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HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
Mon Aug 5, 2013, 05:07 AM Aug 2013

Marxism vs social democracy

One oddity of this blog is that it is often better-regarded by righties than by lefties. One reason for this, I suspect, is that we Marxists are as sceptical about social democracy as rightists, albeit in different ways...

Perhaps the biggest difference concerns the role of the state. Social democrats seem to think leftist objectives can be achieved to at least some degree if only Labour could win control of the state and show the courage of its convictions. Marxists are more sceptical. We think the state is captured by capitalist interests either directly, through cronyism, or indirectly because governments must maintain business "confidence"... In similar vein, whereas social democrats are apt to see social change as being implementable by government, we Marxists conceive of it differently, as the complex outcome of interactions between technology and social norms.

Other significant differences are:

- Social democrats take voters' preferences for granted, and see politics as a marketing exercise, trying to appeal to these preferences. Marxists, by contrast, ask how such preferences are formed, and fear they are biased to be supportive of capitalism...

- Social democrats are sympathetic to managerialism. The belief that the state can be run beneficially by the man in Whitehall is a natural accompaniment to the belief that companies can be run by bosses. However, we Marxists see managers' claim to expertise as being an ideological front, a justification for inequalities of wealth and power.

- Social democrats often regard their opponents simply as moral or intellectual defectives. Marxists don't.

- Social democrats, more than Marxists, follow the day-to-day agenda of politics, as set by the media and political class. Marxists, by contrast, are interested in what isn't on the agenda, questions such as: Is top-down management really the best way of organzing firms? Can there be full employment and if so how? Is there a case for basic income?

- Social democrats tend to blame our current woes upon austerity and the banking crisis. Marxists fear these are symptoms of a deeper malaise within global capitalism...

In these senses, thinking of politics in left-right terms is misleading; Marxism is not simply an "extreme" form of leftism, but rather is in many ways qualitatively different.

There's something else to note here. Although Marxists are sometimes seen as spittle-flecked fanatics (an impression some don't break their backs to reject), the actual temper of Marxists - or at least this one - is of cool-headed scepticism.

http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbling/2013/08/marxism-vs-social-democracy.html

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adirondacker

(2,921 posts)
1. Much too tired to comment about the theory, but look forward to the debate on an interesting topic.
Mon Aug 5, 2013, 05:17 AM
Aug 2013

Thanks for bringing it up!

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
2. I agree with many things this blogger has to say
Mon Aug 5, 2013, 07:11 AM
Aug 2013

But I think the real difference between Marxists and social democrats is the role of regulation.

Social democrats think they can regulate capitalist corporation enough to keep them from destroying the economy. Marxists know that capitalist will use their power to circumvent any and all regulations.

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
6. I don't know if it's the biggest difference, but......
Mon Aug 5, 2013, 09:04 AM
Aug 2013

that's definitely ONE of the biggest difference.

I think that the biggest difference is that Marxists need some sort of objective proof to support their assertions, whereas SDs tend to use the Keynesian "animal spirits" or some sort of "great man" or "great movements" ideas to support their positions.

Agony

(2,605 posts)
3. Much to consider, cooperatives as a business model for example...
Mon Aug 5, 2013, 07:40 AM
Aug 2013

reading Richard Wolff as he presents this in his Cure for Capitalism. I did not realize that I already do business with several cooperatives (was not thinking in those terms). These are well run successful businesses.

Thx for this post to consider.
Agony

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
4. I don't consider myself a Marxist (beyond the Groucho Marxist variety)
Mon Aug 5, 2013, 08:25 AM
Aug 2013

But I agree with a lot of what's written here, especially:


We think the state is captured by capitalist interests either directly, through cronyism, or indirectly because governments must maintain business "confidence"...

Junkdrawer

(27,993 posts)
5. There's been a sustained campaign to rollback socialism and democracy in America....
Mon Aug 5, 2013, 08:27 AM
Aug 2013

Now we see that the contradictions of Capitalism are in full bloom.

BUT that's not the fault of socialism and democracy. It just underlines their necessity.

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