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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFraud And Disability Equal A Multibillion Dollar Black Hole For Taxpayers
http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardfinger/2013/01/14/fraud-and-disability-equal-a-multibillion-dollar-balck-hole-for-taxpayers/A study by the NBER (National Bureau of Economic Research) found that for workers with low paying jobs, SSDI including Medicare replaced, on average, 90% of working income. (SSDI recipients get free Medicare after two years of receiving benefits.) In times of tepid job growth, like now for instance, wages are often stagnant, so if there is a choice between working at minimum wage versus doing nothing and earning almost equal amounts, sloth trumps exertion much more often than not.
...[S]econdly, the qualification standards have been severely watered down. As evidenced by above statistics “back pain” is questioned much less today. It is not difficult to claim otherwise when a person says they are depressed. Also, more attention is paid to the applicants claims of pain and special trust is placed in the report made by the applicants own physician. Third, once invited into the club, why leave. In 1983, 163 per 1,000 people terminated benefits. Jump ahead to 2011 and that number has collapsed to only 74 per 1,000. In a crummy job market the incentive is to stay put... A fourth reason is that the labor participation rate, at 63.7%, is at its lowest levels in generations. This translates that of the millions who have thrown in the towel looking for employment, many have elected to enter the SSDI lottery. This leads us to the huge issue of fraud.
“We know there are individuals who will purposely withhold or fabricate information to collect government benefits they are not entitled to receive”. Those are the words of the Office of the Inspector General from their hearing on “combating disability waste, fraud, and abuse”. The Senate conducted their own investigation which concluded that fully one quarter of all disability insurance claims decisions were flawed, improperly addressing “insufficient, contradictory, and incomplete evidence, thus increasing the chances of rewarding nondisabled persons.” The study also determined the Social Security Administration (SSA) failed to establish that claimants were properly screened to certify that they satisfied metrics in the Social Security Administration’s (SSA) medical “Listing of Impairments” to meet eligibility requirements that would qualify them for the DI program. The Inspector General’s office identified billions in fraud. The Senate study implies many billions more in abuses. Much of the ongoing program cheating comes from those who continue to collect disability payments but are stealthily employed on the side. Not surprisingly, some of the SSDI wounds are self-inflicted. The SSA loses hundreds of millions continuing to pay those who were honest and notified that they were returning to work. The agency is supposed to conduct CDR’s or Continuing Disability Reviews to check in and determine the status of the disabled. I know it surprises everyone that there is a huge backlog and SSA is severely understaffed in this area. Probably the biggest area of abuse is those who gingerly slip through the vetting net and shouldn’t be getting disability payments in the first place. The contrived complexity of the SSDI system has spawned a cottage industry of doctors and specialized legal teams to navigate the byzantine multi-tiered documentation process. While the integrity of most lawyers and doctors is beyond reproach there are a few bad apples that make their living gaming the system. Remember what your mother preached, “if at first you don’t succeed, try, try again”. This small nugget of wisdom pays off especially when applying for SSDI. Often applicants may be turned down on the first or second attempt to receive benefits. Many times it is only through a court hearing that cases get resolved. Per a study by D. Autor and M. Duggan as many as 40% of all disability awards comes through the appeals process. Some judges gain the reputation of never seeing a claim they didn’t like………never refusing anyone. They also found in one recent year the SSA paid out as much as half a billion dollars to claimants attorneys....
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GiaGiovanni
(1,247 posts)The poor dope who did that was just one of the several alleged insurance fraudsters recently caught in the act by the Utah Attorney General’s Office and inspectors for the Social Security Administration. The department sent hidden camera teams out to film some people who had made claims, to see whether or not the claims were legitimate. Many were not.
One man, who had claimed crippling pain, was filmed driving a truck, carrying a baby seat, and then running away when approached by investigators. (“His truck and t-shirt indicated he had a business for buying antlers,” the AG’s press release noted.) Another woman, who claimed that various mental disorders made it very difficult for her to go out in public, had her benefits cut “after investigators found newspaper articles about her being ‘constantly involved in music projects,’ YouTube videos of her performances, Facebook posts about the venues she was playing and investigators witnessed her perform at a concert for several hundred people.”
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)that is too funny.
I think I just hurt my back laughing 
Generic Other
(29,080 posts)GiaGiovanni
(1,247 posts)http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/disability-scams-costing-taxpayers-16198911 (Video)
http://seattletimes.com/html/opinion/2020861933_harropcolumnworkbeastsxml.html
Social Security’s disability insurance benefit has morphed into a $124 billion welfare program. Many beneficiaries are older blue-collar workers out of a job, preferring to collect these inflation-adjusted monthly checks to doing some low-wage gig at a hamburger place.
This discussion is not about the severely disabled — workers who’ve suffered grievous strokes or other medical calamities. It is about the reasonably able-bodied playing the scam and the doctors helping them. It’s about a government that doesn’t tighten the rules.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)In fact the process for eligibility is onerous. Most claims are initially denied.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)The only reason there would even be any kind of a rise in disability claims is because the population is getting older.
It's damned difficult to get disability.
SomethingFishy
(4,876 posts)It took my wife and I 3 years and a lawyer to get her disability.. And she's in bad shape, neuropathy, arthritis, heart disease, she needs hip replacement, she's in a wheelchair and on oxygen 24/7 and it still took us 3 years and numerous hearings before they agreed to pay.
This whole argument is stupid as hell, people cheat everywhere. Yet I don't see any calls to close the Stock Market, to end Citizens United, to stop abusive lobbying....
deurbano
(2,986 posts)Was she able to get back checks from when she was first denied (I hope)?
SomethingFishy
(4,876 posts)Lawyer gets a huge chunk though..
valerief
(53,235 posts)GiaGiovanni
(1,247 posts)Have you heard about the mess the VA is in?
valerief
(53,235 posts)ventures like wars.
GiaGiovanni
(1,247 posts)?
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)GiaGiovanni
(1,247 posts)?
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)Billions of dollars lost to contractor fraud, waste and abuse
http://www.alternet.org/story/140558/report%3A_billions_of_dollars_lost_to_contractor_fraud,_waste_and_abuse
Fraudulent Defense contractors Paid a Trillion
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=02d36680-a643-4142-954d-f8aa80cd389f
Defense contractor to pay $6 million amid allegations of fraud
http://www.tampabay.com/news/military/defense-contractor-to-pay-6m-amid-allegations-of-tampa-based-fraud/2130520
dembotoz
(16,922 posts)someone is perceived to buy something other than gruel with food stamps and suddenly come the calls for the programs elimination.
Frankly i know some disabled folks on SSDI and if their benes are removed because of some bastardly attempt to limit fraud??????
shit we might as well just start burning it all down
GiaGiovanni
(1,247 posts)Here's my issue with this. I have a dear friend with an immunity disorder (used to be known as Epstein Bar). She truly is disabled and cannot work. She has tried everything, from the traditional Western meds to a naturopathic approach, and nothing seems to work. From a distance she doesn't appear disabled, but she is.
My fear is that if real fraud isn't stopped, there will be backlash so severe that my friend's condition will be questioned and that she will lose her much needed benefits.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)You are peddling hogwash on this thread.
LeftishBrit
(41,453 posts)Last edited Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:44 AM - Edit history (1)
committing fraud.
It isn't that there is a backlash because so many people are committing fraud. It's the other way round. There is an emphasis on, and gross exaggeration, of 'fraud' BECAUSE of the backlash against the social safety net, that has arisen for other reasons.
It is really the same sort of thing as the Reaganite propaganda about 'welfare queens'.
kcr
(15,522 posts)It's a prevailing myth that people on disability are only milking the system and that it's so easy to get. Your OP only feeds that myth.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)
OregonBlue
(8,215 posts)easy it is to "fake" it. Mental health claims are extremely hard to get approved. He was automatically denied and had to go through the appeals process 3 times so no, it's not a cake walk. This is just more GOP group think and whining about those lazy "entitled" people.
LeftishBrit
(41,453 posts)deurbano
(2,986 posts)LeftishBrit
(41,453 posts)benefits, and treatment of disabled people as likely to be 'undeserving', because a few may be fraudulent. It's already happening in the UK.
Fraud will always exist; but this particular form is rare. In the UK, statistics suggest that only 0.03% of incapacity benefit claims are fraudulent. But due to the media attacks, most people surveyed estimate it as around 20 to 25% - a gross overestimate.
Assuming that the USA is not enormously more generous than Britain and other countries (and I see no signs that it is), the likely reason why many claims are accepted at the appeals process rather than earlier, is that the initial assessment system is set up to reject claims if at all possible to do so. You have to seriously prove your case before you have any eligibility for benefits.
Our media and government are promoting harshness toward disabled people and other benefit claimants. Please do not get taken in by similar nastiness in your country. Our chief government proponent of the onslaught on sick and disabled benefit claimants, Iain Duncan-Smith, once co-authored an article on 'compassionate conservativism' with Rick Santorum. It's obvious that our righties are in cahoots.
See this article:
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/archives/18638
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)It is extremely difficult to get disability in this country. A lot of whether or not you ultimately get approved depends on the ALJ.
Some ALJs have only a 15-percent approval rate, while others can have as high as an 85-percent rate.
It's a crapshoot.
LeftishBrit
(41,453 posts)I think you may have slightly misunderstood my post. I was saying that there is an extremely harsh attitude to disability benefit in the UK, and that I suspected that it's at least as bad in the USA. From your post, it seems that I was correct.
I think that the right-wing propagandists of our countries (and possibly others) are collaborating too much. It is always bad, and is even worse when they deliberately target and demonize the most vulnerable people.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)This is all about distracting people from the fact the elites are stealing more and more from them.
LeftishBrit
(41,453 posts)I was saying that only a tiny amount of fraud of this nature exists, and it is exaggerated beyond measure by the media and many politicians to justify a crackdown on poor and disabled people.
I changed the order of points in my post to make this a bit clearer (hopefully).
The motto of the right wing these days is 'do kick people when they're down!'
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Farm subsidies?
blogslut
(39,167 posts)Yep, smells like bullshit.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)I hope I have not been using them as a source. Having national in their title make it sound like they are a government group (although I have to wonder if the government is any more trustworthy, all things considered).
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)and it was a lively topic of outrage on an Multiple Sclerosis board I belong to. We all pretty much call BS on it but the fact that this is being pushed is very concerning.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)In several cases it took years and repeated medical exams before the claim was grudgingly accepted.
This is typical RW claptrap trying to justify cutting of social services to anyone. One person in 10,000 is faking, so the other 9,999 have to suffer because of it.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)You have to go see three of their Doctors.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)It is REALLY difficult to qualify for either SSDI or SSI. I just spent two years trying to get my brother approved for SSI; he finally got it. We had him examined by a psychologist who ran a slew of tests on him--over 20--while SS had their psychologist and also supplied the expert at the hearing. There was no question from the results from the psychologist we hired that my brother qualified. The ALJ approved him right off the bat.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I mean, there really are lawyers whose entire practice is getting people on SSI, and firms who work for state governments moving people off of TANF and on to SSI.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)I have a friend who is an attorney. He can only practice pro bono because he has a spinal cord injury. If he did he would lose the access to affordable attendant services. He literally would not be able to get out of bed if he had the income of a new attorney at an average firm.
DonCoquixote
(13,961 posts)trying to get diagnosed, I say this is BS. Of course, "mental anguish" is consider fraud, not like we have a record of treating Mental illness in this country.
Sarcasm of course. We would rather make it easier for the mentally ill to get ak-47s than treatment.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)
Beaverhausen
(24,699 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)MM says:
FACT: Increased Child Poverty And The Recession Account For Rise In Benefits
The one does not contradict the other
FACT: Medical Evidence From Qualified Professionals Is Required To Determine Eligibility
Joffe-Walt doesn't deny this; that's the entire first segment of the report where she interviews doctors about the criteria they use to determine eligibility.
Joffe-Walt mentioned that in her reporting, too.
FACT: Disability Benefits Incentivize Work
That myth is also not what Joffe-Walt said. They even quote her. They said it creates an incentive for Jahleel's mom for Jahleel to continue to struggle in school; she doesn't say anything about working.
FACT: Social Security System Significantly Reduces Poverty For Children With Disabilities
Joffe-Walt listed 4 specific ways people want the disability system to help people, and catalogued how it doesn't do that. In particular, it doesn't help people find a job that they can do with their disability. See the bit about Wanda and how she's never even seen a job that lets her sit down.
Media Matters makes a lot of excellent points in this article, but they're attacking something other than what Joffe-Walt reported.
alp227
(33,284 posts)The "using children" part is based on JW's quote:
The way JW is reporting it sounds like a genteel, classier version of Reagan's welfare queen myth.
And regarding MM's "qualified expert" part, it refers to this vague wording choice by JW:
Recursion
(56,582 posts)That seems like an odd thing to say. She's interviewing people who (say they) need their kids' SSI income to make ends meet. Are they just wrong? Could they in fact do without?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)I wrote about how fucked up and biased it was here. Others also called out the alleged "facts", which weren't.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Even if you hate Act 1, Act 2 is very important.
FreeJoe
(1,039 posts)A Republican will end or reduce any program to help the poor if there is some chance that someone somewhere will abuse the program. A Democrat will look at the totality of the program and judge it on whether it helps more than it hurts.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)the rate of acceptance of ssdi claims has gone down, not up. and the absolute number of applications is little different than it was in 2001.
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/STATS/dibStat.html
claims go up somewhat during recessionary periods, for obvious reasons. that problem that seemed tolerable when you had a job you were accustomed to gets less tolerable when you have no job, or can't find a job that can accomodate to your problem.
leftstreet
(40,683 posts)Do some research
Disability claims are DOWN
Fraud is DOWN
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)that people will be willing to defund disability. I have a legally blind husband and an autistic son here at home, so the propaganda is lost on me. I know first hand how valuable disability programs are. I will always support SSDI and other programs designed to help the disabled, and can I ask why you are quoting Forbes? They are notoriously conservative.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)NightWatcher
(39,376 posts)I'm just having a grand old time sucking off the govt teet, living the high life here with my kidney disease, liver disease, autoimmune disease, and decreased life expectantcy. The disability insurance I receive is equal to me making less than $6 an hour at a 40 hr a week job.
We have a safety net for those of us who fall down or fall ill.
We're not trying to pull a fast one on anyone.
sorefeet
(1,241 posts)example here and was just called a liar, soooooo, when the newspaper article comes out after he is busted, about this person I know who is frauding AND making a grand a week selling medical marijuana illegally, I will post it. Some of you folks don't know shit from shinola.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)sorefeet
(1,241 posts)sorefeet
(1,241 posts)sitting on my couch bragging about getting SSDI in 3 fucking months, as my brother was sitting directly across from him and had applied 5 months earlier with fucking terminal end stage liver disease was selected by the SS to review his case for fraud. He got SSI after 6 months and lived another year. He tried medicade while waiting for SS he finally got it in Illinois after 10 days wait and it had been 40 days in Montana after we applied they said you have medicade.
PEOPLE DO FRAUD and it hurts people who need it, they are the ones who get punished for being sick. That's why I am so mad about fraud.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)Come back with another story.
I KNOW how hard it is trying to get SSI and went through the system with my brother after he was turned down twice. It all depends on the ALJ if you eventually get approved.
LeftofObama
(4,243 posts)"
SSDI recipients get free Medicare after two years of receiving benefits.)"
Really?! Where do I sign up for that? After two years on SSDI over $100 is deducted from my check to pay for Medicare and I pay another $40 for Part D. That's not including other co pays for doctor visits and some of my medicine. While Medicare is a lifesaver for me, it is hardly free!
sorefeet
(1,241 posts)what ALJ is.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)
DJ13
(23,671 posts)
ruffburr
(1,190 posts)Here is the deal from my experience, I went into heart failure 4 x in one year, While trying to find work for over 2 yrs at 50+, THE only way that i got on ssi was that iwas in process with Soc. Sec. when i ended up in I.C.U. and the state ie: ( in ca.} C.M.S.P. did'nt want to pay and my Cardio dr. AND my therapist made some calls and about a month later I finaly got a call that gave me SSI , My point is that to see me day to day I LOOK ok but truth is I have no stamina for more than an hour or so doing light stuff heavy stuff is NOT gonna happen at all, So basicly i had to be on my death bed to get S.S.I., My message to these Assholes that think i want to make 800.00 a month to live on, Can go screw themselves, P.S. I was a ranch manager before the" recession" not a lot of positions available in this day and age for my skillset anyway but just so ya'll know this kind of living SUCKS!
sorefeet
(1,241 posts)SSDI and SSI are two different things. SSI is when you haven't paid in very much or you had not paid in for 5 years prior to applying for SS. You worked very little and don't qualify for full blown disability. SSDI is usually when your working and have paid in lots plus your age and job description has a lot to do with it also. Work hard labor for 40 years and your bones are wore out, they know that. 40 years of INDUSTRIAL sandblasting and high tech coating with deadly chemicals and solvents, destroys the bodies infrastructure and nervous system. SSDI in 3 months.
hunter
(40,691 posts)Disability? It's nothing in comparison to what the hundred-millionaire and billionaire crooks suck out of our economy. Disability fraud is peanuts.
Wohoo! Food Stamps! That's a sad, sad "scam." Pathetic. Feel sorry for these scammers and recognize their "disability" is still cheaper than prison.
How about instead we start with the criminals at top and work our way down?
onethatcares
(16,992 posts)before the government stopped counting how much they really scored, and we all know the fine never hurts these corporations. HCA then paid Governor Rick Scott of Florida 300 Million Dollars to go away. Rick Scott proceeded to claim the 5th amendment 75 times during a deposition concerning said fraud.
And Forbes is worried about "back pain" claims.
Fucking assholes, the more things never change, they never change
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)i was denied 2x even though 3 docs said i couldn't work. finally hired a lawyer and went before an administrative law judge. i finally won my case and the money came retroactively minus the cut for the lawyer which was $4,000. that was 22 years ago. i didn't take the medicare. i had my husband's health care benefits.
if SSA is paying attorneys that's something new. my attorney's fee came right out of my retroactive check. it came from me not SSA.
GiaGiovanni
(1,247 posts)Others sail through on next to nothing. Sometimes, it's about whose running the local disability office.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)alp227
(33,284 posts)