"This whole who-is-the-paid-shill witch hunt is disruptive nonsense." - Skinner

[Nye Bevan]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by William769 (a host of the General Discussion forum).

1. This whole who-is-the-paid-shill witch hunt is disruptive nonsense.

It betrays an utter lack of creativity on the part of the people making the accusation. They are so convinced that they are right that they cannot imagine someone else might hold a different point of view in good faith. Either that or they are incapable of advocating for their own point of view on the merits.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1259&pid=2716

This was in ATA but I thought it warranted more exposure.

[datasuspect]

1. as with everything

follow the money.

but yeah.

[Arctic Dave]

2. Skinner is a Troll!?

[The Magistrate]

3. Hear Hear, Sir!

It needs to stop.

Preferably by yesterday.

[Ohio Joe]

7. I bet Skinner paid you to say that...

[AtomicKitten]

4. thanks for posting this here

[villager]

5. "they cannot imagine someone else might hold a different point of view in good faith"

Boy, that's a shoe that fits a lot of places, eh?

[MNBrewer]

69. I've heard that a lot regarding GLBT issues

"Good faith", my ass.

[BumRushDaShow]

6. Thank you for posting that

Hopefully that will be the last word on that (although I doubt it, but we'll see).

[Fuddnik]

8. I want a raise!

[Fumesucker]

9. Actually it's kind of comforting in an odd way to think some of the posters are paid

I feel less concern over their mental state when I think people are saying something head trauma level stupid because they are being paid to say it.

[leftstreet]

12. +1

[Pretzel_Warrior]

13. you'd like to think people posting stupid things are getting paid...but there is not enough money

in the world do fund the stupidity posted across the internet. So we'll just say everyone has their own definition of stupid, and there are times when people post at less than their best. On top of that, there are truly a lot of people out there who post without benefit of knowing how to communicate effectively in writing at all and who have never been trained in critical thinking.

[sufrommich]

16. Yes, because obviously those who disagree are

mentally ill.That is so much less self-important than the paid shills angle.

[Skittles]

24. it's not "those who disagree"

it's those who NEVER find fault with a certain someone - *EVER* <----------- THAT IS NOT NORMAL

[Donald Ian Rankin]

41. I think you need to rethink your definition of the word "normal".

Any behaviour in which a large number of people regularly engage is, by definition, normal.

[LanternWaste]

50. Unless that number rests inside of a sub-set rather than the whole.

"... large number of people regularly engage is, by definition, normal."

Unless that number rests inside of a sub-set rather than the whole.

[sufrommich]

45. Who cares? Or better yet, why do you care?

That fact that you can't convince some anonymous person on the internet to believe what you believe isn't a clue that they are mentally ill or getting paid, not everyone believes or values the same things you do. You don't get to decide what's "normal". There isn't anything ominous about party line or pro Obama democrats being on DU,no matter how much some try to paint it as such.

[Inkfreak]

52. +1 (nt)

[Yo_Mama]

66. Yup

If we have actually reached the point at which a poster supporting a Democratic president on a forum called "Democratic Underground" is used as proof that the poster is either insane or paid, I don't know what to think.

[Fumesucker]

26. Stupid is not the same thing as mentally ill

And we do have a lot of people saying stupid stuff on DU, we practically all do it from time to time but some posters seem to be ready to corner the market on logical fallacies.

[Skittles]

21. AGREED!!!!!!!!!

they do NOT just have "another viewpoint" - they OBSESS LIKE GROUPIES

[backscatter712]

25. The evidence is in the posting patterns.

You see them too.

[Skittles]

30. I feel sorry for them otherwise

anyways, putting them on Ignore restores DU back to the way it used to be

[ProSense]

31. Money

"I feel less concern over their mental state when I think people are saying something head trauma level stupid because they are being paid to say it."

...is a powerful tool in some cases.

Howard Dean Has an Excuse. Allyson Schwartz Doesn’t.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023371917

What I find surprising is the attacks on other posters, but the defense of actions like Dean's.

[LondonReign2]

60. Oh FFS

Even in this thread you can't help but link to your own thread that has nothing to do with this topic.

[Fumesucker]

65. You may be ambassador to England or France

You might like to gamble, you might like to dance.

But you gonna have to serve somebody.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

40. x2

[Puglover]

42. Totally agree.

I find that idea lots less creepy then someone that posts 16 in 24, 7 days out of 7.

[RC]

68. +10

Yeah, that's gotta be it.

[Cha]

10. Skinner freaking nailed that

shit.

Mahalo Bevan

[sufrommich]

11. This is a perfect description of the silliness

regarding so called "paid shills", utter arrogance to believe your opinion is so righteous that only paid shills would disagree with it. Just one of the many conspiracy theories that get repeated here as "truth".

[Inkfreak]

55. +1...you're on a roll. (nt)

[backscatter712]

14. All you have to do is look at the posting patterns.

First, there's the sheer volume of posts - I'm pretty prolific, but I've got nothing on some of the smear-meisters who are throwing out dozens of posts a day - that suggests to me that they do this for a living.

Then, there are the patterns - sudden swarming of threads, the choice of topics they swarm, the repetitiveness of the posts, the deliberately circular argument style, filled with ad-hominems and baiting, designed to make threads go diagonal. There's the reinforcing back-slapping between the socks as an attempt to build false credibility. Then at times, they almost disappear completely, suggesting to me that either they're waiting for the new batch of talking points to come back from focus group testing, or they went home from work.

I'm sorry. I'm past writing this off as simple political disagreement, or even the amateur trolling of the Beavis-and-Buttheads from sites like the Cave. This is a professional operation, designed to disrupt discourse here on DU.

Sorry. I can't agree with Skinner on this. I think after watching forums like DU for a few years, I can spot astroturfing and deliberate disruption.

Skinner needs to throw the shills out.

[Cali_Democrat]

17. Let it go, dude

Just let it go.

Believe it or not, some people might actually disagree with you on an anonymous message board.

Shocking, isn't it?

[Puzzledtraveller]

43. I thought at first

what would it serve, what would it achieve, pay-off, as it would seem there would be no measurable result of a campaign, coordinated or not, paid or not to possibly direct influence, attention on issues. But it really could have an effect and in politics and pr the cost involved would be nothing compared to what it could influence. I recall poster that seems to only pop up when opinion on the ACA needs to be boosted. I was reminded more than once about the rebate check I am, or was supposed to get like it was a flipping commercial from Kathleen Sebilius. If it wasn't so frequent like you say Backscatter it would not cross peoples minds.

[Cali_Democrat]

15. Skinner is nothing more than a Paidpropagandiststasiauthoritariancorporatistquislingfascistsockpuppe

[JoePhilly]

20. %$#$% .... you beat me to it.

Clearly I needs a much faster processor if my computer generated messages are going to get posted before your computer generated messages.

[Cali_Democrat]

22. hahaha

[riqster]

28. If I got paid more, I could have posted faster!

[JoePhilly]

35. I'm ...

[JoePhilly]

36. Closing in ...

[JoePhilly]

37. on my ...

[JoePhilly]

38. 17k ...

[JoePhilly]

39. Bonus!!!!!!!!!!

[petronius]

27. Precisely! Are we really to believe it's a coincidence when he's away all weekend

(he claims he was "camping" ), and then leaps in to defend trolls and shills the second he comes back? I'll bet he had a comfortable bed at that NSA-Monsanto-CIA-Westinghouse-NRA-Boeing-GOP-GE-NBC-CNN-Nestlé-Yum!-WalMart 'training' seminar...

[CakeGrrl]

46. ...

All the latest, greatest memes from the shouting crowd in one fell swoop.

[oldhippie]

18. So, are we to surmise ......

... that paid shills do not exist on DU? Is that a fact?

[stevenleser]

67. The very fact that there are working class Republicans should show you that you are wrong

Unless you believe that there are no working class Republicans, and that we have somehow been hoodwinked to believe that such people exist, you have to accept the idea that there are people who hold views that do not make sense to your perception of reality.

They certainly do not make sense to mine.

There should be no working class Republicans. But there are. If they exist, how hard is it to believe that there are Democrats all across the spectrum who really believe what they say they believe?

[Scurrilous]

19. Bookmarked.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

23. One more time: it's called "Poisoning the well"

Said this when that totalitarian crap was first posted.

Defined: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well

It's a form of ad hominem attack. Should not be tolerated.

[backscatter712]

29. That's exactly what this is. Skinner needs to boot them. n/t

[flamingdem]

44. You mean posters like me? You just called me out as a troll

in another thread.

WTF is your problem?

[Benton D Struckcheon]

49. I guess we can call this one "The Karl Rove"

I just went back upthread to look at his post from up there where he disagreed w/Skinner. Weird. Well, to me, anyway.

[Cha]

57. I think Skinner said it all in the OP..

what the "problem" is..

1. This whole who-is-the-paid-shill witch hunt is disruptive nonsense.

It betrays an utter lack of creativity on the part of the people making the accusation. They are so convinced that they are right that they cannot imagine someone else might hold a different point of view in good faith. Either that or they are incapable of advocating for their own point of view on the merits.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1259&pid=2716

So glad that question was asked.. bet he wasn't expecting that answer.

[flamingdem]

63. Thanks Cha

He's right but if the rules aren't working they should be adjusted.

I don't see that this has happened with the jury system. That becomes yet another anonymous place where people get their ya yas!

When there is a rule like no call-outs a post shouldn't be juried. I've had several and none were hidden. So I post about that and it gets hidden. There are people as Skinner describes who are not honest, or creative actors. F' em!

[Puzzledtraveller]

32. I post for free

I offer little and pretty much just take up space here as this reply indicates.

[Rex]

33. I don't care either way, it won't change my opinion.

If someone wants to RAH RAH from the rooftops all day long, I don't really care. If someone wants to critique the POTUS all day long, nope don't care either. Won't change my opinion one way or the other.

Besides, obvious propaganda is well...obvious.

[Baitball Blogger]

34. I wish I had seen this fifteen minutes ago.

[OneGrassRoot]

58. I don't even know what that means, but it made me laugh out loud...

I am SO DENSE when it comes to the factions here at DU. I remain clueless about who posts what as far as a pattern, for the most part. Ignorance is bliss regarding this particular matter, I suppose.

[think]

47. Shills out themselves by their actions. There's no need to point fingers...

[Luminous Animal]

48. And this whole who-is-a-libertarian-troll witch hunt is disruptive nonsense.

[Puzzledtraveller]

51. +1

[Rex]

53. I would hope that too would be something Skinner would

say is ridiculous and just as bad.

[Luminous Animal]

61. Yep.

[quinnox]

56. +1000

yep

The "they must be stealth Paul-bots!" is the same thing.

[ProSense]

71. People attack threads calling out the Pauls by playing the victim.

People directly callout others as trolls and paid shills.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023358242#post19
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023087676

There is a huge difference. Your claim is a straw man.

[CakeGrrl]

54. It's telling how few recs this repost gets

You're taking the "fun" out of an increasingly used and increasingly tired tactic.

Bizarre to think that the only rejoinder to an opinion that's not in total alignment with someone's own makes them claim that the person must be getting paid.

There is no big tent here. It's more "Us" vs "Them" by the day, and the tent is shrinking.

[Cha]

62. Good Company though.. in those

who rec it.

Like Skinner said..

"It betrays an utter lack of creativity on the part of the people making the accusation. They are so convinced that they are right that they cannot imagine someone else might hold a different point of view in good faith. Either that or they are incapable of advocating for their own point of view on the merits"

[MisterP]

59. and we have to wait for the full story before defending Cynthia McKinney

[Wait Wut]

64. Thank you.

I read that this morning and wanted to send him a cake.

Not sure how he'll feel about this being posted, but it is important enough to take your chances with this. I'll back you up.

[TBF]

70. People do get paid to post on forums --

http://topbestlisted.blogspot.com/2011/08/top-10-best-paid-forum-posting-jobs-on.html

I don't know how this is done in the political arena but I would be very surprised if it's not happening. I can understand how Skinner would view it as disruptive nonsense, though, as it would be an incredibly hard thing to enforce.

[William769]

72. LOCKING.

If Skinner wanted it to have more exposure, he is certainly welcome to do so.