WAKE THE FUCK UP

[Phillyindy]

Last edited Sun Jul 28, 2013, 07:54 PM - Edit history (1)

"Why don't you respect their different perspective on life and try to come to some common ground?"

This was a reply I received on another thread regarding morons who vote against their interests over and over again.

I'm a liberal, and this shit drives me nuts!!!!

You want to know why "liberals lose so God damn always" (to quote Will McAvoy)?

THIS IS WHY.

Liberals constantly make the fatal error of assuming the other side is intelligent and reasonable. That if we are nice and present the data, people will come around.

WHERE THE FUCK HAVE YOU BEEN THE LAST 30 YEARS???????

President Obama, easily one of the most intelligent, reasoned, articulate, honest, well intentioned presidential candidates in our history took this approach...and Sarah FUCKING PALIN's ticket still got 47% of the vote...and that was AFTER Republicans launched an illegal war on lies, sanctioned torture, and created the biggest financial disaster since the GREAT DEPRESSION!

47% people!!! Know what that means? It means that just about half the country, now devastated by 8 years of republican rule, would take Sarah FUCKING Palin rather then a Democrat...even one as amazing as Obama.

It means in 2008, after 8 years of Bush, half the country thought the problem was that our leader wasn't MORE of a right wing ideological nut.

Many of my liberal friends were patting themselves on their back that day. I was naturally thrilled Obama won, but I was also well aware of the fact that instead of what should have been a landslide...he could have easily lost.

And for me, that brought a horrifying realization that our country was even more insanely misinformed and fucked then I thought.

Obama also took this typical liberal "kill them with kindness" and "compromise" approach with governing...how's that worked out for progressive legislation, for the progressive movement as a whole?

Let's see, Obama's only signature piece of legislation is a right wing Heritage Foundation healthcare plan that is a giant handout to big pharma and insurance agencies.

Meanwhile, we've had draconian cuts to everything from education to life saving social programs for the poor and elderly.

We've bailed out Wall Street and the banks, but told homeowners, the unemployed, students, the needy, and even entire cities like Detriot to go fuck themselves sideways.

We've had a continuation (even an expansion) of Bush national security policies and right wing economic policies.

More free trade policies, more corporate welfare, and the continued assault on the middle class, the poor, and our social contract.

Yet do you see mass protests in the streets? Rioting? Are the Republicans facing backlash? Do most people even know what's causing all of this or who's responsible?

Nope.

In fact, Nate Silver is now saying there is a 50% chance Republicans will take the Senate in 2016...and no chance they will lose the house.

Deny it all you want, but it's perfectly theoretical that Republicans could own the entire government come January 2017.

The fact that this is even plausible right now, let alone a real possibility, should serve as a splash of ice water in the face of liberals.

What you are doing ISN'T working!

It's time to wake the fuck up and realize that this noble, above it all approach of messaging HAS BEEN FAILING MISERABLY FOR 30 FUCKING YEARS...to the point where the oligarchy now has so much power that it may now be irreversible.

By now everyone should know that Americans are largely simple, ignorant, fearful folk. They trust the confident assuredness of a leader above things like facts. Like Bush, "Wrong but strong".

You want to make Americans understand and come around to your side? Then quit acting like fucking pussies sitting in a circle on the grass at your college quad!

Stand up and denounce the other side for the sick twisted fascist pukes that they are.

STOP acting like there are 2 sides to common decency, to moral truths, to policies that serve only the purpose of enslaving the citizens while empowering the ruling elite.

CALL PEOPLE THE FUCK OUT in every setting, in every situation. Minimize them, make them a mockery, paint them as immoral parasites.

I don't care if it's you kids teacher, your priest, or your fucking dying Aunt.

When possible, do so politely, if thats not possible, then FUCK THEM.

Think this is harsh? Well you ever wonder why social issues like gay marriage and discrimination are the ONE area where liberals win CONSISTENTLY?

Because they use this tactic!!!! Because they shame people into doing the right thing. They make it socially UNACCEPTABLE to not agree.

This is why those issues drive conservatives nuts more then anything - because that's THEIR tactic!

To question capitalism means you are a commie pinko. To question a war means you don't support the troops. To question torture means you are a terrorist lover. Conservatives have mastered the tactic of forced conformity.

So sorry for the rant, but I've fucking had it. This isn't 1970, where the other side is made up of at least some intelligent, well meaning people with legitimate alternative views and we all agree on the basic principles of America.

THIS IS A FUCKING WAR against a soulless, immoral, ruthless oligarchy hell bent on permanently enslaving the people of this country...and they are winning, they are kicking our asses into oblivion.

Liberals are the only reason America became the great shining beacon of hope and justice and equality and prosperity for all that it once was.

Well it's time for liberals to get dirty again, or you can kiss this country goodbye.

America isn't the last great hope for the world...liberals are.

[Jackpine Radical]

1. Nice rant.

I could find points to quibble with, but, overall, nice rant.

[RebelOne]

59. Nice rant, but let's cut out the "F" word. I am so sick of it. n/t

[Apophis]

72. The OP is clearly pissed off.

Who the fuck cares if he uses profanity?

[SylviaD]

73. I agree. Profanity is detrimental to any well-reasoned argument, including this one. n/t

[sweetapogee]

85. i would like to know

what f***ing college this dude got his communications degree from.

[DonCoquixote]

90. acutally, you proved the op's point

The Right wing will say the f word, and anything else, to make their point, whereas we seem more concerned with being proper. That is why we have been bringing knives to a gunfight for 30 years.

[tex-wyo-dem]

115. ^^^ This ^^^

Spot on!

Just underscores the OP's points exactly.

[Mojorabbit]

116. Yes it does. nt

[Paladin]

128. +1000.

The right wing ditched any notions of proper conduct ages ago. If you're going to whine about profanity, you deserve the ass-kickings you get.

[maddiemom]

141. Very good use of a popular expression in regard to liberal arguments!

[RoccoR5955]

158. Knives? We have been bringing...

sticks to a nuclear bomb fight, afaic.
When the fuck ARE people going to wake up? Probably after it's too late, is my guess.

[LanternWaste]

163. I don't think that allowing civility its due denies or improves success to either party.

I don't think that allowing civility its due denies or improves success to either party. But then again, I'm not trying to rationalize anything...

[Major Nikon]

107. Freeperville bans profanity and it doesn't seem to help them much

Just sayin'

[AlbertCat]

150. Are people who swear more honest?

"Swearing can occur with any emotion and yield positive or negative outcomes. Our work so far suggests that most uses of swear words are not problematic. We know this because we have recorded over 10,000 episodes of public swearing by children and adults, and rarely have we witnessed negative consequences. We have never seen public swearing lead to physical violence. Most public uses of taboo words are not in anger; they are innocuous or produce positive consequences (e.g., humor elicitation). No descriptive data are available about swearing in private settings, however, so more work needs to be done in that area.

Therefore, instead of thinking of swearing as uniformly harmful or morally wrong, more meaningful information about swearing can be obtained by asking what communication goals swearing achieves. Swear words can achieve a number of outcomes, as when used positively for joking or storytelling, stress management, fitting in with the crowd, or as a substitute for physical aggression. Recent work by Stephens et al. even shows that swearing is associated with enhanced pain tolerance. This finding suggests swearing has a cathartic effect, which many of us may have personally experienced in frustration or in response to pain. Despite this empirical evidence, the positive consequences of swearing are commonly disregarded in the media. Here is an opportunity for psychological scientists to help inform the media and policymakers by clearly describing the range of outcomes of swearing, including the benefits."

http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/publications/observer/2012/may-june-12/the-science-of-swearing.html

[world wide wally]

74. Actually, the "Fuck" word is very effective at expressing emotion

[adieu]

105. We don't hear enough of it

If a comment isn't laced with "fuck" every other word, I'm not convinced of the person's sincerity. Good rant, OP

[mattclearing]

121. Some rebel. n/t

[TBF]

131. And that is the reason we are losing -

folks like you who place form above substance. There should be a lot more cursing going on.

Appeals to "play nice" and "not use bad language" are just ploys of the status quo to push everyone into line. Fuck that.

[kardonb]

68. rant

it would be even better without the eternal F-word . It IS possible to express yourself without using banal scat-words. English is such a rich language , learn to use it !

[Phillyindy]

71. Profanity is almost as annoying as....

...people who post their comment as a reply to the 1st comment on the thread so it's above all the people who posted before them. Pretty rude and ill-mannered.

[kentuck]

76. OMG! It's the English teacher!

She has followed us to DU!

[tavalon]

92. LOL duzy

[busterbrown]

110. I can not believe we are discussing the pros and cons of the word Fuck...

The issues in which the thread is centered around is a big problem.

The fact is that Obama has been held hostage by a group of lunatics who would love him to get angry and fight back..There is no winning if he does... Obama plays to the millions who decide elections..the all important voter in the middle who is looking for the adult in the room..

Because of the redistricting and gerrymandering, we have a real problem.. The Red States will never
or for at least a long time change their fanatic elected reps.
That leaves Obama in a place in which if he is too aggressive nothing at all would pass. At least he has initiated the beginning of a decent healthcare system, a huge bump for the LGBT community, Consumer Protection Agency with Warren, and a few other good pieces of Legislation.

He is not Roosevelt, he is a Black President who is absolutely hated by 30% of the country which controls the House..

So when the Presidents backs down, I feel its for a reason and one day we will find out exactly why he chose the strategy which the poster strongly disagreed with..

[L0oniX]

149. ALERTING FOR USING THE WORD "FUCK"! Fuckers using the word fuck is fucking fucked. FFS.

George Carlin says it better than I...

[kentuck]

2. kick

For an excellent rant. On target.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

3. In general, I agree. real Democracy of the people is hard work

Most Americans don't have the stomach for it. Just grab the TV dinner and flip on an episode of Glee. ahhhh...bathed in the pale blue light of passive acceptance.

[Brigid]

4. Don't be sorry.

This is a definite must read.

[Phillyindy]

8. Thanks :)

[PowerToThePeople]

5. denounce the other side for the sick twisted fascist pukes that they are

This I can do =)

[RC]

78. No one has to go very far.

They infect DU mightily.

[JaneyVee]

6. I like you.

[Fumesucker]

7. Be careful what you wish for

[railsback]

9. Its kinda hard now

The Right is using the Left's talking points to attack the big, bad government, and the Left has no one to blame but themselves. Can't make big changes in government if the Left keeps the Right intrenched in Congress. The GOP has been gifted at least another decade to rape and pillage the land.

[nashville_brook]

27. "calling out bullshit" per the OP, right here -- the right is not using "the left's" talking points.

this is a form of left-shaming. Movement liberals have principles that we must stand by no matter what. otherwise, they're not principles. they're talking points.

our principles include:
free and open democracy
individual privacy
healthy safety nets
living wages
fighting economic inequality and injustice
protecting women's reproductive health
promoting a just society for people of all colors
empowering individuals over corporations.

just to name a few.

this post invokes a nasty form of shaming in that "the left" is being asked "to tone it down." quit being so "lefty," b/c you're ruining it for everyone else. this post above invokes the myth that Dems lose when they listen to their base, and nothing could be farther from the truth.

[kentuck]

28. We're not doing a very good job, are we?

"our principles include:
free and open democracy
individual privacy
healthy safety nets
living wages
fighting economic inequality and injustice
protecting women's reproductive health
promoting a just society for people of all colors
empowering individuals over corporations."

[nashville_brook]

31. i think that's why a lot of us are here...to crowdsource how to do a better job

there's an amazing amount of productive discussion amidst the noise. and there's a lot of opportunity to get involved in some of these fights on the ground.

something i find amazing about the free/open/private principles, are that these actually can be addressed with online work. "online" is the domain of these issues. so it's very important that people stay informed and keep moving the ball down the field.

the other issues do take more in-person engagement. no time like August to take in a few local Town Halls!

[AlbertCat]

152. We did an excellent job!

Until the Reagan "Greed is good" meme.

We became complacent we did such a good job! That let the greed-mongers in.

[railsback]

30. Ah, you assume our electorate is detail oriented

completely involved in current events. Haven't you ever seen those late night shows, when people like Leno go out on the streets and ask common folk simple, current event questions? THAT is our electorate. So you can bang the drums of righteousness and liberalism all you want, of how people should actually think, but that doesn't mean ANYTHING and won't produce the results you want. The only thing that's going to do is keep the GOP occupying seats in Congress. So, really, is standing up for your principles, when it ends up harming MILLIONS of Americans, really standing up for your principles, or is it, in actuality, Libertarianism at its extreme, as in 'ME'...

[nashville_brook]

32. "So you can bang the drums of righteousness and liberalism all you want" -- seriously?

What part of being a democrat are you talking about here? Go thru my list. Tell me which of those principles are inconsistent with your vision of the Democratic party.

[railsback]

69. Yeah, SERIOUSLY

What, you think your way is going to work, complaining that the NSA MIGHT BE spying on your porn activity, allowing the GOP to piggyback on the faux outrage? My Gawd, its like NO ONE here has paid attention to GOP tactics. THAT'S why they STILL walk the halls of Congress. THAT'S why they'll most likely take the Senate in 2014, making a bad situation WORSE, because of 'righteousness'. Truly hypocritical, seeing how the Left wants everything NOW, but is willing to 'stand on their principles', even if that means giving up control to a bunch of seriously f*cked up people, who could care less if you are lying in a ditch, bleeding to death.

I understand the sentiment. Really. But its seriously unrealistic at this point.

[nashville_brook]

86. if you think that allowing spying on Americans = #winning

or that attempting to fix that problem would somehow weaken the party, then your cynicism might be getting the better of you.

it's a winning issue. it's principled. and it's urgent that we fix this.

i'm sorry your fear of the political system has led you to this miscalculation with regard to its strategic value of upholding our right to privacy. truly.

[railsback]

175. The burden of proof is upon you

You can't just say its happening because someone said it COULD be happening because they have the tools to make it happen, and then expect everyone to agree. That's ludicrous.

[sabrina 1]

171. The NSA IS spying on the American people, and guess what, for the first time in memory, Republicans

are working WITH Democrats to end these egregious Bush policies. This is the moment Obama was waiting for. The moment when Republicans are on board with Democrats to finally address the stain on this democracy, curtesy of Bush, the Surveillance Policies.

Let's see if our President seizes this moment.

[railsback]

174. NSA is going to spy

That's what they do. You have NO idea who they're spying on, so speculating the worst is just that; speculation.

[sabrina 1]

178. I do know who they are spying on. They are spying on ME. And I want to know why.

[snappyturtle]

177. You know I think if the President wanted to seize the moment he

missed it in not supporting the Amash/Conyers amendment. imho

[kentuck]

38. Yes.

What are your solutions. I dare you to tell.

[railsback]

66. HaHaHaHaHaHa! A detail oriented electorate! Good one.

I've been telling you all the solution: Get the GOP out of Congress, so the Left doesn't have to do these stupid dances on a razor thin fence. You want change, then stop pissing in the wind.

[kentuck]

77. Ok. I jumped off the razor thin fence and my pecker is out of the wind...

What are your solutions?

[nashville_brook]

44. still waiting for your list :)

the inconsistencies...remember?

[railsback]

63. My list of inconsistencies?

Did I make the accusations? Greenwald has done nothing but 'assume'. Yes, 'could' 'maybe' 'might'… Where are the consistencies? Show me the laws broken - Show anywhere where laws have been broken, or rights violated, according to our current laws.. The Left just assumes these are the cases, and the Right, rightly so, because who would be stupid enough to look a gift horse in the mouth, jumps right on board. So now the Left's arguments are undercut by their own selves.

[kentuck]

83. Put another worm on the hook.

I think we have another one?

[AlbertCat]

153. Haven't you ever seen those late night shows, when people like Leno go out on the streets ...

... and ask common folk simple, current event questions?

And then edit them so only the dumbest, funniest answers get aired?



But of course...most people are just living their lives. Liberal ideas actually make that easier! But the current generation seems to think "the weekend" and "overtime" and safe food and so forth just appeared on its own.... or have always been around.

[mick063]

35. This post is righteous nashville_brook

You "get it"

I'm right there with ya.

Act like Republicans and the Libertarians steal an entire generation from the Democratic Party. It is happening as we speak. It is why people here are increasingly referencing Rand Paul. They fear him and rightfully so. The youth fear for their future and Democrats are not delivering on what Democrats say they can deliver because entrenched Democrats believe that moving to the right will lure independents. As a result, a whole generation is seeking a different path.

[nashville_brook]

42. nobody wants New Coke.

[DirkGently]

51. Dead-on. Have to question where someone is coming from when they

equate principles of the "Left" with "talking points" of the Right.

[GoneFishin]

104. +1000. Triangulating is a bullshit sellout. The corporatists are the ones responsible for the Dem

losses. If the party were loyal to the core party principles we would be kicking the Republicans asses. But too often undecided voters have to choose between Republican or Republican Lite.

[Mojorabbit]

117. Thank you! nt

[Rosa Luxemburg]

101. Most important to get rid of Republicans in the house in 2014

[kentuck]

10. It is up to the liberals.

And it is the liberals fault for going along with those in the Party that said "winning" the next election was always more important than what liberals thought. It would have been better to have lost the election in 1992 and in 2008 if it had helped to build a progressive agenda. We have not moved the country, as a whole, forward, even though we have made progress in some areas. We have lost ground overall, in my opinion.

[NRaleighLiberal]

11. Exactly! a fantastic, spot on rant.

[IrishAyes]

12. I've denounced conservatism plenty

and believe they're pushing us toward a violent revolution which nobody will be able to control. Once that explodes, it's anybody's guess what will result. But we should remember the old saw, "Revolution always eats its children."

[Vietnameravet]

13. in the end people get what they deserve ,,

Seems to me there is absolutely nothing Repubs can say or do to alienate a very large section of this country,,.and a very large section of this country is just plain stupid and racist...

[Rosa Luxemburg]

108. Bigots

[HardTimes99]

134. My wife and I were having this very discussion last night. I found myself reminiscing about

the 1980 race between Reagan and Carter. (Wife was 15 in 1980.) That the people gave that election to that abomination Reagan tells me the American people deserve the fucking they are getting now in a way few people in history have ever deserved to be fucked. Carter may not have been without flaws, but compared to Reagan, he comes across as a choir boy.

I'm a Democratic Socialist and I'm never supposed to say that 'people (workers) get what they deserve.' But in this one historical instance, I think America deserves what it's getting for electing and re-electing Reagan. There was a huge karmic debt to be paid and it took awhile but that debt is now being paid back with interest.

[maddiemom]

144. Carter was the closest thing to a "choir boy" that we've ever had as President.

That the ridiculous Reagan is still the Republican icon speaks perfectly for the Republican party today. My late father-in -law, a strong, liberal union man seemed not to notice that little thing with the air traffic controllers (admittedly many in labor unions seem not to identify with the more white collar unions. Strong UMWA parents in our local school districts routinely crossed striking teacher picket lines to bring their kids to school, if the buses weren't running in support), but was the same age as Reagan and thought he was very cool(for want of a better word for his generation). I don't know if he went so far as to vote for Reagan, but if he did, it would have been his one and only Republican vote. Eisenhower was the last really good Republican president. Follow him up with Nixon in terms of accomplishments in office, despite Nixon's obvious dishonesty on the political side. The harm Reagan (or his handlers) did, will probably be known in history as the beginning of the "fall" of this nation along with the decision of the Republicans to go completely political and obstructionist, rather than serves as "the loyal opposition."

[HardTimes99]

148. Were it not for Manzanar, FDR would qualify for 'choir boy' in my book too. Even so, FDR

comes pretty damned close (about as close as Jimmy Carter).

FWIW, your father-in-law was not that unusual. IIRC, the fucking Teamsters endorsed Reagan in both 1980 and 1984, to their eternal shame. And the AFL-CIO? Don't even get me started on how it sold out PATCO (while paying lip service to its claims).

People forget that when Reagan was California governor, he warned UC students there would be 'blood in the streets' if they continued to protest against the Vietnam War. After Kent State, though, Reagan closed all UC campuses for the remainder of 1970. IOW, Reagan was all talk and no action. Moral of the story: had the AFL-CIO called a 'general strike,' Reagan would have backed down.

Ancient history now, I suppose. But I date the beginning of the end to a cold day in January 1981.

[maddiemom]

166. But, WAIT! All Reagan had to do was say, "Mr. Gorbache tear down this wall,"v,

and voila!

[crim son]

14. This is brilliant.

Would you allow me to post the link on my FB page?

[Phillyindy]

16. You kidding? Put it on a billboard!!! :)

[kentuck]

18. The Liberal Manifesto

[ErikJ]

15. The Republicans caused the 2 worst economic crises in US history.

Last edited Mon Jul 29, 2013, 12:31 AM - Edit history (1)

The Republicans completely controlled the govt from 1920 to 1932 resulting in the Great Depression and from 2001 to 2007 resulting in the 2008 Great Recession, the 2 worst economic crises of US history.
And it took the Democrats to rescue us both times. Who ya gonna vote for chumps?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

102. THe 3rd economic crisis started under Bush jr.

[HardTimes99]

135. Don't forget the Reagan Recession (1981-83). Adult unemployment crested at

12% nationally in 1982. Grim times indeed, now often forgotten.

[Mr.Bill]

17. It's worse than you think.

Forget Sarah Palin, they would vote for Ted Nugent.

Oh, wait, it's worse than that. They would vote for George Zimmerman.

[awoke_in_2003]

43. Or Manson, if they could. nt

[HardTimes99]

136. What they really want is Hitler, v. 2.0. (Sound the Godwin alarm! :) - nt

[COLGATE4]

19. K&R X100

[brush]

20. You are absolutely right

Being too nice is killing us. Trickle down — Reagan/Jack Kemp — has had a 30+ year reign and it has failed miserably but you wouldn't know by the repukes and bluedogs. Hell, you wouldn't know by the patty cake efforts waged against it by liberals.

Let's get down and dirty and call their asses out on every issue. We'll see then if the average American just needs a reality check of truth to power or is just, frankly, too stupid to grasp that the reality of being screwed without lube.

[bluestate10]

46. We have national health care, more rights for gays, a budding Moderate-Progressive

electoral majority. We have forced republicans into a corner where they are doing such crazy shit stuff in states that they control that they have no hopes of being a national party moving forward and will even lose many of the states that they control within a decade. I disagree with you. We are WINNING. Our biggest enemy is us and our tendency to in-fight instead of focus on a common enemy.

[brush]

79. Of course some things have been accomplished

but look what hasn't by coddling obstructionist repugs. The OP is right in my opinion.

[RC]

80. National health care? How about Universal Health Care instead?

We are losing the states, two, three, four at a time. Without control of the states we have no hope of getting control of our federal government back.

[Stryder]

21. Well don't sugar coat it,

Tell us what you really think.
Sorry couldn't resist. But yeah and hells yeah. Just happens I've a brother in from Texas of all places who I see every 3 or 4 years. Last time he was up he seemed to be turning towards the light side. But now he's right back at it. Any fact I throw at him is countered by some Fox news BS talking point. All other facts are some sort of liberal media (hah) propaganda,end of debate. Mind you this is an otherwise intelligent person,advanced high school math instructor. When Bill O's opinion trumps any fact, we have little hope of coming to any reasonable consensus. And this is not some knuckle dragging stranger. We Are Fucked.

[bluestate10]

41. Amazing how a person who is dependent on a government job can become anti-government.

Keep hitting your brother with facts. Hopefully he has children who are reaching their teens, maybe they will influence him for the better.

[pasto76]

22. so your solution is to become just like them, and shove it down their throats

how evolved of you.

I especially like how your sole advice on dealing with people is to mock, minimize and embarrass them. not educate them. never mind killing them with facts and irrefutable truths. never mind getting on the airwaves and hammering them on every stupid thing they do.

our politicians on the left will NEVER do this the way you want them to, because you 'liberal' segment of the seems to love nothing more than to bash every non-liberal democrat out there, including the president. Maybe you've missed the last 5 years, but everytime the liberals start screaming about how 'obama is betraying us', they latch onto that and use it to their advantage.

your analogy to war is offensive, speaking as a war veteran.

[bluestate10]

39. Many people on the Left are sane. It is the far Left that appears to be unbalanced.

Unfortunately, many of the most prevalent Left posters on DU appear to be of the second strain. Look, Moderate-Liberal, and Moderate voters dominate the electorate. As long as we show up in numbers, no one else wins. We are the majority, although a somewhat disinterested one most of the time. The far Left and far right have passion, if not commonsense, that is the only thing that distinguish the two groups. Live well and calm, you are in the majority of grounded voters. We are changing the nation for the better, we got health care reform, gay rights, more economic rights for women. We still have battles to win and must stop backsliding in states that republicans control - but we have made remarkable progressive. Maybe we should call ourselves "Progressives" because we have accomplished more that the people that passionately claim that label have and we have accomplished those changes in far less time.

[mick063]

47. "Remarkable progress"

Are you kidding me?

At what?

Turning the Democratic party into Reagan's platform?

[kentuck]

53. That is debatable, isn't it?

Remarkable?

[PowerToThePeople]

50. uhm..

Last edited Sun Jul 28, 2013, 10:47 PM - Edit history (1)

All of these progresses you state had very passionate people pushing them for years and years. The people working for them were not calm and moderate. They were very active and likely much further "left" than your ideal establishment democrat.

[kentuck]

55. Right on!

What a misguided notion that the left had nothing to do with pushing gay rights - it was only those rational, moderate, pragmatic, DLC-type Democrats. Smells like a load of horseshit to me.

[GeorgeGist]

89. The leading from behind crowd is here to take credit.

There's Nothing in the Middle of the Road but Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos. http://www.amazon.com/Theres-Nothing-Middle-Stripes-Armadillos/dp/0060929499

[wildbilln864]

23. k & freakin r! eom!

[cantbeserious]

24. Liberals Yes - DLC Democrats No

eom

[Egalitarian Thug]

25. Reminds me of where I was twenty-some years ago. Please be so kind as to define liberal.

There's a reason I do not self define a liberal or progressive, but choose egalitarian.

[tom_kelly]

34. I like that!

[NoOneMan]

26. Noted. Im going back to bed

[Arkansas Granny]

29. Great rant. K&R.

[bluestate10]

33. You want Democrats to beat republicans bloody at the polls and with policy?

I agree 100%. But we aren't going to get that as long as some of us insist that casting incredibly bad and childish votes represents voting for one's principles. We as a party need to remain disciplined for the next 6-10 election cycles and govern well. Once we have eliminated republicans, we can settle our difference with each other and form to large parties that will compete to lead the country sanely.

[Arctic Dave]

36. I was reluctant to click on this but I'm glad I did.

Love it.

I am so tired of the, "above it all" high mindedness of "our" party. FUCK THAT!

Take off the gloves, put on your boots and start to kick the shit out of them at every turn.

[mtasselin]

37. excelant

Could not have said it better, unfortunately this is so common I can't stand it. I say this to my liberal friends and they think I'm nuts and who knows maybe I am. We must stop playing nice with these worthless assholes.

[agent46]

40. Agreed...except

I don't see gay marriage as any kind of a liberal victory at this point. Gay marriage came through like tossing a bone to the dog. It's legislation that doesn't impact the corporatist bottom line in any way and in fact helps polarize the already fearfully brainwashed against the great "Liberal scourge."

I'm glad gay people can get married legally now. It should have never been an issue to begin with but as far as capitalism is concerned, gay consumers are just another marketing niche. It helps business to legitimize them and even use them in advertising.

[Divernan]

100. I absolutely agree - as a demographic, gays have high levels of disposable income.

And there are no bribes/campaign "donations" going to any politicians from any of the various Big Money corporate/special interest lobbyists to oppose gay marriage. Being gay friendly is good for business, so it was a win-win, no-brainer for Obama to support it.

[Starry Messenger]

122. Gay people can be fired for being gay in several states.

If capitalism were indifferent to LGBT, they wouldn't have this special penalty as workers hanging over them. If you are anti-capitalist, please support LGBT rights. Many LGBT leftists can't work openly as activists because of threats of being outed and fired.

[dreamnightwind]

167. There is some truth to your point (but)

in that people lived in fear of being outed, but the poster you are responded to made a really excellent point. It's great that gays can now be married and no longer have to live under that fear, but that reform (still in progress) is one that TPTB can toss us as a bone. It cost them nothing. No threat whatsoever to the corporate bottom line, which is the elephant in the room that the OP mostly ignored and dictates the decisions of both parties.

The gay issue is very effective at keeping left and right divided, which greatly pleases the oligarchs, they hide behind the curtain counting their profits while the proletariat argues about gays and guns and god and abortions. And that's why we are really losing, we're fighting each other, far left vs. moderate left, Dem vs. Republican, Dem vs. libertarian, whatever, instead of fighting the people behind the scenes, the big money capitalists who are actually running both major parties, and most of the world.

When we win a concession from power that actually results in more of the pie going to the people and less of the pie to the corporations, we'll know we're getting somewhere.

[Starry Messenger]

169. I just think that line of argument minimizes the LGBT struggle.

I can't agree. I'm not gay, but I have progressive gay friends who sometimes feel alienated from anti-capitalist organizations because of this line of argument. I feel the same way when left-wing people say abortion rights are "just a wedge". If the right-wing capitalists truly felt these issues were not important, they wouldn't pour so much money into fighting against them.

[agent46]

170. I don't think it minimizes

I don't think this line of reasoning diminishes the struggle for equal rights. Maybe I should have inserted a sentence or two in my post to acknowledge the very real pain that generations of GLBT people have endured in the shadow of societal ignorance and institutionalized prejudice. It is the same anguish endured by other minorities under the yoke of unequal power.

My point was really to frame it from the corporatist (fascist) point of view - which is the engine of power at this point in American politics.

[elehhhhna]

45. Huge error in your thesis here -

no f'ing way 47% voted repub.

It's the vapor ballots. End THAT, unfuck the gerrymandering, and we will have a chance. Otherwise just give up now.

[bluestate10]

52. The only way to defeat republican gerrymandering is to get as many people that are

on our side as possible voting. When our side vote, republicans lose in every place except deep blood red districts and states. The number of deep red districts are decreasing while the number of purple districts are increasing. Our side can win in purple districts, we may have a candidate that some dismiss, but my claim is that person will be infinitely better legislating than a republican would be. Part of our side need to give up the destructive practice of attacking members of our side who don't meet our self imposed purity tests, but who are true democrats at heart and in practice.

[elehhhhna]

94. perhaps some dem leadership that acts like dems would inspire more to vote?

we need 5 times the 'pube turnout to overcome the gerrymandering and vote supression

[Rosa Luxemburg]

109. yes

[OnyxCollie]

96. One of the four guys who wrote the law that gave us "vapor ballots"

is now the Secretary of Defense.

The NSA operates under his purview.

[kentuck]

48. It's a propaganda war and we are losing it...

Why?

Because we want to play nice and fair and expect the people to choose us for those reasons. The only problem is: it doesn't work.

In a propaganda war, when someone lies or offends your side, you hit them back. You embarrass them. You humiliate them. You call them on their lies over and over until they feel it. Did you know Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot? George W Bush and Dick Cheney are war criminals. FOX News is an arm of the Republican Party. Thousands died in a war in Iraq because of a lie. Etc..etc...

[bluestate10]

54. Yes Kentuck. Democrats actually believe in democracy and when given the chance to lead,

actually lead in a democratic way. I don't want anything else. The way to defeat republicans is to vote. When Progressive and Moderate people show up at the polls, republicans lose elections - republicans know that, that is why they are so hot to impose draconian voter suppression laws.

Democrats need to take off the gloves and call out republican bullshit, but our side doesn't have to fight dirty.

[kentuck]

62. Not dirty if it is the hard truth.

Not soft bi-partisan bs.

[heaven05]

49. 47%

I been sayin it, I been sayin it. GREAT PERSPECTIVE on the american electorate.

[bluestate10]

56. That 47% is from a group that is a declining part of the electorate.

Republicans are in a pickle, if that party continues to rely on that 47%, it will continue to lose national elections and start to lose starts that are now red. Texas and Arizona are on the verge of becoming blue states. Georgia, believe it or not, may either beat them there or not be far behind.

[SammyWinstonJack]

57. YEAH!

[sabrina 1]

58. Liberals are not the ones willing to always compromise, it is the presence of the Third Way

in our party that is responsible for that.

Liberals are tough, willing to fight, hard, for what they believe, but they are being overrun by the infiltrators and enablers of infiltrators, in the Dem Party.

Obama doesn't fight, he compromises, he has boasted about doing so.

I want a leader who FIGHTS, we are sick of the excuses, and that's all they are at this point.

[countmyvote4real]

60. Nicely done. n/t

[Chaco Dundee]

61. great view and well said

There will be no changes to the good until they get prossecuted for their crimes and harshley sentencd

[Martin Eden]

64. How does this equate to winning elections?

Obviously, we're not going to convert people we call "sick twisted fascist pukes."

It might fire up the liberal base and get them to the voting booth, which would help.

If we are relentless in calling bullshit bullshit, some folks in the middle might finally start to smell it.

Basically, if we loudly call things what they are and don't give up insisting on calling things what they really are, maybe it will start to WAKE UP a voting public that has been enabling the sick twisted fascist pukes who are destroying our country.

[samplegirl]

65. Bravo!!!!

Love the last sentance...

AMERICA ISN"T THE LAST GREAT HOPE FOR THE WORLD
LIBERALS ARE!!!

[hue]

67. Thanks for posting!! The Repukes count on us being nice-->it works for them....

[bvar22]

70. Want to GOTV and make people HAPPY to push that "Democrat" button?

I don't think that many are going to buy into a lot of promises for "change" again from some unknown.
THAT one is ALL Used Up.
There is going to have to be a SOLID track record of STANDING UP for the Working Class, Social Security, and Organized LABOR that our candidates can run on.
Actual VIDEO of Standing UP to Wall Street and the 1% will be a huge PLUS to regain TRUST again.

Running a whole campaign on "We're not as BAD as the other guy"
doesn't motivate most American voters to Get. To. The. Fucking. Poll. and. VOTE!!!
QED:2010

And to the Democratic Party Leadership, I have only this to say;
Give Them SOMETHING REAL so that they WILL Get. To. The. Fucking. Poll. and. VOTE!!!


This Guy KNOWS what WORKS!

[font size=3]
"I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the Fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign."
---President Harry Truman

QED:2010[/font]


[font size=3]Leadership! "The Buck Stops HERE!" NO Excuses![/font]


There is a REAL possibility that the Republicans will walk out of 2016 with EVERYTHING.
A whole lot is riding on how difficult it is going to be to force 50 Million Americans to BUY "Bronze" Health Insurance they don't think they NEED,
or can't afford to use.

The best estimates are that somewhere between 40 Million and 70MILLION Americans will be without Insurance by 2014.
Some of them will be eligible for Medicaid,
but the rest will be forced onto The Exchanges.
We will see, but that is an awfully BIG demographic to Piss Off if this doesn't go smoothly.

[AlinPA]

75. Great.

[Duval]

81. We need to fix THE DAMN MEDIA!!

Only a very few journalists ask the right questions, and when they do, very few papers print it. Only on Free Speech TV do we get the straight truth, except perhaps for Lawrence O'Donnell, Maddow, and Schultz. Comedy Central does a super job with satire, and also provides a bit of comic relief. Too many papers are owned by the idiot the UK threw out, Rupert Murdock. Too many supposedly intelligent people listen and believe talk show hosts on Fox news and other radio stations, and my son is one of them. I'm past retirement age, and never would I have thought that the USA would buy into the far right BS. It is chilling.

[TomClash]

82. We will resist and we will find a way to vote . . .

[SHRED]

84. k and r

[Ken Burch]

87. Agree with the sentiment...

...but how do you know "the fuck" is sleeping?

[dreamnightwind]

172. Be a lert

We need more of them.

[Javaman]

88. Brilliant rant...

I used to rant like this, but sadly, my blood pressure couldn't take it anymore.

I'm glad someone carries on the torch.

Cheers!

[Mojo Electro]

91. I absolutely agree!!!

I'm sick of the "reach across the aisle" middle-ground diplomacy where nobody is willing to stand up. When the tables are turned, these people crush the opposition without a care in the world. We need a democrat who is willing to stand against the republicans... stand against... *stand against* ... not reach across the aisle and try to find common ground... there is what is right, and there is what is wrong... and I don't see why what is right should have to reach out and cater to what is clearly wrong.

Sorry for the crude reference, but is there one decent pair of testicles in the entire democratic party?

[Doctor_J]

93. for most there aren't any liberals to vote for

The best we can do is a dino like the president. Yours is an excellent rant but doesn't really contain a plan of action. The reason that progress was made on gay marriage is that Rove decided he needs those voters so he told his propaganda organs to change their tune, and his scotus hacks to bless it.

Rec

[Scuba]

95. Great post Phillyindy, thanks for taking the time to write it, and please ignore all the ....

... language critics and nitpickers that would try to divert attention from your many salient points.

Again, thanks, and welcome to DU. We need more posters like you.

[LevelB]

97. I'm with the OP:

I work for EPA, and am floored by the number of hard line conservatives. Just amazes me.

[edbermac]

98. "Isn't that just like a liberal? Brings a knife to a gun fight."

Time to stop playing Mr Nice Guy and start kicking Republican ass.

[NuttyFluffers]

99. crucial lesson here: not all opinions are made equal

listening to the criminally evil, insane, or negligent is a waste of time, especially as they are easy to suss out and make no effort at understanding others.

[MannyGoldstein]

103. + a lot

Dead on.

[liberal_at_heart]

106. It wasn't pretty the first time the labor movement took power away from the rich. It won't be pretty

this time either, but you are right. We must fight or we will be lost for countless years. We already have been lost for countless years, ever since trickle down was introduced.

[deutsey]

130. A lot of people have forgotten or never knew that part of our history

Workers had their heads cracked and were even massacred by company goons and state militias for organizing.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

111. Most are consumed by their daily life instead of being politically active

so may times people say I'm too busy to fight the fight. Republicans seem to find time.

[StevePaulson]

112. Republicans Are A Disease

I became as fed up as Phillyindi a few years ago, and started a new blob. Mostly my writing. Same mo.

http://www.RepublicansAreADisease.com

Republicans are a disease for all of the above reasons.

And I don't give whining, cowardly, pussified Democrats a break either.
They absolutely don't fight hard enough.

When Rush called me a traitor because I didn't think we should be torturing people, I just couldn't stand it any more.

If you see my car driving down the highway, read the

"Republicans
Are A
Disease"

sign in the back window.

I am not gonna sit by and take it.

I live in their face.

One of my favorite things to do is ask someone in the grocery line if they heard about
the latest thing Republican scumbags did. If they say no, I go ahead and tell the whole
line very loudly about the latest abuse.

In the store the other day I got a scowl when I was talking to a friend of mine about the
fact the Republicans want all abortions done with coat hangers....

You get my drift.....

[sabrina 1]

113. And stop appointing Republicans to a Democratic Administration!!! What is that all about?

We threw them out and they were invited back in!!

Did you vote for Republicans?? Apparently some here are okay with this, but not okay with Ron Paul being right about Bush's foreign policies. He WAS right. Who wasn't?? COMEY, Clapper eg. Now ensconced in a Dem Administration.

[Raffi Ella]

114. K&R

You should post more often.

I'm not an Obama Cheerleader by any means but you won't find me bashing the President or the Dems at DU too often, this OP explains why.

[bearssoapbox]

118. The first thing that I thought after reading this post was...

FUCKING....A....RIGHT!!!!!

I used to try to reason with the rethug/teabaggers/wingnuts and all it ever got me was to be called un-American, libtard, commie, well...everyone here knows the names. Finally I said 'fuck it' and started giving back as good or better than I got.

I figure that you can't reason with a rabid animal.

Oooooh the indignation that I would talk back to them in the tone that they use on me!!

Some are/were my friends and some are relatives.

The question that I like to ask them is 'Why do you want to me dead?'

When they say they don't, then I ask why do they support teabagger politicians that want to do away with medicare, medicaid and social security?

I tell them that they know my medical problems and that if I can't get my meds I probably wouldn't make it to Christmas.

So I ask them how would I get my meds and how do I pay for the doctor?

Some say that there are charities and churches that can help.

I tell them that my last ER visit, 2 weeks in ICU and 4 months of rehab cost about $250,000. Does their church have that kind of money or do they know of any organization that does?

I then get a blank and/or confused stare like they are waiting for a telepathic message from Faux News or OxyRush to tell them what to say.

When they do finally say anything it's usually on a completely different subject that is almost always anti-Obama.

Or they just mumble something, don't look me in the eye and suddenly have some other place to be.

So 'Fuck 'em'. I figure that I don't have to be civil to anyone that wants to see me suffer and/or die.

My wife also has medical problems that keep her from working but we are having problems getting her any help. She was just approved for medicaid so we hope something can be done for her. We're are waiting on information to that end now.

So thanks for a great post.

[Skittles]

119. worthy of its own thread

thank YOU for a great post, bearssoapbox

[bearssoapbox]

120. Thank you Skittles

Didn't think of that. I was reacting to the OP's thoughts.

After a while you just get tired of being nice to people that would just as soon stab you in the back as to look at you.

[Fire Walk With Me]

123. Obama? "Well-intentioned"? Sure, for some:

Corporate Profits Have Grown By 171 Percent Under Obama -- Highest Rate Since 1900
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/corporate-profits-have-grown-171-percent-under-obama-highest-rate-1900

"Average annual corporate profit growth under Obama is the highest since 1900, whereas profit growth declined during both Bush presidencies. As a share of the economy, corporate profits have never been higher.
Unfortunately, this profit deluge has not been shared by workers, whose wages as a percentage of the economy have fallen to all-time lows. Workers also got dinged by the recent increase in the payroll tax, which was large enough to wipe out a minimum wage increase in some states."

8 Huge Corporate Handouts in the Fiscal Cliff Bill
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/8-huge-corporate-handouts-fiscal-cliff-bill

"Throughout the months of November and December, a steady stream of corporate CEOs flowed in and out of the White House to discuss the impending fiscal cliff. Many of them, such as Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs, would then publicly come out and talk about how modest increases of tax rates on the wealthy were reasonable in order to deal with the deficit problem. What wasn’t mentioned is what these leaders wanted, which is what’s known as “tax extenders”, or roughly $205B of tax breaks for corporations. With such a banal name, and boring and difficult to read line items in the bill, few political operatives have bothered to pay attention to this part of the bill. But it is critical to understanding what is going on.

5) Subsidies for Goldman Sachs Headquarters – Sec. 328 extends 'tax exempt financing for York Liberty Zone,' which was a program to provide post-9/11 recovery funds. Rather than going to small businesses affected, however, this was, according to Bloomberg, 'little more than a subsidy for fancy Manhattan apartments and office towers for Goldman Sachs and Bank of America Corp.' Michael Bloomberg himself actually thought the program was excessive, so that’s saying something. According to David Cay Johnston’s The Fine Print, Goldman got $1.6 billion in tax free financing for its new massive headquarters through Liberty Bonds."

The Untouchables: How the Obama administration protected Wall Street from prosecutions
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/23/untouchables-wall-street-prosecutions-obama

Yes, Virginia, the Rich Continue to Get Richer: the Top 1% Got 121% of Income Gains Since 2009
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/02/yes-virginia-the-rich-continue-to-get-richer-the-1-got-121-of-income-gains-since-2009.html

U.S. banks in 2012 post highest profits since '06
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/26/us-usa-fdic-earnings-idUSBRE91P0N820130226?utm_source=Daily+Digest&utm_campaign=de8376aab3-DD_2_27_132_27_2013&utm_medium=email#.US5jjkXSlU8.twitter

This Year’s Subsidy to Wall Street = the Amount of This Year’s Sequester Cuts
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/02/this-years-subsidy-to-wall-street-the-amount-of-this-years-sequester-cuts.html#.US_yiFwwnHY.facebook

Don’t Blink, or You’ll Miss Another Bailout
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100466032

America faces more than a dozen deadlines, all caused by billionaires and wealth transfer
http://americablog.com/2013/02/america-faces-more-than-a-dozen-deadlines-all-caused-by-billionaires-and-wealth-transfer.html

Bank Bailout 2: Obama Lets Mortgage Abusers Off the Hook
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/02/09-5

Prison Labor Booms As Unemployment Remains High; Companies Reap Benefits
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/10/prison-labor_n_2272036.html

It’s Not a Housing Boom. It’s a Land Grab
http://colorlines.com/archives/2013/05/the_dangerous_new_housing_boom.html

[uppityperson]

138. Welcome to DU. Who do you think would fit that phrase? Who did you support for Pres last election?

Did you vote? Again, welcome to DU and tell us more about you.

[mick063]

145. This is what happens when Democrats become Republican

This.

Thank you centrist enablers.

[cyberswede]

151. You knew Kerry "was no good" ?

Was GWB better?

Oh...and Fuck Ron Paul.

[zappaman]

154. Fuck Ron Paul and...

fuck his fucking son Rand Paul too!

[LeftishBrit]

159. Ron Paul is scum of the earth.

He is worse than almost everyone except his own revolting son.

[uponit7771]

140. ...and then they use it to bash Obama

[Shade7M]

124. Goddam!

Hey, this guy flat-out NAILS the crux of the argument, and the main course of the discussion is about profanity???!! Who gives a fuck? We're talking about the survival of America as a free nation, and our future as a free people, and people just have to prove the op's argument by getting all twisted up in the tangent of "let's be polite not call names not use bad words, etc."

This is what liberalism has degenerated into: a smug, smarmy self-congratulatory social branding niche which is more about people making themselves feel righteous than making any real improvements in the lives of Americans. We're supposed to be worried about hurting peoples' feelings? Stupid should hurt, and people should be ashamed of it. They should be ashamed of the childish self-centered meanness one normally sees in a nursery school playground, and they should be ashamed of what this country's turning into!

I don't give a rat's fuck about their need to "feel right", and I sure as fuck don't fucking respect their so-called fucking right to go through life with their fat stupid heads stuck up their fat stupid asses as "another perspective we should be willing to consider."

Fuck anyone who tells me I should graciously, politiely submit to taking it up the ass while waiting for the fascist fucks to "come around"...

...and fuck any fascist goon who gets off on the destruction of the American way. History will see you cocksuckers for what you are: a bunch of pathetic shits getting a vicarious sense of empowerment by cheering on the oligarchs fucking us over, even if you're getting fucked yourselves. I won't wait for history to call you out on your evil stupidity, and neither should anyone else who cares about our survival as actual human beings and not just slaves compulsively backstabbing each other into oblivion, while rich greedy cocksuckers profit from the destruction of our civilization.

Great rant from the op, and a predictably pathetic response from those who strive to live down to the "pussified liberal" label.

[Shankapotomus]

125. I think simple shunning

would be more effective than just learning how to be mean to republicans.

Being mean, as we've seen with Republicans, tends to generate a bad public image.

I think our tactic, on a mass scale, should be to just withdraw our support and most importantly, whatever discomforts it may entail, our dependence on Republican and Conservative owned businesses.

We need to take care of ourselves better without depending on the exploiters for our daily sustenance.

We need to start more liberal owned enterprises, support them, fund them, and work for only them.

Find out who your employer supports politically and if they are Republican or Conservative, quit.

We don't need to be mean to defeat them.

We just need to have our own "religion."

And by religion I mean any belief or cause that promotes group cohesion on a large scale and is inclusive of all liberals, black, white, asian, straight, gay, male, female, etc.

We should make up t-shirts that exemplify our unity on that scale that read: "It's a liberal thing."

That's what I'm talking about. Not hate of another, but love each other.

Mass unity.

[jberryhill]

126. Cussing and yelling at them won't work, btw /nt

[TBF]

147. It depends who you're cussing/yelling at -

no it's not going to work to cuss at the Koch Bros. They really couldn't care less what you, I, Barack Obama, or anyone else cares about. They have their agenda and they are pushing it.

The place to get angry is with other activists firing up working class folks. Currently the rich folks and their very effective helpers - organized religion - have kept folks dumb and quiet. If they find out they can actually talk, yell, and even fight back - then we might actually have a chance.

[andlor]

129. +1

[another_liberal]

132. Well said!

Very well said, indeed.

[Stinky The Clown]

133. Democrats are either tactically stupid or willfully compliant.

No other conclusions are possible.

[BellaKos]

137. Fuck! The greatest word ever!

Fuck, a word renown in Olde England, expresses every emotion from fear to outrage to surprise to weariness and the most sublime of human emotions. It's a great word and should be said as much as possible.
But I digress.
As evidenced by this thread, we, who believe ourselves to be superior and better educated than they, spend our time and energy wringing our hands as we collectively whine over the state of the union.
Meanwhile .... The Right is planning strategies in order to fuck us, big time.
Their Corporate Masters will spend untold millions of dollars on ads carefully crafted to manipulate the public. They will lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, and purchase as many elected officials and journalists as they can in order to accomplish their longheld agenda of abolishing FDR's safety net and creating a Two-Tier society, consisting of the very rich 1% and the Rest who are not so poor that they riot in the streets. In other, the AGENDA is to fuck us, big time.
And all the while, we whine and carry on about the word, fuck, (the greatest word ever) and whether or not 2+2=4 or 3+1=4.
Oh, and ... we don't show up in off-year elections either.
So ... aw fuck. It seems too fuckin' late, doesnt' it? I mean, for fuck's sake, what will it take for people to wake the fuck up. Fuck it!

[maddiemom]

139. Wow! Tell us what you REALLY think!

Sadly I agree with every word. Moving on: the only problem with the expletive "fuck," is that it has sadly lost the ability to shock anyone under eighty or those not educated enough to realize that a combination of letters in a word only really means whatever current culture makes of it. Prefer to be classy enough not to use it...fine. Offended by it? Grow up. It's only a word. In college, a friend and I experimented in finding an innocuous word (preferably warm and fuzzy)to turn into a verboten expletive. We settled on "cookie" as both an noun and adjective. We spread it around and the results were more hilarious than enlightening. Those who got it, thought it was funny. Those who didn't were just puzzled. I realize that "fuck" is one of those words meant to shock. It's just been far overused in today's culture.

[snooper2]

143. paragraphs are your friend

[AlbertCat]

146. It means that just about half the country,

Actually it means 47% of the something like 40% of eligible voters who actually vote.

If everyone who could vote simply would vote.... the Dems would fill the House and Senate.

Thus.... voter suppression laws.

[Glaisne]

155. That's the problem

Liberals think we're in a debate instead of in a war.

[Angelonthesidelines]

156. LIST THE FACTS

We don't need to assign intelligence to the T-bag claque.

People are not stupid, they just look stupid because they bought a line of bullshit that they are fond of, thus reluctant to leave behind.

You can give them some I'm superior front to what you're trying to prove, but that will only entrench their position that much more.

It's not so much "respecting their different perspective" as it is about demolishing the foundations of their delusion.

The quickest way to do this?

List the facts

H/T to Bartcop.com

[Sarah Ibarruri]

157. great post! maybe we libs can learn from it.

[Gregorian]

160. OK, you've just made me conscious that I have always felt that liberals are at the center, and

conservatives are away from center. Hmm. I can't say the way I feel it. So I'll just put it in 5 year old terms.

Liberals are normal. They are the default human condition. They are what a human is when they are informed and aware.

Conservatives are not.

[ancianita]

161. I'm with you. I've fought bullshit attempts at bipartisanship. People on the right respect fighters.

Liberals have to go there and stay there! I'm tired of lib talk getting muddled into bullshit inaction.

[LanternWaste]

162. I imagine many Republicans are rational just as I imagine many Democrats are irrational.

I imagine many Republicans are rational people just as I imagine many Democrats are irrational idiots. My own acquaintances bear this out to my satisfaction...

Yet with all the people telling me to wake up to one sentiment or another, is it any wonder I often get tired of the pontificating and prophecy?

[Phillyindy]

165. The key word being...

"Imagine". You want to believe it, but the fact is there isn't anything rational about the beliefs and policies of the modern day Republican voter.

See, as highly intelligent beings, liberals assume that others around them are equally as smart, or even smarter. There are studies on this phenomenon.

Meanwhile, those studies also show that less intelligent people, even the dumbest among us, tend to assume they are the smartest people in the room.

This is why Liberals spend so much time assuming that if we just present the facts properly, politely, pragmatically, they will surely see the light. This is why liberals question themselves, demonstrate introspection, are open to new information and being wrong.

To the point of my initial post, liberals assume most on the other side are, in the end, reasonable, intelligent people, like us, and tailor their messaging accordingly.

They are not.

[Safetykitten]

164. Excellent perfect post.

[mtnester]

168. Thank you

[dreamnightwind]

173. I see it much more as a top vs bottom war

than a left vs right war. There will always be left-right battles, and I care deeply about them, but that's the sideshow, the distraction. The real war is the 1% having their way with the rest of us, liberals and conservatives alike. The OP either diminishes this point or doesn't agree with it.

The Democrats, sadly, are no longer on the side of the 99%, and that a HUGE part of the problem. With the exception of only a very few in the House and the Senate, and pretty much nobody appointed by our Democratic president, there is nobody in Washington fighting for our interests, nobody. They are all on the payroll of the 1%. Fix that, then we can start to make a difference.

Comprehensive campaign finance reform is the only game in town, because until we get it, they'll continue to screw us.

[mick063]

176. Spot on

And so a term is needed to identify this political brand.

Is it Occupy? Is it liberal? Is it Progressive?

As opposed to saying "I'm a Democrat", how can I define myself further, as a subset of Democrat, so I may distance myself from the cancer that is killing the party? Or is the disease terminal?

Is it time to join the Greens? What about the Progressive Party?

Is the Democratic Party so far gone, that it isn't worth the effort anymore?

Where do I go from here? Give me some direction.

Anyone.

But before you respond, consider the following:



From this day forward, voting, as well as diligently persuading others to vote similarly, will be based upon traditional liberal values. I will not accept being lectured that my vote is "wasted". Ever. My peace of mind is worth more than that. I am a "conscientious objector" to facilitating further plutocracy. I will vote Green, or Socialist, or Progressive, if the ideology is a better fit.

My fear of Republicans is gone, vanished, because powerful elements within the Democratic Party are worse. Worse because unlike Republicans that make it clear where they stand, Democrats have deceived me during elections and surprised me when in power. I am absolutely done with accepting it.

So now that you know where I stand, clue me in. Anyone. Where do I go from here and does that include vacating DU?

I promise to follow the most well reasoned advice.

[dreamnightwind]

182. You might find a better ideological fit

in one of those other parties, but I've come to believe that you'll just be abandoning any real chance at bringing that ideology to power. Seems to me that the system is rigged to support 2 parties. Maybe we can change that after getting the corrupting influence of private money out of elections, though I doubt it. So if your conscience needs it, go for it. I don't think it helps. Why not be less principled and more practical by giving the Dem your vote when it appears that it will keep a Republican out of office, but also putting all of your efforts and donations into CCFR (comprehensive campaign finance reform), or kick-starting campaigns for non-corporate Dems?

As for DU, I'd say stay here and stay within the rules, it isn't that hard, and fight the good fight, we need you here, and there are many here who share your views.

As for a name, I actually think that's a great place to put some energy. We need a name for a subgroup of the Democratic Party that doesn't buy the 3rd Way smoke and mirrors. The Tea Party is no parallel since they're corporate puppets, but they did establish themselves as a powerful bloc within the Republican Party that has to be reckoned with. There really needs to be a subgroup of our party that the party leaders will have to fear and respect. An organization and a name would be great. The Progressive Caucus is there, but they're mostly bought, too, and powerless besides. My own rep is in that caucus and he had a lot of corporate money behind him, he isn't a reliable defender of the 99% at all, in fact he and his well-funded campaign got in the way of better candidates in the primary.

Better yet, why not a group that isn't a true party, just a group of ordinary Americans that have awakened to the fact that our reps are working for other bosses, not for us. It could leave left-right issues completely to the domain of the 2 major parties, and promote non-corporate candidates in both of them. I used to kick around a name for such a thing, probably lame, but it was the CoJones Party (yeah that'll sure fly, lol. It was for the popular all-American name Jones, also for cohones, literally a nut-sack with a left nut and a right nut,, would look great on a redneck's trailer hitch for that matter).

We're going to need the support of the most salt-of-the-earth, down-home, intellectually challenged low-information voters to get power back from the corporations, and that isn't likely to happen by pushing a progressive agenda down their throats. I'm pretty sure we can get them to understand that it's the corporations that are screwing them, many of them already know it. Enlist their help, enact the money reforms, and fight left-right battles as two sides of a loyal opposition, as good Americans who happen to differ on social policy.

My 2 cents, thanks for responding, hopefully this discussion continues here and in other threads.

[Phillyindy]

179. The problem isn't the 1%...

...it's the 1/10th of the top 1%. People making 200k, 300k, even a few million a year are generally not the problem. It's the top 400 families who control most of the wealth...not to mention the banks, the courts, the politicians, the land, etc...

That being said, to say democrats are just as bad as Republicans as far as pandering to this oligarchy is offensively false...and a HUGE victory to the Republicans as that kind of hopeless apathy toward all politicians and government is exactly what they want.

This isn't to say Dems are perfect, they too have been corrupted by big money, but its nothing compared to Republicans. Republicans aren't even a political party, they are the representatives of the oligarchy, period, end of subject. I won't go through the list of legislation democrats have passed to help average people, or the list of things they publicly advocate for but are politically impossible at the moment - from better union laws to Wall Street regulations to funding education and infrastructure, to the entire social safety net. Hopefully you know all this...or maybe you don't, as considering Republicans furiously oppose all of these things, saying Dems and Repubs are both just surrogates of billionaires is absurd.

[dreamnightwind]

180. What part of good cop bad cop don't you understand?

I don't buy into false equivalence, there's no Republican I can imagine ever voting for, since I disagree with pretty much everything that party even pretends to stand for.

But yeah, I'm way more down on the elected Dems than you. Obama, with his record and his appointments, is nowhere close to anything I would ever support. Better than McCain? No doubt. But playing the same game, working for the same forces, a Dem like that legitimizes the goals of the uber-rich like no Republican can.

We have to fix the system so actual Democrats can be elected, rather than the oligarchy's "good cops" that call themselves Democrats.

To the extent that we can work within the party to get an actual good Democrat to run in a primary, maybe even to actually win a primary and the general election, that's great and well worth the effort. My own district is absolutely safe blue, so it makes sense to elect someone more progressive than Jared Huffman, our incumbent.

It's also worth the effort, IMO, to show up at election day and reluctantly check the box next to the corporate Dem's name if the race is close enough that it makes any difference. I still do so when I think it might matter. But that doesn't get us anywhere better. At best it just slows down the kleptocracy, though in practice it often hastens it, since a Dem doing the bidding of the powerful can get a lot more done for them using the popular veneer of the Democratic Party to get people to accept otherwise unacceptable policies. And the corporations are well aware of that fact, which is why they support Democrats as well as Republicans.

Most all of effort really needs to go into campaign finance reform, complete public financing of all federal elections, at a minimum. There is also a corporate money problem in state-wide races, not sure if that has to be fought state by state or if a constitutional amendment could also take care of that money. It's an incredibly difficult task but it absolutely has to happen. If you put 70 Dems in the Senate, a Dem House majority and a Dem president, without campaign finance reform, you still won't see government for the people, almost every single one of them is and will be totally owned by big business interests.

[Phillyindy]

183. Well said, can't say

I disagree with any of it. Like you, taking the money out of politics is what I consider to be the only thing that will give us a chance to begin to work to really fix things.

[raouldukelives]

181. K&R Great rant!

Why I always say there is no such thing as a liberal investor anymore. Just deluded libertarians. We will all reap what they have sown.