How Many Here Love The Fact That We've Gone From Democratic Base... To "Far Left" ???

[WillyT]

WOW !!!







I don't love it... but it IS DAMNED INSTRUCTIVE !!!

[LongTomH]

1. My heroes are still FDR, Truman, JFK and MLK

All proud members of the 'Far Left.'

[WillyT]

3. Mine Too, But...

You will hear... In Places I Won't mention...

You will hear them knocked for current political concerns.

[leftstreet]

4. And they weren't 'far left'

Not meant to disrespect your post, they're fine American heroes but were in no way 'far left'

[WillyT]

17. Funny Thing... They Weren't... Until Now...

Hell man... Even Reagan seems moderate these days.

[1awake]

38. Reagan WAS moderate next to some members even here on DU. n/t

Hell man... Even Reagan seems moderate these days.

and i say some, meaning very few and not everyone defending the NSA "stuff".

[MADem]

82. That's some serious "revisionist history."

FDR, Truman and JFK were all proponents of a strong military. They were virulent anti-communists.

FDR jailed American citizens in camps because they were of Japanese ancestry. He guided the development of the atom bomb.

Truman dropped that bomb and oversaw a war in Korea.

JFK was a Cold Warrior par excellence, and sent special forces and advisors to Vietnam.

I doubt MLK would have endorsed equality.

Proud members of the "Far Left?"

That's only if the far left is to the right of anyone here.

[JEB]

2. Ike would be a leftist to some of these so called Democrats.

[Savannahmann]

5. Man to some of these folks

The Kaiser would be a leftist.

[MannyGoldstein]

76. Ike insisted on a 91% top tax rate

And everyone did fine.

Can you imagine how that would play on DU today if, say, Sen. Warren proposed it?

Yikes!

[kentuck]

6. They look at the "far left" as the Tea Party branch of the Democratic Party.

In reality, it is they that are the "tea baggers" of the Progressive Democratic Party and it is they that hinder progress.

[bluestate10]

11. Kentuck the far Left is not the Democratic base.

The New Jersey primary showed that. The far Left launched vicious attacks on Corey Booker, yet Booker won around 58% of the primary vote while the candidate the far Left backed took 17%. Take into account that primaries should be where the far Left has shown the most influence. The far Left couldn't engineer a race that was loaded in their favor, what makes you consider them the Democratic "Base"? The base is more like people like me, a reality based Center-Left person.

Put up a good fight in Kentucky, Mitch has to go for the good of Kentucky and the country.

[kentuck]

36. The "far left" is not the far left either....

That is what some prefer to call it. That is why it is in quotation marks.

[bluestate10]

7. The far Left never was and is not currently the Democratic base. Let's get that straight.

The Democratic base is the large Left-Center and Center groups that underpin the party and the country.

[Cerridwen]

9. They were by default. At least those who could stomach the options

of supports business and some of my rights versus supports business and none of my rights.

If any of the "far left" continued to participate in electoral politics, they voted Democrat.

The rest faded from view in disgust.

Well, if by "far left" you mean:

What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

The "far left;" the 21st "liberal" boogeyman of the "The New Democrat" and the right.

Link to PBS from the old days: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/primary-resources/jfk-nyliberal/

[bluestate10]

16. The definition you printed describes no one at the Center or far Left.

Democrats have proven to be good government stewards. Look at economic history of the country and states under Democrats and republicans. Democrats win the economic performance battle by a large margin.

You printed rightwing drivel. The paragraph that you posted is what I read from rightwing posters.

[Cerridwen]

19. Quoting JFK from PBS is right-wing drivel?

That it does not represent The Party of Democrats today is made agonizingly apparent by your post.


Yep. It's the Twilight Zone on DU.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

33. You gave a really close shave there.

+1

[Cerridwen]

34. Yeah, JFK's definition of liberal is always really close.

Ooooof.....Duuuuuuuuh!

[Starry Messenger]

42. Kapow!

[Marr]

75. +1

That was awfully revealing.

[wilsonbooks]

79. Yes and provided a quick end to the conversation.

Knockout.

[cascadiance]

32. Heck, it used to be not just the far left that always said NO to those attacking Social Security...

It used to be the whole Democratic Party and those who would be considered "commies" today in yesterday's Republican Party like Eisenhower, who called those who would try to cut or attack social security explicitly STUPID!

Times have changed with *managed* perception of what constitutes the "far left" by our more unprecedented corporate controlled media, etc. of today, amongst other corporatists empowered by the likes of the Koch Brothers and Citizen's United ruling.

[Go Vols]

71. +1

[burnodo]

10. "left-center"

there's a new pip from the same people who eschewed the term Liberal because the Republicans told them to

[bluestate10]

24. I don't give a shit about republicans, I want that party to vanish quickly. What I do care

about are people that claim to be progressives but who behave in a way that is detrimental to gaining their ultimate goals. When a republican gets elected because some can't see reason and get the fuck off the "purity" delusion and vote with rational Democrats and Independents , the country loses. I got my fill of the far Left when they almost threw out a person who is likely the best Governor in the country now during the 2010 elections. For the goodness of my state, Independents showed up and helped sane Democrats re-elect the Governor by a comfortable margin of 6 points.

[kentuck]

39. The part of the Party that you define as the "base" of the Party....

Do not criticize NSA spying, cutting Social Security, do not promote a single payer healthcare system, do not usually support labor issues, etc. They stand for what the Party establishment stands for. I shudder to think where we would be in five years if left to their devices. It is easy to criticize those that fight for a progressive (far left) agenda but our Party would disappear without them.

[TreasonousBastard]

22. Don't waste your breath...

at least half of these digital dimwits who think they are revolutionaries would shit their pants if they were in the UMW back in the old days. Or were in the Pullman strike. Or the many, many women's marches.

And, lest we forget, in those days the sainted Democratic Party did kinda look out for the little guy as long as city little guys paid homage to the machine and rural little guys kept Jim Crow alive.

The kind of calling out we see all the time here is bullshit-- the "far left" when Trotskyites still existed is long gone. Last I heard of them was in the 60s with marathon discussions on WBAI from some cellar where 6 old guys argued over some minutiae in Lenin's letters.

[quakerboy]

57. Damn lousy kids. Get offa my Lennin

nt

[HardTimes99]

67. I understand where you're coming from I think, but I do want to point out that I saw some

amazing feats of courage and self-restraint among members of Occupy Los Angeles in the face of what can only be politely called 'LAPD provocations'. I don't know whether the OLA folks I came to know would have compared favorably to the UMW or IWW members you reference, but my wife and I were impressed. From what I read here and elsewhere, similar acts of courage and bravery were manifest at numerous other Occupy sites across the U.S. and internationally.

[dflprincess]

47. You're missing the point

The Democratic party has moved so far to the right that positions that were once part of mainstream Democratic thought are now considered "far left".

[HardTimes99]

68. And what used to be considered the 'far left' has been reduced, thanks to bi-partisan attacks from

the 1940s-60s, to little more than small groups who sell newspapers and man tables at anti-war rallies. There is a huge vacuum in politics on the left in this country and it's almost a truism to say that politics abhors a vacuum.

[burnodo]

8. the BASE is closer to the CENTER than you far-black-helicopting-hysterical leftists want to think!

And you just remember that the next time you're in the voting booth and we SCREAM in your ear about HOW YOU WILL BE RESPONSIBLE IF THE REPUKE WINS!

[PowerToThePeople]

13. They need to earn our votes.

It is on you/them if we cast third party and "the 3rd way party" loses to Republicans.

[burnodo]

15. They don't see it that way

To them, you are not allowed to vote for anyone except Dems and if you do you're really a Republican orLibertarian or don't care about the poor, the sick, and puppies

[burnodo]

54. Careful!

I want you to last here at DU

[PowerToThePeople]

55. (scratching my head)

PowerToThePeople
Account status: Active
Member since: Thu Dec 23, 2004, 12:52 AM

burnodo
Account status: Active
Member since: Mon Apr 22, 2013, 02:34 PM


I have been through the ringer more than once in my time here. I have even had to step away for a extended time when it got real bad. I'll keep on keeping on.....

[NYC_SKP]

58. I think your Nader poster is going to be removed.

Don't pull that shit around here, even if your joking.

[burnodo]

59. Advocating for a presidential choice that is not a Democrat is not allowed

just want to make sure the guillotine doesnt fall on you

[Raksha]

70. It looks like you joined DU at about the same time I did:

Right after Karl Rove and Ken Blackwell stole the Ohio vote for Bush. I remember very well how nobody was allowed to talk about it even on any other liberal discussion board except for DU. Not even on DKos. So except for a few mental health breaks, I've been here ever since.

[burnodo]

62. sorry

I dont always use the sarcasm tag

[Luminous Animal]

12. I was informed today that neo-DUers in our midst but the accuser hasn't graced me

with a definition of that term yet so I am not sure to whom it applies.

[TreasonousBastard]

23. Basically, it's anyone the accuser doesn't agree with.

[IDemo]

44. Or an Amateur?

[DCBob]

14. Political parties do evolve..

along with everything else on this planet.

[burnodo]

18. The political parties of note in this country have "evolved" to the right in recent decades

is that evolution or devolution?

[WillyT]

20. Or In This Case...DEvolve...

[bluestate10]

28. You're wasting your time. Some people on DU, including the OP view themselves as the

only righteous among us. The fact is that every Administration and Congress makes change in either a Leftward or rightward direction. Even the best Democratic Administrations normally end up with less than a handful of progressive legislation that stands the test of time. Democratic Administrations that follow long term republican administrations have a tough time, they have to first reverse decline before pushing more progress, that is something the far Left "purists" can't seem to grasp.

[burnodo]

45. "They first have to reverse the decline"

The decline they allowed by being so incredibly weak and rudderless?

[kenny blankenship]

66. amd sometimes they go down the shitter.

[Hydra]

21. lol at the comments you got

The canned talking points crack me up.

Except the journalists as terrorists thing. I may have called that a month ago, but it freaks me the hell out.

BTW, I was "Far Left" during the Bush Era when the "sensible" democrats came along and said that torture and drones were fine. I think in their minds I'm so far out there that they need to ship me in for re-education.

Funny how rule of law is now considered a far left position.

[WillyT]

27. Well... They Did Not Disapoint... Did They ???

[HardTimes99]

69. Here's how the "sensible" Dems collaborated in war crimes and crimes against humanity. Back in

October of 2002, then-House Minority Leader Richard Gebhardt and then-Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle agreed at a Rose Garden Concordat with Bush to take Iraq "off the table" for the 2002 mid-term elections. No problem UNLESS YOU WERE ONE OF THE 7 MILLION IRAQIS SUBSEQUENTLY KILLED, WOUNDED or DISPLACED INTERNALLY OR EXTERNALLY FOR A FUCKING LIE!

That little travesty was brought to us by those self-same "sensible" democrats you reference, some of whom (Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden) will stake a claim to the nomination in 2016, some of whom have already been utterly disgraced (Dianne Feinstein, John Kerry).

[babylonsister]

25. Hey!

The instigator!

[WillyT]

35. Just Trying To Keep It Lively...

[msongs]

26. unfortunately current dems leadership is from the republican wing of the democratic party nt

[forestpath]

30. +1

[HooptieWagon]

29. I used to be happily in the center of the party, part of the "base".

Now I'm regarded as the "far left". <shrug>
Well, I'm not going to vote for corporatists and Big Bro anymore, so if the Party leaves me behind in its extreme tilt to the Right, then so be it. Fuck the DLC....hard.

[forestpath]

31. +1

[Raksha]

65. I stopped voting for corporatists and Big Bro in 2012.

After a lifetime of voting a straight Democratic ticket (starting in 1968), I finally decided I was through voting for the proverbial "lesser of two evils." I voted for Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate, and I don't regret it for one minute.

I stayed away from DU during the election season because I knew I couldn't announce my intentions here, but that didn't make me any less determined. I just could not bring myself to vote for Obama a second time. He's a bought and paid for corporatist, and he proved it over and over again during his first term. Of course I'm in California so there was no chance of a strong third-party showing throwing the election to Mitt Romney, but I really think I would have done it anyway. The only reason I kept my Democratic Party registration is so I can vote in the Democratic primaries.

NO WAY will I vote for Hillary in 2016. She's a DLC corporatist through and through, and her time has come and gone. From now on I vote for Progressives, not necessarily Democrats.

[uponit7771]

37. WE!?!!?? thx

[WillyT]

40. What... You're Not A Democrat ???

And I apologize if you are... and I just didn't get it...

But if you could do me this JUST ONE FAVOR...

Explain what being a Democrat means to you...

Ya know... personally...



Thanks in advance.

[uponit7771]

41. Not a purist lefty (my meme, I started it dammit !! )

[DirkGently]

43. Also fascinating that "far left" now means "not far right."

[kentuck]

46. I don't recognize my Party in the above discussion?

Certainly not the centrist partisan hacks. I admit that I am far to the left of those folks. I will not support nor vote for such politicians. Because, to me, they are not Democrats.

[MotherPetrie]

48. Very instructive. Proud to be a member of the far left.

[markpkessinger]

49. Indeed . . .

Any discussion of a "far left" in this country these days is a complete and utter absurdity.

[Douglas Carpenter]

50. I'm just glad they dropped that "Libertarian right" bullshit. But even they didn't believe it for

one single second. So, I guess they realized they weren't fooling anyone. So they are are back to their usual, "far left" meme.

[Autumn]

52. Anything not dead center or center right is the "Far Left" to some people here

As far as I'm concerned Jim Hightower is right "There's Nothing in the Middle of the Road but Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos"

[burnodo]

61. and centrist Democrats

[gopiscrap]

53. My heros are RFK FDR and MLK

typical people fall into that right wing trap and try to leave even moderates a far left...the tea party needs to think about their life in the glass house!

[Recursion]

64. OK, but FDR was absolutely hammered from the populist left of his day

Mercilessly.

[Hydra]

74. As he should have been

Capitalism was shown to be a failure, and he opted to rehabilitate it rather than doing something different and better. The fat cats like Prescott Bush still hated him despite him saving their system for them, and he merely put off the final reckoning that we're seeing now.

In the process, the illusion was forged that you can regulate capitalism and make it work for you. You can't. A chained tiger is still a tiger, and it will happily maul you when you let your guard down. The Reagan years were the unchaining.

Now is the great question- will the love of money kill our species? Grab some popcorn...

[QC]

60. Well, after being a Paulite Libertarian for these past few weeks,

Far Left feels like a promotion.

[Recursion]

63. So, here's the thing. Both parties' "bases" are on the right of their coalitions, currently.

At the national level, Republicans have a conservative base and a moderate fringe while Democrats have a moderate base and a liberal fringe. National GOP candidates have to go to the right because that's where the national votes are, and national Democratic candidates have to go to the party's right (the country's center or so) because that's where the national votes are. The distribution is not Gaussian.

[joshcryer]

78. This is what it looks like:

The only way to measure ones party polarization is to contrast and compare them: http://voteview.com/political_polarization.asp



Note: most importantly, the erosion of the moderate democrat:

[Go Vols]

72. Based on today's definition

I am far left and have been for over 35 years.It wasn't far left then,it was being a Democrat.

Edit: I am still Liberal also.

[LeftyMom]

73. According to "loyal Democrats" who make Nixon look like a pinko?

[Marr]

77. The self-described "centrists" are the right-wing of the party. For some reason,

we've accepted the idea that a centrist is at some sort of halfway point between far left and far right. But there is no such point.

What's halfway between trickle down economics and Keynesian economics? Halfway between coddling Wall Street and breaking up the banks? We're talking about two completely different directions.

"Centrist" really ought to describe someone who is at the center of the party. Anyone who's ok with things like the TPP is not a centrist, they're the fringe right of the Democratic Party.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

80. A++++

Well said!

[felix_numinous]

83. Well said!

[Dragonfli]

89. Centrists are NOT and NEVER have been "a halfway point between far left and far right"

"What's halfway between trickle down economics and Keynesian economics?" was never the question the centrists were asking and was never their intention to find. Their stated goal and purpose is to find a center between right wing economic Reagan conservatism and left wing social justice issues, the never intended to temper the rights conservative excesses with liberal Keynesian solutions, they chose the entire right wing fiscal package and only wish to talk compromise on social issues. People need to know this enemy and their history, we must avoid the misconception tat they are anything other than Republican concerning fiscal policies as some would now have us believe.

A quick primer below: (there is much more to know about the 30 year "Reaganization" effort against our party which is responsible for shifted us so far to the right of center regarding all but social issues, but a few key facts should get the less politically informed started on understanding "Centrists" and how much damage has been done by them, I do believe these are things you already know Marr, so this is more for the less clued among us regarding the history and goals of the New Democrat right wing DLC infestation).

New Democrats, in the politics of the United States, are an ideologically centrist faction within the Democratic Party that emerged after the victory of Republican George H. W. Bush in the 1988 presidential election. They are identified with centrist social/cultural/pluralist positions and neoliberal fiscal values. They are represented by organizations such as the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), the New Democrat Network, and the Senate and House New Democrat Coalitions.

After the landslide electoral losses to Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, a group of prominent Democrats began to believe their party was in need of a radical shift in economic policy and ideas of governance. The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) was founded in 1985 by Al From and a group of like-minded politicians and strategists. They advocated a political "Third Way" as a method to achieve the electoral successes of Reaganism by adopting similar economic policies (Reagan Democrats and Moderate Republicans would provide burgeoning new constituencies after adding these new economic policies and politicians to our tent they contended) While hoping to retain, woman, minorities and other social issues allies with long ties to the party. Such would be their new Democratic coalition forged between fiscal right and social left under the "New" Democratic banner.

The term Third Way refers to various political positions which try to reconcile right-wing and left-wing politics by advocating a varying synthesis of right-wing economic and left-wing social policies. Third Way was created as a serious re-evaluation of political policies within various centre-left progressive movements in response to international doubt regarding the economic viability of the state; economic interventionist policies that had previously been popularized by Keynesianism and contrasted with the corresponding rise of popularity for neo liberalism and the New Right. In a sense, 80s Moderate Republicans are almost identical to "Third Way" Democrats, one reason I found Obama's statement that he was, policy wise, closest to an 80's Republican refreshingly honest and at the time I gave him kudos for his honesty.

[Marr]

90. You're absolutely right-- the reality is something that would never, ever sell if they

stated it openly.

Two parties with identical economic and foreign policies, distinguished only by their positions on social issues that don't cost the 1% a single dime. They're Coke and Pepsi-- same product, slightly different advertising.

[LWolf]

91. +1,000,000 nt

[Rowdyboy]

81. Du is not now nor ever has been representative of the Democratic base...While progressives have

long been a key element of the base they have rarely been the majority and when they have had control (1972, 1984) the results were disastrous.

Just an example....multiple DU polls over the last ten years have shown that a large majority (65-85%) are either atheist or Wiccan. Dennis Kucinich was the odds on favorite for president in 2004/2008. Ralph Nader, long forgotten by most Americans, remains a huge favorite of a sizeable chunk of DUers, both longtime and newbies.

DU is a great site but it is not any way reflective of the Democratic party's base. I really wish it was-the country could make enormous progress if leftist ideas became mainstream but so far that hasn't happened.

And we spend most of our time fighting each other instead of working to push progressive ideals like voting rights, abortion rights and criminal reform.

[felix_numinous]

84. It wouldn't be so strange if

people were just against whistleblowing--but now it seems that it is not so simple. I can understand a difference of opinion on one issue.

Now we are supposed to believe that anyone for human, constitutional or civil rights are not the base of the Democratic Party.

This is downright creepy people. Something is very wrong here.

[Summer Hathaway]

85. The "Democratic Base"

is now, always has been, and always will be those who support the Democratic Party and vote for Democrats.

That "base" is comprised of centrists and far leftists, and everything in between.

If you advocate for third parties, describe Democrats as being 'no different' than Republicans, vow not to vote unless your demands are met, and/or encourage divisiveness among party members, you are NOT "the base".

I hope that is 'instructive' enough for you. But somehow I doubt it.

[pnwmom]

86. Those among us who consider themselves 3rd party or no-party progressives have never

been part of the Democratic base.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

87. Anyone who says that the Democrats are a party of the extreme left

Would not recognize an extreme leftist if he were walking down the street, waving a red banner and singing the Internationale.

[LWolf]

88. Willy, it was pointed out to me on my own thread

that the shift happened officially on DU in the move to DU3; I was feeling it before, but that's when it became official.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023497526#post16

Note all the terms used to refer to "extreme-fringe left-wingers," when DU formerly self-identified as a left-wing discussion group.

Outside of DU, I'd say that shift became official the moment the Democratic Party nominated, and then elected, someone who admired Ronald Reagan for "changing the trajectory" away from the "excesses of the 60s and 70s."

That was pretty clear to me.

That's certainly been my experience, though: from Democratic Base to "Far Left" and under the bus.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

92. In matters of conscience, the law of majority has no place. - Gandhi

I've been here since 2001 and most of the arguments/divisions are between the Left Democrats and Right Democrats. The 2016 primary season will highlight that vigor.

The Democratic party since the civil war has swung from moderate left to moderate right. Unfortunately, it's never been far left. Hence the it's the "not as bad" party for some leftists. For some of us, "not as bad" in some cases is acceptable, i.e. Democratic candidates in red states who are lukewarm on gun control. In other cases, it's not, i.e. Democratic candidates who are anti-abortion rights.

Being in the "far left" minority doesn't diminish what we stand for.

[Scuba]

93. I'm a far-left radical, supporting such things as Social Security and Medicare for All.

[Enthusiast]

94. The Democratic base is not 'far left'.

That's the problem. It's an inaccurate meme.

[WillyT]

95. My Point Is... That Those Of Us Who Supported JFK, RFK, MLK, McGovern...

Who admired the hell out of FDR and many others throughout history...

USED to be the base of this party.

Unions, public servants, minorities, women... to name a few.

And now it seems, we are antiquated, far left fringists from a bygone era.

[Enthusiast]

96. I'm with you, WillyT!