In Her Request For A Pardon, Manning Said:

[WillyT]

In her request for a pardon, Manning said: "Whenever we killed innocent civilians, instead of accepting responsibility for our conduct, we elected to hide behind the veil of national security and classified information in order to avoid any public accountability. In our zeal to kill the enemy, we internally debated the definition of torture," she continued. "We held individuals at Guantanamo for years without due process. We inexplicably turned a blind eye to torture and executions by the Iraqi government. And we stomached countless other acts in the name of our war on terror."

From: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023516974

[hlthe2b]

1. If only her message would not be diminished by those who would use her gender identity issue

as the ultimate distraction-- just as many are using their personal "issues" with Greenwald and Snowden as the excuse to ignore the true issues revolving around national security surveillance excesses.

It is reminiscent of how "we" reacted to "end of life" issues and rights of the individual to chose a more merciful end to terminal suffering. So many used their issues with Jack Kevorkian (the defacto "symbol" for that debate) to deflect all discussion from the very important issue, that ultimately never received the national discussion it deserved.

We are a very superficial people in many respects... sigh..

[Newest Reality]

7. I agree about the gender issues.

I wonder how many people consider the reflection of our maturity, (in the gaining wisdom sense) about gender issues in general.

Gender has been utilized for so long as a means to give credence to dogmatic and secular judgement on others as if it is the basis for "morality" itself. This is not only immature and an indication of a lack of reflection on the bias and manipulation involved, it has no other basis than beliefs and prejudice itself.

When we "grow up" (maybe that's if?) perhaps this all will be seen in the context of foolish behavior mixed with naivete and willful ignorance concerning our drives, hormones and expressions of gender itself.

[antiquie]

14. I was hoping this would be the thread that would rise above it. (nt)

[whopis01]

16. I agree completely. But once again the gender issue was brought up right away

Before there was even a single response to this post.

Perhaps if people paid more attention to what she had to say instead of having to turn every Chelsea Manning post into a reaction about transgenderism or a criticism to people's reaction to transgenderism.

It is amazing how you can respond to a post that had nothing to do with her gender, turn it into a discussion about how that is the "ultimate distraction", and then lament how other issues didn't get the attention they deserve. All the while never mentioning anything relative to the OP.

[hlthe2b]

18. What a very ugly and undeserved reply to me. I won't bother, given you clearly only want a fight.

[whopis01]

20. Not looking for a fight at all

Just trying to point out that the best way of making sure her message gets out there is to talk about her message and not get sidetracked from it.

None of the other replies to the OP felt the need to turn it into a discussion of gender issues and people's reaction to them.

[hlthe2b]

21. You must have been absent from DU or any other forum since her announcement then...

and, i repeat.. your comment to me was ugly, undeserved and flamebait and you are fully deserving of my derision for this very inappropriate attack.

I thought at first you were a newcomer and as such, perhaps believe such incivility is appropriate here as in many other online forums. While you are not, IT is not and I hope you rethink your behavior.

[whopis01]

22. What would make you think that?

I don't feel my comments towards you were undeserved, nor do I find your reaction to them unexpected.

I have not been absent. I have been there all along. The issues surrounding Chelsea Manning's gender identity are incredibley important to me. More important to me than you could know.

As such I am happy to admit that I am sensitive to the discussion. In particular the continued attempt to make everything about her be solely about her gender (or what random people may insist her gender be) drives me crazy.

When I read this OP and saw that the first post here was yet another one that was unresponsive to the post, turned it into the gender issue, and lamented about distractions from the message it struck a nerve with me.

As I said, the issues of gender identity and transgenderism are deeply personal ones to me. If that makes me overly sensitive to certain comments - fine - I will own up to that. But I am also going to stand by what I said.

[dorkulon]

23. Bullshit.

^ THAT's flamebait. All I saw was earnest criticism. If you can't handle that; if any argumentation against your point of view is "ugly" or "flamebait," you maybe should come back when you're ready to accept that this is a forum for debate.

[hlthe2b]

25. Welcome to ignore.. I have no need for such nastiness as I've seen repeatedy from you.

Your name is quite apropos.

[dorkulon]

26. Buh-bye.

[progressoid]

2. That's not the way to ask for a pardon.

She should have said, "I was wrong, you were right. God bless Murica."

[rhett o rick]

5. Not so sure. Georgie Bush says he was right and we are wrong. God bless Murica. And I bet he

gets a pardon.

[Cleita]

10. He hasn't been brought to justice and neither has Dick Cheney

revealing Valerie Plame's cover.

[rhett o rick]

11. The Powers To Be dont want them prosecuted. Most likely will be pardoned. nm

[Cleita]

3. She's a brave, brave person.

I hope our CIC realizes the errors of govt. security policies and makes the changes he has so often promised but fallen short of and yes he needs to pardon Manning.

[rhett o rick]

6. She can not be pardoned. The Authoritarian State has to show the masses where they stand.

We are not free.

[Cleita]

8. You probably are right. In an interview with her lawyer, he indicated

that he believed the purpose of the treatment and sentence Chelsea received was not to serve justice but to warn any other whistle blowers what our government will do to them if they do the same.

[rhett o rick]

12. Yes and IMO that meets the definition of terrorism. nm

[Solly Mack]

4. K&R

[GeorgeGist]

9. Hope and Change:

Is it too much to ask for?

[Bully Taw]

13. we didn't ask for it...

we were promised it. it just didn't ever get delivered.

[Autumn]

15. She amazes me, and so often brings tears to my eyes.

Recommended for her words of wisdom.

[treestar]

17. If only she did not consider herself the one to judge

When our classified info should be released, and if only she had wanted to use the avenues that were provided first. Using those avenues would have given her cover.

She dislikes our country. Too bad she chose to serve in its military.

She thinks of herself as the one who gets to judge.

[Bluenorthwest]

19. As if you had not long ago cast aside any credibility on any GLBT issue

Feel free to post your gossip but the context is on record for all to see. The linked post and thread are good examples.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2952192

[sabrina 1]

24. If only every soldier and elected official would take their Oath of Office as seriously as she has.

Too bad our military is sent to murder and torture innocent people in other countries who have never done a single thing to us.

Too bad our Government thinks so little of our troops that they send them to die based on egregious lies.

Too bad so many of our troops, believing they were fighting for their country, realized when they witnessed the horrors of these wars, that they were just being used as fodder, as Pat Tillman and Bendersen and so many others did. And too bad that that realization has caused far too many of them to take their own lives.

And most of all too bad that many, many more of them did not do what Manning did and report the abuse and the torture and the war crimes.

And too bad our government has not done a single thing to deal with the deadly lies and the law breaking of those repsonsible.

Brava Chelsea Manning, I hope many more soldiers and elected officials will be inspired by your courage to do what is right.

[jmowreader]

27. And that's why you decided 750,000 files you never read should "be free"...

[WillyT]

28. Kick !!!

[struggle4progress]

29. The credibility of the sentiments ought to be judged in context. Manning

joined the military by choice, although it does not seem finally to have been a happy match. In chats with Lamo, Manning indicated that a separation from the military for gender dysphoria was pending and spoke of being shocked by some material encountered

However, although the Army from time to time, has soldiers who discover themselves to be conscientious objectors to war, in Manning's case there is apparently no history of such a claim -- which seems somewhat odd, if overwhelming disgust and horror at the inhumanity of combat, and the behavior of some soldiers in combat, were a major motive

There is also the peculiarity of the release: the diplomatic cables, for example, do not have any immediately obvious bearing on the Iraq war, or any other issues Manning raised in the recent pardon-request statement, since some date from as early as 1966. Since Manning could not possibly have read most of the material released, the motive must have been something different than exposing particular issues, and one natural guess is that the soldier simply downloaded whatever was easy to grab. Given Manning's personal isolation in Iraq and continuing desire for close friendship with some Boston-area hackers, a second natural guess is that the soldier had hoped the Wikileaks dump would impress hacker friends. And given Manning's history of psychological difficulties, the pardon statement might also be read in the same light, namely, as an attempt to impress people. It is tragic the military did not provide the needed help, which we can only hope becomes available during Manning's further imprisonment