Christopher Lane killing

[YarnAddict]

Three young men, two black and one white, shot and killed a student athlete because they were bored.

I have been struck by the difference in the way the young men have been treated by the justice system.

The white suspect was the oldest, therefore could be considered to be the most culpable. He is also the one who spoke up in court and announced that he had pulled the trigger. The judge told him to shut up, and set his bond at $1,000,000.

One of the African Americans appears to have an alibi--his mother says he was at home at the time of the crime. The other denies involvement. And yet they were denied bond.

Please tell me: is there any reason, other than race, for the difference in the way these young men have been treated?

[cali]

1. looks to be race based. Could you post a link to those facts?

[YarnAddict]

3. Link

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57599434-504083/christopher-lane-update-teens-charged-with-murder-after-police-say-they-killed-australian-baseball-player-for-fun/

Tuesday, the boy said in open court "I pulled the trigger," but the judge directed him to remain quiet and said was not the day to discuss the facts of the case.

The boy cried. His bond was set at $1 million.

[LisaL]

25. I believe it's a case of bad reporting.

And that he actually said that he didn't pull the trigger.

[YarnAddict]

27. Could be.

That actually makes more sense.

[Travis_0004]

76. Why not just charge all of them with murder

It can be done under the felony murder rule. I would have no problem with that, provided they can prove the story that they went out to murder somebody because they were bored.

[LisaL]

82. Because they need someone to talk, and the person who talks gets a deal.

[YarnAddict]

4. Link

FTA: Tuesday, the boy said in open court "I pulled the trigger," but the judge directed him to remain quiet and said was not the day to discuss the facts of the case.

The boy cried. His bond was set at $1 million.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57599434-504083/christopher-lane-update-teens-charged-with-murder-after-police-say-they-killed-australian-baseball-player-for-fun/

[morningfog]

2. I haven't followed it closely, and don't know the facts. But,there could be many reasons.

Bail is considered to prevent flight. The others could have a history in the juvenile system of default or not showing for court appearances.

There are several factors that are considered. Without knowing more and without the details of the bail hearings, it is hard to say. Having said that, your suggestion is certainly possible.

[YarnAddict]

5. More details will be forthcoming,

I'm sure, but in the meantime, I just hope I'm not jumping to conclusions. I really thought the judicial system was supposed to be colorblind.

[JustAnotherGen]

6. I've read a few different articles on this

Who did what? Was Jones the shooter or the driver or both? And are we positive he is Caucasian? Looking at his picture - he has my paternal grandmother's coloring - but she was black.

[YarnAddict]

7. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions

regarding Jones' race, but the pics I've seen make him seem like a blue-eyed white teenager. Hard to say.

I noticed something else about him: he seems to have an unusual welt on his forehead, and I'm wondering if he could have had a head injury that would predispose him to violence. (Or, maybe he was just wrinkling his forehead in a weird way.)

[JustAnotherGen]

11. He could be

My husband's and my child. . Going off my gut in a very "swirled" family - I believe he is black. And to the best of my knowledge if they were trying to be Crips - I don't think that is a diverse criminal organization. . Could be these days - but it wasn't in the 1980's.

[YarnAddict]

9. He was charged with being the driver

and he is apparently the one who pointed the finger at Luna as being the shooter, although he later claimed he did it. Lots of questions in this case, and just one indisputable fact: A promising young life was cut way too short. Very, very sad.

[LisaL]

26. He doesn't look Caucasian to me either.

I believe he is bi-racial. One of the other suspects is also bi-racial.

[JustAnotherGen]

36. I agree

I only say black though because I am bi-racial - but identify as black.

[kelliekat44]

65. Well his mother is certainly white as shown in the several photos of her outside of court. nt

[LisaL]

70. That's the mother of 16 year old. Not Jones's.

If you have any links to the 17 year old mother, do post them.

[JustAnotherGen]

8. I had to go to an Austraian news source

To get anything of substance:

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/victoria/man-who-dobbed-in-suspects-accused-of-murdering-melbourne-baseball-player-chris-lane-says-his-son-was-next/story-fnii5sms-1226700172461

Lane's accused killers refused bailTwo boys who allegedly shot dead an Australian baseballer have been charged with first degree murder.(0:39 / 3.6MB)


Mr Johnson claimed that Edwards Jr had threatened the life of his own 17-year-old son Christopher on Facebook. His son was at home with his mother and sisters near the church when he received the death threat.

"They threatened to kill my son because they are in a gang, the Crips, and were trying to get my son in it and I wouldn't let him do it.

"I told him he couldn't run with those boys. He's a little terrified."

Mr Johnson said the Crips, a predominantly African American street gang that began in Los Angeles in 1969 and had been in Duncan for the past few years.

Read more: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/national-news/victoria/man-who-dobbed-in-suspects-accused-of-murdering-melbourne-baseball-player-chris-lane-says-his-son-was-next/story-fnii5sms-1226700172461#ixzz2cbFAbTnT

[joshcryer]

10. I was just reading that first link. Somewhat biased.

Quoting Piers Morgan and Donald Trump...

[JustAnotherGen]

13. It was Better

Than the Fox News articles I found. They seem to be the ones running with it. Couldn't find anything on the white gun man that opened fire at a school serving 5 to 11 year olds in a black neighborhood of Decatur, GA yesterday at Fox though . . .

[joshcryer]

14. No worries, I am sure Aussies are upset about this.

Since they're calling for a boycott of the US and all.

[JustAnotherGen]

18. They sure are - with good reason?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/21/justice/australia-student-killed-oklahoma/

The indiscriminate shooting of Christopher Lane, a 23-year-old Australian who was living his dream of studying in the U.S. on a baseball scholarship, has repulsed many in his home country and led to calls for Australian tourists to boycott the United States.

"It is another example of murder mayhem on Main Street," former Australian deputy Prime Minister Tim Fischer told CNN's Piers Morgan.

"People thinking of going to the USA for business or tourists trips should think carefully about it given the statistical fact you are 15 times more likely to be shot dead in the USA than in Australia per capita per million people."

Police say Lane was on one of his regular runs through what's been described as the affluent town of Duncan on Friday at about 3 p.m. local time when a car carrying three teenagers drove up behind him.

[pschoeb]

32. Duncan isn't affluent, cnn is idiotic

The median income is 30,000 and the town has 30% percent of it's population below poverty. That is a fairly high poverty level, I can't see how anyone could call this town affluent.

[JustAnotherGen]

35. So if it's a poor neighborhood/community

With a high level of violence - is that 15 times more likely statistic even higher?

[pschoeb]

41. That statistc is a propaganda statistic

Notice he say "shot dead", gun deaths are very high in the US compared with Australia, but the murder rates aren't as dramatically different, Australia is 1 for every 100,000 people and US is 4.8 for every 100,000 people. I would describe the town as grindingly poor, Detroit for example has a median income of 27,000 and population below poverty of 32% and pretty much everyone would describe it as grindingly poor.

[JustAnotherGen]

42. Well

We have propaganda too . . . example - the 20 year old white gun man that opened fire in Decatur Georgia yesterday outside of an elementary school in Decatur Georgia. But the pro-gun propaganda folks want that one to sink to the bottom.

What I want research on . . . when did a bunch of little kids get shot in Australia - just for going to school one morning.

[JustAnotherGen]

43. This is an interesting

Page - gives crime stats/comparisons between US and Australia:

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime


Diving down into it -

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_com_by_you-crime-murders-committed-by-youths

Murders by youth - we are Number 3 . . . Only Brazil and Columbia surpass us? Is this true? Then Russia then Mexico.
Australia is 37?

Wow. Just wow. So we are in the Developing World's bucket as opposed to the 1st world. I blame the Republicans. This is precisely what they wanted and have worked towards for 40 years.

[Bunnahabhain]

46. So a 480% increase

is not "dramatically different?" I hope you're not a financial planner.

[joshcryer]

12. Sounds like Jones talked first.

Sounds like Edwards was being dismissive of the severity of the crime, joking about it, etc.

Sounds like Luna is getting pinned with it if Jones' court room confession is to be believed. Whether he confessed to shooting out of guilt or out of sincerity we'll see. He doesn't have to testify against the other two if that's the case. I'm sure his lawyer will tell him real quick to cooperate.

[YarnAddict]

15. I could see why Jones would say Luna did it

in order to cut a deal. If Luna didn't do it, I sure hope he gets a good lawyer.

[joshcryer]

16. Agreed.

Jones sounds like he cooperated fully though with the questioning and accused Luna once the questions got really serious. Basically he told them the truth that they were out looking for someone to kill but then they asked who shot and then he covered his butt. Then in court he admits his guilt after it weighed on him (not sure if the others were in the same court room at the same time and if their adult charges were known to Jones).

[LisaL]

28. He didn't admit his guilt in court.

This sounds like a case of bad reporting. Others reporting he said that he didn't pull the trigger.

[joshcryer]

30. Do you have a link?

In any event he did sound like he was cooperating which is why he would get a lesser charge than Edwards who was reported to be completely uncaring about it.

[LisaL]

69. There are many links. Here is one.

""I didn't pull the trigger, but ... " Jones began before being interrupted by Judge Herberger, who warned him not to discuss details of the case."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/shooting-8216not-supposed-to-happen8217-in-duncan/story-fni0fiyv-1226701606098

[joshcryer]

71. Thanks. My speculation is invalidated then.

Except the part where Jones seemed to be the most cooperative.

[CBGLuthier]

17. The simple truth is no one knows near enough to do all this speculating.

They probably have not even flown the body home yet. At least that is my SPECULATION about it.

There could be lots of reasons for differing treatments including prior history. Making it about race is a little bit stupid.

[YarnAddict]

21. You're right.

We are going to find out MUCH about all three of them in the months to come. This was just what struck me this morning. (And--the purpose of a discussion board is to "discuss.&quot

[Enrique]

19. i read he said "i didn't pull the trigger"

perfect demonstration in why it's way too early to get hung up on any detail we hear reported.

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/victoria/man-who-dobbed-in-suspects-accused-of-murdering-melbourne-baseball-player-chris-lane-says-his-son-was-next/story-fnii5sms-1226700172461

[YarnAddict]

20. The CBS article I linked

quoted him as saying "I pulled the trigger."

[LisaL]

54. They must be quoting him wrong.

He was crying and claiming he didn't pull the trigger. I fail to see why he would confess in open court.

[Lee-Lee]

22. A few things- but I thought all 3 were black?

Did the media jump on the bandwagon eager to portray them all as violent blacks when one was white?

Bail is often based both on the crime and past record- if the others had worse past criminal records, that would explain some difference.

Could also be the prosecutors asked for that based on cooperation.

Regardless, I doubt that the parents will come up with $100,000 to post that bond.

[W_HAMILTON]

33. Yes, someone in the media originally screwed up.

Here are the original photos that were circulated around:

[img][/img]

And here are the current photos:

[img][/img]

Some have said that the original photos included two photos of James Edwards: one as himself and then one in a bandana that they originally claimed was Michael Jones.

[MelungeonWoman]

74. It looks like the same three suspects to me.

They're just in a different order. The person identified as Edwards in the top row is suspect #2 in the bottom row, "Luna" would be suspect #3 and "Jones" would be suspect #1. Whether or not the names are correct I have no idea. But it's pretty obvious those are the same three persons.

[W_HAMILTON]

84. lol, are you being serious?

Yes, the order is different, but it is quite obvious they are different people.

In the top row of the pictures originally released, there are two pictures of James Edwards: one labeled James Edwards and one labeled Michael Jones.

In the bottom row of the pictures later released, it includes the actual three suspects, in the following order: Chancey Luna, James Edwards, and (the real) Michael Jones.

The pictures originally released excluded the real Michael Jones (the white suspect) and instead replaced him with a second photo of James Edwards (the black suspect) in a bandana.

You think it's "pretty obvious" that Chancey Luna from the top row is the same person as #3 in the bottom row? Look a little harder......

[uponit7771]

88. Really?! pic at top had 2 dark skinned blacks 2 at bottom dont

[MelungeonWoman]

89. Yes, really.

Are these pictures of the same women?

[uponit7771]

91. Yes, I can tell by the hair...

[CBGLuthier]

23. Just read an article. The driver is not being charged with murder

Thus his offense is bailable.

He is being charged with being an accessory after the fact and operating a vehicle that a weapon was discharged from.

[Lee-Lee]

24. Ahh

Makes sense

[ejpoeta]

29. what kind of a lawyer do each have? that might have something to do with it.

though it does seem strange that one would get bond and the others get remanded.

[GreenStormCloud]

31. Since when do the Crips admit Whites?

You may wish to back off on your knee-jerk charge of racism.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/man-who-dobbed-in-suspects-accused-of-murdering-melbourne-baseball-player-chris-lane-says-his-son-was-next/story-fni0fiyv-1226700172461

James Johnson, 52, called the police to tell them that the accused killers were hiding in the car park of the Immauel Baptist Church car park at about 5pm, two hours after they allegedly shot Lane.

"My son called me and said, "They're saying they're coming to kill me," so I called the police and they got here within about three minutes," Johnson told the Herald Sun.

Mr Johnson claimed that Edwards Jr had threatened the life of his own 17-year-old son Christopher on Facebook. His son was at home with his mother and sisters near the church when he received the death threat.

"They threatened to kill my son because they are in a gang, the Crips, and were trying to get my son in it and I wouldn't let him do it.

[hack89]

34. Apparently it is not uncommon

when I Googled "crips white members" I got a bunch of links that talk about white crip members

[JustAnotherGen]

37. +1

Saw the same thing . . .

[Paladin]

40. Well, GreenStormCloud's day is shot to hell.....

[oberliner]

38. Your information is inaccurate

The white suspect specifically said that he did not pull the trigger and is only being charged as being an accessory after the fact.

One of the two black suspects said that he killed Lane.

[JustAnotherGen]

39. I want to wait on that

I want to see the 'white suspects' parents. I don't believe he's white at all . . .

Any other bi-racial/black Americans here that can weigh in? I think he's one of us. We don't all look like Halle and Obama.

[Sissyk]

44. lol!

I'm sorry, JAG, but I had to laugh and your last sentence!

[JustAnotherGen]

45. n/t

No problem. Sometimes you just gotta put stuff out there that you 'understand' in your 'own skin' and life experience. I hope the poster I responded to doesn't feel like I was having a funny at their expense. It's just -

I'm a be me!

[Sissyk]

47. Oh, no.

I doubt the poster feels that way. I had a chuckle because I felt you were pointing the finger inward a bit, if that makes sense. We should all do that more often.

However, I wish I did look like Halle!! lol!

[JustAnotherGen]

48. Yeppers!

But the woman I really resent? Thandie Newton. For some reason my husband is fixated on her!

Bella donna! Oh - buuuueeeatifull-a!

Doggone him all.

[Sissyk]

50. lol!!

Heavens! She is gorgeous. I'd almost be willing to give a pinky finger for her complexion. She glows!

Hubby's two are Jennifer Anniston and Sonny.......oh fiddle! Can't think of her last name, but she is a legal correspondent for HLN and CNN. He thinks Jenn is "the girl next door" and Sonny is "lawyer lovely"! haha!

Must go to meeting now. Good talking to you, JustAnotherGen!!

[oberliner]

49. I'm talking about the information regarding Michael Jones

Isn't that who you were talking about?

I think the information about him saying he pulled the trigger is inaccurate. I think he said he did not pull the trigger.

Chauncey Luna is the one who, I believe, confessed to pulling the trigger.

He does appear to have a white mother and a black father.

[JustAnotherGen]

53. Nah

We have a whole subset thread here about race. I think my point is - Let's not rush to judgment on disparities that probably do NOT exist in terms of how each of the defendants are treated.


We (black Americans) have more than enough REAL issues with disparity in treatment in the Criminal Justice system - we are not served or helped by a 'guessed' or 'made up' one.

[Gormy Cuss]

51. Ooof!

You just hit one out of the park.

[Number23]

63. He looks white to me!

And sources have confirmed it http://www.mediaite.com/online/fox-and-friends-daily-caller-falsely-report-3-black-teens-arrested-in-chris-lane-murder/

[JustAnotherGen]

75. Ahhhhh

Thanks!

[RandiFan1290]

79. The Zimmerfans need them all to be black.

It is the only scenario that fits their racist outrage over this story.

[JustAnotherGen]

83. +1

And the rest of DU is learning a lesson about one drop laws - and that black Americans - we come in all shades and colors. And maybe - to not jump to conclusions - because a few people might test - er - well - test their 'perception' for the fun of it. L

[Number23]

86. Not only that but they will apparently hop right over the newspapers that note that the white

suspect admitted to pulling the trigger in order to focus on the ones that say he denies pulling the trigger. Why do I have a feeling that all of the ones where he denies it are right wing publications??

[treestar]

52. Probably

Any encounter with the justice system is much more technical for African Americans. Much more in the spirit of the laws for white people.

The African American person needs all Is dotted and all Ts crossed to get bail. The white person will be considered generally if they are a flight risk or not. this happens even in blue states. Imagine a red one.

[magical thyme]

55. trying not to jump to conclusions, but I wondered, too, why the younger 2

were charged with 1st degree murder, whereas the 3rd was charged with illegal discharging of a firearm and accessory after the fact.

He either fired the shot that killed -- in which case he should be charged with 1st degree murder -- or he did not.

There must be a lot we don't know and, as others wrote, something the reporters got wrong.

[LisaL]

56. He wasn't charged with discharging a firearm.

He was charged with an use of vehicle in the discharge of weapon-he is accused of being the driver while weapon was being discharged.
Not by him personally.

[magical thyme]

60. you're probably right...I read it at work, so either misread or, more likely,

it was badly written. Because first I'd read he was charged with use of the vehicle, but in a later article I read he was charged with illegal discharge of a firearm. I did a double take and re-read that, so I'm guessing the later article suffered from some bad editing.

Use of the vehicle in discharge of a weapon makes more sense.

[magical thyme]

61. NBC news has repeatedly written he's charged with firing a weapon

that's where I saw it. This is the 3rd article that says the same thing.

"Michael Dewayne Jones, 17, was charged with being an accessory to murder after the fact and with firing a weapon."

http://dailynightly.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/21/20123084-my-heart-just-broke-right-there-girlfriend-remembers-okla-ballplayer-killed-in-random-shooting?lite

[LisaL]

68. He isn't charged with firing a weapon. Because it's not alleged her fired a weapon.

I don't care what nbc news is reporting.

"A third teen, 17-year-old Michael Jones, is being charged with use of a vehicle while a weapon was being discharged and accessory after the fact to first degree murder. Jones is being treated as an adult, but could be considered a youthful offender or juvenile per his conviction. His preliminary hearing is set for October 2."

http://www.okcfox.com/story/23198862/duncan-teens-charged-with-murder-in-death-of-thrill-kill

[magical thyme]

78. I realize that. sorry you don't care the NBC news is the media reporting it wrong.

excuse me for responding. Won't bother to again.

[Quantess]

57. One of the 3 suspects was white?

Could have fooled me.

[LordGlenconner]

58. If the victim was black it would not be a national story

In fact, in most big cities, black on black crime doesn't warrant much more than a few paragraphs in a newspaper or a few seconds in a TV broadcast, if at all.

It's my understanding the paper in Oklahoma City's front page this morning looks like a poster for a lynch mob.

[LisaL]

59. If victim wasn't from Australia, it might have not been a national story.

Victim being Australian makes it international news.

[Number23]

62. Oh my God...

the boy said in open court "I pulled the trigger,"

But yet HE'S the one who's NOT charged with murder??! WHAT IN THE HELL?

[LisaL]

66. No, he said he didn't pull the trigger.

[Number23]

73. I'm gonna go with the two newspaper articles that say the opposite, thanks.

Edit: Sorry, make that THREE articles that say the opposite http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/oklahoma-police-say-australian-baseball-player-killed-on-street-because-teenagers-were-bored/2013/08/19/cc4f5dd4-092d-11e3-89fe-abb4a5067014_story.html

a 17-year-old blurted out, “I pulled the trigger,” then wept after a judge told him that Tuesday’s hearing wasn’t the time or place to sort out the facts of the case.

[YarnAddict]

77. Are there official court transcripts

that would confirm that? Or, is spontaneous stuff like that not recorded. I don't know, but it would be interesting to find out what was actually said, because the two statements are polar opposites.

[LisaL]

80. You can go with whatever you want.

I am going with newspaper articles that say otherwise. He was remorseful, crying and saying that he didn't pull the trigger. It makes no sense for him to claim that he pulled the trigger, since he is the one talking to the prosecution and being charged as an accessory instead of first degree murder.

[Number23]

85. "I am going with newspaper articles that say otherwise." I'm shocked.

What makes no sense is for anyone to try to pretend that he didn't say that he pulled the trigger when a half dozen newspapers are saying that he did. And it's even more interesting that of the three, he is the only one that the prosecution is talking to. How very interesting indeed.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

95. That's now been refuted by the DA.

Yes, it's been widely reported, but a) it seems the reporters were probably using a single source, and b) that single source was probably wrong.

See, for example, http://www.mediaite.com/online/exclusive-district-attorney-confirms-chris-lane-suspect-did-not-say-i-pulled-the-trigger-in-bail-hearing/

[Number23]

64. Sources confirm exactly what you and I read in the article you linked to

http://www.mediaite.com/online/fox-and-friends-daily-caller-falsely-report-3-black-teens-arrested-in-chris-lane-murder/

It is true that 15 year-old James Edwards and 16 year-old Chancey Luna have been charged, as adults, with first-degree murder, while Jones is charged as an accessory after the fact, but Jones is also reported to have said “I pulled the trigger” in court Tuesday:

As the boys appeared in an Oklahoma courtroom, a 17-year-old blurted out, “I pulled the trigger,” then wept after a judge told him that Tuesday’s hearing wasn’t the time or place to sort out the facts of the case.

Glad that you are asking the questions you're asking. Sorry that there are a few trying to give you a hard time about it. Racism is a topic that few here want to discuss openly and/or honestly.

[LisaL]

67. What sources?

[Number23]

72. Is the link and text box in my post invisible?

[LisaL]

81. I don't see any names in your "text box."

[Number23]

87. Wow.

[Dr. Strange]

90. Updates

Update: While several outlets have quoted Jones as saying “I pulled the trigger” in court, The Duncan Banner gives this more logical account of the proceeding:

Jones was brought in last and told Herberger, “I didn’t pull the trigger.” The judge immediately cut him off, saying it was not the time to make such statements because the hearing was only to determine bond.

I’ve contacted several sources to confirm the quote, but haven’t received a response as yet.

Update: Thursday morning, District Attorney Jason Hicks confirmed to Mediaite that Jones said “I didn’t pull the trigger.”

[Donald Ian Rankin]

92. Update: the claim in the OP that the white suspect admitted to pulling the trigger is an error.

The DA has confirmed that, while a number of news outlets reported Jones as saying "I pulled the trigger", they were wrong, and what he actually said was "I did not pull the trigger".

http://www.mediaite.com/online/exclusive-district-attorney-confirms-chris-lane-suspect-did-not-say-i-pulled-the-trigger-in-bail-hearing/

[YarnAddict]

93. Thanks for the update! n/t

[kentuck]

94. The one that wants to be in the gang has to do the killing...

to prove himself worthy of being a member of the gang. It was reported earlier today that it was some type of "initiation" killing for a gang.

One has to wonder about all the other gang members? Who did they kill?