to him which I witnessed a few times and actually felt sorry for him.

He was right on a few issues, but wrong on some of the most important issues of the past decade.

Not to mention how elitest and obnoxious he was.

[RobinA]

65. I Believe

he was also a purveyor of "Gore is the same as Bush."

[Zorra]

49. Yeh, Hitchens and Sullivan were nauseating with their warmongering neocon cheerleading.

"Hitch did more for Bush than Rove did."

[longship]

18. Loved the Hitch.

My favorite Hitch takedown. The week he began his book tour through the heart of the Bible Belt for the release of God is Not Great Jerry Falwell died. He appeared on multiple media interviews and simply said, "If they had given Jerry Falwell an enema, they could have buried him in a matchbox."

Here:

[GiaGiovanni]

19. I had forgotten his line about Falwell

Hitchens had a way with a phrase.

[longship]

20. His Bible Belt tour was a great thing.

He debated theists at nearly every venue, bringing in throngs of people every time. On more than one occasion he had to book a second debate, for which his opponents gladly agreed. He was greatly respected and spoke of that often.

His last years were very prolific even after he became very ill. He booked speeches and debates until the very end. And of course he wrote.

An amazing person.

[GiaGiovanni]

21. I regret never having seen him live

It must have been amazing to be in the audience

[longship]

22. Many of the debates are available online.

At Common Sense Atheism there's over 600 atheist debates and many with Hitchens from his GING book tour through the Bible Belt. Most are audio, but there are some video as well.



On edit: Oopsie. CSA has closed. The debate archive is still available Here

[GiaGiovanni]

24. Thanks for the link!

I've seen some of the debates on youtube, but it's nice to know there's an archive.

[NoPasaran]

23. Whether one agreed with Hitchens on an issue or not

It was always clear that there was an intellect behind his opinion.

[GiaGiovanni]

25. Yes there was.

It was a refreshing change.

[LittleBlue]

26. “That’s when I began to first find myself on the same side as the neocons.

...I was signing petitions in favour of action in Bosnia, and I would look down the list of names and I kept finding, there’s Richard Perle. There’s Paul Wolfowitz. That seemed interesting to me. These people were saying that we had to act.” He continues, “Before, I had avoided them like the plague, especially because of what they said about General Sharon and about Nicaragua. But nobody could say they were interested in oil in the Balkans, or in strategic needs, and the people who tried to say that – like Chomsky – looked ridiculous. So now I was interested.”

-Christopher Hitchens
Source: http://johannhari.com/2004/09/23/in-enemy-territory-an-interview-with-christopher-hitchens/

I think he had some good opinions mixed with some horrendous errors in judgment.

[defacto7]

28. I'll give you that!

Stunning untiring mind.

[GiaGiovanni]

31. Absolutely

I loved when he was on with Bill Maher. He didn't cut the audience any slack either.

[The Second Stone]

30. Utterly wrong on the substance of the Iraq war

but had a pretty nifty poison pen.

[GiaGiovanni]

32. I wonder how much Rushdie's experience with jihad affected his outlook

I often wonder if that's when Hitch started moving to the right. He became quite anti-Islam.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

34. I just watched great YouTube of his early career

Such as one on William F. Buckley's Firing Line in the mid 80's discussing liberals and Reagan.

He was sharp, and he made you laugh with his witty insults.

[longship]

37. Some Hitchens interviews.

Skeptics Guide to the Universe. Discusses news media. Also, the whole unedited version is available for download as premium content (cheap!) Complete with Hitchens' naughty limericks. (Highly recommended!)

Reasonable Doubts. Features both Christopher and his brother Peter Hitchens. Also available on the RD Web site is video of their debate held in Grand Rapids, MI. (Another great podcast!!)

Just two that I thought Hitch fans might enjoy. From two of my favorite podcasts.

[GiaGiovanni]

39. Great links!

Thanks.

[HipChick]

38. He wouldn't be an Englishman if he didn't have a drink in his hand.

[GiaGiovanni]

40. Stereotyping?

[HipChick]

42. I take it you have never been to England..

[GiaGiovanni]

50. :)

[roamer65]

41. With the revelation from the LBJ library...

...he was "dead-on" correct about Nixon's back channel manipulation of the South Vietnamese to prolong the war.

[sufrommich]

44. Didn't always agree with him but he was

an excellent read,always.

[CTyankee]

45. He was ANTI-CHOICE, folks! Sorry, no applause from me.

And he sounded almost like what he supposedly rejected, the religious right, when he explained his reason for opposing abortion and a woman's right to choose. Said it was not just up to the woman to decide, but "society" too, to great applause from an audience of religious right-wingers...these remarks are on youTube if anyone cares to go there...

[gulliver]

47. He did it his way.

I definitely miss him. Hope he's up there in heaven downing a bottle of Booker's and yakking it up with Aristotle and Hunter Thompson.

[deurbano]

52. Agree...

[RadiationTherapy]

55. A ridiculous and snipey article. Hitchens was an intellectual through and through and it is easy

to see this in his writing and interviews. If he participated in the - very human and common - act of 'gossip' during some of his down time, then so be it. He was no more one-dimensional than any of us. He was eloquent, well-read, and a student of philosophy, literature, and history, yet he communicated his complex ideas in a legible way that many people could understand. One may, obviously, like or dislike the man or his ideas, but to attempt to characterize him as merely a gossipy drinker is either ignorant or being deliberately obtuse.

[RadiationTherapy]

91. You'll have to be more specific than that if you are interested in talking about this.

I have watched dozens and dozens of hours of his interviews, debates, and talking spots. He had many ideas about many things, to state an obvious characteristic of every human ever.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

53. English accent does not equal "intelligent".

Was he a smart guy? sure. Was he as smart as people think he was? no. And he certainly wasn't as smart as he thought he was.


Why I'm not sorry that George W. Bush beat Al Gore and John Kerry.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2009/01/no_regrets.html


Hitchens was a neo-con. There was a reason he was loved by Rush Limbaugh and Michelle Malkin.

[UTUSN]

86. ^Nailed!1^ What he had was a traditional/rigorous education. Even Russell BRAND makes U.S. look dumb

Edited before being called "dumb" my own self: Corrected spelling of "Russel" (after Googling) and leaving the "dumb" in its connotation of "stupid" instead of its meaning of "mute."

[RadiationTherapy]

92. his main criticism in the written piece is that if democrats were in charge after 9/11

waterboarding and wiretapping would become mainstream even faster than under Bush. Recent Obama admin surveillance techniques seem to be proving him correct in at least that regard.

[Comrade Grumpy]

54. He and Cockburn used to make the Nation a joy to read, but he went off the rails after 9/11.

[Demoiselle]

57. I often agreed with him, but

I thought he was a pain in the ass.
To put it as politely as I can.

[LostOne4Ever]

58. Sorry

But his support for the war and other right wing positions did not endear him to me.

[Egnever]

59. Sorry I dont credit any Iraq war cheerleaders with being one of the finest minds

Pat Robertson is a pretty low bar.

[WinkyDink]

60. What he always had, unfortunately, was a cigarette. I adored him and his brilliance, nonetheless!

EVEN THOUGH I disagreed often and sometimes vehemently with his positions on certain subjects (notably Iraq), Hitch's erudition was a thrill to read.

And he was right sexy.

[Nevernose]

74. "How to Make a Decent Cup of Tea"

Is truly a fine piece of writing. As good as the written word gets.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2011/01/how_to_make_a_decent_cup_of_tea.html

[GiaGiovanni]

77. Thanks for the link!

[napoleon_in_rags]

80. The thought police convicted him a long time ago.

Because he spoke in a way that cast the Iraq war as a war of secular forces against religious ones, rather than casting Bush as the mighty fist of the Lord. Such was his view of the issue, which arose out of his own free thought. And his view was unacceptable to those who wished to cast the war (which Americans now regret) as "the will of the Lord, and his instrument, George Bush", for propaganda purposes.

I don't agree with his beliefs either, but he was a free thinker, and definitely became at least an accidental hero to me. He revealed to me the existence of a major group of people who believe "speech ain't so free", who sought to criticize him at every turn at a level far deeper than intellectual disagreement. These haters of the constitution, in their terror would have loved to see him silenced. Myself, as a person who loves the constitution but disagrees with him, would have loved a night of drinks and debate. But not to be: he died way to young.

Rest in Peace Chris, I will remember you as a free-thinker.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

89. Yeah.....no.

The Ba'ath Party was a secular party, Saddam was a secular ruler. The invasion of Iraq wasn't a response to religious extremism and it certainly wasn't "secular vs religious". He was wrong but people ate it up because of his posh accent.

[napoleon_in_rags]

90. I agree he was wrong. I'm just saying he ruffled a lot of feathers deeply.

More than they should have been, after what was at the end of the day just ideas. His ideas were truly provocative, and I remember him positively for that: A lot of the best ideas in the world, evolution, protestantism, ruffled feathers the same way in their time. And provocative ideas get us all thinking.

[MADem]

84. He was very clever, very glib, and very, very mean. Also he was shitfaced more often than not.

I never could understand his visceral hatred of a teenaged girl who married into the British Royal Family, or his vein-popping fury at an old, crabby nun who worked with the poor in India. He used to just LOVE raking those two women over the coals, and he did it with an energy and enthusiasm that he never deployed to take down jerks like Bush or Cheney.

I think he was a miserable person--miserable to others, and miserable when he was all alone, in the wee small hours.

[GiaGiovanni]

85. His argument against Mother Teresa was well founded if you follow her story

The woman was basically used by the Catholic Church as a media figure, PR for the church. I imagine he saw Diana in the same way: she was a media creation to make the house of Hanover (the current royals) look palatable to the world. Fortunately, she grew up, became her own woman, and left.

[malaise]

88. Before or after he supported the illegal invasion of Iraq

Fuck 'em all.