Resident shoots burglar during home invasion

[The Straight Story]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Violet_Crumble (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Resident shoots burglar during home invasion

A home invasion turned deadly when a resident shot and killed one of the burglars, according to a San Antonio Police Department report.

The incident occurred around 3 a.m. in the 10300 block of Sahara Drive on the city's North Side.

The resident, 21-year-old Dmitri Brown-Winfield was at the apartment with his fiancé and four of her nephews and nieces when three burglars came into the house.

According to Brown-Winfield, he had been cleaning the house when his fiancé told him there were three people at the door. After she warned him not to open the door, the suspects kicked open the door.

One of the suspects threw Brown-Winfield onto a bed and held him by the neck, he said. After two suspects left the house, Brown-Winfield was then able to grab his pistol and fired multiple shots at the last intruder inside the house.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Resident-shoots-burglar-during-home-invasion-4694987.php

[NYC_SKP]

1. Fucking home invasions. They are frightening.

I'm glad that the victims weren't physically harmed or killed.

[The Straight Story]

3. We have had those here in my hood

Earlier this year someone kicked in the door of my neighbor (not a really bright guy and prison is his second home....so not too shocking) and there was a group of people trying to fight him and his kids (who are in their mid to late teens).

We have had many break ins around here (mostly abandoned homes, but not always). And the cops do *nothing*. Literally. I have gotten plate numbers, descriptions, etc and so on.

Folks here are on their own mostly. I don't own a gun but keep a knife around and a stick. My dad has a few guns in his room (and a CCW).

If you wait on the cops it is too late.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

43. The abandoned homes in my area are also attracting criminals. When they are no longer

satisfied with the empty homes, they are then burglarizing houses while homeowners are on vacation or otherwise out of the area.

This must be happening nationwide.

[Mojorabbit]

14. In the news here a lot lately. It seemed like they became rare and are coming back. nt

[donco]

2. Good for him

too bad he couldn't get a few rounds off at the other two.

[kcr]

4. Still not worth it.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/05/31/trenton_mathis_accidental_shooting_another_day_another_accidental_child.html

[tumtum]

5. What's not worth it?

Defending you and your loved ones lives? Really?
You go ahead and sit passively by, I'll defend myself and family with force, lethal force if necessary.

[kcr]

6. Yep. Sit passively by knowing

there isn't guns in my house every single day. Because I know how to asses risk. Also the same reason I don't buy lottery tickets. I don't watch the people on TV with the big checks and think "That will be me!"

[The Straight Story]

8. So you don't trust yourself?

I don't own a gun either right now (did at one point in my past for work).

Kids drown in pools at the same rate or higher than they are killed by guns in the home. And getting rid of pools is not the answer.

What do you think could be done to make things better? And I mean that seriously. I am open to discuss solutions.

[kcr]

12. I don't think that getting rid of guns is the answer

I think advocating for people keeping guns for self defense is idiotic.

[tumtum]

9. Your choice,

mine is to not be a sheep in the event I need to defend myself.

[kcr]

11. I'm a sheep and my kids are alive.

So I win.

[Pelican]

81. Umm... the odds are pretty good that tum's kids are also alive and kicking...

[kcr]

83. Missing the point. n/t

[Pelican]

90. What was it then?

Seemed like you were comparing live children...

[NewThinkingChance40]

7. I have seen a lot of these stories but...

no real solutions offered. What should be done? Obviously the gun in the story was left unsecured, and loaded, which is negligence. Kids do not know better, especially at that age, and it is a sad story. However, the real question is, what does it have to do with gun violence? Kids also fall into pools, off of trees, and get hit by cars. What should we do to stop that? We live in a world that is far from bubble wrapped, and the sad truth is, that sometimes you have to defend yourself using lethal means. If you have a way to stop senseless deaths, I would love to hear it.

[kcr]

10. It's all about assessing risk

Really what it's all about is not buying the fear mongering that's about selling guns. Because the guns have to lie around in your house unsecured every single day to be worth anything, all in the very off chance that they might be of use of self defense. What are the odds someone will actually invade your home? The risk is likely inflated in your mimd by watching the evening news, as well as those pushing an agenda repeatedly posting stories. In lying around unsecured, they will be much more likely to end up becoming an unfortunate tragic accident if anything happens at all. Not worth the risk. Things like pools are also require risk assesment. Everything does. Driving to work every day. But there are tradeoffs. Not all risks are weighted the same. You can't wrap up everyone in a bubble. But not all risks are worth taking.

[NewThinkingChance40]

13. The risk of being killed by a terrorist

is less than getting hit by lightning, and yet we take great measures to avoid this. It is about peace of mind, it is the individual responsibility to secure the gun, and we need to educate people on doing this, not punish people who make the right decisions.

[kcr]

15. What measures are taken to prevent lightening?

At any rate, I don't do anything personally to really prevent terrorist attacks, either. The only time I really encounter anti-terrorism measures really is when I fly, I guess, and that's not something I personally choose. I think that's theatre meant to make us feel better, honestly. It's political. And if having a gun is just about peace of mind? That's pretty foolish, to endanger ones family that way. ETA I"m not sure I follow you about punishing people

[The Straight Story]

20. Will ask you the same thing I have been asking others and no one answers

What do you think should be done to prevent such things?

[kcr]

21. Prevent what things? n/t

[The Straight Story]

23. crimes involving guns (nt)

[kcr]

27. The biggest thing that would help

would be to get rid of the NRA and their influence but that isn't happening. I think the genie left the bottle long ago. There are too many guns now. It isn't a problem that can be easily solved quickly.

[The Straight Story]

31. Ok, well thanks for actually answering when so many didn't :)

I don't like the NRA either. Don't own a gun.

Less than 1% with guns use them to hurt others. I am all for focusing on them and solutions, but not at the expense of the 99% who don't use them in a bad way.

[kcr]

33. Yay for the people who don't use guns in bad ways

But enough with the unnecessary gun culture. There's no reason to fill up homes with guns lying around. A loaded gun at every bedstand is a recipe for disaster, good guys with guns or no.

[The Straight Story]

36. Ok, explain to me what you think 'gun culture' means

I know many people who own guns - for hunting, sport shooting, and folks like my dad who grew up using guns as a tool for everyday life.

[kcr]

48. I grew up in a hunting family.

By gun culture I mean the NRA basically. The one that pushes gun sales.

[The Straight Story]

52. OK...

I don't have anything against gun sales to people, like you, me, etc, who want to buy them.

I don't like the NRA (for many reasons). I used to work in the gun reloading industry and I don't see the problem with gun sales and such.

People have hobbies, shooting is one of them.

http://www.ncaa.com/sports/rifle/d1

I don't think the women shooters in the NCAA are dangerous. Are you afraid of them?

[kcr]

57. I personally don't want to buy any because like I said, I have a family

and I honestly didn't inherit quite the enthusiasm. But my dad is a hunter, and I don't see why he should have to lose his guns. I'm not the the hobbiest. I'm really anti NRA, like I said. I honestly think they've done more to hurt those who love guns than anyone anti-gun. They've created this mess.

[The Straight Story]

63. Ok, cool - we can agree

that the NRA sucks ass

I don't think all gun owners do of course, and I can see why some side with the nra because they keep getting attacked and the nra sides with them.

People will favor those who side with them. I side with gun owners because I don't believe they are bad people. If we could get more on the left to see that we could get more such people on our side instead of running to the one place they know they won't be attacked- the nra.

We can, and should have a left wing version of the NRA that cares about the avg citizen and their rights when it comes to guns and at the same time is finding ways to keep guns out of the hands of idiots and criminals.

That won't happen as long as we paint them all as crazy gun humping jackholes who are out to kill everyone.

[kcr]

65. The problem is, the crazy gun humping jackholes are so loud

And the NRA is even louder. There is such a pushback against common sense gun laws. And they were successful. So people are just a little bit bitter.

[The Straight Story]

69. Give me an example of a common sense gun law that would prevent

some of the things we have seen talked about here and elsewhere.

[kcr]

74. Oh. I see.

I pushed your button with common sense law, didn't I? Don't like that, do you? Don't like laws reqiring driver's license or laws that require fences around pools either?

[NewThinkingChance40]

26. Talking about preventing terrorism, not lightning.

And, punishing people by taking away guns from people who are doing the right thing and securing them. Not every person who owns a gun is going to secure it properly statistically. So that means to prevent things like kids getting ahold of them, we would have to remove them from every household. It is not endangering your family by having a gun in your house if it is stored properly and everyone in the house knows about it and how to properly use it and store it. That goes back to education. The point of the matter is, that owning a gun makes some people feel safer, due to the nature of criminals and news reports. There is nothing wrong with peace of mind.

[kcr]

37. I know it's a kneejerk thought to think that anyone who says boo about guns

just wants them all taken away, but I do not believe I said anything about taking guns away. I object to the arm America, self defense with guns is the best defense argument. I was just being a grammar snark with the lightening thing. There is indeed something wrong with peace of mind if it's a false peace of mind that really brings only more risk.

[NewThinkingChance40]

45. I understand, but...

you aren't putting forth a solution, just stating that you don't like guns for home defense. So you can see where it can get confusing. What other reason would you put forth, if you are not against taking guns out of homes, as to keeping a handgun in the home. Not for hunting obviously, so why then?

[kcr]

49. I'm not putting forth a solution?

How about let's not push guns merely for home protection? Those who have a genuine interest in guns for hunting, etc? Why can't that be enough? ETA you mention proper safety training and the like. Who do you htin is more likely to be properly trained and, more importantly, to maintain that training? A person with geunine interest in guns who enjoys shooting and hutning? Or a nervous nelly who watches the news and buys one, maybe takes one course and throws it in the drawer?

I would add that if it had been kept to that, we wouldn't be having the issues we have now, with near the push for banning. But no. Profits, more sales, etc. And now, here we are!

[NewThinkingChance40]

58. but who buys a handgun

simply for shooting at a range? It may be that people buy the guns under false pre-tense of protection, however people do things all the time to keep safe from dangers that are not likely to befall them. You have smoke detectors in your house to warn of a fire, even though statistically, your house probably won't burn down in your lifetime. Smoke detectors don't hurt anyone, but the idea of safety is the same. It is a psychological need people have, the "just in case" mentality. Having control over the situation, makes people FEEL safer. Which is what it is all about. No, most people are not going to ever have to face a break in, but it makes them FEEL safer knowing they have a way to defend themselves. The best thing we can do, knowing the psychology of how people think, is to train them to be safe with the weapon.

[kcr]

62. But that smoke detector isn't going to accidentally kill you.

It poses no risk to you, so there's no risk/benefit analysis to be done, there. The idea of safety is not the same. It just isn't. If there were a greater chance the smoke detector could hurt you, well, then it would be a good idea to reassess the decision.

It is indeed a psychological need that people have. Which is why it is beyond egregious that the gun lobby along with the NRA has exploited that need. Like I said in another post. Who is more likely to train safely with that weapon. An enthusiast? Or someone who impulsively bought that weapon because of that human psychological need?

[NewThinkingChance40]

66. How about this

a man who lives 2 houses down from me was shot last summer by a man who was trying to rob the guys wife. This caused another neighbor to purchase a gun, not because the NRA told him to, but because he feared for his family. Is this guy not allowed to have a gun because he is not an enthusiast? He had legitimate concerns, and bought a gun. He had never owned one before, but took the steps to actually learn about it, how to clean, store and properly use his gun. Not everyone who purchases a gun for self defense does so because the NRA told them too.

[kcr]

71. I know. My neighbor's kid was shot dead right in front of my house.

I heard the shots and saw his body. I didn't want to run out and get a gun, but I wanted to move. That day. I'm not saying all people rush out and get a gun because of the NRA. I'm not saying no one should ever be allowed to have a gun. What I'm saying is, it's a bad policy to push guns as self defense. It's obviously not just the NRA but they're the big, public pushers for this. I'm responding to threads that are doing it. I understand your neighbor's reaction as I know just what it's like to go through that. It's terrifying. Just thinking about it right now, the thrill of terror comes right back to me. ETA these experiences are a big reason why I have the feelings I do. My neighborhood declined quite a bit in the time I lived there. My house was broken into once, and I think they were looking for guns. They probably assumed we had them for protection after the kid was shot in front of our house. They were disappointed.

[NewThinkingChance40]

73. So your problem isnot with guns

so much. It is more pointed at the NRA. I can agree with that, as I believe they lobby too much for giving guns to everyone(including violent criminals if it helps them out).

[kcr]

75. That's pretty much it

Their lobby is crazy powerful and has done much damage to this country IMO.

[Skittles]

87. the NRA wants everyone armed and paranoid

and they doing a FINE job

[beevul]

34. ...

[kcr]

40. That doesn't prevent lightening

The lightening still happens :p

[beevul]

50. Touche

Though I would argue that it prevents lightning in certain areas - namely those in a close enough proximity to my house that would cause a fire.

Either way...its still something I'd rather have and not need, than need and not have.

That sort of thinking is a necessary thing when one lives rural...to one degree or another.

[Mojorabbit]

16. Ask the people who's homes were invaded. nt

[kcr]

17. Still doesn't change the fact the odds of it happening are slim.

Sorry. I'm not going to buy a lottery ticket because I saw some one win one on TV either, and I'm sure they're thrilled and would highly recommend it.

[Mojorabbit]

22. Increase in home invasions where I live so risk higher

Other cities or towns may have none happen. It is more complicated than just averages.

[kcr]

25. They were increasing where I lived, also

It isn't that I don't understand the fear. I'm just against guns as a protection measure, and the marketing of such, especially by the NRA makes my stomach turn. And it usually isn't people who live in such neighborhoods that buy it, fwiw. It always seems like people who live in safer, cushier neighborhoods that want them the most. It's nuts. The more people who buy guns, the more saturated homes become with guns in them, it actually increases the incentive for break ins. In poorer neighborhoods they could be the more valuable items in the home. It just isn't a good idea. I actually feel like it's almost a bigger issue to speak out against that assault weapons.

[NewThinkingChance40]

29. If people are properly trained and comfortable using them

it actually decreases the chance of you being robbed and having your home broken into if the criminal knows you have a gun. They want easy targets, and someone shooting at them is not an easy target. By your logic, having a TV in your home in a poor neighborhood increases your chances of being robbed, so poor people shouldn't have TVs either.

[kcr]

32. So, you never have guests over?

I'm sorry, but that whole argument of "You're just not properly trained and comfortable using them" is horse shit. Utter horse shit. You can comfort yourself with the myth that accidents only happen to people who weren't properly trained if it makes you feel better. I'll sleep better at night known my family and friends aren't going to become another statistic, with certainty.

[NewThinkingChance40]

35. Statistics are on my side here

people who are properly trained are less likely to have accidents. That is just the way it is. If you have guests over, have it locked up. Store the ammo separate from the gun, and keep it all locked up. It is really that easy. You don't have to have a gun if you don't feel comfortable around them, that is your choice, I am only saying, dont attack others who have different preferences.

[kcr]

46. Less likely. But still more likely than a home invasion.

Sorry. And I'm not attacking. If you don't want to hear the opposite viewpoint, I'm sure there are gun websites you can go to

[NewThinkingChance40]

51. I would love to hear an idea

for how to fix the problem, rather than just stating that kids get shot by guns. Opposing viewpoints are ok, but I love solutions more. What can be done to keep accidents from happening that doesn't involve removing guns from homes? I put forth my ideas, I want to hear yours.

[kcr]

55. I'd start with putting a muzzle on the NRA

and the people who keep pushing guns on those who aren't enthusiasts. Like I just said in the last post. It's more of a long term solution, but I think it would help. I think people who are enthusiasts and aren't just interested in sellig more guns shoudl back this solution.

[NewThinkingChance40]

61. I agree on that point

we should keep the NRA lobbyists out of the gun control debate. But the issue is more of dealing with people who already feel the need for the security. If they choose to purchase a gun, they need proper education and they need to know how to properly store it to keep these incidents from happening.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

70. It seems that no real solutions are ever offered by gun controllers. In contrast, here's five:

1) Economic reform.

2) Increase prison time for criminals caught using firearms in their criminal activities. Separate gun-using criminals from guns in a real way by keeping them locked up longer.

3) Adopt universal mental-health care. The passage of the ACA, with penalties for those who don't purchase health insurance, is not a good alternative for universal mental-health care.

4) Stop demonizing people who choose to own firearms for lawful purposes such as deterring some criminals from engaging home invasions. Seek cooperation instead of alienation.

5) Drop the strategy which contributed to the loss of 58 seats in the House in 1994, and contributed to the shift of the control of Congress to the Republicans for the first time since 1954. Voters who own firearms for lawful purposes don't like it, including Democrats and Independents.


But these solutions will not be appreciated by Republican sock puppets nor people who are otherwise emotionally involved with responding to phrases such as "assault weapon," "automatic rifle," and variations on "It's for the children."

[NewThinkingChance40]

72. Thank you

for posting some real strategies. It is nice to see some good ideas out there. I do wonder about the mental healthcare angle somewhat, whereas do you mean that people with mental health history cannot own a gun, or just that they would have to go through some tough testing to be cleared? The reason I ask, is that I am a veteran who at one point was treated for PTSD, and do not think that should bar me from owning a weapon. I went through a lot of counseling, but was able to recover and get back to mostly normal.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

77. IMO, it is counter-productive to automatically bar those who seek help for

mental-health problems, no matter what the problems are, from owning firearms.

Universal mental-health care should be provided. A case-by-case approach with respect to gun ownership should be used based upon objective evidence.

I don't have solutions for all problems. But if there is any better way to discourage vets with PTSD from seeking mental health care than to let them known that any effort to seek such care will automatically bar them from owning firearms, I don't know what it is.

[NewThinkingChance40]

80. Very understandable

I would not want to do anything to hurt my chances of owning a gun as I love to hunt. I agree with the case by case basis, as two people with the same mental health issue can have drastically different results to treatment.

[kcr]

76. The problem is the powerful NRA lobby coupled with our political system

It's pretty hard to offer up real solutions faced with that. It's been a right steamroll. It's nonsense that those strategies contributed to those losses.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

79. The NRA did not become a powerful lobby until the over-reach of the AWB.

Wayne LaPierre was not even an influential member of the NRA, and was not even a Republican until the AWB.

Prior to then, he was a highly active Democrat working for a Democratic politician.

[kcr]

82. Oh, of course, the don't fight you'll lose argument.

They had to turn into big old bullies, you see? Just roll over and take it. Bullshit. They were growing in strength long before then.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

84. "no real solutions offered." Wanna bet?

[NewThinkingChance40]

85. That is awesome

dogs do offer quite a bit of security...even those that just want to lick the intruder to death

[kcr]

86. Yep and it can be any dog. Don't laugh, but my chihuahua is actually quite effective.

She barks at the slightest little noise, so I've always known whenever anyone was anywhere near the house. I never had a single problem since we got her. I think criminals want the quickest and easiest way in and out. So it doesn't have to be the biggest and meanest dog. Any dog who will alert can work.

[NewThinkingChance40]

89. Hey chihuahuas can be really mean :)

Though their bark tends to be louder than their bite.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

44. If more children die from auto accidents, something should be done about all those cars.

[kcr]

78. Huh.

I missed the memo where all those speeding limit laws, seat belt laws, child safety seats, drunk driving laws being repealed, seems that would have made big news. Federal Regulations on automakers for safety measures gone, really? That's amazing. You mean you don't need a driver's license anymore? Gosh. That pro-car lobby really followed through on their promises. The car-grabbers can suck it.

[rdharma]

18. What's this guy doing with a gun? He has priors.

"Brown-Winfield (the shooter) has a prior criminal record that includes assault and drug possession charges."

21 year old guy cleaning up his 49 year old fiancé's apartment at 3 am when three "unknown" intruders break in. Did I get that right?

I wonder what they took?

Does this even pass the smell test?

But this is Texas .......so he'll probably walk.

[NYC_SKP]

19. He has "charges". Unless there are convictions then he has a right to be armed.

I was wondering how long it would take for a reply to come along that would blame the victim.

And then, "bang", there it was.

[The Straight Story]

24. Yeah, I am not shocked either :) (nt)

[rdharma]

30. The keyword is "record"

You don't have a "criminal record" unless you've been convicted!

Blaming the "victim"? Don't be so silly!

[NYC_SKP]

38. One can have a record of arrests without convictions.

If he had convictions, then they would have written convictions.

Brown-Winfield has a prior criminal record that includes assault and drug possession charges.

A spokesman for the San Antonio Police Department said that at this point in time, it does not seem like Brown-Winfield would face any charges for shooting the intruder. Police also have not determined a motive for the home invasion, he added.

Sloppy journalism, you must agree.

In any event, there's no indication that he's ever been convicted of a crime.

[rdharma]

53. Prior "criminal record" NOT "arrest record"

A difference in terminology that could get a newspaper sued. But they reported it accurately.

[NYC_SKP]

60. They identified the dead home invader dude.

The Bexar County medical examiner's office has released the name of the man shot and killed after allegedly invading a North Side home Tuesday.

Rashad Wilson, 23, and two unidentified persons invaded the home of Dmitri Brown, 21, and his fiancée, Evangeline Tubig, 49, at 3 a.m., according to a police report.

Both were held by the neck as their apartment was robbed, with four children — nieces and nephews — present.

Brown was able to get his gun as the robbers fled and shot at Wilson, according to police. He pursued the other intruders and fired several shots, but they escaped in a car, police said.

Also had a criminal record, but not all offenses, even where there are convictions, ban one's ability to legally possess a weapon.

[NewThinkingChance40]

42. As bad at it may smell

being up at 3am doesn't mean anything wrong was going on. Assuming guilt on the part of the guy in the house is not the best answer here. There may have been more going on, but given the information in the article, we should not assume anything. Motive may be questionable, but that does not mean he was not truly defending himself.

[Loudly]

28. Point goes to the pro-gun side ONLY IF

the home invaders were not emboldened to bust in because they themselves also had a gun among them.

[The Straight Story]

41. We go by points now? (nt)

[Loudly]

56. Sure do, why else post the story?

The poster thinks it scores a point in favor of gun love.

And I'm willing to cede that point BUT ONLY IF a gun did not embolden the crime to begin with.

[The Straight Story]

59. Ah, not points - but balance

Guns can be used in both good and bad ways.

We have laws to punish those who use them in bad ways.

And we have folks who want to punish everyone with a gun when the very few use them in such a way.

So when someone doesn't (which happens about 50 million times a day, literally) and someone posts about it the idea is simply to highlight the basic fact that the majority of gun owners are not crazy folks out to shoot people.

There are some who want to paint the many based on the actions of the few - and for some reason those very people get upset when something is posted that does not adhere to their bias.

As I have said before, it all reminds me of how the RW likes to use the actions of a few who choose to be Muslim and blame the many and spread fear (and hate).

[Loudly]

64. "Laws to punish those who use them in bad ways."

What do such laws do for the dead and permanently injured and their families?

I'd appreciate it better if you didn't mock justice so.

[The Straight Story]

67. Well

What do such laws do for the dead and permanently injured and their families when it comes to drinking and driving?

Anyone can buy alcohol. Get in a car. And kill others.

Now is the problem the alcohol? And if so, what do you propose as a solution to stop this from happening?

What is your solution to curbing crimes that involve guns? Reducing poverty, removing drugs and alcohol, etc?

[rdharma]

39. Drugs where probably a motive for "invasion" nt

[The Straight Story]

47. Interesting theory, would you like to explain it? (nt)

[AnotherMcIntosh]

54. The author of the headline is wrong. The criminals who kicked in the door were home invaders, not

burglars.

The resident shot a home invader, not a burglar.

As explained by Wikipedia:

"Home invasion differs from burglary in that its perpetrators have a violent intent apart from the unlawful entry itself, specific or general, much the same way as aggravated robbery—personally taking from someone by force—is differentiated from mere larceny (theft alone). As the term becomes more frequently used, particularly by the media, "home invasion" is evolving to identify a particular class of crime that involves multiple perpetrators (two or more); forced entry into a home;[14] occupants who are home at the time of the invasion; use of weapons and physical intimidation; property theft; and victims who are unknown to the perpetrators.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_invasion

[rdharma]

68. No. The newspaper is correct...burglary.

That would be the criminal charge.

[Niceguy1]

91. texas has

Hone invasion, First, second, and third degree.

[Niceguy1]

88. one less predator

Walking around. Too bad the family had to be victimized.

[Violet_Crumble]

92. Locking. Local gun crime stories aren't allowed in GD...

From Skinner's big news exceptions post

The ongoing national debate over gun laws that has occurred since Sandy Hook is big news; discussion of gun control and related issues is currently permitted in GD. Gun porn, local gun-crime stories, and other narrowly-focused gun topics are not permitted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022542300