Obama Was Wrong: NSA Employees Have Deliberately "Abused" Their Power - Slate

[WillyT]

Obama Was Wrong: NSA Employees Have Deliberately "Abused" Their Power
By Ryan Gallagher | Slate
Posted Friday, Aug. 23, 2013, at 5:29 PM

<snip>

In recent weeks, government officials have insisted that Americans need not worry about NSA surveillance because there are no cases of the system being wilfully abused. But new details have emerged showing these assurances to be blatantly false—in yet another twist that is sure to undermine trust in the NSA oversight regime.

On Friday, Bloomberg reported that NSA analysts have “deliberately ignored restrictions on their authority to spy on Americans multiple times in the past decade.” According to Bloomberg, an average of one case of intentional abuse per year has been documented in internal reports. Given that the NSA intercepts billions of communications weekly, the number of reported deliberate abuses is small. However, that there are any documented cases at all is highly significant because of how this contradicts statements made by both current and former senior officials in the aftermath of a series of stories about vast NSA spy programs based on leaked secret documents.

NSA chief Gen. Keith Alexander claimed at a New York cybersecurity conference earlier this month that “no one has wilfully or knowingly disobeyed the law or tried to invade your civil liberties or privacy.” A similar statement was made by the head of the Senate intelligence committee tasked with conducting oversight of the NSA. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said on Aug. 16 that the committee had “never identified an instance in which the NSA has intentionally abused its authority to conduct surveillance for inappropriate purposes.”

In an Aug. 9 news conference, President Obama stated, too, that abuse had not been occurring. “All the stories that have been written, what you're not reading about is the government actually abusing these programs and listening in on people's phone calls or inappropriately reading people's emails,” Obama said. Two days later, this statement was enthusiastically reiterated by former NSA chief Gen. Michael Hayden, who appeared on Face of the Nation. “There have been no abuses under him <President Obama> or under his predecessor <President Bush>,” Hayden insisted.

According to the Bloomberg report...

<snip>

More: http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/08/23/bloomberg_report_nsa_employees_have_deliberately_abused_their_power.html

[Pterodactyl]

1. Obama is wrong? But Obama is the change we've been waiting for. Does-not-compute. Does-not-compute.

[MotherPetrie]

2. Snort!

[kelliekat44]

11. He made a mistake. Surely by now you must know that Obama is only human. Many inside of gov.

and outside government commit illegal acts without even their immediate supervisors knowing what is going on.

[HooptieWagon]

16. Its his job to know.

And if an agency under his authority isn't following the law, or carrying out his wishes, then he is empowered to replace people in that agency. That Obama hasn't fired Clapper, et al, indicates they are doing exactly what Obama wants them to do.

[Th1onein]

30. He made a mistake that he's CONTINUING to repeat.

I understand if he didn't know what was going on, initially. But NOW he does, and he continues along the same dark road.

[Pterodactyl]

40. If only Obama knew!

[MotherPetrie]

3. K&R

[forestpath]

4. Defense of abusers is a regular feature of the Obama administration.

[bvar22]

5. The Government does not spy on Americans

Destined to join the list of the most laughable of American lies.

I am not a crook.

I did not have sex with that woman.

Free Trade will be GOOD for America's Working Class.

The Oil will pay for the WAR.

Wall Street IS Main Street.

Corporations are people too.

The check is in the mail.

It was ALL Joe Lieberman's fault.

[LearningCurve]

17. My personal favorite

I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.

[bvar22]

24. I know that one is a favorite of Republicans, Libertarians, & Conservative "Reagan Democrats",

but the problem with THAT one is that it is not a "LIE".

The others are CLEARLY lies,
but The Big Bad Government DOES come & help us in countless ways every single day of our lives,
from the Meat Inspector who makes sure that the Big Meat packers don't sell us poison,
to the guy who makes sure that the Gas Stations sell us a measured gallon of gas,
to the guys who watch for Hurricanes,
to the guys who make sure that our Levees and waterways are safe,
to the guys who make sure there are no rat turds in our soup at the Cafe,
...ALL people from The Government "here to help us".


While Republicans, Libertarians, and "Reagan Democrats" LOVE to go around spewing THAT Big Reagan Lie, witness what happens when there is a disaster in their state, or the BIG Corporate Farm Subsidies come up for a vote.
The ones who love to mouth that LIE
are the first ones in line with their hand out.

I'm 63 years old, and chose early Social Security last year,
but I can't count how many times over MY life that our Government was "there to help me."
Of course, most of those times were back when we had a Democratic Party that actually gave a damn about Americans who Work for a Living.

Government "Of the People, by the People, & FOR The People" when it is working FOR the benefit of the MAJORITY of Americans....is a GOOD thing.
When it is run by Republicans, Libertarians, or "New Democrat" 3rd Way DINOs.... not so much.





You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]

[LearningCurve]

28. Reagan gets credit for the line, which is why Republicans like it so much

I heard it as a child long before Reagan was president in a different context. Living on a reservation, it was a parody of someone from the Bureau of Indian Affairs introducing himself. This introduction was also used as a punchline to various jokes involving the BIA.

In case you aren't aware of that particular agency, let's just say American Indians don't have a particularly high level of trust. Neither did any non Indians. While the line is not a direct quote from any one specific individual, it is sort of a catch-all for any number of lies from almost every treaty signed by the US government with the Indians. To this day, I think of that line in that context, regardless of whether or not Republicans have improperly attributed it to Reagan as an original statement.

[Th1onein]

31. Learning Curve, this is a liberal forum and that's a Ronald Raygun quote.

Just sayin'.

[LearningCurve]

41. See my post right above yours

[railsback]

6. We need to kill off the police forces, then

They abuse their powers every day.

[cali]

7. no, we need to reign them in- a lot. just like the NSA. cut the fuck out of their funding.

[railsback]

10. Interesting

Police force, just about every day. NSA, once, twice a year. Cut THEIR funding.

LoL.

[quakerboy]

12. NSA...

Once or twice a year, as per self reporting...

Police force... Per self reporting... Hmm.

The difference is we get to see the abuses of the police, so we know about it even when they internally exonerate themselves. People with cameras show up. The police try to shut them down, but nearly everyones got a camera on them at all times now.

NSA.. not so much. Could you identify an NSA worker breaking the law if you saw them doing it across the street?

[railsback]

21. Do you really think you know all the police force abuses?

Anywho, so let's say both are committing the same amount of abuses. Where's the talk about defunding the police forces? The NSA may or may not be spying on some, or all, randomly, or 24 hrs.. there's no proof other than assuming they are because they have the capability to do so. The police forces across the country, on a daily basis, falsely arrest, abuse, illegally search, force sodomy, and yes, we hear about a lot of it… and then we change commanders and make more rules.. but it still happens, on a daily basis. I mean, really, which is worse? The police abusing your rights, having the department cover it up, and send well paid lawyers after you and bleed you dry while you try to get justice… or the NSA, possibly spying on your porn activity without you ever knowing anything?

Certainly amusing, to say the least.

[quakerboy]

23. Who cares about the porn?

I find it interesting this assumption that there is a separation. NSA and LE are tied together. That's been made apparent of late, with the whole Parallel Construction deal. If nothing is done about the spying, I would guess the amount of time between now and when your average unscrupulous policeman can access all your information is limited. They aren't going to let a tool like that pass them by, and more than the corporate world will. Legality be damned, if its there, they will find a way to use it.

So then you end up in an even uglier situation. The police abuse your rights. You call in to let your wife know you are headed to the lawyer to try and get a hint of justice. But they know they did wrong, and are listening to your calls. Because they can, and they dont want to get a demerit, even if the lawyers can get them out of any serious trouble. They stop you a few blocks from your house and let you know they are able to hear anything you say and they will be listening. Like that time you called your boss a dickhead after work, wonder how he would react to getting a copy of that audio. Plus, here's this handy recording of your son talking on the phone about buying some pot a few months ago. Hey, didn't he just turn 18? Wouldn't it be a shame if that got handed to a prosecutor when he was just about to head to college...

I'm with you, part way. Defund police. Or maybe, fund them in a different way. End the whole military hardware deal. Get them some training in how to de escalate situations. Get them some regular counseling, whether they "need it or not". Lets change the way we recruit officers, look for intelligent, moral people who want to make a difference. Not just ones who want to Enforce.

But we dont have to gloss over or minimize the NSA spying program to cut Police funding, or to restructure our departments. These things go together. They are not exclusive.

[bvar22]

25. Game, Set, & Match.

Well Done.
Kudos for keeping it civil despite the provocations.

[Logical]

42. So true!! n-t

[pnwmom]

8. An average of one case out of billions a year? Isn't that to be expected? No system functions

flawlessly 100% of the time.

[Ocelot]

13. And all it takes is one guy like Snowden to put them in a tailspin

That's why their system is 100% FUCKED. Get it?

[HooptieWagon]

18. Billions of cases per year?

And how many terrorists have been caught due this? Thats right, none.
Looks like it might be the most ineffective program, ever, if the intent is to catch terrorists. OTOH, it seems to be pretty good at "accidently" spying on Americans, which is apparently the intent.

[Th1onein]

32. So, you're admitting that they are spying on billions?

Lol. I rest my case.

[pnwmom]

33. No. The billions refers to the number of incidents, not the number of targets.

And I was merely referring to numbers given in the OP.

[Th1onein]

34. That's what I'm talking about.

If you're spying on billions, then you're spying on most of the world.

[pnwmom]

36. That isn't what the OP said. It's referring to the number of occurrences,

not the number of people.

[Th1onein]

37. Okay, pay attention now:

They say: "Given that the NSA intercepts billions of communications weekly..."

BILLIONS of communications weekly. That's quite a few communications, wouldn't you say? Are they all Chinese? Irish?

Honey, they're spying on ALL OF US. It's obvious.

[pnwmom]

39. They are collecting metadata on all the calls, so in that sense they're spying on all of us.

But, with few exceptions, they are following the procedures that require warrants for actual spying (as opposed to collecting metadata).

[Th1onein]

43. Sorry, but you are WRONG.

They intercept the calls, and they STORE the calls. And, THEN, they analyze everything in bulk. You can call it what you want, but it's SPYING. And quite frankly? I'm dead ass sick of people like you telling me and others that it's LEGAL. What Hitler did was legal, too, but it was also morally reprehensible. So is what the NSA is doing.

[pnwmom]

44. Then complain to your Congress people for making it legal. n/t

[Th1onein]

45. Oh, I've done that. Also, I DON'T support anyone, in any way, INCLUDING OBAMA,

that supports this program. And it's NOT alright, even if it's legal. You should really stop apologizing for it.

[xchrom]

9. du rec.

[Fire Walk With Me]

14. A friendly message from the US government to its people:

[NealK]

15. K&R

[woo me with science]

19. "Proof," as they construe it, is irrelevant anyway.

It's absurd to insist on "proof" of abuse before denying government access to powers that are clearly ripe for abuse. The spying itself is abuse of power.

The Founders knew this. That's why the Bill of Rights focuses on what the government may NOT do. That's why the spying is wrong and unconstitutional, even if we didn't have a shred of proof of abuse beyond the egregious abuse of spying in the first place. History is clear that offering opportunities for abuse of power inevitably leads to abuses of power.

This situation is not analogous to a human defendant in court who deserves presumption of innocence until proof of guilt is determined and corrective action may be taken. This is about creating governmental structures that wield power over millions of human lives. The bias should always go toward limiting highly "abusable" powers from the start, and maintaining constant vigilance, transparency, and skepticism to ensure that abuses don't begin to grow. That's why we have a Fourth Amendment that prohibits this garbage in the first place.

[LearningCurve]

20. Your link had an update

I started a new thread with the updated link, in some ways it's worse than the original story.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/08/23/nsa-officers-sometimes-spy-on-love-interests/

[WillyT]

22. Thank You For That !!!

[Warren DeMontague]

26. But only to make sure their spouses aren't cheating! Or, to help the DEA arrest pot smokers.

But other than that, not at all.


Much.

[idwiyo]

27. K&R

[gulliver]

29. We just need to halt all human activity.

Everyone freeze. It's the only way to achieve the 100% level of abuse prevention we so desperately need. Someone needs to say it.

[cherokeeprogressive]

46. There. It's been said. Having BEEN said, can we now approach the problem with some semblance

of reality?

Edward Snowden was able to defeat the safeguards put in place that would allow the government to know what people with insanely secret clearances had been doing with insanely sophisticated technology that enables insanely illegal (according to some obscure document called The Constitution of the United States) practices. He was able to do what he did without THE LOGS knowing he'd been there. He found backdoors to things AROUND THE LOGS. He got into places that would allow him to know IN REAL TIME the day-to-day communications of American Citizens with OTHER American citizens via telephone land lines, cell phones, email, and VOIP to the extent that The United States Government has absolutely NO IDEA just what information he was able to abscond with.

This leaves open the notion that there might be hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, nay HUNDREDS of thousands of employees of government contractors who might have been able to do the EXACT same thing.

"Gulliver" is only three letters away from "gullible".

Sleep well.

[limpyhobbler]

35. kick. nt

[Logical]

38. Kick! nt