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Segami

(14,923 posts)
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 10:44 AM Aug 2013

WHY David Miranda's Detention Should MAKE YOU NERVOUS





David Miranda, who was detained for eight hours and 55 minutes by British authorities over the weekend because they thought he was carrying NSA documents for The Guardian, is taking legal action against the government — a move that could crystallize the conflict between state security and journalism. The British government's conflation of journalism with terrorism in the case of David Miranda is problematic largely because journalism, like terrorism, is no longer performed by discrete, centralized entities. Instead, journalists and those performing journalism around the world operate in small cells or individually. You post a video of police detaining a suspect to your Facebook wall, and you're committing an act of journalism — one that authority figures may not see as subject to First — or Fourth — Amendment protections. In the battle with the security state, those who might commit acts of journalism have three choices: acquiesce, push back, or step away.



Miranda, who is Guardian reporter Glenn Greenwald's partner, is choosing option two. The BBC reports that Miranda is taking legal action of an unspecified nature, challenging his detention and seeking to prevent the government from reading the information on the devices it collected. What that information is may only be known by filmmaker Laura Poitras, the person with whom it originated in Berlin, but there's little doubt it includes encrypted files related to the Snowden leaks. The British Home Office released a statement about the Miranda incident. It reads, in part:



If the police believe that an individual is in possession of highly sensitive stolen information that would help terrorism, then they should act and the law provides them with a framework to do that. Those who oppose this sort of action need to think about what they are condoning.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2013/aug/20/david-miranda-detention-latest-developments#block-52134c65e4b0687f4f8683f7




The most important word in that statement is "would." Not "could" help terrorism — a standard so loose that it might apply to millions of pieces of information and real-world objects. But "would." The British appear to be echoing the NSA's line that detailing how the government does its work is itself an aid to terrorists. (A claim perhaps undermined by the recent embassy closures.) It also appears to echo the argument made by the government in the Bradley Manning case: publishing information is aiding the enemy. There are some to whom this argument is compelling. The British paper The Telegraph defends the authorities' action in detaining Miranda, as does the editor of Kernal magazine. (His article begins "PRISM blogger Glenn Greenwald’s Brazilian boyfriend, David Miranda…," providing a clear indicator of where his argument was headed.)



Rising to the defense of the American government is Jeffrey Toobin of the New Yorker. Toobin was criticized for his critique of the Snowden leaks earlier this month; Tuesday's essay is a continuation of that critique. "To be sure, Snowden has prompted an international discussion about surveillance," Toobin argues, "but it’s worthwhile to note that this debate is no academic exercise. It has real costs." Those costs are literal — the NSA having to build new surveillance systems — and figurative: "What if there is no pervasive illegality in the National Security Agency’s surveillance programs?" Toobin states that there is "no proof of any systemic, deliberate violations of law" revealed by Snowden, then noting of the Post revelations about privacy violations that "it’s far from clear, at this point, that the N.S.A.’s errors amounted to a major violation of law or an invasion of privacy." Incidental violations of privacy law, averaging seven a day, are acceptable to Toobin, as a cost-saving measure. Those specific defenses aside, the intentions of the British authorities cannot be considered outside of the context of their behavior. Late Monday afternoon, Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger revealed the paper's encounters with British authorities over this information. In a weirdly archaic move, representatives of the government's intelligence arm physically destroyed hard drives containing Snowden information, as though that limited their ability to travel. The authorities threatened Rusbridger, prompting the paper to decide to move its reporting on the topic out of the country. And then there's the treatment of Miranda himself. For eight hours, he was denied the right to his own counsel. The end result was confiscation of his electronic media, something that could have been accomplished in less than an hour. But, Reuters reported on Monday, that wasn't all that the authorities hoped to accomplish.



One U.S. security official told Reuters that one of the main purposes of the British government's detention and questioning of Miranda was to send a message to recipients of Snowden's materials, including the Guardian, that the British government was serious about trying to shut down the leaks.



In other words, intimidation.




cont'




http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/08/why-miranda-detention-should-make-you-nervous/68519/
40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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WHY David Miranda's Detention Should MAKE YOU NERVOUS (Original Post) Segami Aug 2013 OP
And the surveillance state flips into police state mode. n/t Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #1
+1 newfie11 Aug 2013 #4
K & R AzDar Aug 2013 #2
Your FUD-riffic capitalization certainly makes me dubious. tridim Aug 2013 #3
Ah,...too bad! Segami Aug 2013 #6
Yes, FUD is bad. nt tridim Aug 2013 #7
Its a new tactic in the War on Terror.... HooptieWagon Aug 2013 #5
In a weird way that makes perfect sense. That is what's happening. Little Star Aug 2013 #8
Obama's Stealing My FREEDUMBS and LIBERTEES!!! Skraxx Aug 2013 #10
My President right or wrong. TM99 Aug 2013 #16
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #18
Example number....oh hell I have lost count... TM99 Aug 2013 #20
Color Code ORANGE ALERT!!! Be AFRAID!! Be VERY Afraid!!! Skraxx Aug 2013 #9
People cheering the increasing loss of freedom frighten me as much Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #12
+1 Segami Aug 2013 #13
And then some is right. avaistheone1 Aug 2013 #34
Good little Germans. HooptieWagon Aug 2013 #14
Agreed, I think they should join forces with their Broward Aug 2013 #15
I Feel My Freedumbs Slipping Away! Damn You Obama! Everyone Freak Out! Skraxx Aug 2013 #17
Listen carefully: Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #24
He doesn't care. You've hurt his president's feelings so he must respond. last1standing Aug 2013 #33
You should post this as an op. Thanks! n/t dgibby Aug 2013 #37
Thanks, I have. Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #38
+1 Segami Aug 2013 #39
Don't worry, Obama will protect your Freedumbs. last1standing Aug 2013 #31
No kidding. I expect GCHQ and NSA to behave this way. GliderGuider Aug 2013 #21
Your input is lacking from NorthCarolina Aug 2013 #30
Recommend... It's chilling isn't it...all that's being revealed. KoKo Aug 2013 #11
I think their problem is far deeper than the specific information Snowden liberated. GliderGuider Aug 2013 #22
This "should make me nervous" yet BumRushDaShow Aug 2013 #19
I can walk & chew gum. TM99 Aug 2013 #23
+1 Segami Aug 2013 #25
Two questions for you: ljm2002 Aug 2013 #28
Ouch! NorthCarolina Aug 2013 #29
Not BumRush, however, the posts are all over DU. lark Aug 2013 #35
It is one and the same. JDPriestly Aug 2013 #36
To Jeffrey Toobin: grasswire Aug 2013 #26
k and r nashville_brook Aug 2013 #27
Remember the good old days? Coyotl Aug 2013 #32
K&R idwiyo Aug 2013 #40
 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
5. Its a new tactic in the War on Terror....
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 10:55 AM
Aug 2013

They can't eliminate terrorists, so they eliminate the freedoms the terrorists hate us for.

Response to TM99 (Reply #16)

Skraxx

(3,178 posts)
9. Color Code ORANGE ALERT!!! Be AFRAID!! Be VERY Afraid!!!
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 11:09 AM
Aug 2013

Only the Greewald can save you!

 

Fire Walk With Me

(38,893 posts)
12. People cheering the increasing loss of freedom frighten me as much
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 11:15 AM
Aug 2013

as those purposely stealing it.

Broward

(1,976 posts)
15. Agreed, I think they should join forces with their
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 11:20 AM
Aug 2013

authoritarian brethren in the Republican Party rather than try to hijack this one.

 

Fire Walk With Me

(38,893 posts)
24. Listen carefully:
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 11:41 AM
Aug 2013

"The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) is an amendment to the United States Constitution and part of the Bill of Rights. It prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures and requires any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. It was adopted in response to the abuse of the writ of assistance, a type of general search warrant issued by the British Government and a major source of tension in pre-Revolutionary America.

Under the Fourth Amendment, search and seizure (including arrest) should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer who has sworn by it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

-Eliminating "general" warrants
-Requires warrants
-Protection from unlimited scope for arrest
-Prohibits unreasonable searches and seizure of person and personal property

BUT

DHS Watchdog: ‘Intuition and Hunch’ Are Enough to Search Your Gadgets at Border
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/border-gadget-searches/

DHS can search and seize your personal electronics on a hunch anywhere along the US border and up to 100 miles inland.

AND

NDAA Case: Indefinite Detention Injunction Does Irreparable Harm, Obama Admin. Lawyers Argue

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/14/ndaa-case-indefinite-dentention_n_1885204.html

Obama has twice signed and once defended in court the NDAA section 1021 which provides for the indefinite detention of US citizens (and anyone in the world) with neither trial nor representation.

There goes the Fourth Amendment. Period.

Now note the Sixth Amendment:

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Through NDAA's section 1021 we also lose
-The right to a speedy and public trial
-An impartial jury
-Compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in our favor
-The assistance of counsel for our defence.

There goes the Sixth Amendment. Period.

I don't have time to list what's been done to the 1st, but the bones are strewn all about you. LOOK AT THE BONES, MAN!

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
33. He doesn't care. You've hurt his president's feelings so he must respond.
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 01:34 PM
Aug 2013

Not everyone who doesn't support reigning in the NSA is an authoritarian, but that one definitely is.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
31. Don't worry, Obama will protect your Freedumbs.
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 01:32 PM
Aug 2013

You'll always be free to be as dumb as you like, as your posts attest.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
21. No kidding. I expect GCHQ and NSA to behave this way.
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 11:33 AM
Aug 2013

DUers, not so much. I'm simultaneously saddened, terrified and resigned.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
11. Recommend... It's chilling isn't it...all that's being revealed.
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 11:14 AM
Aug 2013

It seems a mad, desperate push. There must be some really devastating information that Snowden has that there is this kind of pushback.

Also, going into the Guardian Newspaper and destroying their Hard Drives...to show their thuggish desperation. So obvious...it is like the STASI revisited.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
22. I think their problem is far deeper than the specific information Snowden liberated.
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 11:35 AM
Aug 2013

The spotlight this is shining on their cockroach activities jeopardizes the entire future of the authoritarian program. It threatens their power source.

BumRushDaShow

(169,758 posts)
19. This "should make me nervous" yet
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 11:28 AM
Aug 2013

This shit is okay



Fuck that. DU has some fucking misplaced priorities.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
23. I can walk & chew gum.
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 11:40 AM
Aug 2013

Can you?

I disapprove of both -specious laws like Stop & Frisk AND detaining journalists' spouse under bogus terrorism laws.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
28. Two questions for you:
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 01:04 PM
Aug 2013

1 - where are your OPs on the Stop and Frisk laws, over the last 6 months? Because I couldn't find any. Your priorities must be really screwed up.

2 - please link to any threads where DUers state their approval of the Stop and Frisk laws. If you can find any, please make note of which DUers support it vs support for NSA spying, and vice versa.

I don't think your little riposte here has much going for it, frankly.

lark

(26,081 posts)
35. Not BumRush, however, the posts are all over DU.
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 01:35 PM
Aug 2013

Many in DU support the NSA because Obama is president so therefore anything the NSA doing is totally legal. Check out any posts by ProSense, it's there for anyone to see.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
36. It is one and the same.
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 01:44 PM
Aug 2013

The stop and search and frisk is in New York what the internet searches are in the rest of the country.

We don't get stopped and frisked. We see it.

The surveillance program brings the reality of stop and frisk to the internet highway. It's one and the same repression.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
26. To Jeffrey Toobin:
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 12:48 PM
Aug 2013

If you are so concerned about the cost/benefits of NSA, why not just cut the budget by half? The ROI ain't so great right now, you know.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
32. Remember the good old days?
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 01:33 PM
Aug 2013

When they had to place a microphone somewhere. Yeah, I was nervous forty years ago!

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