video shows RFK son in scuffle with nurses, they were stopping him from taking 2 day old outside

[Liberal_in_LA]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/02/surveillence-video-shows-robert-f-kennedys-son-in-scuffle-with-nurses/




Surveillance video shows Douglas Kennedy, the son of Robert F. Kennedy, who was arrested on misdemeanor charges of child endangerment and harassment relating to a Jan. 7 scuffle in the maternity unit of Northern Westchester Hospital, in a violent scuffle with two nurses.

Two nurses allege Kennedy twisted one’s wrist and kicked the other while they tried to prevent him from taking his two-day old son outside.

Kennedy says he was trying to take his son, Beau, out for some fresh air, when nurses tried to stop him.

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“These charges are absurd,” Kennedy and his wife, Molly said in a statement. “It is sickening to think that our simple desire to take our son outside for fresh air has been warped into a charge of child endangerment.”

On the surveillance video, you see Kennedy lift his leg and a nurse fall backwards on the floor.

[whistler162]

1. That would be fantastic if John F Kennedy Jr.

was able to be in a scuffle.

You mean RFK's son. Who is alive.

[Liberal_in_LA]

3. oops. Thanks

[morningfog]

2. Why is the hospital claiming property rights of his baby?

I hope they sue the hospital.

[Liberal_in_LA]

5. nurses considered it an abduction. Hospitals are super strict about release from

hospital

[morningfog]

7. It is messed up. It is his kid.

Was it in ICU?

[Liberal_in_LA]

8. I don't think so

[Mojorabbit]

15. THe hospital is liable for the child while it is still admitted

He should have had the wife's doc discharge the child if he wanted to take the baby out esp if the nurses told him it was against hospital policy. When I worked as a nurse that section of the hospital was kept fairly secure. You do not want a lot of people in and out to possibly spread infection. I read where he fell or almost fell holding that baby when he tried to kick a nurse.

[morningfog]

19. No one should need a doctors permission to take their own child out.

It just shows how far we've gone. Hospitals and doctors have far too much power.

People go in and out all the time, even in maternity wards. The infection risk argument doesn't really hold.

[Darth_Kitten]

21. That's why hospitals are germ factories.

People going in and out all the time.

[morningfog]

39. Maybe they should just let more people go, then.

It the baby wasn't in ICU, I don't understand why it was even still in the hospital. I don't know what the condition of the mother was, but I haven't read that she was in any kind of emergency state, either.

[jberryhill]

56. "I haven't read that she was in any kind of emergency state"

So what.

Patient information is confidential. Did you read whether it was a C-section birth? No.

Are you entitled to know that? No.

[morningfog]

72. Just saying, there has yet to be shown any reason why the hospital should still

have control over a 2 day old baby.

Unless I see otherwise, I am going to side with the dad.

[jberryhill]

54. And they are supposed to know it is his and he has that right, how?

First off, a man carrying a baby is not necessarily the father.

Secondly, the father of a baby does not necessarily have the right to take that baby anywhere.

People, including separated fathers, attempt to kidnap babies from hospitals all of the time. That's why there are procedures in place to make sure that nobody removes a baby unless and until their identity and legal right is authenticated.

Your statement to the effect that any father, or even mother, has the right to take a baby out of the hospital is uninformed, and it is quite simple to come up with a number of scenarios under which that is simply not true.

[Major Nikon]

31. The hospital doesn't have the right to hold anyone hostage, including a baby.

He might have been breaking their rules, but that doesn't entitle the hospital to use physical restraint against him. If I'm in a hospital bed and I want to leave, the hospital can't hold me there against my will. A parent has the same rights in regard to their children.

I agree that he should have done things differently, but that doesn't excuse the actions of the hospital staff.

[jberryhill]

55. "A parent has the same rights in regard to their children."

In your world, I assume that divorces, restraining orders, and custody orders do not exist, and that it is immediately apparent on sight who has authority to remove a baby from a hospital.

In the real world, those things do exist, and it is not visually apparent who is the parent of a baby being removed from a hospital, or which baby they are carrying.

Babies sometimes get mixed up in hospitals if procedures designed to prevent that from happening are not followed.

[Major Nikon]

79. That's a completely separate issue

If the person didn't have legal custody, they never should have been allowed to get close enough to touch the baby. In my world, hospital nurseries have something called controlled access, YMMV.

[JonLP24]

78. I don't know about this case

but last time I was in a hospital I was roommates with someone recovering from an accident, he would constantly try to leave but staff would always stop and called security to put him in restraints until he appeared to calm down. It was sad though, I remember one time he was yelling, "What judge did I stand in front of? What jury convicted me? Why are you holding me prisoner?"

I'm never getting on a motorcycle.

[leeroysphitz]

53. All the more reason to stop him from taking the newborn outside.

Those nurses were very brave.

[hedgehog]

6. "“I witnessed the incident and I can state unequivocally that the nurses were the only aggressors,”

If by "aggressors" you mean "acting to prevent an apparent kidnapping" then yes, yes, the nurses were the only aggressors.

Did Kennedy identify himself properly?

[Darth_Kitten]

22. I'm thinking, what kind of professional speaks of his colleagues like this?

I'm sure nurses have nothing better to do than attack Kennedys.

[CTyankee]

9. OK, so shoot me. I trust the nurses on this one.

He could have been more courteous and respectful of where he was. I can't see that this is a case of deranged nurses. He could have followed protocol. It is there to protect babies such as his little boy. It looks to me like he is doing a kind of swagger with the kid under his arm.

It makes me mad that nurses aren't given their due respect. They have a serious job to do...

[Liberal_in_LA]

11. Even new moms don't just pick up the baby and roll out the door

adults either. I recently had out patient surgery. The surgery person remained at my side until she handed me over to the person who drove me home. That person had to park and come inside. Hospitals have procedures in place because of liability.

[RB TexLa]

23. What do you mean "even new moms," there's no need for sexism.

[Liberal_in_LA]

26. meaning she's actually the hospital patient who the baby is associated with

[uppityperson]

12. Exactly, thank you.

[CTyankee]

16. It makes me wonder if he had been drinking and just got aggressive...

sort of "you can't push me around!" Alcohol abuse isn't unknown in that family...

[RB TexLa]

24. Or maybe the nurses had been drinking. Maybe that's why that one fell down.

[Liberal_in_LA]

25. ridiculous!

[Nye Bevan]

30. YES. Drunken, aggressive, physically abusive nurses are a growing problem

in our hospitals.

[Liberal_in_LA]

34. you left out the sarcasm smilie

[Nye Bevan]

38. Never used it. Never will. (nt)

[CTyankee]

57. Nice. Aren't you special...

[mainer]

37. Totally agree. Kennedy was acting weird.

Parents don't just "take their babies out for a walk" from the newborn unit. If I were a nurse, I would have confronted him too. All he had to do was stop and talk to them and explain who he was. It looks like he didn't even do that, but just kept trying to escape the hospital.

[dems_rightnow]

10. Child endangerment is probably a stretch.

But he's going to see some trouble for kicking the nurse.

[hedgehog]

13. Engaging in a shoving match while holding an infant

on one arm seems to be child endangerment to me.

In a big hospital, there is no reason to assume nurses on the maternity floor recognize the emergency room doctor; he could have been anyone in scrubs.

It's also possible that the nurses there had never seen Douglas Kennedy before and weren't acting to enforce stupid hospital rules but rather to prevent a kidnapping.

In any case, how ignorant can you be to realize that you don't walk off the maternity floor with a newborn baby? Hospitals work like hell to isolate that floor from other floors to prevent infections.

I'm wondering if the doctor involved got a reprimand. He should have!

[magical thyme]

33. it takes 2+ to have a shoving match

They stopped by the nurse's station first to get permission.

Anybody in scrubs would not be wearing a photo-id badge, nor would a fake badge allow them onto the maternity ward. At least where I work, your badge must be visible.

The ER doctor has to work with those nurses and their associates at that hospital. I don't believe he chose friendship over employment when he stated that the nurses were the aggressors and that Kennedy was not violent toward anybody.

At least where I work, you prevent a kidnapping by calling security, describing the abductor, advising which stairway or elevator they're headed toward and issuing a code pink. You do NOT directly intervene, since you aren't specifically trained to safely apprehend child abductors and such people may be armed and dangerous. You allow security to greet said abductor at the elevator/stairwell doorway. The hospital will be in lockdown and the abductor will not leave the building.

From what I've read, I think the nurses were out of line and overreacted. But I work in a hospital and I know they make mistakes and can act like little gods and goddesses. And since they're the 99% and Kennedy is the 1% I guess around here he's guilty by association.

[aquart]

32. I do not think child endangerment is a stretch.

I have NEVER heard of a parent walking into a hospital nursery and removing an infant. HAVE YOU?
Why are we pretending that there was anything normal about this behavior? Who takes a newborn outside?

And then to be violent with the nurses? But the child wasn't in danger? Like hell it wasn't.

[Politicalboi]

14. He didn't need to kick anyone

They have rules at hospitals. Maybe they weren't sure who he was. And wrestling with nurses while holding a baby is crazy. Granted he should have been able to hold his baby, but this sounds like, since I'm a Kennedy, damn the rules. They should have called the head nurse and explained to him that taking the baby outside wasn't allowed. The nurses were just doing their job in trying to protect the baby. Nobody knows if he and his wife were having trouble, and he was going to steal the kid. Even though the nurses were the ones who got physical first, they were just protecting the baby. Don't get me wrong, I love the Kennedy's, but some of them think their shit don't stink.

[CTyankee]

17. I just hate it that nurses are so disrespected! They are, on the whole, just the best, the most

skilled, caring group of professionals I have ever known. I had a long hospital stay due to complications from surgery back in 07 and in all my weeks in the hospital I only had one nurse who was not up to par, and she was just clearly not cut out for the nursing profession. The rest were totally professional, highly skilled and competent. I couldn't thank them enough for what they did for me...

[Arkansas Granny]

18. What a stupid move on his part. I can't see any reason why he should think he

could leave the maternity ward with the infant before he had been released by his doctor to go home. The nurses were doing their job. The fact that he would go so far as to scuffle with hospital staff over this policy while holding an infant makes me question his judgment.

[DianaForRussFeingold]

20. Hmm..An on-duty doctor was HIS witness...

"Kennedy was accompanied by a family friend, Dr. Timothy Haydock, who was also an on-duty doctor at the hospital, during the Jan. 7 skirmish."

“I witnessed the incident and I can state unequivocally that the nurses were the only aggressors,” Haydock said.

[mainer]

58. Where is this "family friend" on the video?!!

If Dr. Haydock was accompanying Kennedy, he didn't get on the elevator with him. There's only one male in a scrub suit who shows up on the video, after the nurses try to stop Kennedy, and he looks like he might be an orderly. Since Dr. Haydock was "off-duty," I doubt it was him in the scrub suit.

Methinks Dr. Haydock was not telling the truth.

[DianaForRussFeingold]

71. I thought that was Dr. Haydock in scrubs...!

It says "on-duty" at the link....
~"Kennedy was accompanied by a family friend, Dr. Timothy Haydock, who was also an on-duty doctor at the hospital, during the Jan. 7 skirmish."

You can't beat DU for cutting through all the crap
and getting to the truth..!

[mainer]

73. He looks good for a 62-year-old

You're right. It does say on-duty.

[Evasporque]

27. Hey if that kid is going to be a bowman...

They need to acclimated to ready for what ever mother nature throws at you....

[Nye Bevan]

28. Kicked a nurse in the pelvis? Asshole. (nt)

[itsrobert]

29. A Kennedy baby would be a target for kidnappers

Doesn't that not register with a Kennedy?

[magical thyme]

35. they stopped at the nurses' station first

So it appears that they thought they had permission.

Maybe the 2 nurses thought he was abducting his baby. But they shouldn't have approached him yelling. Maybe he thought the 2 nurses were trying to grab his baby.

I think this is hospital overreach.

[Liberal_in_LA]

36. Stopped at the nurses station and told no.

[magical thyme]

43. if told no, then obviously that changes everything

link?

[mainer]

40. In the hospital, the nurses need to be listened to

They are there to protect their patients, and I, for one, feel more secure knowing that these nurses were willing to yell and scream to make sure that their patient (the BABY) was safe.

[magical thyme]

41. I don't think yelling and screaming at a possible abductor makes a baby safer

the policy where I work is call code pink, lockdown and let security apprehend the abductor.

People committing crimes are often armed. I think what the nurses did was stupid and dangerous. More dangerous to the baby than anything the father did.

[mainer]

45. Sometimes yelling and screaming is all you can do to save a baby

Security was nowhere in sight yet. And no, baby abductors are seldom armed. If they were, those nurses rushed into the situation caring more about their patient than their own lives, and that's another reason to admire them.

[magical thyme]

49. security doesn't have to be in sight

there are specific hospital policies in place. They called Code Pink. That puts the hospital in lockdown. All exits are locked.

In fact, security apprehended Kennedy on the floor in the stairwell where the altercation took place.

In the event of an actual abduction, they would have called description and direction to security. All other personnel in the hospital would have been on the lookout at assigned positions.

In the lab, it would be at our window in the back and the phlebotomy entrance into the main hallway.

If we saw somebody with a suspicious bundle, we would NOT attempt to apprehend, but would alert security.

"And no, baby abductors are seldom armed." You are joking, right? Patients are seldomed armed too. Policies aren't written for the people who are unarmed. They are written for the few who are.

I don't admire those nurses or their attempted heroics. I think they acted poorly and put the baby in at least as much danger as his father did, if not more.

[Mumble]

42. So the general public has to know all the rules that hospitals follow or suffer the consequences.

The kid was Kennedy's and the staff should have politely explained to him the situation. And if Kennedy still wanted to take the kid outside he should have been allowed to without the hassle if they recognized him to be the father.

[Liberal_in_LA]

47. does a two year old really need fresh air?

[Mumble]

48. does a two year old really need fresh air?

yes

[Liberal_in_LA]

80. a meant to say 'two day old"

[mainer]

51. A two day old -- no.

That kid could have plenty of fresh air after his discharge in a day or two. This insistence on taking him out for fresh air, against nursing advice, was strange.

Having worked in hospitals, and having given birth twice, this situation just seems strange.

[fredamae]

44. Who's Child Is it? Kennedy's or the States?

I would think Every parent would act this way-

[mainer]

46. It's not clear the nurses knew that was HIS kid

EVERY NURSE would act this way. Kennedy was way out of line.

[Mumble]

50. So how did he get possession of his kid in the first place?

Can anyone just walk into a hospital and remove any baby? The hospital should have asked for id before he was allow access to the baby. The hospital should be liable if some stranger takes a baby. And they should have a procedure to follow that allows nobody other than authorized visitors by the family to have access. The hospital is clearly at fault here!

[mainer]

52. That's a good question, isn't it? The video doesn't show it.

Enough newborns are abducted from neonatal units that nurses are quick to respond. All you have to do is take the elevator, walk in, lift a baby out of the bassinet, and leave.

Unless a nurse stops you and starts yelling.

Any REASONABLE dad would have stopped to have a conversation and explain himself. It doesn't look like he would even stop. He just kept heading for the exit. THAT IS SUSPICIOUS to any nurse.

[CTyankee]

61. He should have gone to the nurses' station, identified himself, and asked if he could take the baby

out for a "breath of fresh air" and then heard that no, it was not something that they would allow as long as the baby was officially in their hospital. And at that point, he should have returned to the room to his wife and his baby and that's that. WTF? Once the baby was home (a matter of a day or maybe hours away) he could "take the baby out for fresh air" and so what?

This is a "power play" if I ever saw one.

A big thank you to the nurses, if you ask me....

[magical thyme]

64. actually, the 2 doctors DID go to the nurses' station first

someone upthread claims he was told "no" but has yet to provide a link.

I linked to the nurses' station info somewhere else in here...it said the baby was bundled in blankets with a hat.

[CTyankee]

68. it doesn't matter if there is no clearance by at the nurses station. Just because he had

his "guys" at the hospital, didn't mean he could circumvent protocols.

Why on earth would nurses have bothered with "attacking" him if no violation of protocol had happened? Or do you think they are just naturally violent?

[midnight]

59. I don't see Kennedy kick nurse... and I don't agree with news reporters guest that

charges are most likely stemming from our concern for child safety...In this country our
children's safety vs profit... Our children take a back seat.... There is something else going one here and it's not about safety....

[Mojorabbit]

74. I saw pictures of it yesterday(kicking nurse). If you look around the net you can find them. nt

[mainer]

60. Dr. Haydock graduated in 1979 and has practiced for 33 years

There is NO SIGN of him in the video. He is definitely not the buff young guy in the scrub suit that shows up in the video. Dr. Haydock did not witness any of the scuffle.

[magical thyme]

62. so now you're calling the ER doctor a liar

amazing.

[mainer]

63. Yep. Because there's video evidence he didn't see anything.

He wasn't there. Yet he claims he saw it all. He says the nurses were the aggressors.

Show me the doctor in the elevator or in the hallway or anywhere near the altercation, and then I'll say you're right.

[magical thyme]

65. oh puleeze. The video shows one small bit of space.

the ER doctor was with Kennedy when they went to the nurses' station together for permission. He could very easily have been out of the video's very limited range.

I don't see anybody on the limited video images other than one nurse and Kennedy. But the articles quote a second nurse. I guess she's lying too.

And you claim there is a young doctor there in scrubs, but I don't see him on the video stills, so I guess that's a lie too.

Someone upthread claims they were denied permission at the nurses' station, but has yet to provide a link.

[mainer]

66. There are two nurses there

including the one who falls out of the elevator.

The video shows THE ENTIRE HALLWAY leading up to the elevator. How did the doctor hide from it?

[magical thyme]

67. from the articles I read, the nurse fell out of the stairwell

not the elevator. Are you sure you're looking at the correct video?

The stills I've seen show a small bit of space and nothing more.

The incident started at the elevator. When the nurse approached screaming at him, he went to the stairwell. Maybe the ER doctor was lagging behind.

[CTyankee]

70. Oh, hush! You can't contradict a doctor! Especially a male dr. They are always right!

them nurses are NEVER to be trusted! We all know how aggressive they can be!

[Bonobo]

69. Stupid behavior from a guy who grows up feeling entitled.

What else can you say?

It is a combo of stupidity, arrogance and a sense of entitlement beyond that of the "commoners".

[EFerrari]

75. Well, the version I read said that he got permission from one nurse

and then encountered these two. So, it looks like mixed messages.

[Bonobo]

76. I could imagine that happening, BUT

It wouldn't go very far towards explaining how he would allow a situation to spiral that far out of control while he was holding a 2 day old baby.

To me, that indicates a person with impulse control problems EVEN if the nurses were wrong and also escalated.

[EFerrari]

77. Yeah, that's out of control. nt