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WillyT

(72,631 posts)
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:56 PM Aug 2013

The NSA Is Turning The Internet Into A Total Surveillance System - GuardianUK

The NSA is turning the internet into a total surveillance system
Now we know all Americans' international email is searched and saved, we can see how far the 'collect it all' mission has gone

Alexander Abdo and Patrick Toomey - theguardian.com
Sunday 11 August 2013 09.00 EDT

According to the New York Times, the NSA is searching the content of virtually every email that comes into or goes out of the United States without a warrant. To accomplish this astonishing invasion of Americans' privacy, the NSA reportedly is making a copy of nearly every international email. It then searches that cloned data, keeping all of the emails containing certain keywords and deleting the rest – all in a matter of seconds.


The NSA appears to believe this general monitoring of our electronic communications is justified because the entire process takes, in one official's words, "a small number of seconds". Translation: the NSA thinks it can intercept and then read Americans' emails so long as the intrusion is swift, efficient and silent.

That is not how the fourth amendment works.

Whether the NSA inspects and retains these messages for years, or only searches through them once before moving on, the invasion of Americans' privacy is real and immediate. There is no "five-second rule" for fourth amendment violations: the US constitution does not excuse these bulk searches simply because they happen in the blink of an eye.


That legal theory is extraordinarily dangerous because it would allow the NSA to acquire virtually all digital information today simply because it might possibly become relevant tomorrow. The surveillance program revealed by the New York Times report goes one step further still. No longer is the government simply collecting information now so that the data is available to search, should a reasonable suspicion arise at some point in the future; the NSA is searching everything now – in real time and without suspicion – merely on the chance that it finds something of interest.

That principle of pre-emptive surveillance threatens to subvert the most basic protections of the fourth amendment, which generally prohibit the government from conducting suspicion-less fishing expeditions through our private affairs. If the government is correct that it can search our every communication in case we say or type something suspicious, there is little to prevent the NSA from converting the internet into a tool of pervasive surveillance.


More: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/11/nsa-internet-surveillance-email


30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The NSA Is Turning The Internet Into A Total Surveillance System - GuardianUK (Original Post) WillyT Aug 2013 OP
Minority Report. nt silvershadow Aug 2013 #1
The Onion Electric Monk Aug 2013 #12
The NSA have more boxes in their garage than Snowden DJ13 Aug 2013 #2
From what I have seen on the Internet, the surveillance program is not doing a good job. nt kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #3
why stop at communications? why not start random house searches? nashville_brook Aug 2013 #4
Have video cameras in all homes. No one would watch without a warrant of course, rhett o rick Aug 2013 #6
Turn the wi-fi capable TV's into cameras? TxGrandpa Aug 2013 #9
No doubt you've seen this or something like it: AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #14
"What I wouldn't GIVE to have my house randomly searched!" Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #18
K and R nt Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #5
The PreCrimes unit will be knocking on our doors with copies of all of our unpatriotic emails. BlueManFan Aug 2013 #7
I say we start a "Facebook" only with us mooning them. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #8
K&R! n/t Catherina Aug 2013 #10
Thx to the Gaurdian I have to go out and buy more Tin Foil, I think that's what SnowdenUndergruond uponit7771 Aug 2013 #11
The Irony here: formercia Aug 2013 #13
It'd be funny if it weren't so sad. DeSwiss Aug 2013 #15
I never thought the internet was supposed to be private. JohnnyRingo Aug 2013 #16
Shhhh...... don't bring reality into the delusionals whistler162 Aug 2013 #19
Crazy world we live in. JohnnyRingo Aug 2013 #21
Not quite. RC Aug 2013 #20
Before Snowden... JohnnyRingo Aug 2013 #24
I know cordless were not secure. Cordless phones do not use the internet, either. RC Aug 2013 #25
Not excusing the NSA... JohnnyRingo Aug 2013 #27
What's my email address? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #22
Kick and Recommend cantbeserious Aug 2013 #17
Has the Guardian also scrutinzed the British equivalent of the NSA? Rosa Luxemburg Aug 2013 #23
Yes: WillyT Aug 2013 #26
TIA Rex Aug 2013 #28
K&R woo me with science Aug 2013 #29
KNR Th1onein Aug 2013 #30
 

kelliekat44

(7,759 posts)
3. From what I have seen on the Internet, the surveillance program is not doing a good job. nt
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 04:14 PM
Aug 2013
 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
6. Have video cameras in all homes. No one would watch without a warrant of course,
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 05:35 PM
Aug 2013

wink, wink.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
14. No doubt you've seen this or something like it:
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 06:19 PM
Aug 2013
"In the novel 1984, every television set could not only watch what a person was doing int heir house, but it could also listen to and interact with that person as well. A similar television can also be found in Fahrenheit 451. Today, Samsung has accomplished this task in a new line of televisions already in stores.

"Samsung’s 2012 top-of-the-line plasmas and LED HDTVs offer new features never before available within a television including a built-in, internally wired HD camera, twin microphones, face tracking and speech recognition. While these features give you unprecedented control over an HDTV, the devices themselves, more similar than ever to a personal computer, may allow hackers or even Samsung to see and hear you and your family, and collect extremely personal data.

"While Web cameras and Internet connectivity are not new to HDTVs, their complete integration is, and it’s the always connected camera and microphones, combined with the option of third-party apps (not to mention Samsung’s own software) gives us cause for concern regarding the privacy of TV buyers and their friends and families.

http://www.lossofprivacy.com/index.php/2012/03/samsungs-new-tvs-bring-big-brother-closer/

BlueManFan

(256 posts)
7. The PreCrimes unit will be knocking on our doors with copies of all of our unpatriotic emails.
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 05:47 PM
Aug 2013

gee....I love this place!!!!!

uponit7771

(93,532 posts)
11. Thx to the Gaurdian I have to go out and buy more Tin Foil, I think that's what SnowdenUndergruond
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 06:00 PM
Aug 2013

...is being used for...

Big aliminum

no doubt

formercia

(18,479 posts)
13. The Irony here:
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 06:14 PM
Aug 2013

The 'Internet' as we know it is not that old. In prior Years, before the WWW and Telnet it had been a Classified Govenment communication Network to link Government Contractors, Universities doing Government Research. I can remember, back in the 60's, when working for Raytheon, making Missiles, the weekly visit by Army snuffies to change the Key Cards in the Crypto Equipment that connected the facility to the Net.
So, why did the Government turn a Classified asset into a Public Playground? The thought it would make a good Intelligence Collection Tool, considering all of the Anti-War and Race Riots going on at the Time.

It was the Plan from the very beginning. Always has been, always will be. Folks are just now waking up to the facts.

Welcome to the Real World, Neo.........

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
15. It'd be funny if it weren't so sad.
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 06:20 PM
Aug 2013

Exactly what part of the concept: ''New World Order'' do people not understand!?!?!

To have a New World Order, first you have to have control of a world.

How do you do that?, you might ask.

Why it's simple really. You get into everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY's business.

Like, say.... their email. Their credit accounts. Their bank accounts. Their sex lives. Their tax haven accounts. Their hideaways, cutbacks and rabbit holes. Their DNA. Their water rights. Their energy needs. THEIR EVERYTHING.

Kinda like where we are right now.

- Once you have your new world, next comes the order part.....

K&R

JohnnyRingo

(20,864 posts)
16. I never thought the internet was supposed to be private.
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 06:21 PM
Aug 2013

What's the point of posting something, or even for that matter sending a communication, if no one should see it?

The point it reaches unconstitutionality is when the govt prosecutes without a warrant. Otherwise one may as well complain that bad people are listening in on their CB radio chatter.

Don't want anyone eavesdropping? Put aside the Blackberry, iPhone, and laptop. Stop using Facebook, Twitter, and Outlook Express to broadcast your activities and mail an old fashioned letter. Demanding 21st century convenience with 19th century privacy is maybe a little too demanding.

Next, drivers will freak out when they naively discover OnStar keeps track of where they've been and how fast they were going at the time of an accident. If this is unacceptable, opt out. Indeed, opt out of every wireless telecom device and you can party like it's 1899.

JohnnyRingo

(20,864 posts)
21. Crazy world we live in.
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 07:21 PM
Aug 2013
1776 - 2008... Government completely out of our affairs.
2008 - present: "Oh my GOD, they hear and read everything, even my vacation plans and why I took the dog to the vet!".

That's why back in the '70s I could routinely make drug deals on the phone without any fear of government intervention. hahaha
 

RC

(25,592 posts)
20. Not quite.
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 07:10 PM
Aug 2013

E-mails are suppose to be private. One sender and only the ones it is addressed to should see it. , phone calls are point to point. Same for video conferences. Otherwise why log in? How does Tritter, Face book, etc., equate to a private communications between two people? Those don't. But E-mails do.
There are laws concerning reading other people's E-mails. Conviction of which can be expensive and even include jail time.
Don't confuse message boards (such as DU), blogs, publicly available web pages, with private communications.

JohnnyRingo

(20,864 posts)
24. Before Snowden...
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 07:32 PM
Aug 2013

...were you really sending emails assuming they were 100% secure? Be honest.

Thirty years ago did you talk on a cordless phone and know your conversation was iron clad private and protected from prying ears? You would have been a miserable failure at drug dealing.

Welcome to the world of 20th century technology visitor.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for proper channels for survelience, but you will never, ever, ever be sure no one will monitor communications that bounce off a tower and gets tranmsmitted to a satellite and to another wireless device. Adapt your behavior accordingly.

There is nothing you can do, and no one you can ever elect to insure total privacy. I guess stating outrage on an internet forum helps.

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
25. I know cordless were not secure. Cordless phones do not use the internet, either.
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 07:44 PM
Aug 2013

Nothing is 100%. But it does not take 100%, 100% of the time to be reasonably assured of your communications being private. Just because it can be done, does not mean it is... Or even should be.
To me, it sounds like you are excusing the NSA and their ilk. Also you do not seem understand how the various types of communications work and their differences. I have been in various communications fields since 1966. You?

JohnnyRingo

(20,864 posts)
27. Not excusing the NSA...
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 08:47 PM
Aug 2013

I'm not trusting them to avoid a temptation that will be available to them until the end of the Earth.

Some think if only stricter privacy laws are passed we can breathe a sigh of relief and be assured that all communications are secure. That ship sailed soon after Edison told Watson he needs him.

 

usGovOwesUs3Trillion

(2,022 posts)
22. What's my email address?
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 07:22 PM
Aug 2013

There is also a big difference between public and private information.

But don't let thre privacy pirates fool you, the internet is NOT inherently insecure/not private... otherwise we would not have such a thing as eCommerce, for example.

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