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Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:27 PM

 

4th Amendment for the 21st century

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, digital footprint, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


digital footprint being any data of any form which is capable of being associated with a specific citizen.

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Arrow 15 replies Author Time Post
Reply 4th Amendment for the 21st century (Original post)
PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 OP
Egnever Aug 2013 #1
PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #2
Egnever Aug 2013 #3
PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #5
Egnever Aug 2013 #9
PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #10
Egnever Aug 2013 #11
usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #14
PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #15
usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #6
PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #7
usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #8
usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #4
PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #12
usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #13

Response to PowerToThePeople (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:32 PM

1. There definitely needs to be discussion on the handling of data.

 

I am hoping for rational discussion on it before they make kneejerk laws based on the latest outrage that cripple the internet or destroy its freedom.

It is a very complex problem and will take serious thought to craft laws that are appropriate.

The public will need a lot of education as will many lawmakers. Otherwise we are going to end up with over reaching laws with lots of unintended consequences.


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Response to Egnever (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:42 PM

2. this would require a complete reversal of how we currently handle data

 

But, It would not be the first time in US history that major changes occurred. Currently we put everything out publicly and hope/assume that it is handled correctly. What if everything defaulted to anonymity first, with the individual in control of releasing it as needed? A Visa or Master-card that resembled a cash transaction? No tracking built into the system. What has happened imo, is that the system grew so big so fast, that there was not any thought to the long term repercussions. Maybe it is time to rethink things a bit. Maybe tear down some of the transaction logic and rebuild new logic based on privacy. This would likely be software solutions. No real need to modify any hardware. All of that infrastructure could remain.

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:52 PM

3. There are unintended consequences

 

No matter what, this is not an easy nut to crack.

In just your example I can see problems. For one if they made visa or mastercards resemble cash transactions it would remove a lot of the info they use to detect fraud. My card number was recently compromised and they caught it almost immediately because they were aware of my spending habits. Take that away and the amount of fraud would skyrocket overnight.

It is an incredibly complicated problem. I only hope any laws proposed or passed are carefully deliberated and thought out and like I said not a kneejerk reaction to something.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #3)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:57 PM

5. I have had the phone call when I was traveling

 

Asking about charges. I appreciate the fact that they are looking out for those transactions.

I agree, it is a very tough situation. But, I firmly believe our digital footprint belongs to us and information should only be used in ways we allow unless a warrant is issued to examine the data. I am thinking along the lines of HIPA in the medical fields.

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #5)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:17 PM

9. I would love to just outright agree with you but

 

I find the issue far too complex for such a black and white response.

Take facebook for example. People post all kinds of personal info on there for the world to see. Is it really reasonable to say the whole world except the government can look at that data? Seems fairly silly to me to put in such restrictions.

Digital footprint is a broad term that can encompass a lot.

I agree with your sentiment I just dont think its nearly as easy as changing a couple words in the fourth amendment. The unintended consequences would be vast if we did such a thing and might even break the internet as we know it.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #9)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:21 PM

10. it would certainly break the internet as we know it.

 

But, that may not be a bad thing to do. Better now than later. The more entrenched something gets, the harder the change.

I just hope people start the conversation. Thank you for your views

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #10)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:29 PM

11. It might not be

 

I do love the freedom of the internet as it stands now though and I am very loath to destroy any part of that freedom.

It could be an awesome change though you could be right.

I also hope the conversation starts. It is certainly one that needs to be had. I dont think as it stands now many are aware of what they give up when it comes to privacy when they are on the net, and at the very least people should be aware of what their expectations of privacy should be. Even if they are none at all people should be aware of it, or especially if there is none at all.

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #10)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:42 PM

14. psst...

 

You guys/gals have been in the conversation since June.

Thanks to a couple brave souls.

FYI

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Response to usGovOwesUs3Trillion (Reply #14)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 10:12 AM

15. headscratch

 

some NSA humor, usGovOwesUs3Trillion?

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Response to Egnever (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:08 PM

6. The Privacy Pirates don't like restraints

 

But if enough people speak up, there is a chance we can twist their arms whether the totalitarians like it or not.

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Response to usGovOwesUs3Trillion (Reply #6)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:12 PM

7. I do wish someone up on the hill would stand up for our digital rights.

 

DOJ isn't going to currently. Sometimes world changing events (internet, digital communications) require changes to the basic rules that govern society. They passed HIPA in 1999 because of so many changes. There are vast amounts of other personal data floating around. Why is health data considered any different than our other data?

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #7)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:16 PM

8. They didn't need to edit an existing civil right though

 

I'm more in favor of adding, or writing a new law backed by our existing liberties.

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:56 PM

4. I'd say and effects covers that, too

 

Our internet effects.

But I agree there needs to a law, based on the 4th, that makes it clear to the totalitarians that spying on everyone is against the law.

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Response to usGovOwesUs3Trillion (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:30 PM

12. Yes, because to DOJ does not share your view

 

DOJ: We don't need warrants for e-mail, Facebook chats

An FBI investigation manual updated last year, obtained by the ACLU, says it's possible to warrantlessly obtain Americans' e-mail "without running afoul" of the Fourth Amendment. (CNET)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57583395-38/doj-we-dont-need-warrants-for-e-mail-facebook-chats/

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:38 PM

13. Time to go to SCOTUS

 

Lots of people disagree w/me

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