Dear supporters of Hillary Clinton 2016....

[NYC_SKP]

And, for that matter...

Dear Hillary, should you actually decide to run:

[DJ13]

1. Hillary would never think like that

And thats the problem with Hillary (and 99% of the rest of the potential field in 2016).

Thanks!

[bvar22]

2. As she disclosed here, Hillary works for the Top 6%:

Hey! Whatever happened to that guy who said he would Raise-the-CAP?
That guy could have been a good President.

[Beacool]

3. Resorting to Obama campaign videos?

Yeah, he's turned out into such a liberal.........

BTW, Hillary was referring to household income.

[bvar22]

15. Yeah. Firefighters with "household incomes" over $125,000/yr.

[Crow73]

18. Nice

[Beacool]

24. I was referring to the $96,000 mentioned in the ad.

It's not that unusual for a household to have two people who work and make that kind of money. A salary of $48,000 is not that much in this part of the country.

[bvar22]

25. Your argument is NOT with me.

It is with Hillary.

[Beacool]

26. I have no argument with Hillary.

[DonCoquixote]

31. Obama failed because

He hired Clinton staff like Geitner and Summers, listened to Clinton stooges, and even hired the Woman herself to do the one thing we were afraid of, keep the country on a war footing in the Mid-East, for the benefit of her good friends in Tel-Aviv.

The problem with Obama is this he became the third and fourth Clinton terms, and now may be the launchpad for a fifth and sixth, so that Bill can put in wonders like the Keystone Pipeline.

[AgingAmerican]

66. So, Obama is just a marionette?

rofl

[DonCoquixote]

67. not totally, but he listens

way too much to those we did NOT want back in power.
If Hillary wins in 2016, my silver lining is going to be watching her sell down the river all the people who speak of her as Eleanor Roosevelt meets Joan of Arc, especially the PUMAS.

And when she tries to "obliterate" Iran, I really look forward to the backlflips people will do, wait wait, here's one, she is going to try an liberate the women if Iran, so they can enjoy the freedom their sisters in Iraq can.

[AgingAmerican]

68. Obama makes his own decisions

Hillary will be a fine president.

[DonCoquixote]

70. If she runs the country

They way she ran her 2008 campaign, she won't.

And the way she acted as SOS, defending Mubarak and killing Gadaffi, she is one person I do NOT want driving the War Machine, and that does not include her comment about her willingness to "obliterate" Iran on Israel's behalf. No, I will not let her live that down, as a war with Iran could easily start world war II, considering that the Chinese get their oil from there. Remember those guys, the ones we owe money too?

[AgingAmerican]

73. Presidencys aren't campaigns

nt

[DonCoquixote]

74. no they are not

and since so many people love to slam Obama for being different than his campaign, I offer you this, if Hillary could not tell Bill to shut up during her campaign, do we really want to see him cut loose in the Oval office, the same one that still stinks of Cigar Smoke and Intern perfume? As is, she is already too far to the right, do I want to see her make the lurch further right when she is in office, hell no.

It is one thing to hate Obama and like Hillary, but please, do not try and sell her as a Leftish Liberal, because she is not. The Clinton's purpose is , was, and always will be to destroy the left, and drag the democrats to the center, which is basically the GOP before Reagan. That is NOT what we need.

[AgingAmerican]

75. You sound like

Ken Starr.

[cascadiance]

4. And would Clinton stop the H-1B outsourcing that is keeping many of us iT folk out of work?

F'ING NO!!

She makes it sounds like many of us that don't want to be paid wages for the cost of living in India are "untrained" and need more training, which is f'ing BS that she's being fed by the lobbyists for this indentured slave labor program!

Elizabeth Warren on the other hand, recognizes the problems with the current immigration bill that is putting in these "outsourcing visas".

http://thebeerbarrel.net/threads/senate-plans-to-fuck-americans-some-more-by-doubling-h1b-visas.20415/

Ms. Clinton in 2016? NO THANK YOU!

[antigop]

12. do the DLC/Third Way sycophants care? nt

Last edited Tue Jul 30, 2013, 06:11 PM - Edit history (1)

[stillwaiting]

49. They absolutely do care. They care about corporate and investor profits.

It's almost become a zero-sum game for them. They are literally transferring money from average American bank accounts into corporate and investor bank accounts.

Corporate Democrats, on economic issues, are not much better than Republicans for the average American. They both are absolutely horrible.

[antigop]

51. +1000. They don't care about preserving good US jobs. nt

[UTUSN]

5. R#9 & K for, I did my time with the CLINTONs

When I didn't know who Bill was in the '92 early primaries, I picked him as a stand out and committed. As the scandals popped up I dismissed them as dirty Wingnut tricks and vociferously defended him and even more with the FAKE impeachment. But after the dust settled, the magnitude of his real problem became clear: Not the sex, but that he put his selfish appetites ahead of our Dem agenda, putting us in the position of spending most of our energies in defending him instead of our spending them on working toward the actual agenda.

But in '08 I was totally Hillary until it was clear she had lost. At first I saw OBAMA as an upstart and not having paid enough dues and empty rhetoric and cult. But when THAT dust settled, I saw that she ran a totally INSIDE the box campaign, threw away millions on stale, establishment p.r. dudes (mismanagement), and was totally outmaneuvered. I've only been to four political rallies in my life, two of those for women candidates and one for Teresa KERRY, and I saw her TIRED in '08. Then I was thrilled when OBAMA picked her for SoS and thrilled to see them together. But through most of the four years, I liked hearing (and hearing and hearing) what a great SoS job she was doing, until I stopped for a second to process, "What, exactly, has she actually accomplished besides just flying and flying and flying around?!1 No big negotiations, no treaties, no nothing except flying and photo ops." Then the FAKE Benghazi Wingnut trap was sprung, and it wasn't about Benghazi but rather about how unprepared she was to deal with the Wingnut trap and skipped out.

So what I see about Hillary is that she's been hyped for supposedly being smart, yet her actual accomplishments are will-o'wisps, and at the same time she is a HUGH!1 target for Wingnuts to pillory. Pillory/Hillary is her name. It should go without saying that if she is the nominee, I'll be there. Again. My favorite pic:

[East Coast Pirate]

10. That was a rather odd endorsement.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

11. agreed

[UTUSN]

14. Huh?!1 I didn't endorse anybody beyond wanting anybody fresh and genius, including Senator WARREN.

My post was mostly about ruling Hillary CLINTON out unless she is actually the nominee. Gratuitously here, I'll also rule Joe B. out (unless he's the nominee).

Besides, the O.P. is not an outright "endorsement" of Senator WARREN so much as it is advice to Hillary CLINTON. As for who I "endorse," it will always be somebody in the Democratic primaries that aren't happening right now, with my final vote being whoever the Democratic nominee is totally apart from my Primaries preference, from whatever wing of the Democratic party that nominee comes from.


I would have luerved hearing some appreciation for astute analysis and brilliant history, but oh well. And welcome to DU.

[East Coast Pirate]

17. I meant it wasn't a very enthusiastic promise to support her.

Obama was part of the Chicago crowd before he ran for president. He just seemed like a renegade during the democratic primary election. I've had enough of that conservative Chicago axis.

If it's not Warren in 2016 I'll have very little enthusiasm. The Democratic Party will have a rude awakening if they back another conservative corporatist pretending to have liberal values.

[UTUSN]

22. Well, I *did* explain why my support for hillary would be a phoning-it-in thing

Although I'm not clear who you mean by "her" as in "promise to support her." Do you mean Hillary CLINTON or Senator WARREN?

Everybody's got pluses and minuses. I love almost all Dems, and for me just about any Dem is better than ALL/ANY Rethugs. And I admire WARREN, but my caveat is her abrasiveness. Again NEEDLESS TO SAY, I will support any Dem nominee from whatever wing, and I'll say that if it's WARREN I will be enthusiastic, despite the harder odds against her.

My bottom line is: Who CAN WIN. I've had way past my share of NOBLE LOSERS. They are beautiful to behold, but it's the Dem agenda that counts and NOTHING can be accomplished without WINNING. Even a pisspoor Dem who WINS has impact on nominating judges and policy bureaucrats for decades to come.


But since this is your position: "The Democratic Party will have a rude awakening if they back another conservative corporatist pretending to have liberal values." -- you and I will never be on the same page, and not because *I* am a "conservative corporatist pretending to have liberal values." Cafeteria-Voters are why Rethugs can win/steal.

[bvar22]

16. In 1992, Ross was RIGHT, but Clinton was SMOOOOOOOTH.

Ross WAS right.
And, as Perot predicted, those "jobs" are NOW returning to America
AFTER Wages, benefits, and worker protections have dropped to 3rd World levels.

But Bill WAS Smoooooooth.
Bill Clinton actually managed to CONVINCE most Democrats that
IF they competed with 3rd World Slave Labor for their jobs,
THAT would be GOOD for the American Worker.
Now THAT is SMOOOOOOOTH.
Bill was so smooth that SOME people STILL believe that TODAY!!!

[font size=3]"The American Worker CAN compete with any worker in the World"[/font] (just as soon as he gets hungry and desperate enough!).
It took 25 years, but HERE we ARE!




You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS,[/font]
not by their promises or excuses.

[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity![/font]

[TeeYiYi]

21. k+r this post/vid. ..nt

TYY

[DonCoquixote]

40. I truly hate to say it

But for all the popcorn carnival smell of Perot, he was very right about NAFTA. I still hear the suckign sound, and on the other side, many Mexicans cannot afford their own Corn.

[antigop]

52. Of course, Ross was right. But DLC/Third Way sycophants don't care. nt

[pampango]

65. As a republican, Perot was a idiot about NAFTA and many other things.

Long before NAFTA manufacturing output was increasing and employment was decreasing.



http://emsnews.wordpress.com/2010/02/28/nuclear-wars-and-earthquakes-increase-economic-problems/

I don't see any change in the rate of increase in manufacturing output or decrease in manufacturing employment because of NAFTA.

Moreover, every industrialized country has had the same decline in manufacturing employment; all of whom have nothing to do with NAFTA, other than Canada.



Krugman addressed the increase in manufacturing trade. It was not due to tariffs (or lack thereof).

You see the interwar trade decline; the growth in world trade after World War II didn’t return to 1913 levels of globalization until around 1970. But since then, trade has grown incredibly. Interestingly, the big tariff cuts in GATT rounds had already happened in the early 1950's; what we’re looking at here is trade liberalization in developing countries plus containerization, and the emergence of massive vertical specialization (iWhatevers being made in many stages in different countries).

No special moral here — and no, it doesn’t actually make the world flat, because services account for most value added and are still mainly not tradable. But it’s quite a picture.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/03/unprecedented-globalization/

[bhikkhu]

72. Thank you for the facts

the alternative narratives are so embedded on both of the other sides (conservatives saying US manufacturing was ruined by unions and environmentalists, while the left focuses on offshoring) - that the facts are seldom heard. Generally speaking, nine out of ten of the job losses in manufacturing over the last few decades is due to technology and automation, and there are no particular solutions to that, political or otherwise.

Actually, the ACA is one pretty basic structural solution; it doesn't solve the jobs problem, but it does erase the line of privilege which has long ensured that people here without good full-time jobs haven't had access to healthcare.

[Beacool]

23. You seem to know zip about the foreign policy environment we are living in now.

Why do you think that Hillary was traveling as much as she did, because she wanted to visit all the God forsaken places that no one could find in a map??????????? The world has changed, our economy stinks and we don't wield the kind of power that our economy and military might allowed us to have since the end of WWII. Although few would like to admit it, we are in decline. Nowadays it's about showing up and trying to get the best deal we can get with not much to go on.

Why are you repeating RW B.S.?

[UTUSN]

29. I just *hate* not getting the memos, in this case, the one

that said I was supposed to live up to your particular expectations. ("The Gestalt Prayer" from my fringe, post-hippie '70s days is shown below for your benefit, you're welcome.)

To your RW smear, I'll say, why are you name-calling and being rude to a fellow DUer. Not really a question, so no question mark. And emoticons lose their cuteness when attached to rudeness.

*******QUOTE*******

[font size=5]The Gestalt Prayer

I do my thing and you do your thing.
[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]I am not in this world to live up to your expectations[/FONT],
And you are not in this world to live up to mine.
You are you, and I am I,
and if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful.
If not, it can't be helped.

(Fritz Perls, "Gestalt Therapy Verbatim", 1969)[/font]

********UNQUOTE********

[Beacool]

45. I wasn't trying to be rude to you.

But you're spouting RW talk. That's what they claim, that Hillary only spent time traveling on our dime and did nothing more.

My father was a diplomat and at one time I thought of going into that field too. It's absolutely ridiculous to state that any SOS just flies around willy-nilly for no apparent reason. We are no longer as powerful as we were before. The big agreements between nations are hard to come by. In today's foreign policy climate it's all about baby steps. There was also the antipathy toward the US that the Bush years engendered. A lot of feathers that were ruffled had to be smoothed, that required face time. She's also one of the most well know women in the world, people wanted to see her. If you ever traveled with Hillary you would realize that it's like traveling with a rock star. Mobs of people would line up streets and every event would be packed.

[UTUSN]

64. But I suppose that you wouldn't RW-smear or personally insult me so long as I say all POSITIVE

things about those you approve of. Apparently my Post #5 wasn't specific enough for you to get how supportive I was, and IF SHE IS THE NOMINEE how I will be AGAIN. Funny how you say you didn't mean to be rude/whatever then IMMEDIATELY DO IT AGAIN!1

Let's just say that I'm not a young (total: ) idealist at my age and have nothing to be lectured about in terms of my unfailing Dem politics.

Since The Gestalt Prayer didn't work with you, my final try will be this quote from EarlG about how much energy here in DU is spent on fighting with each other instead of focusing on our REAL wingnut enemies who want to wipe us out:


*********QUOTE********

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023225969

[font size=5]If I could interrupt for a moment, how about... the Hate Mailbag![/font]

(by EarlG, DU Administrator)

[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Democratic Underground may be a contentious place at the moment, but thank goodness there are some common truths which still bring us together[/FONT] after all these years. For example, I think we can all agree that no matter which side of the Snowden vs. Obama debate you come down on, you're a right-wing ratfucking paid-to-post shill. Amirite?!?!

Anyway, [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]if you've been spending a little too much time scrapping with your fellow progressives[/FONT] in the DU bubble lately it may have slipped your mind that [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]there are real right-wing assholes out there who wish for nothing more than to see us all crucified and burned[/FONT] at the stake simultaneously. (Which I've got to admit would make for a pretty sweet heavy metal album cover).

So here's the Hate Mailbag to give you a taste of [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]what conservatives are saying out there in the real world[/FONT], sprinkled with a dash of good old-fashioned WTF. Enjoy!

**********UNQUOTE*********

[DonCoquixote]

39. YUP

The world has changed, our economy stinks and we don't wield the kind of power that our economy and military might allowed us to have since the end of WWII. Although few would like to admit it, we are in decline.

And a lot of that is because of stuff Bill and Hill did on their watch, and Hill's tenure as SOS helped to finish off any desire the World would have to see us back up.

[Beacool]

42. You're relentless, aren't you?

Always with the digs about something or other.

Hillary did a damn good job given what she had to work with. Besides, when it comes to foreign policy, it's the president who sets policy.

[DonCoquixote]

43. Yes I am

and while again, I will vote for her if she wins the nom, I look forward to the primary. Last time, I was the nice kid that got called sexist because I thought we could do better than Hillary, now, I will be the nasty man who knows that making Hillary our president is like a stage four lung cancer patient taking up chain smoking, something that will injure us at best, kill us at worst.

[bvar22]

27. Now THAT is just not FAIR!

When Hillary was the Senator from New York
she led the charge against Violence in Video Games
and Flag Burning.

Give her some credit for Taking-the-Lead on these controversial issues.


You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]

[bahrbearian]

6. K&R

[KoKo]

7. Indeed...

's

[Le Taz Hot]

8. If only we could get her past the

Democratic Party Machine but we'd have to convince Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina and they all seem pretty inside-the-beltway states. IF the other 48 states were able to participate in a meaningful way, we wouldn't have to rely on THREE MOR states. But it was set up that way for a reason and it's why we will, most likely, end up with Hillary.

[iandhr]

9. Good god

Can we stop talking about 2016. Were more than three years away.

[cascadiance]

13. I think if we want a real alternative, we DO need to start talking about it now!

Those who want Hillary are touting her now, because they know that if they push her to be "inevitable" now that they might stop a grass roots effort to get someone like Warren on the ticket. We really do need to work on this for a long time to get the right grass roots support for someone like Warren, who will have the corporate media, and both parties aligned against her running. And that would be even if many of the issues (if she's given the chance to speak on them) will resonate with people on all sides of the political aisle that are being victimized today by the 1%ers that control too much of the power structure.

[allin99]

19. Why not just post the clip? If hrc voters are going...

to switch because of it, they'll switch.

[Peacetrain]

20. I will never work another Presidential election as long as I live

Did 2 in a row.. and just wore me out. sticking to the state elections.. I think Elizabeth Warren would be a wonderful choice.. she would get a lot of blow back from the right.. but the fact is.. no matter who we put up.. they are going to be smeared from day one.. so would Hillary.. its just who you think can do the better job..

[Starry Messenger]

28. I don't think Skinner is changing the rules here if Clinton wins the primaries.

We will all be Hillary Clinton supporters in 2016 if she is the candidate.

[NYC_SKP]

32. If....

And until then, if that time ever comes, I'll be firmly in the camp of one of her opponents.

This "inevitable" candidate bullshit is what gets us in trouble every election season.

It didn't work last time, thank goodness, and I'll post again and again against her candidacy just as I did in 2007.

ciao.

[Starry Messenger]

33. I'm just watching this phenomenon with amusement.

I was an Obama primary supporter. But it sounds like there might be a lot of sad PUMAs here if Mrs. Clinton gets the nod. Lots from a camp that was viciously nasty to others who supported other candidates...

[winter is coming]

38. I don't expect the TOS will change, either,

but silencing dissent isn't the same thing as creating support.

[UglyGreed]

30. Enough of American Royalty

Last edited Tue Jul 30, 2013, 05:52 PM - Edit history (1)

lets move on from the Bushes and the Clintons and give good old Liz a chance!!! At this point do we really have anything to lose??? Warren/Sanders or Grayson 2016

[William769]

34. ...

[NYC_SKP]

35. I love that!

I'm stealing it!





~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Beacool]

47. And you, stop trying to stir up trouble!!!

Go hug the fur balls instead of watching the fur fly over here.

[NYC_SKP]

57. Beacool!!!

Hi sweetie!

I was hoping you'd miss this OP... Drat!

[Beacool]

62. I caught you "in flagranti" trying to push your gal.

[Autumn]

36. That's the best I have ever seen

[Beacool]

46. Love it!!

[Octafish]

37. One nation under Walmart.

Jackson Stephens really loved the Rose Law Firm.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4630396&mesg_id=4631257

[antigop]

55. corporate nationhood under the TPP --Hillary played leading part

according to Business Week.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=67554

eta: Waiting for the "But she was just acting according to what Obama wanted" meme.

Cue the "haters/bashers" posts....countdown....3....2...1...

[Octafish]

59. FOB

Friends of Prescott B.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/FE21Ad01.html

[PennsylvaniaMatt]

41. I like both women....

Though I prefer Hillary over Elizabeth Warren because Hillary would have a much easier path to the White House than Warren, especially if the GOP nominates someone like Chris Christie or Jeb Bush.

I don't want to be seen as putting down Warren, I think she is a great senator, but while people constantly put down Hillary as a "third way" Democrat who "isn't progressive enough" or seriously criticize aspects of her past, it is worth noting that Elizabeth Warren, for many years in the 1980s and 90s, was a Republican who voted for Reagan and Bush and who only began to lean towards the Democrats when she was 46 years old in 1995, at the same time Bill and Hillary Clinton were fighting against those policies. Even though the party has changed somewhat, much of the Republican economic philosophy has been the same since then. Warren rails against the GOP for their economic policies now, but she voted for the people that enacted them. In my opinion, that is worse than any policy position that Hillary Clinton ever took on economics.

I just want to be fair as we bash Hillary, yet put Elizabeth Warren on a pedestal.

[Metric System]

44. Shhh...you're making sense.

[Beacool]

48. This........

I like Warren just fine and I hope that she stays in the Senate for years to come because she's needed there.

But I don't get why some on the Left think that a person who never ran for anything before barely winning her Senate seat in a blue state, will be ready to run for president in another 1 1/2 years.

There's a lot more to running a country as large as this one than being against Wall Street.

Thinking that she can win in a general election is as crazy as the Freepers' dreams of seeing Palin or another Tea Bagger become president. It ain't going to happen.

[TheKentuckian]

69. Make that Hillary and Bill were IMPLEMENTING those Republican policies

[DCBob]

82. +1

[mick063]

50. I will work against Hillary

To the bitter end. I will never, ever mark her box and will do my best to persuade others to do the same.

I often read here, "Why do Republicans vote against their best interests?"

If you vote Hillary, you are no different. No room to talk.

[1-Old-Man]

53. And I will be right there beside you - and I agree with the text of your message too.

[Metric System]

54. There will be more of us working for her. We're here for Hillary! (sorry, I had to) eom

[mick063]

56. Then let it all play out

Be prepared for spending as much time mitigating dissent as delivering your "message".

[brooklynite]

60. Were the anti-Hillary people this nasty four years ago?

I remember a spirited debate among campaigns, but I don't recall things getting ugly.

[Beacool]

63. Yes, they were just as nasty.

That's why a good number of Hillary supporters left and didn't come back. This site has never been Clinton friendly.

Well, 2016 is not 2008. I don't know if Hillary will choose to run or not, but I'm convinced that this time around if she runs she wins.

[amuse bouche]

76. Maybe a lot of Hillary supporters left

but many were booted too

Just sayin

[Beacool]

78. Is that supposed to be a good thing?

Censorship is nothing to celebrate.

Just saying...........

[amuse bouche]

81. Not at all a good thing

Just a clue...hint..possibility?

[DonCoquixote]

71. er,with all due respect

When we are all called sexist by the likes of Jane Hamsher, Ariana Huffington, and Erica Jong, I say it got ugly. When Erica Jong accused Matt Tabbi of hating Hillary because he wanted to have sex with his mother, it got ugly:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-taibbi/erica-jong-thinks-i-want_b_96169.html

[Beacool]

79. With all due respect.

It was a two way street and a lot of crap was thrown at Hillary and her supporters too.

[DonCoquixote]

80. I will admit

some Obama supprters did sink, and I yelled at them for doing so, but Hillary's people did it used the fact they had more clout (like Ms. Erica Jong) and used the "sexist" card so many times it cheapened the term. 2088 was in many ways, Du's worst hour, as people on all sides were victims of slander and outright purges, where Tombstones were rolled out on assembly lines. As the GOP will not put a minority candidate up, there will not as likely be that specter again, thank Providence, but as much as I do not like the fact the Primary of 2016 will be ugly again, I know we need it.

[Safetykitten]

58. Hillary...Obama's third term.

[SwampG8r]

61. actually bill's 5th is truer

[phiddle]

77. Make that Reagan's 10th