The NSA Is Commandeering the Internet - TheAtlantic

[WillyT]

The NSA Is Commandeering the Internet
Technology companies have to fight for their users, or they'll eventually lose them.
BRUCE SCHNEIER - TheAtlantic
AUG 12 2013, 10:05 AM ET



<snip>

It turns out that the NSA's domestic and world-wide surveillance apparatus is even more extensive than we thought. Bluntly: The government has commandeered the Internet. Most of the largest Internet companies provide information to the NSA, betraying their users. Some, as we've learned, fight and lose. Others cooperate, either out of patriotism or because they believe it's easier that way.

I have one message to the executives of those companies: fight.

Do you remember those old spy movies, when the higher ups in government decide that the mission is more important than the spy's life? It's going to be the same way with you. You might think that your friendly relationship with the government means that they're going to protect you, but they won't. The NSA doesn't care about you or your customers, and will burn you the moment it's convenient to do so.

We're already starting to see that. Google, Yahoo, Microsoft and others are pleading with the government to allow them to explain details of what information they provided in response to National Security Letters and other government demands. They've lost the trust of their customers, and explaining what they do -- and don't do -- is how to get it back. The government has refused; they don't care.

It will be the same with you. There are lots more high-tech companies who have cooperated with the government. Most of those company names are somewhere in the thousands of documents that Edward Snowden took with him, and sooner or later they'll be released to the public. The NSA probably told you that your cooperation would forever remain secret, but they're sloppy. They'll put your company name on presentations delivered to thousands of people: government employees, contractors, probably even foreign nationals. If Snowden doesn't have a copy, the next whistleblower will.

This is why you have to fight. When it becomes public that the NSA has been hoovering up all of your users' communications and personal files, what's going to save you in the eyes of those users is whether or not you fought. Fighting will cost you money in the short term, but capitulating will cost you more in the long term.

Already companies are taking their data and communications out of the US.

The extreme case of fighting is shutting down entirely. The secure e-mail service Lavabit did that last week...

<snip>

More: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/08/the-nsa-is-commandeering-the-internet/278572/

[cantbeserious]

1. More And More Are Beginning To Awake To The Fact That Government Is Spying On Citizens

eom

[Cryptoad]

2. The Boogyman is coming too,,,, geeez

What surprises me is there are so many people in this day and age who were not aware that they are under surveillance and the Web is public domain!

lmao

[cantbeserious]

4. First They Came For ... Let's Hope They Don't Come For You

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Catholic.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

[Cryptoad]

14. Please,,,,,,,,

[peacebird]

27. Hey Toad, I prefer that my phone calls, mail, & email were private. As they should be unless there

is strong evidence that I have committed a crime.

[Cryptoad]

36. You can be thankful

that speculative conjecture is not recognized as "strong evidence" since a warrant from a court has to be attained before we start listening to your phone calls and such!

[Rex]

46. We?

[Cryptoad]

47. Yes WE!

We all are sitting around on pins and needles waiting for your next email or phone call to be accessed!


,,,,,, geeez

[Quantess]

49. "We"?

WTF. Freudian slip?

[RC]

6. The web itself may be public, but the information on it may not be.

E-mail, phone conversations, video conferences, HTTPS data. That "S" stands for secure, as in on-line banking.
If you think everything is public, let me catch you reading my E-mail and see how public the Internet is.

The biggest problem with Internet security, is our own government's illegal snooping.

[Cryptoad]

15. Like I said ,,,,

I am amazed that there are people like you out there! Love your Tea Party tactics, everthing in your post is laced with a little hate. You may be many things ,,, but a Democrat is not one them!

[WinkyDink]

19. Wondering about you.

[RC]

22. Are you sure you responded to the correct post?

If, by chance you did knowingly respond to me, please defend your insults to me.

As for your Reply title, a dash or 3 periods would be more appropriate. "15. Like I said -" or "15. Like I said..." Four commas in a row are not used anywhere.
Education is a wonderful thing. Get some.

[Cryptoad]

24. I worried about such things ,,,,,

when I wrote my first dissertation. But not so much for internet comment boards.... anything about my post you don't understand I will explain need be. Maybe you should defend your implied threats to me in your post.

Not meaning to insult you ,,,, just pointing out the similarity in your post and the way the Tea Party post. ,,,,you know,,, if the shoe fits

[RC]

25. What implied threat?

The E-mail was an example used to show that at least part of the Internet is not really public, but private.
I am one of the few original, real Liberals still left around here. I am far from any Tea-party mentality.

[Cryptoad]

37. However you

encrypt your email example,,, it is still is still public on the web albeit in encrypted form.

As far as you being an "original , real liberal" here . You may want to be more careful of any Tea Party tactics that may have unknowing rubbed off on you. No need to make threats real or implied.

btw,,,,You implied in your post above that something bad would happen to me if you caught me reading your private emails.

[RC]

41. If my E-mails are public, then anyone can read them. We should also be able to be able to read

anyone's E-mails.

As proof, read these E-mails: [e-mail]

[Cryptoad]

42. Here you can read one of mine

9R>/AL>/K#>/K#>/R1>9A:Lxy>/AL>/A#>/KA:&%>Q9:L^c>/A^>#y>Q9:+#>/K#>/KA
9T>@# Tv> 1/&?xaJ>Q# 1a/>Lx">L*M 9O>Q% 1/G:LxO>5* 9z>Q% 1aJ>LEx 1vO>&^?xaU>Lx">LxU>LxO>5* 9z>Q% 1aJ>LEx 1vO>&% 1aU>LEa>LEa>LEH>LEx Tv> J&?xaJ>LEx 1vO>#C 1/O>Lx">LEx 1a/>LxO>L*M OG:Lxv>LxO>89>#C 1/&?xaU>LxO>LEx 1vO>@% 1aU>LxO>L*x 1vO>#C 1/O>Q% 1/O>LEx 1vO>Q^?%C Ha>5* O&?x1/>LEa>LEx 1vO>&* 1/t>LE+ 1a/>5* Ha>LE8 1/t>Lxa>LEx 1vO>#% 1/t>Lx">LE% Tv>#E 1a">Lx1>Lxa>LEx 1vO>@+ 1aJ>Q% 1aU>LEH>5* OG:LEa>LEa>Lx">LEx 1/G:LxU>L*M Oz>Q% 1/O>LEx Tv>Lx1>LE* Tv>@M 1aU>Lx">LxO>LE8 1vO>@M 1aU>Lx">LxO>LE8 1/v>LEH>Q% JQ?xa/>L*M 9J>Q+ JQ?x19>Lxv>Q% 1/O>LEU>Lx1>Lxa>L*M Oz>Q% 1/O>LEx Tv>Lx1>LE* Tv>#E 1a/>LxO>LEU>LxO>LEU>Lx1>Lxa>L*M Oz>Q% 1/O>LEx Tv>@+ 1az>LEx JQ?x1O>LEx 1a2>L*M Hv>LEx JQ?x1/>LE+ 1aJ>LEx 1/2>LEa>LEx 1a2>5* O@?xvt>5* "2>8+ "t>L*M Hv>LEx JQ?x1/>LE+ 1aJ>LEx 1/2>LEa>LEx 1a2>5* O@?xvt>5* "2>GK:8x 1vO>&5?x1a>LxH>LEx 1/G:LxO>LEU>LEC J&?x1O>LEU>Lxa>LEC Tv>@% 1/t>LE+ 1aJ>5* "2>8+ "t>L*M 9T>Lxa>LxH>LEx 1/G:LxO>LEU>LEC J&?x1O>LEU>Lxa>LEC Tv>@% 1/t>LE+ 1aJ>5* "2>GK:8x 1vO>&5?x1a>LxH>LEx 1/G:LxO>LEU>LEC J&?x1O>LEU>Lxa>LEC Tv>@% 1/t>LE+ 1aJ>5* "2>GL?8x 1vO>@# J&?x1O>LEx Tv>@c 1a2>LE+ 1aU>LxO>LxO>LEx 1a2>5* 1/t>Lxa>5* Oz>LEx 1aJ>LEU>LxO>L*M Oz>LEx 1aJ>LEU>LxO>LxO>LEx 1a2>5* 9a>Lx">Lx1>LE+ 1vO>#* 1a/>Q+ 1a/>LEU>LxH>LEx 1a2>5* Oz>LEx 1aT>Lx">LEx 1a/>LxU>5* 9a>Lx">Lx1>LE+ 1vO>&5?x1a>LEU>LxO>LEU>Q% 1/O>LEx 1a2>L*M Ha>Q% 1/G:LxU>LEx 1a2>L*M Hv>Q% 1aU>LxU>LEx 1a2>L*M Ub>8H>5* HJ>LEx J&?x1">5* Ha>LEU>Lxa>5* Oz>Q% 1/O>LEx 1vO>G5?8H>5* HJ>LEx J&?x1">5* Oz>Q% 1/O>LEx Tv>#* 1a/>Q+ 1a/>LEU>LxH>LEx 1a2>L*M Ub>8H>5* HJ>LEx J&?x1">5* Ha>LEU>Lxa>5* Hv>LEx JQ?xa/>LEU>LxH>LEx 1a2>L*M Oz>LEx 1aJ>LEU>LxO>LxO>LEx 1a2>L*M HT> Ha>@# Tv>@# J&?x1O>LEx 1vO>#C 9z>#E Oz>L*M Hv>LEx 1/G:LxO>Lx1>Lx">LEx 1a2>L*M Oz>LEU>LEx 1a2>L*M Oz>LEx JQ?xa/>LxU>LEx 1a2>L*M OG:LEC 1a/>5* J&?x1O>5* Oz>LEx J&?x1O>LE8 1vO>@+ 1v2>Lxv>LEx 1az>LEH>LEx 1a2>L*M Oz>Q% 1/O>LEx Tv>@# 1/&?xa/>LxU>5* Ha>Q% 1aU>LEa>5* 1/O>Lx1>L*M Oz>Lx9>LEx 1/G:5* Hv>LEx 1aJ>LEU>Lxa>LEa>LEx 1/">L*M 9O>Q% 1/G:LxO>5* Hv>LEx 1aJ>LEU>Lxa>LEa>LEx 1/">5* HT>LEx 1/2>LxO>5* "2>5c "t>L*M Oz>Lx9>LEx 1/G:5* Ha>Q% 1aU>LEa>L*M Oz>Lx9>LEx 1/G:5* Ha>Q% 1aU>LEa>5* O@?xvt>5* 9O>Lx1>LEa>LEC 1a/>L*M 9T>Lxa>5* 9/>Lx1>Lx1>LEa>5* HT>LxO>Q% 1/2>LEa>LEU>Lxa>LEC 1vO>#U>Lxv>5* 9a>Lx1>Lx">5* HT> Ha>@# 1vO>&% 1aU>Lxa>LEU>LxU>LxO>LEx 1/">L*M Ha>LEx 1/">Lxv>LEx 1/O>Lx9>Q% 1az>5* Oz>Q% 1/O>LEx 1vO>#E 1a/>Lx">Lxv>LEx 1/O>Lx9>Q% 1az>L*M 9v>Lx1>LE+ 1a/>5* Oz>Lx1>Lxa>Q%

[RC]

43. Couldn't read my E-mails, huh? Didn't think so.

That was the invite. BTY, the E-mails at that address are not encrypted, either. Should be easy for you.
But anyway, I can do as you did. Yours seem to have a pattern to it.

¬ˆW¬G¨Z„â¾Ff"|€Á†˜Â4-rFïl„ÝÑ/âþë¡-“Ü$ïçÓ°Z¹2NP¾×‘šð÷›lŒ*nC¡—ÛЪž·â÷Áë´cb
gjkÒÕÜ~Äsk~jè‚ÕÔÐùÛ0!í1¾ ¹ôî‹!‘b$¯·Q®Èà²Þ\ká~+ŒcÏGQ#°Œ¡`=¾¡Ädq÷n8ú?Ii‰D[aBD|‚`‰ùâAŒ·cP[61O&: Ä,@+ø½ncW!×v¡¬UÕ{Öɱ—Wœ÷¹ ½do…›ÜRÖ»%dS_Á‹hA!_°Ç&ò•‹,¡ÍˆÈŒ¬¥l÷8ÖÚMÍd°Ä0ì«ã˜²_—lµ [y'év@®}7QnMgÌKE3ý1gŠæÍ*N/Kº¡íXë…þ|[f
veUôםþ aÅÞçßÄI·C 0œ¡Àkíx¤qx¡ªÉˆÍŠ"5¸ø·ñÓV=Ëfÿ»kçÇx®–ÊSÁdÑcN˜]:^ˆ\»V ÙGcÚß#1;L˜½^¢Iè–ºóʧ… X¹ˆ£E œêŸ‡TvÓÁüh¨þ@4êðî¿PQàü”[×G¦É~%d¤†‰ä¤M:++³ó“ZE>Ç×W‰;– ëä‹ë-¾§ÿ¤B/ê•Ý©¯
¢Ñìs’º¾»ü5XA0!sÊŽþ»T¯§i4´A¤1ÒàÂüX'ª¡æãÊíi܏È8² ÖâÝtC©y%zÛtð7WŒþ iîo«âügÀVL÷Q”!éû+?Œš–ÅñG;äÄ\½-î¨~‰:ë\eºK¬Cø¬TtÆAwòyÀn´Ÿ‹1½+ÛAË€â2éÇgžÀç*륂ªßkB‰èˆ‚i…ÄíKö",2Y–ŠDÂ(ÕIQX÷8Epa:ùr†ÏtŽ2¾*ïcäP¡ÜB£ ꜛ­I%E¨œ7À|ñY’Wümºì;ó›¹+[ªˆ#Ì ÁñÀ€òq!eRñhŒ´Ì9ÂA†jÏxÈ)o+}‚µõ–½þÜŸRÄ7x¬
:ßð¨ï1•¡<rž¹`Çjlñ6Ošµ©U*2ÊîÀj"¬[äàÆÓȤú\{ ”åÑ8¸˜5_]›ÈÏ\4)d´E7…g>b}¯U^XÚPßjæKqXì8–àîG3ïU<ñBcìÞ 0t"N™æðî©dÿì†^¾bËm{^Т˜‘ÎZ7.»éÃohjê æxÅ7(5ŽšaÉcÈÅ-Œ;KÆ
pØUGŠ{áÒ(™ÝºäYˆ`–îz¬Îfžè`lK&ú»Úx‚.á‘Z¸;B B{¸º¹‚™*"ûáû¤þ“sb<ù¢ù[5׋´Y¢Jñ#šŠHl¬-çb“t¬‹mfÙ0‡,]ÔKú±Ék_–¯ˆÓ/|gOW>6@2BÛdÿtë^ãCŸ?!¶¨ñC½ûBºº¯AJFX”G+r;AØdøæ ¶Š("tÑ<¦Ø?'np>6Õ¡”ìs,Ð+ ¯±ºOÛŸ®NèOç«kûdqj}é•_$îÉyKx@ø¼whoö–tºš³eWF¥C'5« Ñ™{RekbaÄ±i¹ É¤Œðv²I@5Ç1?cÐX•¨FùŸ ·Ç\Jczf„XqÍãjQ¼4þbù5#áÚ´›€Ì¡¼±a²=½†X¦A_-]$w8©íÆ‚iJ""¼I˜‡ë{è¡Êox@Ÿ8¢6(/œî&ÏÕU{ÿpÝOjn˜ƒ”]Áì)Üê"èXáíëf šˆ#^e¢W ¶v°0âŠ]=ïC»Ç®3™QÿÄjØÇŽ¿ÿ’]8.#u:¬è†rØê©GD

(Childish, I know, but I'm having fun.)

[Cryptoad]

44. Sorry,,,,

I didn't go to your site,,,, but I did send you an email you may send one to me it you like . ,,

Yes exchanging chicken scratching is childish fun. I sure you are as interest in mine as I am yours. Want to swap Keys?

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

11. Documented evidence make some "lmao"

More reasonable folks get concerned and educate themselves to challenge the totalitarians in gov.

[Cryptoad]

16. How funny

we still are waiting on that documented evidence of illegality.,,,,,,but alas nobody has produced anything but speculative conjecture. Strange that the Tea Party has the same problem producing their evidence !

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

17. Climate deniers

Say the same thing, even when you point them to the documented evidence.

Think about it...

[Cryptoad]

21. thats cause

they have no evidence to support their claims , yes indeed it is the same. the difference between fact and speculation is not in eye of the beholder.......

[Ed Suspicious]

12. I love this line of reasoning the best. "Come on" they say... "How can you not know this was going

on? Just accept it because the way it has been is the way it will always be" they imply. You people are like an apathy generating machine. The NSA and authoritarians in general love you people.

I do not.

[Cryptoad]

18. You have

the right to not like it and try to change it,, but not in making claims of illegality without producing any evidence to support your claims! Have you ever noticed that all of the Tea Party claims are never supported with any evidence just speculation and conjecture? Funny how peas in a pod stick together!

[Ed Suspicious]

20. It's an uphill battle fighting against the power of your "why bother" attitude, but

rest assured I am working on changing it.

[Cryptoad]

23. Good,,,, just dont proclaim

that it is illegal or unconstitutional. What changes do you want to make.?

[peacebird]

29. Why are we responding to the Toad? It seems to be a disruptor, at least in this thread

[Cryptoad]

38. Reasoned Debate? nt

Last edited Tue Aug 13, 2013, 12:41 PM - Edit history (1)

[bvar22]

45. "The TIP of the iceberg."

Snowden & Greenwald proved right once again
to the deep embarrassment of those attacking him.

[Heather MC]

3. Oh no, Uncle Sam knows about my fetish for tranny porn omg what am I going to do???

It's just like with napsters the technology is out there. Since when has the Government let go of a new toy? Even if they came out with a statement saying they have stopped spying on us, it would be a lie. Thanks to computers, they can literally see into our living rooms. How do you put that Genie back in the bottle?

[zeemike]

7. You have nothing to fear.

As long as you keep your mouth shut and do what you are told...
But step out of line and that granny porn will be probable cause for them to break down your door in the middle of the night and take you down...and they have peeps that just love to do that.

[Heather MC]

10. NOT Granny Porn

Tranny porn

Granny porn is for the real sickos
lol

[Warren DeMontague]

35. What would you rather have Grandpa watch?

Oh, right, "The Mentalist"

[Amonester]

30. Granny porn LOLOLOLOL

I come to DU when I need a good laugh nowadays.

Thanks for the LOLs.

[Taitertots]

9. I guess you never have to worry about people infringing on your rights when you never exercise them

[Android3.14]

13. Sure, this is about porn

Don't be naive.

[olddots]

8. I think the second proffesion people came up with was spying

[niyad]

26. k and r

[NightWatcher]

28. well shit, you've got a picture with words on it

Cant argue with that.

No one's reading your emails or tracking your google searches, you're way too boring and they've got a job to do.

[newfie11]

31. K&R

[MotherPetrie]

32. K&R

[Wilms]

33. ^

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. We have to trust the government because they don't trust us. Or, something like that.

[bemildred]

39. Mr. SCHNEIER, like Mr. ZIMMERMAN, knows whereof he speaks.

It is a mark of the stupidity of these CEOs that they have to be told this sort of thing, that screwing the customers is bad for business.

[Octafish]

40. The one honest TELCO exec got railroaded.

No good act goes unpunished when evil rules: The ONE and ONLY Telcom executive to oppose the illegal surveillance got railroaded on insider trading -- the very same law that all the Wall Street insiders and their toadies on Capitol Hill somehow circumvent. What a coincidence!

Something's rotten in Denmark and Washington.

[Rex]

48. Indeed something is rotten all over the globe!

Look at all the snoopers going off script...all because they cannot keep the same story going. Got to keep the MIC and Wall Street fed at all costs doncha know!?!