Breaking Bad

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

I have a political observation on this show.

Even though I'm not a fan of the pulp-fiction fare that's the main diet on American teeVee, I do find it amusing how many people apparently support a tarted-up, violent, drug dealer, due to the difficult situation he was faced with by a corrupt system, yet some of the shows supporters are foaming at the mouth detractors of a real life charector (Snowden) who "broke" the law, in a non-violent, and for completely unselfish reasons, unlike the purely selfish reasons of the fictional charector on the teeVee show.

I wonder what flavor of cognitive dissonance is operating here?

BTW: lame snark, and/or childish personal attacks does nothing to diminish the observation or advance your POV.

Just a friendly FYI

[NightWatcher]

1. bunny pancake head

[Jackpine Radical]

4. How

waffle.

[Comrade Grumpy]

2. Meh. Save it for the Snowden threads.

[valerief]

3. Uh, Walt is the bad guy. nt

[bravenak]

5. Oh please spare us this.

You said you had not seen even an episode of the show, and you wanted the other thread out of GD. Shouldn't YOU follow your own advice and put this in the lounge? Walter White's initial motivation was selfless. He became an asshole later.
Watch the show first then give us your synopsis. Otherwise you're just faking it.
Seems like a revenge thread.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

8. Just a political observation of the popular program

Not a synopsis of the show.

You don't need to participate in the thread if you don't want to, but I think discussing a political point of a pop culture show has merit in GD.

Especially if you can simply discuss the show here in GD.

[bravenak]

9. You haven't even watched it.

That's my point. Watch it first then discuss. Otherwise you don't know what you're talking about.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

12. That's why this not a synopsis of the show

Just an observation on its premise and main charector which is well known.

[bravenak]

15. You don't seem to know much about it.

What's wrong with informing yourself about the topic you want to discuss?
You don't know what the premise is.
You don know why he started.
You don't know why we sympathize with Walt.
Lung cancer is a bitch, our healthcare system is a joke, cerebral palsy fucks you up, watch out for that PTSD, and magnets. Don't die and leave your family hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt cause you just had a change of life baby. Shooting dope with your ex addict girfriend may lead to overdose and planes may fall out of the sky.
If you have seen the show you know what I mean.
Watch the show or I'll keep making fun of Snowden.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

36. I'm familiar with the main premis of the show

What I do not understand is how some can be sympathetic to a tarted-up, made-for-teeVee, violent, selfish, drug dealer, yet not be sympathetic to a real life charector who is none violent, and has made a selfless sacrifice for us all?

That doesn't strike you as an interesting disconnect?

[bravenak]

39. Selfless sacrifice?

He ain't did squat for my black ass, black people are used to being spied on by the government. We take it as a given. They sent spies to spy on us in the slave quarters. Okay!
He's an upper middle class, overpaid, under qualified jackass who took shit that didn't belong to him and ran. If he were black or arab y'all wouldn't be glorifying what he did.
If he was a Muslim American that stole state secrets and ran to china and told them how we were spying on them, then to Russia to tell them and hid out at the Cinnabon for a few weeks there would be no hero worship. We'd be talking terrorism and 9-11.
When I see you concern yourself with the racial disparity in housing, education,incarceration, and employment, I'll take you seriously. That strikes me as an interesting disconnect.
Poor snowden, making a hundred thou a year while people go homeless and lack medical care, sacrificing himself at the alter self worship.
He created his own problems. He can come back if he wants, at least he knows he'll get less time than a black kid selling a nickel bag of weed.
Wahhhhhhh! Snowden can't come home and not face criminal charges, waaaaaaahhhhh! He's selfless, waaah waaaaah! Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!
That cheese faced, libertarian twit can enjoy Russia. I'll keep an eye on him from my upstairs window here in anchorage. Cause if he's a hero, then I can see Russia from my window. I'll make sure to alert everyone when he crosses the Bering strait!

[demwing]

40. That's not all you don't understand

because you seem incapable of responding to the challenge to watch the show before thinking yourself capable of commenting.

[Iggo]

53. No, you're not. Walt is the bad guy.

[Chiyo-chichi]

55. I've got to ask... what do you mean by "tarted-up"?

[liberalhistorian]

43. I don't understand that, either.

How can you make judgments and comments on something you've never actually seen for yourself? If the OP has never seen even one episode, then I don't see where he/she can really make any definitive judgments or comments. See,ms rather arrogant and presumptuous to me.

I can't really do either, because I've never gotten into the show. I tried to watch a couple of times, and I just didn't and couldn't get into it and I don't really care that much about it. I understand that I'm in the minority on that, and if most people are into it, that's fine and more power to them. Maybe I'm missing something that's obvious to most other viewers, who knows. But I wouldn't presume to make any judgments or observations on it, not having hardly seen it.

[bravenak]

45. That's all I'm asking, watch the show then let's discuss.

I sent the last season seething and virulently hating Walter white. But I was already invested in it.
I had a cool buzz going when I started watching, that's how I was able to get into it. Try it again like that if you want to enjoy.The show moves slow.

[tritsofme]

6. People are intrigued by fictional criminals

But oppose real ones. Is this supposed to be a profound revelation?

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

11. I find it interesting that many sympathize with such an extreme charector

Especially when they demonize a much more sympathetic charector in real life.

The contrast is interesting.

[zappaman]

13. Actually no one sympathizes with him anymore

which is the point.
which you would know if you had seen an episode instead of belittling anyone who watches.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

20. Yes. But they did.

That is what I am getting at.

I think those who truly believe that only an examined life is worth living should ask themselves why they may have these contradictory feelings.

[zazen]

31. If you believe "only an examined life is worth living,"

then the only way you can be intellectually honest is to examine the artistic work in question, including its praise and criticism by numerous literary theorists and film scholars, before excoriating people here about discussing the relevance of a popular work of art to contemporary cultural and political issues.

I'd refer you to Salon, Grantland, New Yorker, and/or Slate for interesting critical commentary about this series, which is an exemplar of a genre some are calling the new Great American Novel.

Then return and I'll happily consider your opinions.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

41. I have

You don't think I have noticed the buzz about the show, with friends telling me it would be right up my liberal/relativistic alley, which prompted me to read the many articles that came my way about the show?

Well, I have. Why do you think I am fully informed of its premis?

And this not a critique, nor a synopsis of the show. This is simply a political observation about a sympathetic violent drug-dealer on teeVee vs another charector in real life, who is also faced with a tough choice in life, who "broke bad" for unselfish reasons, in a totally non-violent way, yet some of the same people who sympathize with the fictional charector, yet are some of the harshest critics of the real life charector.

Sorry, but I find that interesting, and find it worthy of discussion yet most in this thread want to challenge my prerogative of having an opinion on the matter.

Now I'm starting to find that interesting as well.

I can discuss with someone who doesn't see it, but to deny my right to see it is something I can not understand.

[Iggo]

54. But you're not fully informed, no matter how many times you say it.

[el_bryanto]

7. Who decides what lame snark is?

At any rate a few counter points

1) Breaking Bad is fiction.

2) While we empathize with Walter, its main character, and even sympathize at times, you don't admire the guy. He's not set up as a hero; he's the protagonist. There's a big difference. You and others who support Snowden do not demand that we empathize with Snowden; you want us to support him as a hero.

3) Some people who support Snowden are fans of the show. Some people who don't support Snowden are fans of the show. You can't really conflate the two, in my opinion.

Bryant

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

17. Me

1. No kidding

2. No one is demanding anything. But the hair-on-fire attacks on this real-life character, who has broken the law for selfless reasons, is interesting, and I wonder what the difference is?

3. That is why I said some. And I can understand someone who is sympathetic to a real-life charector faced by an oppressive system... It is the others who puzzle me.

[el_bryanto]

22. Again because you believe Snowden to be a hero

Those who don't obviously feel differently than you do on a number of the points you make.

Bryant

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

44. I find him to be a sympathetic charector, more deserving than a violent selfish drug dealer, sure

But I don't call him a hero, more a Patriot.

[el_bryanto]

48. Well yes Snowden is probably better than Walter White. You got me there.

Not sure what that proves.

Patriot is a synonym for hero in these conversations.

Bryant

[Ian David]

10. Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries.

Now, go away, or I shall snark you a second time.

[zappaman]

14. hope this makes you feel better

[bunnies]

30. Worked for me!

[tammywammy]

16. The fact that you haven't watched the show is evident in your post. n/t

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

18. How so?

Is the lead charector not a violent, drug dealing criminal?

Who choose crime when the system forced him into an impossible circumstance?

[tammywammy]

19. You assume the premise of the show is to "support" Walter White.

Which isn't true.

[zappaman]

21. Of course it isn't.

But some people just like to disrupt...

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

24. From what I've read about the show, that was the main alure

Folks sympathing with the main charector of the show who was a violent drug dealer.

I would think it hard to sustain a show who's main charector wasn't sympathetic.

[zappaman]

25. Guess you haven't read the right things

maybe you should watch it before you critique it.
putting something down without seeing it is what RWers do.
since you are not a RWer, I would expect you to at least watch before making wrong comments.

[Rex]

50. I give them another week or two.

The OP is trying too hard imo.

[zappaman]

51. That long?

[Rex]

52. A few days then?

[Rex]

67. Oh noes IT got PPRd!!!

WHO could have seen that coming!?

[tammywammy]

26. Again, it's evident you've never seen the show. n/t

[bunnies]

27. Actually...

he was a cancer-ridden school teacher who got into drug manufacturing to make money enough to leave his wife, newborn daughter, and disabled son.

Hard to sympathize with a guy like that, eh?

[Iggo]

56. You read wrong things.

[deutsey]

60. Speaking for myself

I initially empathized with the character Walt (as I think most people did) when he was an under-appreciated, middle-class high school teacher working two jobs to keep his family financially solvent.

His teen son (whom he adores) has cerebral palsy, his wife (whom he also adores) is pregnant, and Walt (who happens to be a brilliant, genius-level chemist) is stuck teaching chemistry to a roomful of bored teenagers and, in one memorable scene, is humiliated working at a car wash where he has to clean the car of one of his smarmy rich-kid students.

Then he gets lung cancer.

As we learn as the series progresses, Walt is a complex character who has brought some of his life circumstances on himself, but I know I felt for the guy at first as he was facing his mortality and the prospect of leaving his family bereaved and deeply in debt from his cancer treatments.

As Walt descends into darkness through the course of the series, however, I felt much less sympathetic to him, which is what the show's creator has said he wanted to do throughout the series. He said something like he wanted to explore how a Mr. Chips-like character could become someone like Scarface.

The point of doing that, I think, is to create an American tragedy in which Walt ends up losing everything that he originally sought to perserve.

[Marr]

76. Well said.

I enjoyed your summary there. It's an incredibly well-written show.

[Paladin]

23. Got a lot of time on your hands, do you? (nt)

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

29. Plenty

[bravenak]

46. Me too.

I'm warning you. I'm gonna make fun of your friend today.
Mr. Not a Hero is a cheese faced libertarian twit.
I'll be done soon.
Since you have sooo much time, Watch the Show!
Don't talk about it, be about it.

[Number23]

72. He can't hear you anymore, bravenak

He's been shown the door by Skinner.

A moment of silence, please....



Whoops! Let's try that again.

A moment of silence, if you will...



Oh well...

[bravenak]

73. Oh happy day!!!

Happy day!
Had me acting out of character.

[NCTraveler]

28. I have never seen the Sopranos...

But when you are done with your conversation here, I would like to discuss how the show incorrectly characterized organized crime. I have some thoughts on it.

[tammywammy]

33. ....

Perfect!

[Dreamer Tatum]

32. How exactly can someone "support" a television character?

That is utter nonsense.

If you have something to say, why not base it on reality and not on TV, which you claim not to watch, anyway?

[zappaman]

34. I can answer that for you.

Because it would not be as disruptive.

[Life Long Dem]

35. "corrupt system"?

Your dealing,... your guilty. It gets no simpler. Why would there be a need for a "corrupt system" to put the guilty away? When the evidence is evident.

[HappyMe]

37. Other then you being miffed

that the other thread wasn't locked, I can't see the point of this.

Since Walter White is a fictional character, I don't see why you are comparing him (and fans of the show) to Snowden. People are free to choose to be a fan of Breaking Bad, just as they are free to choose whether or not to be a Snowden fan.

[Orrex]

38. Richard III is also a story about a villain

Breaking Bad is about many things, and one of those things is the corruption and moral destruction of the main character. No one supports Walter White, and no one is rooting for him to succeed, and by the end of the last season viewers are more or less actively wishing for his failure. In the course of the series he has transformed from a drab but sympathetic nobody into a cruel and self-serving sociopath wholy without conscience.

Walter White is a fictional character who has in reality broken no law and has harmed no one, and whose actions have no consequences outside of the context of this fictional story. Snowden is a real person whose actions have and will continute to have real-world consequences. There is no comparison between these two, and there is no cognitive dissonance at work.


Your framing of the question suggests either that you haven't watched the show or that you haven't understood it.

[CakeGrrl]

42. I think

Walter White should die, and Edward Snowden should go to jail.

[bravenak]

47. Mee too!

Heisenberg dead. +1
Cheese face in jail. Priceless.

[ellie]

49. Walter White is a monster

His wife, Skylar, is a monster, too.

I have no sympathy for him. What I find interesting about the show is how quickly he turned into a monster. Was he always one and it was lurking beneath the surface? What would have happened if he hadn't got cancer and needed the money. That terrifies me more than what did happen.

[stevenleser]

77. I think the show is meant to make you wonder whether all people are capable of this under the right

(or wrong, depending how you want to phrase it) circumstances.

[sufrommich]

57. Never ever watch Hogan's Heros.

Apparently,back in the 60's,millions of American were tricked into believing the Nazis were really just a bunch of bumbling funny guys.

[Ohio Joe]

58. wow...

An ignorant analysis that does not even come close to the show or it's fans.

[stevenleser]

78. That person literally sucked IQ from DU/DUers while they were here. We were all dumber for having

read their garbage.

Thank you to the admins for taking out the trash.

[Chiyo-chichi]

84. Now I'll never know what he meant by referring to Walter White as "tarted-up."

Who talks like that in 2013?

[stevenleser]

85. If it makes you feel any better, I don't think they knew either

[demwing]

59. What nonsense! You see no problem with "what flavor of cognitive dissonance is operating here?"

But have the brazenness to follow with:

"BTW: lame snark, and/or childish personal attacks does nothing to diminish the observation or advance your POV.

That's hypocrisy.

[SidDithers]

61. Locking by Host consensus...nt

Sid

[quinnox]

62. kicking, because this has apparently been unlocked by admin

[pintobean]

64. They PPRed the OP

but I don't know who unlocked it. It is meta whining.

[quinnox]

66. I think skinner may have unlocked it

He answered a question about this thread in ask the admin, and it sounded like he thought this shouldn't have been locked.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12592893

I wasn't aware the OP had been banned, but I think that was for something else that happened in a totally different thread.

[zappaman]

63. Kick!

For the OP who has left the building.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=303173&sub=trans

[arely staircase]

65. not one but two stinky piles of troll have been shown the door

this one got its pizza not long after defending the other's homophobic OP. as far as I know they wre the same person.

[Warren DeMontague]

82. Naw. Sockpuppets? On DU?

"That's ridiculous! No one has that much free time and/or obsession!"



"I agree!"

"So do I!"

"Yeah, COMPLETELY. What you said, w00t w00t!"

[Rex]

68. Something smelt rotten the moment it entered the building.

No doubt it will be back as another really obvious and stupid name.

[arely staircase]

70. yeah, but it can't us its stupid paul revere thing without giving itself away

I am guessing both sides of the Snowden divide are glad that thing is gone forever.

[Rex]

71. Oh God! If I see 'Paul Revere with a thumb drive' ONE MORE TIME

I'm going to I agree, there is a difference between us arguing and then some jackass from parts unknown deciding to disrupt all day long with silly OPs like this one.

[Rex]

69. Breaking Wind.

Looks like you broke wind for the last time on DU.

"BTW: lame snark, and/or childish personal attacks does nothing to diminish the observation or advance your POV." Yeah neither does obvious trolling!

[In_The_Wind]

74. Careful

[Rex]

75. HAHAHA!

There is something in the wind today.

[Gravitycollapse]

79. The allure of Breaking Bad is its depiction of innocence lost. Which is exactly opposite...

of your stupid accusation. Enjoy your pizza.

[Warren DeMontague]

81. Actually the allure is watching, in the words of Vince Gilligan, "Mr Chips turn into Scarface"

and the real question is, did the situation change Walter, or was this really deep seated fucking darkness inside the seemingly mild-mannered dude the whole time?

[Warren DeMontague]

80. You don't actually watch the show, yet feel qualified to make broad metaphorical assumptions about

it, and the people who like it?


...Hmmm. Maybe you should try watching it, first, because I don't think it's about what you think it's about.

[warrprayer]

83. Walter White is the 99%

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5382404864/h4C5CA363/

[Hamlette]

86. The difference is White is fiction. It is a TV show.

It is intended to be entertaining, like all stories about anti-heros.

I'm conflicted about White and Snowden. But I don't think too much about White because I don't have to. It is a fairy tale which has to connection to my "real life". As for Snowden I don't think it is as clear cut for either side. Lots of gray here.