@ggreenwald: Would the WH prefer mass, indiscriminate, bulk, unvetted simultaneous disclosure?

[dkf]

@ggreenwald: Would the WH prefer mass, indiscriminate, bulk, unvetted simultaneous disclosure? https://t.co/7zXQtVqwQi

[uponit7771]

1. This is asinine on its face, greenwald is a damn joke

[ProSense]

3. It's not about Greenwald!!!

[chimpymustgo]

57. It's about our surveillance state, and a President still lying about it. Please read:

NYT analysis and comments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/10/us/politics/obama-news-conference.html?_r=0#commentsContainer

-edit-

Socrates
Downtown Verona NJ

What this long overdue Presidential action formally confirms is that Ed Snowden committed an act of patriotism, not an act of treason.

After confirming Mr. Snowden's full exoneration, James Clapper's indictment for perjury and Mr. Snowden's welcome home parade down the canyon of federal hypocrisy, the President should appoint Ed Snowden as the chairman of the new high-level task force of outside intelligence and civil liberties specialists to advise the government about how to balance security and privacy.

Anything less will just be embarrassing government window dressing.

Aug. 9, 2013 at 3:30 p.m.
Reply
You recommended this287

RHE
NJ, USA

NYT Pick

Insufficient. Inadequate. Next to nothing.

NSA violations of the Fourth Amendment and other NSA crimes need to be ended, not merely touched up or toned down.

NSA officials, NSA contractors, and Bush-Administration and Obama-Administration officials who assented to NSA crimes--including Bush himself and Obama himself--need to be held accountable.

Until Snowden is pardoned, Clapper is prosecuted, and the NSA is defunded (or at least defanged), there will be no "public confidence that the programs do not intrude too far into Americans’ privacy" to "bolster."

Aug. 9, 2013 at 3:23 p.m.
Reply
You recommended this284

Nick Metrowsky
Longmont Colorado
Verified

I have a far more simple solution; repeal the Patriot Act. This Act was written under the duress of paranoia. It created a more intrusive government and it has weaken various rights enshrined in the US Constitution.

Appoint a special task force is as much as smoke and mirrors, as the Supreme court overseeing the "FISA Secret court" system. And special reports and white papers are not worth the paper they are printed on.

Effectively, President Obama is trying to convince the American people that trampling on their rights and freedoms is some how good for them. And we should truest him, the nations leaders and the government; for they know best.

Where have we heard this before? History shows a number of dictators and despots saying the same thing. Trust the government? We might as well just say, just turn on the tele-screen; all other aspects of the Big Brother society are mostly in place already.

Aug. 9, 2013 at 3:25 p.m.
Reply
Recommend272

Steven
Eugene, Oregon

Flag

It ought to be deeply embarrassing to the administration to endorse a need for reforms which would not have come to light at all save for a citizen whom, as a result of his efforts, they have cast as a traitor and rendered a fugitive from the country his actions clearly served.

This seems a clear admission that Edward Snowden's efforts amount to civil disobedience (acts that are illegal but ultimately in the service of the good) of the highest order.

-edit-

[Maedhros]

22. You do, of course, recall the chorus of damnation directed toward Manning

for dumping all of his information at once.

It seems y'all forget that when you criticize Greenwald for releasing Snowden's information bit-by-bit.

Pick one.

[Summer Hathaway]

29. For the record

no one 'directed damnation' at Manning because he dumped all of his information at once. The criticism was directed at the fact that he 'dumped' hundreds of thousands of documents that he could not possibly have vetted before disclosing them. Ergo, he had no way of knowing what it was he was exposing - but did it anyway.

Greenwald, on the other hand, claims to have information that is 'vital' to the American citizenry, and the world at large - which he is anxious to impart, as soon as people shell out money for his upcoming book.

There is a difference -- see it now?

Good, I knew you could figure that one out.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

35. Ah, so you would prefer they carry on with their careful analysis before publishing

Gotcha

[Summer Hathaway]

37. I'm sure GG's "careful analysis"

will require all the time between now and when his book hits the stores.

And Snowden, of course, is no longer in a position to have any say in the matter.

How unfortunate for poor Snowden - and how convenient for GG.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

43. I'll take that as a yes

[Summer Hathaway]

44. Well, obviously 'yes'

Yes, GG is a self-serving opportunist who plans to make money from what he has, and will 'carefully review it' until he has enough fodder for a book.

And, yes, Snowden is in a place where he cannot interfere with GG's money-making pursuits.

I'm so glad we got that all cleared up.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

49. lol

[Summer Hathaway]

51. Ya know ...

Call me psychic, but I figured that "LOL" would be your only possible response.

It is meaningless, childish, and required zero thought - which is why I knew it would be your reply.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

52. Sorry, but that's my normal reaction to smear campaigns

sue me

[Summer Hathaway]

54. Sue you for what?

For responding to everything with an "LOL"?

Last time I checked, that kind of idiocy is merely annoying - but not subject to litigation.

[Maedhros]

45. Vetting the information takes time.

Hence, it's not coming out all at once. That seems reasonable to me.

[Summer Hathaway]

48. GG has announced his new book not being available

until next spring.

Hence, it's not coming out all at once.

I predict that the next seven months will be chock full of "vague but tantalizing tidbits", to be sparingly doled out until GG's book is launched.

It's kind of like those teaser trailers you see for a movie that, despite its fanfare, turns out to be a dud. But the suckers will pay to see it anyway.

[JDPriestly]

24. Actually, Greenwald is getting the last laugh and will continue to get the last laugh.

The President needs to stop thinking he can fool us at this point. He has been caught as has the NSA. Lies. Lies. Lies. And not from Greenwald. From the President -- over and over. Just the metadata, he assured us. Then the plucked and pulled metadata begins to take a very different shape right before our eyes.

Of course, my personal thought (maybe wishful thinking because I like Obama) is that the president is being lied to and simply repeating the lies told to him. That's the way it works in a lot of big organizations. And the US government is one huge organization.

[ProSense]

25. Please, Greenwald isn't laughing, he's scrambling. n/t

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

36. That definitely comes across as lol

But some think that Colbert is playing it straight, so there is no account for some's perceptions.

[Summer Hathaway]

53. And yet another

LOL in lieu of a response that makes any sense.

You're on a roll with your LOL's tonight - too bad you've got nothing of substance to say.

[uponit7771]

68. WRONG, people are laughing AT Greenwald ... he'll sell a book and Paulians will buy it along

...with bashers

[Autumn]

2. LOL

oh and here's a rec

[Cali_Democrat]

4. Greenwald?

So when is his book coming out?

[morningfog]

7. Spring of 2014, I think.

[Cali_Democrat]

8. Funny how he's trying to cash in on all this

[morningfog]

9. Yet that does not change the NSA's programs.

[uponit7771]

14. Changes the integrity of their claims which MOST of the NSA hub bub hinges on, the claimes

...of a paulian and a basher

[morningfog]

15. Yet, that still does not change the NSA programs.

Which now, thanks to Snowden, Obama is trying to "reform."

[uponit7771]

16. Link to Obama reforming the NSA programs

[morningfog]

17. *Trying* to reform.

From today's presser:

Obama began the news conference by announcing a series of reforms meant to increase the transparency of, and the constraints on, the National Security Agency’s surveillance programs. They included reforms to Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which enables the collection of telephone metadata; changes to the powerful surveillance courts to ensure ”that the government’s position is challenged by an adversary”; declassification of key NSA documents; and the formation of “a high-level group of outside experts to review our entire intelligence and communications technologies.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/08/09/edward-snowden-patriot/

[Th1onein]

20. Unfortunately, those claims are backed up by ANOTHER whistleblower now.

And Wyden, and Drake, etc., etc., etc.

Sorry, you FAIL. The cat is out of the bag and Obama is going to have to deal with it, or it's going to be his legacy.

[Maedhros]

46. Their self-reinforcing pack-like behavior on these threads has passed the "forum post" stage

and has become full-blown performance art. It's like the Onion is parodying a political discussion forum.

[burnodo]

12. cash in?

On government spying under the gentle tutelage of Barack Obama? The Democrat who lied when he told Jay Leno no one is spying on Americans though his speech today belies that?

[Amonester]

19. *They* didn't *tell* him the *truth* before he went to Leno's.

You think *they* tell him everything *they* do?

[ljm2002]

30. It's downright scandalous...

...for a reporter and writer to actually write about stuff -- and get PAID for it!



Did Woodward and Bernstein "cash in" when they wrote "All The President's Men"?

Whether you approve of how this all happened, Greenwald was handed a very, very big story by Edward Snowden. Regardless of what side of the question one takes on the matter, it seems weird to fault him for writing a book about it.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

39. ^^^ THIS ^^^

The lame reasoning that some try to pass off as actual "argument" is down right ludicrous.

But I always say that one should never interfere with someone in the process of hoisting themselves on their own collective pertards.

[Maedhros]

67. I went round-and-round with one of the Hyena Pack about this.

They kept insisting Glenn wasn't a "writer" despite all the books he's published. It was truly a bizarre hill for them to choose to die on.

[noise]

31. Hilarious

Is it ok for the government and contractors to collude in massive spying programs which cost hundreds of millions of dollars? Or is that patriotic profiteering?

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

38. I think he's a bit busy right now reporting on the biggest story of the century

Right now anyways... Maybe late next year, would be my guess.

We'll just have to wait and see I suppose.

[morningfog]

5. Ha! I bet they would. Then they would know the limits of what is known and

lie around that. This slow drip is perfect for busting lie after lie.

[JDPriestly]

27. It's like a painfully slow pas de deux, Obama doing a plie and Greenwald following behind him.

a shadowing clown ultimately causing the audience to anticipate the clown and laugh at Obama as Greenwald shadows Obama's every lie.

And the dance goes on. I wonder when Obama and Greenwald will finally stumble into each other.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

56. So from your posts here and other threads

i assume that if the NSA and/or Obama says one thing, and a day later greenwald says thats not accurate then you would believe greenwald yes even though he doesn't say or show how its inaccurate? after all one cant trust the government ne, they just lie.

[limpyhobbler]

34. That's it.

They want to know what he knows so they can go back to lying.

[randome]

6. No, we'd prefer that you package it all in a book and charge us for the 'freedom' you bestow!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[morningfog]

10. I would prefer our government not spy on us and then lie about it.

[uponit7771]

11. yeap, we'd be better off in Russia :rolleyes:

[morningfog]

13. I didn't say that or think that. We should be far better than Russia.

I don't use Russia as our civil liberty benchmark.

[JDPriestly]

28. Well said.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

40. That will have to wait until the reporting is concluded

Which, fortunately for us, is free online.

The I'm sure the book will be even better considering all the room for deep background info we will get.

You must be on the edge of your seat with anticipation.

[jazzimov]

18. I would! Put up or shut up!

#callyourbluff

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

41. I doubt they would want to stray from their current course of putting up

High quality reporting with thorough analysis and research.

[randome]

58. 'High quality'? Like what Greenwald said about PRISM and 'direct access'?

He didn't bother to do his research on that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

59. Yep. As Documented on NSA's TOP SECRET material.

Just like THAT.

[randome]

60. PRISM isn't even a program. It's a database.

The 'direct access' reference was to secure FTP servers that allow the companies to securely transmit data they are obliged to turn over as the result of a legal warrant.

Greenwald didn't know any of this because he did no research.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

61. That IS direct access to their servers. As noted in their TOP SECRET documents.

Just as he reported.

Wonder which documents he will reveal next?

[randome]

62. It's 'direct access' to one secure FTP server per company. Not the same thing as Greenwald said.

When a journalist doesn't do basic fact-checking, he/she loses credibility. Greenwald will sink into obscurity once he runs out of nefarious adjectives to pin to his stories.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

63. Exactly and GG did say it, the NSA TOP SECRET DOCS did.

good bye.

[Lancero]

21. Do it, Do it!

Fuck the government hard and fast - With as badly as they have screwed over the people in recent years, they don't deserve slow and soft.

[ProSense]

23. OMG, I just realized what this is

"@ggreenwald: Would the WH prefer mass, indiscriminate, bulk, unvetted simultaneous disclosure? "

Greenwald realizes that the President's commitment to reforms undercuts his slow drip bullshit so he's trying to hype his future blockbusterish releases.

Everything he releases from now on is likely addressed in reforms embraced by the President.

Obama 1, Greenwald Wut?

[noise]

33. Commitment to reforms

So impressive. But you forgot to note that this heartfelt commitment has nothing to do with Snowden as the yearning for reform preceded the Snowden leaks.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

42. Sounds more like lol to me

[Mojorabbit]

65. Oh that is just sad. nt

[millennialmax]

26. Hah.

[Maedhros]

47. Speaking at the Cato Institute is common for a number of people across the political spectrum.

Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR)


Markos Moulitsas


Jared Polis (D-CO)

Clinton Treasury Official J. Bradford Delong
http://www.cato-unbound.org/contributors/j-bradford-delong

[msanthrope]

64. Did Ron Wyden write whitepaper for CATO? Appear at Benefactor's Summit's as a party premium?

It's one thing to take part in a Cato event--but when you cross the line and write a policy whitepaper for them, AND show up at one of their internal Benefactor parties, AND go on a speaking tour funded by them, that marks you as something different:

4. Glenn Greenwald claiming he only wrote “2 freelance articles” for the Cato Institute is offensive it’s so utterly absurd. We know it. Glenn knows it. For one thing, one of those “free-lance articles” was nothing resembling a “freelance article”—it was a major policy whitepaper, a one-year massive report that included numerous speaking engagements on behalf of the Koch-founded Cato Institute. And let’s not forget, the Cato Institute was originally founded as The Charles Koch Foundation of Wichita. We merely copied the phrase “Glenn Greenwald of the libertarian Cato Institute” from the description used by numerous mainstream media outlets across the country over the past few years. For example:

Here: http://www.ohio.com/editorial/commentary/will-republicans-take-lessons-from-british-conservatives-1.169415

“Glenn Greenwald of the libertarian Cato Institute, endorsing the California measure, notes that…”

Or here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8207584/Politicians-should-say-what-they-really-think-about-drugs.html


“Judged by virtually every available metric,” says Glenn Greenwald of the Cato Institute, a libertarian US think tank, “the Portuguese decriminalisation framework has been a resounding success.”

Moreover, as Greenwald himself knows better than anyone, his ties to the Cato Institute and the Koch-funded libertarian nomenklatura go deeper than this. For example, Glenn Greenwald was one of the keynote speakers at an elite “Cato Benefit Sponsors” event, featuring Glenn and Cato fellow P.J. O’Rourke and winger Michael Barone. Who among progressives is invited as a top entertainer for the elite Cato Institute Benefit Sponsors event? Glenn Greenwald, that’s who.

But even if Greenwald’s ties to the Cato Institute didn’t go deeper, the idea that taking money from the Koch brothers for a one-year drug-decriminalization project shouldn’t be disclosed each time Greenwald attacks progressives while defending the Kochs’/libertarians’ pet projects—as when Greenwald defended Citizens United, much to progressives’ confusion, or when Greenwald attacked our article in The Nation about the Koch-funded libertarians leading the anti-TSA union campaign—is plain wrong and ridiculous. Payoffs and influence-peddling usually come in more subtle forms than payments marked “BRIBE.” In Russia, bankers would pay off government ministers not by giving them money earmarked “Vzyatka” but rather by giving them a “book advance” on a completely unrelated, intellectual endeavor. But even in Russia, bribery schemes like that, which clearly tie the recipient of that money to the donor of that money, led to ministers being fired. So when the Koch brothers pay for Greenwald to spend a year on a policy whitepaper, even on something as “benign” as a drug policy whitepaper, we don’t see it as benign when Greenwald simultaneously protects libertarians, defends Citizens United, and attacks journalism critical of Koch-funded libertarians.

http://exiledonline.com/glenn-greenwald-of-the-libertarian-cato-institute-posts-his-defense-of-joshua-foust-the-exiled-responds-to-greenwald/

[Maedhros]

66. I'm perfectly capable of analyzing Greenwald's body of work.

I do not see the sinister agenda you are implying, and I invite interested parties reading this exchange to read Glenn's blog and decide for themselves.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/series/glenn-greenwald-security-liberty

He has been very critical of Obama, just as he was very critical of Bush. If one is inclined to write him off as some kind of libertarian attack dog for the Koch brothers, then I really can't do much about that: as Jonathan Swift wrote, " It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

32. Who cares what wrong doers think, I'd prefer a deliberate and careful release

Otherwise it adds up to info overload that will be easier to ignore.

Keep doing the superior job you are doing, in other words, steady as she goes.

[Fire Walk With Me]

50. Annihilate the surveillance state. Utterly. Now.

[greyl]

55. A stuporical question. nt