Slut shaming of Miley Cyrus is sexism and racism in action

[coldmountain]

Lets be honest, Miley has committed the ultimate sin for a successful white female star. She rejected Disney and Nashville and went and hung out with black rappers. What makes it worse to mainstreet is she is still making a bunch of money with her song "We can't Stop" around 2 to 3 on the Billboard top 100 for 11 weeks. Yes she was rubbing it in, but I think mainstreet doth protest far too much.

Furthermore, her sexual prancing around is nothing we hadn't seen from Mick Jagger and men singers for 50 years. Many of her critics have hypocritically paid hundreds of dollars to go see the Rolling Stones. And god forbid she stick her tongue out like Gene Simmons or Billy Idol!

Is what she's doing any worse than singing about drinking "Kentucky Clear" and dancing on the tailgate of a pickup truck. Make no mistake about it, Miley is a very good country singer, go to You Tube and search for Miley's "backyard sessions" or her duet with Dolly Parton singing "Jolene" where she looks like a hostage. Personally I like Americana music and would rather see her sing songs like her cover of Bob Dylan's "Your gonna make me lonesome when you go" which she sang on the Ellen show and got a standing ovation. But she has the werewithall as an artist to go where she wants. This is the most controversery about art since "Piss Jesus". The hypocrisy of this whole kerfuffle is sickening

[LaydeeBug]

1. It is not slut shaming. I know sluts. They have more dignity.

Ridic is ridic. Period. She's free to express herself. We're free to respond.

This wasn't 'sexual prancing'. This was undulating with Teddy Bears and Mickey Mouse's hand. It was weird.

But we're all talking about it. So there's that.

[BainsBane]

6. No stripper would be caught dead acting like that fool

And no, I'm not saying strippers are sluts.

[LaydeeBug]

12. I'm with you.

We just can't dignify every fool move people make and call it 'expression'. I mean, yes, it is expression, and so too is it expression when we express disdain.

That was NOT *art*. I was borderline kiddie porn and those teddy bears made it even more *weird*.

I am woman. Hear me roar!

[EOTE]

137. Borderline kiddie porn?!? From a 20 year old?

This ridiculous hysteria I'm hearing over a silly performance reminds me a lot of the Clinton/Lewinsky days where I'd hear all those republicans screaming about Clinton taking advantage of an "innocent, little child". Now the infantilization is here. It's really no less sick when it's on display here.

[LaydeeBug]

140. It seems the "ridiculous hysteria" is yours, undulating TEDDY BEARS notwithstanding. nt

[EOTE]

142. Oh, so Teddy Bears are now kiddie porn too?

I'm sure the furry community of millions would find a fuck ton of offense in that, not that you'd give one damn. Too busy scolding the youngsters to stay off your lawn, keeping their frisbees and accusing mainstream entertainers of promoting kiddie porn. Old people are hilarious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furry_fandom

[LaydeeBug]

166. Like all things porn, kiddie or not, you know it when you see it

and this was uncomfortably close.

Don't claim the moral high ground while you're standing in quicksand.

[EOTE]

185. So, you know kiddie porn when you see it and this is definitely kiddie porn?

I won't even venture to guess as to why you'd make a statement like that. Let's not mistake what you said here, you said that a 20 year old performer twerking and making other salacious gestures was borderline kiddie porn. I'm just still trying to wrap my head around what, precisely, that says about you.

[LaydeeBug]

246. Wow, you're being pretty dense. So much so that it's best that you don't venture. I agree. nt

[jwirr]

212. From a 20 year old who Disney industry has made into a child idol and now she is acting in a

way that most parents object to . We are no longer letting our kids watch the Disney brigade.

[EOTE]

225. I see.

So it's only when former Disney idols stick out their tongues and gyrate wildly that it becomes kiddie porn. Makes sense to me.

If parents don't want to let their children watch that stuff, that's fine and any parent's choice. However, to act like MTV was once family friendly fare and last Sunday's VMAs was some huge departure is a laugh riot.

[LaydeeBug]

248. No, you don't see...because YOU WON'T see...

These are matters of OPINIONS and you will not be bullying anyone into acquiescing to YOUR notion of acceptable.

Like porn, (metaphor a little out of your league, I see) we know it when we see it.

[EOTE]

257. Who the hell is the bully here?

You didn't say it was your opinion, you said that it was borderline kiddie porn. And it's my opinion that what you said was utterly asinine and well beyond typical 'get off my lawn' idiocy. But apparently you think free speech only goes one way or else you're being bullied. Poor little thing.

[LaydeeBug]

267. LOL...now you're projecting.

It was borderline kiddie porn. The teddy bears helped. So did the hair, the choreography and the giant mickey mouse foam finger.

I am an advocate for free speech, which is exactly why I am free to express my opinion on the matter.

I don't need your permission for that. kthanksbai

[RedRocco]

191. perhaps the choreographer chose the imagery

in order to try and say something about how Miley was sexualized from an early age by Disney?

[iemitsu]

210. You may be right about the choreographer having some control over the

type of moves, and the message they sent, during Miley's performance, but, as I commented to my wife while we watched Cyrus, it sure didn't look like she had practiced her choreographed moves before getting on stage. She was off mark and awkward. And the inclusion of stuffed animals was difficult to understand. Was the performance satirical? Was she making fun of other performers?

[BainsBane]

247. No

[lumpy]

37. Miley's brand of pseudo sexuality might be appreciated by some dirty old men.

n

[Gravitycollapse]

48. It's not exactly your place to decide what is what is not someone's sexuality.

Might want to check your argument.

[BainsBane]

80. The point lumpy was responding to was about who would find Miley's act sexy.

S/he is entitled to an opinion on what s/he finds sexy, just like anyone else.

[LaydeeBug]

99. Um..it is when it was part of a public performance. nt

[whathehell]

128. Correct. n/t

[Bay Boy]

214. If her performance was designed to turn 'this' old man on..

...it missed it's mark.

_____
/ \
| | <---target >>>arrow--> (went that a way)
\_____/

[davidpdx]

93. I'd call it acting stupid and immature

from what I've seen happened. I didn't watch the actual awards, but saw pictures online. If she wants to act stupid, then she should be called on it.

[LaydeeBug]

100. Oh, the pictures do not do it justice. You can't "unsee" this

You should check it out, really.

[davidpdx]

108. No thanks, I'll pass

I really don't feel like throwing up.

[Supersedeas]

180. No, I'll pass too.

Consequently, I'll risk being called a racist, a misogynist and other pejoratives because I'd rather not sit through that sort of thing.

Public foam finger dancing doesn't do it for me and if enjoying that sort of thing is what it takes to be allowed into the tolerant camp, I'll just have to live with being labeled intolerant by the new in-crowd who define themselves with the foam fingers that they grind in public. Does this "dance" really define the values of large categories of people in any fundamental way, in ways that would cause them to be offended if others dare decide that the public grind of the foam finger is not for them?

We all have our limits. Who knows there that finger has been?

[lame54]

221. It's MTV - the channel that brought us JackAss...

I think stupid and immature is their thing

[davidpdx]

264. Well back in the day

(and saying that makes me feel old) MTv used to actually be a pretty good channel. I was in my early teens when it started, so I remember the first few years it was around.

[dflprincess]

270. I'd call it vulgar

And a 20 year old simulating sex with a married man in his late 30s is not "empowering women" as one idiot said.

[davidpdx]

273. I'll agree to stupid and vulgar

[Nuclear Unicorn]

109. Indeed, ridiculous,

I'm also curious to know why, if someone rehearses for weeks a choreographed routine than has no purpose except to depict a hyper-charged indiscriminate sexuality they should in anyway feel slut-shamed. If they WANT to be a slut what is the harm in treating them like a slut? Not treating them as a slut actually defeats their intent.

Does the anarchists whose clothes, tattoos and attitude are designed to reject corporate America complain about not being seated on the Board of Directors?

And since when has it ever been OK to demand people like a certain thing? I'm pretty ambivalent about the performance itself but I'm very solidly against being told what I must and must not like in order to remain in good societal standing. It's just another form of hypocrisy akin to the moralist caught in an out-of-wedlock sexual relationship.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

112. +1

[msanthrope]

123. I love this post, and want to buy it a drink. nt

[Aerows]

148. LOL

I love this comment and want to buy it a drink! But yes, that was a great post.

[LaydeeBug]

124. God Bless you for this...abso*fucking*lutely. nt

[In_The_Wind]

158. !

[DebJ]

187. Ding ding ding:

If they WANT to be a slut what is the harm in treating them like a slut? Not treating them as a slut actually defeats their intent

[Supersedeas]

280. Exactly

[Xithras]

171. Exactly. Slut shaming is wrong, but Cyrus wasn't acting slutty.

She honestly reminded me of a meth'd-out tweaker. There was nothing even vaguely erotic about her performance.

Sluts make the world a better place. Miley just weirded everyone out.

[LaydeeBug]

251. ^^this^^. nt

[Liberal_in_LA]

2. i agree with kelly osbourne . put your damn tongue back in your mouth

[Orrex]

133. She was actually talking to Gene Simmons and Michael Jordan

[Voice for Peace]

217. First thing I was reminded of is the Hindu Goddess Kali

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali

The figure of Kāli conveys death, destruction, and the consuming aspects of reality. As such, she is also a "forbidden thing", or even death itself.

Almost always depicted with a huge tongue hanging out.

[freshwest]

3. Thanks for telling the story. I saw the 'kerfuffle' at DU and only remembered Billy Ray Cyrus.

Didn't even know what gender Miley was, color, talent, or anything.

[DevonRex]

20. It's not kerfuffle.

We have it on very high authority that it's kerfunkle. No word yet from Art Garfuffle on the hijacking of the tail-end of his name.

[Kali]

28. !!!

I was going to post that! kerfunkle

[DevonRex]

33. :-) :-) :-)

[freshwest]

39. I was always fond of wise sounding words like Gahfurgle, myself.

It says so much and yet so little at the same time.

[Warren DeMontague]

52. It's a bungled bunch of Uncle Funcle's Carbuncles.

Brought to you by the knob-gobblin' hobgoblins from Gobbler's Knob.

[SidDithers]

139. LOL!...

thanks for the laugh. I needed it after reading some of the bullshit being posted here today.



Sid

[MineralMan]

143. Korekt. Kerfunkle it is.

This is DU. We have our own language here.

[AnnetteJacobs]

177. Actually, it's Farkel...as in the Farkel Family

That's Frank Farkel, Fannie Farkel, Simon and Gar Farkel, Sparkle Farkel, Charcoal Farkel, and Flicker Farkel ("HIIIIII!&quot

[DevonRex]

205. LOL!

Thanks for that. I had forgotten it.

[elehhhhna]

242. I knew a kid who's family called him Farkle (a ginger)...

the nickname was shortened, over time, to Fark.

They moved to florida. One day at the beach they were preparing to go home and he didn't want to leave the water. Their Dad went down the beach yelling "FARK! FARK!". People panicked and started to run out of the water onto the beach.

Hilarity ensued.

[zappaman]

261. Kerflunkle!

[DevonRex]

262. ....

Dion said it's worse than riffle! I don't know. Riffles have rudges???

[Logical]

4. It was not entertaining, sexy or exciting. It was sick. n-t

[BainsBane]

5. There is a major difference between Jagger and Miley

She has no talent and looked like a complete fool. I don't care what she wore. That whole episode was a decent into the worst music performance I've ever seen in my life, and the Teddy Bear thing was the worst of it. You act like a fool in public and people will talk. There was absolutely nothing sexy about her act. She thought it was, but I would be very surprised if anyone else thought so.

[freshwest]

83. Yeah, but when I was a teen I loved Jagger. And it wasn't about talent, hahaha.

It was all about his attitude. Note how Charlie Watts is laughing at Mick's antics at the last frame there.

Just sayin'

[iemitsu]

219. Jagger does look silly here but his moves were undoubtedly impromptu

and unrehearsed, yet he is much more smooth and natural than Cyrus is in her "practiced" performance.
Jagger's gimmick was the result of crowds loving his silly moves, Cyrus is attempting to emulate him or Madonna or someone, but it does not appear natural or appealing, it just looks awkward.
And the Teddy Bears?

[freshwest]

249. Fortunately for me, I don't watch teevee anymore. So I miss all these horrors!

I have no way to form a correct opinion on this person. It appears the OP is speaking of other values rather than the performance itself.

The critical reviews of the quality, or lack of such in her performance do not seem to be on topic. Some Americans resent or mistrust any B&W collaboration, due to a prejudice known as miscogenation.

Those days are long gone for us at DU, but some benighted citizens are still hostile about such things. Perhaps OP has concerns about what OP sees as sexist and racist and is using this to draw some out.

Not you. I'm speaking generally and think the POV of the OP author is that criticism of Miley is not warranted. It's no use for me to judge what those who have grown up in a different era than myself find to be tasteful. I doubt if I'd enjoy her performance as it's described here, but it appears the OP found nothing objectionable. She has not returned to answer AFAIK, but I may have missed it.

I agree with the OP that men have been acting sexy in performances for years. Especially Jagger and Tyler. Tell me this video isn't gratuitous sexual imagery here:

It was outrageous. I still love it, but some might find it offensive today. Yes, it was definitely sexist in terms of the power aspects and the guys were acting their sexist roles out, but it looks like no one was unwilling. I laugh at it, each to his own.

IMO, the OP is right about men getting a pass. There may be both sexism, slut shaming and racism going on in the reaction to this woman's stage act.

It's hard to tell with half the populace playing at being Simon Cowell, who I think is a shallow, obnoxious jerk. But it's what media has turned many into, going after Obama for not having ketchup on his burgers, and all of that.

I think it's all shallow stuff, racism, sexism and all of the phobias.

Thanks for the chat, see you later.

Oh, and I would not have liked to have seen teddy bears used in a music show for adults with sexual themes. That's creepy. But I think Disney is creepy, too...

[progressoid]

7. And the song sucked.

[Union Scribe]

8. I'm way more offended by you calling this "about art"

than I am by anything else in the silly spectacle.

[lumpy]

44. Not art no way. A flop all the way. She simply does not sex appeal, her under developed body

is hardly enticing, her butt jiggling and the tongue bit didn't do the job. She could take off all her clothes, stand on her head and that still wouldn't do the job.

[quakerboy]

190. Maybe her goal needent be to sex appeal you?

To appropriate your interesting turn of phrase. Why does it need to "do the job" for you?

And why are we talking about any of this when Macklemore won an award for a song with interesting lyrics, we are about to start another war in the middle east, and we have a number of domestic situations in crisis?

Nermind, I guess the answer is in the question, for all of those.

[lumpy]

198. The point is that her act was not artful and failed the talent test.

Are you inferring that we don't take an interest in more troubling subjects? How do you know anyway? Most of us are not brain dead.

[quakerboy]

203. MY point is, why does it matter?

Are the VMA's important? Ive seen dozens of threads on this now. On something that I care about just as much as a new royal birth, or who will be playing Batman.

And not a single one on "same love" winning an award.

So I gotta wonder what about this whole thing makes it worth so much time on DU as compared to things I thought Democrats cared about more than whether a particular performance shows talent or artistic ability.

[lumpy]

215. Well then, why are you even taking the time to respond to anyone else's take on Miley's

performance ? Don't you have more important things to talk about ?

[quakerboy]

272. If you read my limited posts on the matter

I think you will find that I consistently take the time to point out that Macklemore won an award for his song "same love", which is to me is easily the most important part of the VMAs this year. And also that this whole ginned up controversy is distracting us from that.

And other things of actual importance.

[coldmountain]

47. Miley is interpreting "rachet culture" for white people Think Progress also says "slut shaming"

Last night at the Video Music Awards, Miley Cyrus, who, much like Ke$ha, has come under some criticism for her incorporation of certain cultural affectations, including the dance style called twerking, into her recent work, gave a performance that intensified that conversation (and inspired some grade-a body shaming, concern-trolling, and slut-shaming):

http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2013/08/26/2527091/miley-cyrus-vmas-britney-spears-bisexual/

[Laelth]

116. That's a good essay. Thanks for the link. n/t

-Laelth

[mick063]

9. I grew up in a different era

She looked absurd to me.

I suppose Alice Cooper looked absurd to my parents as well.

Regardless, nothing about her performance on the award show was appealing to me. I suppose I would like the pole dancer routine if I found her attractive. Isn't that what a routine like that is intended for? To find her sexually appealing? Just personal preference as I suppose she is attractive to many people.

I don't know. I watched stuff like that when I was a young sailor many years ago. No shortage of shipmates coaxing you into an adventurous night. I guess I'm just an old fart now.

[dawg]

10. Or ....

it could just be that she looked foolish.

[Harmony Blue]

11. The problem I have with Miley Cyrus

is that she is using over exaggerated sex appeal which is why it is comical (eg Smith family reaction). Madonna can pull it off ,and to an extent Lady Gaga, because they actually have a message behind what they are trying to do. What is Miley trying to convey about twerking? Madonna kissing a black priest was a strong message or Lady Gaga's support of LGBT issues.

Madonna uses controversy to provoke a response to a cause while Miley uses controversy for attention to stay relevant.

Apples and oranges.

[fujiyama]

13. Someone on FB made an interesting comment

asking why no one is asking about the male dancer singing a song called "blurred lines" which may be alluding to rape.

Good question. Miley's performance was bizarre and not particularly entertaining. The tongue thing made her look like a damn dog sticking her head out the window and the dance was neither cute or sexy. I felt sorta creeped out because she looks like a kid.

And the song was just God awful auto-tuned garbage. It's evident she's talentless (at least when it comes to singing and dancing), so this was a great way to get publicity and break away from her earlier fan base, though I have to wonder who she's trying to appeal to other than creepy old men.

[Harmony Blue]

16. I didn't like his performance either

so he just added to the trainwreck.

[annm4peace]

14. why does she stick her tongue out like that?

I didn't get it. Was she suppose to look like some type of animation character?

[bamacrat]

174. Because she is a moron. She tries too hard to be cool and edgy, but comes off a douche.

Same reason she has the foghorn leghorn hair style.

[MissMarple]

256. I have to agree with you. It was a bad imitation of a cheap trick. Pathetic.

[LaydeeBug]

15. Oh, and "Piss Jesus" is pretty gross too...just so you know that each OPINION is their own. nt

[coldmountain]

24. Miley got the best review of the night in Rolling Stone magazine

It's Miley, Bitch: The Tongue That Licked the World
By ROB SHEFFIELD
POSTED: August 26, 3:16 PM ET

Oh, Miley. That was priceless. Miley was the one star in the room who truly understood what the MTV Video Music Awards are all about — waggling your tongue, grabbing your crotch, rocking a foam finger, going to third with the Care Bears, twerking and shrieking and acting out America's goriest pop-psycho nightmares. She showed up Robin Thicke as one uptight douche, though he helped by dressing as the world's edgiest Foot Locker manager. Miley stole the night, which is why the nation is still in recovery today. Thanks, Miley — as Justin used to sing, back in the 'NSync days, God must have spent a little more time on you.


Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/blogs/pop-life/its-miley-bitch-the-tongue-that-licked-the-world-20130826#ixzz2dEg8eqNH

[wild bird]

34. Rolling Stone is right about one thing and one thing only,

the nation is still in recovery today, recovering from her disgustingly obscene performance, nay, pornographic demonstration.

She's nothing more than a talentless woman.

Sexism and racism? Ridiculous in the extreme.

[Warren DeMontague]

50. "The nation is still in recovery today" ...Oh, heavens, that sounds serious.

Whatever shall we do? Pray?

[wild bird]

55. Pray that she never does another performance like that again.

I guess.

[Warren DeMontague]

60. Right. It would be a national tragedy if MTV's Video Music Awards stopped being the important

cultural touchstone that we as a nation expect them to be.

Or, let's put it another way: The last time I actually watched that thing it was specifically to see Michael Stipe take off a series of t-shirts with Anti-Bush statements. Yeah, that's the first Bush.

So by my estimation, that must have been 1991.

Ergo, Miley Cyrus got me to watch 10 minutes of that show for the first time in 22 years.

Call it what you will.

[mattclearing]

110. That Stipe incident is my gold standard for acceptance speeches. nt

[riqster]

152. Mine too.

He actually had one for every award for which REM had been nominated, and had removed one for each of the prior awards they had won that evening.

When they got to the last one, he removed the remaining shirts so as to make all the remaining points.

A great rant from the band:

http://m.

&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DlGrIeMvLiK4

[mattclearing]

155. Nice performance of it, too. Thanks for that. :) n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

236. Totally. What was cool about it, too, in retrospect is that at least for me, it had seemed like

we had spent the past 10 years being bombarded by the media with the message that EVERYONE in the country was on board with the Reagan steamroll that was going on.

Folks don't remember how revolutionary it was at the time to have a band that was being played on the radio being outspoken about something other than the need for big plastic hair picks.

[Dorian Gray]

118. Her performance

caused me to have the vapors.

I must recover!

[bhikkhu]

164. Exactly - the lack of decorum and restraint in youth these days is deplorable

Mrs. Crackenthorpe and the Society of Ladies would be appalled!

[Dorian Gray]

206. Hah!

[Warren DeMontague]

260. "Young Lady, 'twerking' is frowned upon...

...here in Cranford"

[whathehell]

135. Thank you.

Obscene and pornographic, yes

Even most of Hollywood was disgusted, and that's saying something.

Rolling Stone was just indulging their target audience of Adolescent/Post Adolescent Boys.

[Warren DeMontague]

263. Rolling Stone's target audience is Adolescent/Post Adolescent Boys?

Jesus, they'll be thrilled to hear it.

Because like so many other things that are more and more exclusively patronized by aging, crotchety, increasingly-out-of-touch folks (like me!) sputteringly befuddled by their rapidly increasing cultural irrelevance, Rolling Stone isn't exactly finger-on-the-pulse of the culture anymore.

[Mike Daniels]

129. Rolling Stone should stick to commenting about politics at this point

Lord knows their ability to coverage music intelligently has gone down the crapper over the years.

Uncut and Mojo runs circles around Rolling Stone as far as covering the entertainment and music side of things now.

[dionysus]

172. we get it, you're a big fan.

[Nye Bevan]

17. I don't know. Young people today with their skimpy outfits and their sexualized dancing.

It was different back in my day. Now get off my lawn.

[Behind the Aegis]

19. HAHA! I just posted right behind your post with a similar statement.

That just tickled me.

[lunasun]

29. +2013

[nomorenomore08]

31. Once again, I find myself agreeing with you. Surprisingly this keeps happening.

[appleannie1]

71. Two of my grandkids called it the most disgusting thing they had ever seen on TV. My grandson asked

me why she kept playing with her crotch. He thought it was totally tasteless and said he felt sorry for her fiance.

[AnnetteJacobs]

184. And yet they kept watching her

"Kept playing with her crotch" means they didn't shut it off when it happened the first time.

[GoCubsGo]

243. Your grandkids should try watching the evening news.

Lots of things far more disgusting and obscene than that happen in the world every day than Miley Cyrus playing with her crotch.

[appleannie1]

282. They are honor students in high school and college. They will be doing homework instead.

[sendero]

98. LOL...

...... About spat on my keyboard.. U nailed it. I'm in my 50s but I can't work up a drop of outrage over this.

Is it "exploitation"? Well yes I suppose it is, like Madonna and a million others. Does that mean it cannot be "entertaining" on some level?

Tragedy is a word I reserve for war, poverty, sickness, suffering. Not this trivia. Now, get off MY lawn

[dionysus]

179. i'm not outraged, but i think it was a bzarre and pathetic performance.

to each their own.

[Le Taz Hot]

258. Asinine ageist remark n/t

[Nye Bevan]

259. But they call it "music". I only hear noise.

There isn't even a tune you can hum. And when she was dancing with the guy in stripes they did NOT leave room for the Holy Ghost.

[Behind the Aegis]

18. See, back in my day, when music was music and kids stayed off the lawns....

LOL!

I didn't particularly care for the performance or the song, but the performance was nothing more than an extension, of sorts, of her video, which has the teddy bears. Not everyone is going to like it, or think it is appropriate, but given the nature of some videos I see (my partner used to VJ and still gets new music videos) this was almost tame!

I am just glad "Same Love" won the social action award; to me, that is saying something.

[nomorenomore08]

32. +1

Agree with everything you just said...

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. When you stir shit, do you wear latex gloves?

[Harmony Blue]

22. I am trying to figure out how it is racism?

She looks silly twerking. Sorry its the truth.

[VanillaRhapsody]

30. she looked silly cause the point of twerking is.....you gotta have some rump to twerk with

The girl hasn't even grown a lady ass yet! She is still built like a 14 yr old! That's what made it even more creepy looking. She was trying so hard to appear sexy...trying to scream "I AM An ADULT" but it was what she THOUGHT a sexy adult was...it didn't work out as she expected I would guess.

[bravenak]

43. Thank you thank you thank you.

Lil mama thought she looked grown.

[Gravitycollapse]

53. "Lil mama thought she looked grown." - Your comment is gross. Please delete it.

Thank you.

[bravenak]

58. She is little. Like me.

But she hasn't developed all the way yet. So when she was tweaking it she looked like a kid who thought she looked grown. Lil mama is my nickname from my neighborhood. What's gross about that? I call my daughter that.
I'm sorry if you are offended. But she was doing something she didn't know how to do correctly.
If you tell me what's so gross about it I'll delete.
I appreciate your attention and thank you in advance for your explanation.

[Gravitycollapse]

63. Frankly, I don't care what nicknames you had in your neighborhood. Show some respect...

towards someone who's not from your neighborhood. She is a 20 year old woman. Treat her as such.

She has the body of a 20 year old as that is her age. Belittling her in the way you are is gross and you should delete it to maintain what little dignity you have left on this subject.

That's my explanation.

[bravenak]

66. I think you need to take a nap.

You tripping yo. I didn't belittle her. She can do that just fine on her own thank you.
You don't know jack. I worked as a dancer at various clubs in Hollywood. I was talking about her skill level. She can't dance!!!!!!! That was my point. I can dance, very damn well and I face palmed when I saw her all off beat and shit. After five years of dancing naked for money, I am well qualified to judge whether she did a good job or not. I was good at it and still am. I think someone as wealthy as her can handle my critique of her dancing. She wanted us to talk about her.
Now you show some respect and calm yourself down. Don't take your crap out on me.

[Gravitycollapse]

67. Calling her a little mama is not a judgement of her dance skills. It's a put down...

A rather disgusting one at that.

You aren't going to trick me into thinking your inappropriate statements were somehow a well thought out criticism of her dance skills. I am not so daft.

[bravenak]

74. Little mama means....

Small woman. You are reading way too much into the name. Lil=small, mama=woman. Sometimes we say mamacita. It's a term of endearment honey, in the hood where I'm from. If somebody calls you lil mama it means you are small, cute, and sexy. Which she is. She just can't dance like a grown woman yet. It takes practice. Therefore I said, lil mama ( small woman), thinks she looks grown.
Now if you need anymore Ebonics lessons, holla!
Now, my post stands.
Are you done attacking the blacktina yet? It's disgusting the way you just jumped on me without even knowing what the heck you were talking about. Where the heck have you been that you don't know what lil mama means? There's a rapper named lil mama ,dear, and she picked her name herself. It's not a put down. She thought she looked grown was a put down. Of her dancing.
Here a link so you can stop thinking you are being tricked.http://www.soslang.com/term/lil-mama
I accept your apology. Oh here's the rapper.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lil_Mama

[Gravitycollapse]

79. Do you walk up to complete strangers and call them little mama?

Don't answer that. I already know the answer.

[bravenak]

82. That what I thought.

I already told you, you don't know jack.
Do you have to be so Nasty and offensive? Don't answer that, I already know.
I'm black. I call girls lil mama if they're little and cute.
Did you even read the links? Offended by my ghetto vernacular? Too bad sugar. Lil mama is a compliment. I'm sure she wouldn't mind me calling her that.
Gravity, you need to collapse yourself into bed if you're going to be that cranky, I give as good as I get. You might want to read up on some slang before you pop off at the mouth, tripping on folks you don't know, about things you don't know about. Ignorance can fuel the flames of anger.
Like I said before. Lil. Mama. Thought. She. Looked. Grown.
You're making me laugh

[arikara]

85. You're making me laugh too

[bravenak]

86. At me or with me?

Either way its funny.

[arikara]

88. With you

You're a hoot.

[bravenak]

89. Why thank you.

I try so hard. I don't think Grav enjoys my levity.
I see you're in Canada, hi from Alaska!
We must have a similar sense of humor being that we live in the most awesome places.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

117. I just want to say BRAVO and WELL DONE. and hot damn !!!

that was some fun reading right there what you just told that man off big time and I loved every minute of it.

[bravenak]

120. Glad to make your morning.

It was fun for me too. I think I sent 'em to bed. With no supper.

[Sissyk]

193. I think you rock, bravenak!

Glad you didn't back down from one asshole on the internet!!

[bravenak]

196. Thank you Sissyk.

I just couldn't back down. It was too strange and interesting. I've never heard lil mama used as a slur. And to be jumped on like that... My favorite things in the world are snark and insulting meanies without cussing. Especially when they're bossy. I missed an episode of Dexter to do it, but it was worth it.

[Sissyk]

200. lol at Dexter!

I will be 50 next week and have friends call me lil mama, lil girl, hey woman, etc. etc. etc. because I'm built small. Some of my kids friends have even called me lil mama, friendma (lol), and many other things. It's what you grow up with and what you are around all the time.

[arikara]

202. For sure, it must be a northern thing

I grew up in northern BC but have only been as far north as the Yukon border and Hyder Alaska. I'd love to go right into Alaska some day.

[bravenak]

207. I love the north so much I must be a Stark.

Come to Alaska, we'll never let you leave. I've brought up a few family members for visits and such. They usually move here once they've been here for a while. Anchorage is the best. I want to go to Canada one day, maybe Brittish Columbia, i love the name. It sounds exotic and chill at the same time. I like chill.

[arikara]

277. I think I miss the night sky more than anything

We just don't get the stars and northern lights like that here.
I miss the mountains and the trees too. And even the snow. And the river was a real river, not these silly little creeks they call rivers around here.

Oh hell, I'm homesick. I can see why you stay.

[iemitsu]

226. I am laughing with you.

What an absurd attack. But you are masterful in your ability to "give as good as you get". You run circles around Lil Cyrus Defender, and her attempts to label your observations "gross" while defending the gross performance of Cyrus.
What I saw was an adult trying to look cute, like Honey Boo Boo or Jon Benet Ramsey pretending to be grown-up. Except it was not cute, mainly because simulated masturbation on stage is not family entertainment and Cyrus is not a cute little girl.
I'm still confused about her intended message. And that's the main problem I have with the performance. When one is on stage they are there to communicate something to the audience. Unclear, ambiguous, or confusing communication is ineffective and is not what one hopes for in a performance.

[bravenak]

230. I didn't like the performance, I like a good dance number like back when Janet Jackson and TLC

were doing their thing. Or Beyonce.
The foam finger crotch thing was slightly disturbing, as was the tongue licking weirdness. It was a hot mess. And she thought she was doing such a great job!!!! Poor mamacita. So deliriously happy!
Ignorance is bliss. She will never know how bad she did.
The big teddy bear? They teddy bear teddy? Tongue sticking out. I did not get it. Am I old already?
I guess 32 is old. I'll never be cool again. Teddy bear sex play must be in style right now. Gross.
I forgot she/he called me gross. I'm laughing again. I thought it was a joke at first.

[iemitsu]

244. I hate to inform you that I am way older than you, so not

only are you too old to be cool but your experience and wisdom support the notions of ancient folk.
Identifying "Lil mama" as gross or offensive is silly and makes me laugh. Its so "church lady" for someone defending Cyrus' awkward attempt at twerking.
Somewhere on this thread, Cyrus' act was described as looking "like 12 year old girls at a slumber party". That is where this act would have been appropriate or funny (and where I would never witness it), in any other venue the act is an embarrassment.
Teddy bears? Does that mean the act was furry friendly?

[bravenak]

252. I've turned into my mother.

I'll know next time though. Dry humping your foam finger while dressed in a teddy bear teddy is art and must not be mocked. Saying lil mama is gross. The act was very furry friendly, as she exited from a large, furry teddy bear and made her way to the twerk it location. I have never seen anything like it. Poor child.
I hope she never does It again. The tongue disturbed me badly. I was quite overset. I may go into a decline. And she quite upset the young mans mother, the one she was rubbing her booty on. Robin Thicke. The wife is fine with it. That poor young mans mother can't shut up about how much she hated it. She is still quite disturbed. Or confused. I think confused.
She says she can never unsee it. I feel her pain.

[DeschutesRiver]

224. :) agree. Lil mama isn't put down. And around here, yeah, i've heard mamcita used to strangers

In other places, i've heard sis, sugar and hun or honey. This is pretty common and i can't figure out why this poster has been so determined to stay unimformed and wrong. To each their own.

There is enough real crap being dished out in this world for people to raise a flag and attack terms of endearment common to various places, ages, etc.

I smiled at your responses. You were right and direct about it to that poster. Thanks for educating him/her. Maybe something was learned

[bravenak]

227. Thank you.

I genuinely tried to understand what was wrong with it. But I think somebody was looking for a problem that was nonexistent. Like the GOP and voter ID. Except that one was on a mission to end my nonexistent sexism. I enjoyed putting her/him to bed last night. She/h was tired.
If she read the links I provided she learned what lil mama means and that the real Lil Mama is beautiful and twerkalicious. I don't think Miley would mind me likening her to that young lady. She'd be doing a music video with her the next week and make more money.

[uponit7771]

77. ummm no, mamas...little mama...is a cultural nick name for little girls. Take a chill pill

[Gravitycollapse]

78. And she's not a little girl. That is my point. She's 20 years old.

[treestar]

104. Now that's funny

To those of us over a certain age, 20 is a little girl.

[msanthrope]

127. I have bras and handbags older then Miley Cyrus. That's a damn fact. nt

[pipi_k]

163. There's stuff

in my fridge and medicine cabinets older than she is.

[one_voice]

122. It's not a put down...

it's not disgusting, it's very common in the black community.

We use it all the time. Lil mama and mama, often times baby girl is used. It's certainly not a put down.

And yes, we greet each other with hey mama...

You're wrong on this...

[VanillaRhapsody]

72. as a 20 yr old....I had that body myself. It was most certainly not that of a grown woman yet.

some are late bloomers as was I...she could also be a little immature for her age as well. She has lived as a child star and is thus not in a normal environment with which to grow up in. I am not saying the girl is totally without talent....she may grow up and later be embarrassed by this spectacle she made of herself....but go on to have a great career in the entertainment business....the key to that is if she can mature...

the point of the twerk btw is to shake a shapely woman's rear end....she doesn't have that yet...regardless of her age. Though like most women...she WILL. It's why you aren't likely to see this move done by (straight anyways )men.

[Gravitycollapse]

75. The issue of whether or not that was a body of a 20 year old is not up for debate...

Just as many physical constants are not up for debate by the fact that they are easily observed to be true.

She is 20 years old. Therefore, her body is that of a 20 year old. Do you walk up to 40 year old women who are petite and say "Oh you're just a late bloomer?" Probably not.

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. Oh baloney....no but they still wouldnt have the correct body for a Twerk....You just dont seem to

get THAT was the point of the discussion. You taking out parts of it out of context does not work here buddy! By the way....I was formerly anorexic and lived underweight into my 40's. I would have looked just as foolish twerking...

I am a straight woman...but even I have seen women perform this particular dance style correctly and (with the proper body parts) and found it interesting and entertaining to watch....very similar to dance styles in Brazil....its the particular ample body part that makes them entertaining to watch. She was even on stage with women who were shall we say extremely well endowed with the appropriate equipment for a proper twerk....making it even more obvious and her seem oddly placed on that stage among them.

This particular dance style for Miley....lets just say was not her forte.....

[quakerboy]

199. Not her forte

Is a far cry from the accusations of "pornographic" and "child porn" that have been showing up in threads on this topic.

So.. If someone dances in a style they are not suited to bodywise, does that make them disgusting?

For instance, if I as a middle age, not terribly fit male were to take up ballet, would that make me disgusting?

But moving on, the whole thing seems to rest on the outrage of a few that she would do this dance. But if a different person, same age, same costume, had done the dance, someone they found appropriately endowed and enjoyed the sight of a bit more(or maybe a bit less, a very few of the comments on the matter seem to me to be in the "doth protest too much" category) this would have gone by without comment, completely unnoticed.

Which to me indicates its something other than the dance itself causing this outrage. Is it completely media ginned up? Maybe. It would be interesting to have a parallel world where the media said nothing about the thing, to see if any of this would show up without that publicity. But I bet it sells records for everyone involved, it gets the names on lips, and i bet more people watch the VMA's next year now.

That said, its interesting that i haven't seen a single thread on DU about "same love" winning an award.

[iemitsu]

229. IMO, its the juxtaposition of twerking and Teddy Bears,

and Cyrus' childlike physique that made the performance controversial.
As evidenced by the discussion here, that combination made the show difficult to interpret and therefore a flop.

[quakerboy]

274. I finally broke down and watched it

and read the various media commentaries. I find three things noteworthy.

1) Thicke's mothers comment. "I was not expecting her to be putting her butt that close to my son," Loring said. "The problem is now I can never unsee it."
I'm guessing that she hasn't watched her Sons music video, or she would kinda have to choke on those words a bit.

2) Really, I dont think its a controversy without a carefully crafted media PR storm. But insofar as people are reacting to the imagery, I suspect the reactions really have less to do with teddy bears or a skinny white girl trying to twerk as they are to do with a kinda primal reaction to the cognitive dissonance of Disney princess Cyrus taking a very aggressive, I would even say masculine stance through many parts of the performance.

3) Macklemore won an award. An award for "same love". That's something to take note of, and to not let the ginned up, commercially packaged controversy distract us from.

[VanillaRhapsody]

245. No but I definitely wouldnt want to see YOU twerk either!

[one_voice]

121. I thought/think..

lil mama was/is ok. We use lil mama and mama all the time, when talking to/about each other. Usually lil mama is for those with no kids, like my daughter who is 27. Though, sometimes she gets a mama.

We're having a surprise party for my brother this weekend and she got an email from a friend that started; Hey mama...

I didn't think there was anything wrong with it. Especially given who you were talking about, (Miley) I'd bet money she uses it all the time, that and baby girl.

[bravenak]

130. Yup. Like when I call my BFF I say, hey ma!

Nothing wrong with it. She just looked so small compared to the ladies she was dancing with.
I was skinny as a mug when I was 20, I was only 105 pounds and almost 5'2". Everybody called me that.
And yeah, I'm pretty sure Miley knows her slang terminology perfectly well and would not mind. She might like it. Maybe she's gross like me.

[dawg]

178. Whoaa!! Little Mama!

[bravenak]

208. Yo!

Love Johnny Bravo.

[Gravitycollapse]

51. I have to intervene here. She has the body of a 20 year old because that's how old she is...

If we are going to start categorizing body types by age, you will find yourself running into a very serious set of contradictions.

She is 20. Her body is her own. Therefore, the body you saw on television is that of a 20 year old. Just because it isn't the standard type of body one would expect for ____ demographic does not make it the body of a 14 year old.

So she's petite. So are a lot of other women who are well into their adult years.

[VanillaRhapsody]

73. I had that body....I think I know of whence I speak...

See the definition above for the reason for the problem with the twerk! If she doesn't have that body well into her adult years she will look just as odd doing the twerk....see explanation above.

[Shivering Jemmy]

115. Give it a rest

You are getting owned left and right. Have some self respect and quit posting for a while. You're staggering around the ring right now.

[snooper2]

160. I think your intervention failed

[bravenak]

231. L.O.L.

You win. Best comment.

[TorchTheWitch]

46. the backup dancers

they were all black and all overweight. One in particular - the heaviest one - did no dancing but walked around doing what appeared to be passing out things (no idea what) to the people in the audience. At one point, Cyrus stuck her face inches from the woman's butt and repeatedly smacked it with both hands. The point being was to laugh at the "fat black chicks" making fools of themselves (to make Cyrus look thinner, more attractive and a better dancer/performer - didn't work at all though. There was also three attractive and fit white women that did nothing more than walk around holding up some kind of signs - that was the eye-candy bit.

[markiv]

183. it's racism, because

everything is racism

[Skip Intro]

23. Racism? Well, it was only a matter of time.

[wercal]

195. I haven't seen Godwin's Principle invoked.....yet!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

218. That's exactly what Hitler would have said.

[CreekDog]

283. you mock the accusation of racism, but just days ago, you claimed that two killings were racist

Skip Intro (18,379 posts)
37. If the races were reversed, DU would be barely moving.

But yeah, it probably was racially motivated. The killing of the AU baseball player also. There is circumstantial proof of the latter.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3517226

IT IS racist to only see racism against white people and mock accusations of racism against black people.

It really is.

[ohheckyeah]

25. that was supposed to be sexy?

She looked ridiculous, like a little girl trying to be sexy, and she was SO not sexy.

Who was the guy in the referee suit? LOL

[Summer Hathaway]

26. Congratulations!

I have been wondering since Mylie's performance, and the posts on DU about it, how long it would take for someone to connect some non-existent dots, s-t-r-e-t-c-h the imagination of the reader, and come up with a "hook" that would turn this baby around.

Well, you have done it, my friend!

The "slut shaming" tack was attention-getting, but a bit risky. (Not to worry, you pulled it off!)

The "sexism" angle was, of course, a natural segue from there. But the "racism" tie-in was GENIUS - cheekily profferred as having some semblance to substance, and totally laugh-worthy in its irrelevance.

Slut Shaming, Sexism & Racism - oh, my!!!

Quite frankly, I see this OP as a musical - maybe you can get Mylie to star?

[Rex]

27. What she is doing is not even remotely original.

I saw 'the video' BFD...people can get worked up over some stupid shit imo. Oh and she has TATTOOS!

Good for her she broke away from a cult like Disney.

[coldmountain]

38. On the good side for Miley #3 and #6 on iTunes and broke all time 24hr Vevo record! Bangerz!

http://mashable.com/2013/06/25/miley-cyrus-we-cant-stop-vevo-record/

She has the potential to be the most successful female singer ever because she'll just keep changing with her audience and be a big country star some day but I'm sorry for all the hate she gets, it's undeserved and says more about our society than about Miley.

[Rex]

228. Well she does not fit the narrative of cult Disney anymore.

I think Madonna has done everything Miley is doing now...10 times over in the 90s. And look how well that turned out for her (very well....she is a billionaire now).

Don't cry for her Argentina! She is mega famous and rich beyond most peoples fantasy. All Miley has to do is keep being herself imo.

[opiate69]

35. The funny thing is, the vast majority of shaming I've seen (at least anecdotally)

Has been from women... and, there seems to be a huge age/generational component to it as well... for my part, meh.. Anybody who expects anything approaching art or value from any of these pop stars gets what they pay for.... insipid, superficial, soul-less pap, usually designed and focus-group tested for maximum shock value...

[olddots]

36. who is Miley Cyrus ?

[enigmatic]

40. I'd rather listen to Neko Case 1000 times out of 1000

Sorry.

[enigmatic]

42. Or Kelly Hogan

[coldmountain]

54. I saw Kelly Hogan many times in Little Five points, she is great and underappreciated

Neko Case new song "Man" is truly a wonder.There's plenty of artists better than Miley is right now despite her incredible commercial success but that doesn't change Ms Cyrus being slut shamed.

Here's my choice for best song ever written and played by a teenager

[MineralMan]

150. Wonderful. Some of the nicest frailing I've heard in years.

My favorite banjo style, and she does it so cleanly and subtly. The song's good too, reflecting old time laments from the hills.

Love it. I'd never heard of her before. Thank you for posting.

[coldmountain]

159. Funny how Nashville gives Taylor Swift all this attention and Sara Jarosz none

I heard Sara and many others first on Prairie Home Companion. Old Garrison and NPR has introduced me to more great young performers than all the mainstream county stations put together. Check out Sara Watkins and Run Boy Run.

Sara has a bunch of songs on You Tube and you can buy her albums on iTunes.

That big foam had Miley had, she was using it to give Nashville and Disney the finger which they richly deserve

[MineralMan]

161. While talent generates respect from music lovers,

it often doesn't result in financial success. Sara's a lovely person who makes excellent music. I wish her the very best.

[Warren DeMontague]

49. Neko Case has an awesome voice.

I still think Natalie Merchant's is even more awesomer, tho.

[wild bird]

56. Neko Case is an awesome singer and great talent to boot.

I can listen to her all day with no problem.

[Warren DeMontague]

61. Indeed, that last solo album was really good.

Dig it alot.

[enigmatic]

57. I met Natalie a few times in her 10,000 Maniacs days

Mostly around the "Secrets Of The I Ching" record. She's a sweetheart and alot more funnier than you would expect.

[Warren DeMontague]

62. Yeah, I've been a fan for a long time, too.

I guess 10,000 Maniacs opened for the Dead at least once, but sadly I was not at those shows.

[erpowers]

170. Definitely A Better Singer Than Cyrus

She is a much better singer than Miley Cyrus.

[bravenak]

41. My problem is that she can't dance like she thinks she can.

And the outfit. When you twerkalicious it, you gotta be able to isolate your muscle groups and pop it.
I wish I could get her to pay me to show her how.
That's pretty much it.

[Warren DeMontague]

45. It wasn't "The Mentalist", that's for sure! Now that's some wholesome television.

I had to ask my Grandson to find MTV for me, so I would know what I was outraged over.

[msanthrope]

134. Do you watch NCIS with that nice Mark Harmon boy? My mother does! nt

[Warren DeMontague]

237. I'll have you know, I used to change Mark Harmon's diapers!

it was right around the time of "Summer School"

[LittleBlue]

59. Miley is selling a record

and part of that is selling herself. I'm certain she and her agents were well aware of the firestorm it would create.

The outcome was intended. She's laughing all the way to the bank.

[coldmountain]

64. "Is that good for everybody?"

[Demo_Chris]

65. No one, including from places like 4chan, are mocking her for being a "slut"...

They are mocking her because she is basically a talentless hack and it was a poorly done and desperate cry for attention. Miley is famous for playing a fake pop star to adoring pre-teen girls. She's still doing it, except she has now forgotten that the key word all along was "fake".

[coldmountain]

68. She is being call a slut, skank, body issues,etc all over the internet while a man wouldn't be

And of course n........lover

[Harmony Blue]

223. She is trying to hard to be a fully matured adult

and it doesn't come off as sincere or authentic. She has a lot of growing up to do still.

[appleannie1]

69. Women have fought to be recognized as more than sex toys for hundreds of years. She erased all that

hard work, all the sweat and tears and even deaths to achieve some of the dignity they have finally earned. That is not racist nor is it sexism.

[Gravitycollapse]

70. A single performer erased hundreds of years of work? I find that hard to believe.

The bottom line is her performance isn't even atypical in the music industry. What she did had little or no negative or positive effect.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

81. Don't you know sex is dirty? Women are supposed to consider it to be for children ONLY.

[pipi_k]

165. You're right...Sex is

not dirty.

It's natural.

So is urination and defecation.


Not sure, however, if they're something most people want to see on stage or TV.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

211. You sure know how to turn someone on.

[pipi_k]

235. Oh yeah, baby!

Nothing like the sight of a 60 year old grandma taking a wee in public to get those erotic juices flowing in all the men...

[Spitfire of ATJ]

239. Cher could do it.

[pipi_k]

279. No doubt!

She could probably even twerk her pee out into the audience, further inflaming the lustful thoughts....

[Spitfire of ATJ]

281. I've known women that could write their name in the snow.

[spin]

84. The bottom line is Miley is doing her best to become something she isn't ...

I really don't know if she has any real singing or dancing talent as I am 67 years old and have only seen her on Hannah Montana because my grandson had a crush on her and we watched a few programs together. She impressed me as a fair actress for her age at that time.

I watched the video because every news program on the 24/7 cable news channels made a big deal about it. I wasn't overly impressed and my personal view is that she was not sexy in the least. The "twerking" is suggestive but appeared contrived to me. I didn't see how displaying her tongue was sexy and seemed somewhat gross to me. I've seen many strippers who danced better than she did and maybe she should take some lessons from one. Her singing didn't impress me but perhaps if she sang a different song I would change my view.

She did get an enormous amount of publicity and perhaps eventually she will be able to be as sexy as Madonna or approach Lady Ga Ga who can sing and dance although I consider her somewhat weird.

But then I am 67 years old and somewhat out of touch. I'm long past my peak but I think I can still spot a truly sexy lady when I see one. To me she seems to be doing her best to ACT like one.

On a postitve note I learned a new word.

[David__77]

95. You're absolutely correct.

You've summed it all up well.

[arikara]

87. What I saw

is the start of a public meltdown of yet another Disney kid. There was no "art" in that sad performance.

There's something really creepy about what happens with those poor kids.

[spin]

90. I totally agree. (n/t)

[DrDan]

91. ". . . about art . . . " - best laugh I have had this month

[davidn3600]

92. Problem for Miley is she's entered a genre that isn't very well respected for one thing

This genre is heavily criticized by many music-lovers (especially older folks but young as well) as being "cookie-cutter." In other words the claim is that the music industry can put any attractive person in these roles and turn them into a star. That most of their appeal is based on their sexual prowess and off-stage antics and not any real talent.

Miley's performance was too "in your face." It's not a poke at your shoulder to get your attention, it's a punch in the nose and looks a bit desperate. Miley needs to back it up otherwise the shock will get old quick.

She's trying very, very hard to shed the "Disney girl" label and appeal to a different audience. The issue is that she's trying to grow faster than her audience. Most of her fan base is still that Disney crowd. Do you see many adults walking around listening to Miley Cyrus? No. But kids still do. What she's trying to do right now is jump 10-20 years and grab a different generation. It's not going to work with this genre.

[Locrian]

156. you're right

She needs to back this up as what *she* wants to do.

To me, it looks like another 'star' being manipulated to get more $$$. It's what they did with her when she was young, and what the $$ behind her are doing now.

If she thinks shes trying to break the 'stereotype' of the disney crowd, she's missing the issue.

If she doesn't find her OWN direction (and I seriously wonder if she HAS one) then the real issue will be that she can't get away from the stereotype: "the music industry can put any attractive person in these roles and turn them into a star"

[steve2470]

94. I didn't see racism whatsoever

I saw a young woman doing her best to destroy her old image, and she succeeded completely. Sexism ? I think a woman has every right to do whatever she wishes to do on stage in public. That goes for Robin Thicke as well.

Slut-shaming ? See my statement above.

I laughed a lot at her performance, but that doesn't harm her in the least. I wish her many good fortunes in the future, and I hope she doesn't get bad advice from her advisors/handlers/record company people. I don't want her to crash and burn like Britney Spears did, that was very painful to watch.

Her performance definitely put me in touch with my age lol..... I'm trying to stay open-minded as I get older.

[redgreenandblue]

96. Turning oneself into an object does not equal sexual self-determination.

[Niceguy1]

97. what she did is hardly new or unheard of...

Slut shaming pure and simple.... undecided on the racism part but you are probably right.

[liberal N proud]

101. Who's idea was it for her to act like that on stage?

[BlueStreak]

253. It was (evidently) the collective sexism of all males since the beginning of time.

It certainly wasn't the girl's fault, that much is clear.

[magical thyme]

102. the stuffed animals were wierd

The rest of it was no different than what's been done for decades, first by men, later by women.

I watched a little due to all the news because I thought maybe she'd done something really mind-blowing. Meh.

The singing was pretty poor, the song was awful, bump and grind was just another bump and girnd.Aside from the bad song and worse singing, what stood out to me were the facial expressions, which were stupid. Put your tongue away, don't you know it might get stuck in that position and then where will you be?

She got what she wanted. Meh. I'll take other posters word for her being a good country singer. I didn't hear any decent singing on the video.

[Shankapotomus]

103. Man, Woman, Transgendered

Old Rock Band, New Rap Artist, Whatever.

Anyone who uses sex to sell stuff, from music to beer to just themselves, is pandering to one of humanity's lowest and mindless instincts.

And no, I have never purchased a Rolling Stones or Kiss album.

[The Straight Story]

105. She is shamed because her performance sucked, her outfit was ugly

And she is a talentless hack.

And One Direction sucks too.

People can have opinions without those opinions being sexist. Some people can pull it off better than others. She is good at some things, not others - and I am not going to treat her different because she is a woman.

Seen plenty of women doing wild things like that in videos and shows before, she just sucked at it.

[Myrina]

138. ^^ This, x 100 ^^

Indeed.

[DanTex]

106. Or maybe she was just awful.

If you're going to be a big MTV star, and you put on a horrible performance like that, you're going to get criticized. I don't think this has much to do with slut-shaming. It has more to do with a ridiculous spectacle of poor dancing, awkward faces, and a former cute little girl trying to prove that she's all grown up and sexy now, and failing.

A lot of young female pop stars have highly sexualized acts (e.g. Lady Gaga), but the difference is they are good at it.

[lynne]

107. Sexism? Racism? Good grief, how about it was just plain lousy -

- and ugly, bordering upon scary. Your sexism accusation is BS as other women artist have danced in less and it's worked because they were good at it. Not sure where you came up with racism.

Sometimes a thing is just BAD and it doesn't have anything to do with any "ism". This was one of those times.

[99Forever]

111. Way to devalue...

... the terms "slut shaming and racism" when they really do happen.

The over-privileged girl acted the fool, period.

[deutsey]

136. Oh, so you're fool shaming, then, are you?

[Turborama]

113. I wish they'd chose Beth Ditto to do a performance at the VMA

I loves me some Beth...

[Dorian Gray]

114. I think she's

trying too hard to prove she's not a little girl anymore. Nothing wrong with it. It doesn't impress me or anger me.

[Sunlei]

119. I thought it was an awesome show, g rated for TV. I wish she would do a show with Prince!

&feature=player_detailpage

[spanone]

125. she's a modestly talented child with rehab in her near future

[NCTraveler]

126. She looked like a talentless jackass.

Call it what you want. Seems I don't care about those she surrounds herself with or her gender as much as you do. If this performance was your cup of tea, game on. To me it was crap.

[libodem]

216. Jack-ass

Was the point.

[Peacetrain]

131. Oh for the love of Mike.. this is exactly what she was shooting for

She has the same agent or adviser or what ever you call them that Brittany Spears had when she spent a year making a complete ass out of herself.

It is for the money.

All of them.. it is about getting a buck out of your pocket.

The crazy the more devoted the fan, the more they will spend.

I saw a clip on the internet, and there was nothing sexy about it even... It is a stunt to get money.

If you want to call it art.. go for it.. but hang on to your wallet

[pipi_k]

173. this...yes...!

I didn't see her little act until the next day, but the whole Pop Music scene these days seems to be all about pushing the envelope to see how little talent people will actually pay to see/hear.

It brings to mind a book I read a few months ago called, "The Bialy Pimps" where a bunch of workers in a bagel/bialy shop get real tired of the day to day grind and decide to start abusing the customers just to see what would happen.

The employees kept escalating the insanity, but there seemed to be nothing so abusive or nasty that would actually drive customers away. They LOVED it.

Fiction, but, perhaps with a grain of truth...

So, what with the shitty quality of Pop Music these days in general, and people like Miley Cyrus embarrassing themselves in public and laughing all the way to the bank, maybe the real assholes are the American public.

[stevenleser]

132. I agree and I think the reaction was totally overblown. The act wasn't particularly good...

...but there is a lot more risque' behavior in your average music video and who watches those? Teens. Do parents freak out all the time?
No.

60 years ago 30 somethings and above had the same reaction to Elvis, 20 years ago 30 somethings and above had the same reaction to Madonna.

My reaction?

[Niceguy1]

146. exactly

And if it wasn't miley cyrus? Nobody would have cared.

[MineralMan]

141. There's just nothing about Miley Cyrus that is worthy of discussion.

She's a minor entertainer. That is it. This is a political forum. Miley Cyrus should be nothing more than a footnote here, frankly.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

144. Sometimes a twerkfest is just a twerkfest.

I didn't find it in the least bit scandalous.

It was just incredibly awkward and embarrassing.

And for people who claim that it was just a case of female empowerment and any criticism or ridicule of it is "slut shaming"--get real. We're not talking about Hillary Clinton running for Senator of New York here. We're talking about a nominally talented singer who only got famous thanks to nepotism humping on stage and playing with a foam finger while lip-synching a song I'm sure she didn't write herself.

[Yavin4]

145. My favorite is when Mike Brzezinski went off on Miley

Pot meet kettle.

[dionysus]

268. yeah, that pic and miley's making a fool of herself twerking poorly are exactly the same....

[Yavin4]

271. Miley is an entertainer trying to re-brand herself

A news host showing off her legs in a provocative pose is related to the news in what way again?

[cbdo2007]

147. She acts like a 12 year old at a slumber party....that was the problem for me

There have been plenty of extremely risque' acts at the VMA's over the years but in other cases, at least the people act like wild college kids or have some kind of class or maturity to the performance....Miley just acted like she was 12 years old, ramming that foam finger through her crotch and stuff, and her body even looks like a 12 year old, like she has NO sex appeal, so it was just awkward and weird.

[dawg]

168. I mostly agree with you.

Her act was creepy, not sexy. It had the feel of a 14 year old girl trying to be "hot". When Madonna or Lady Gaga or Prince or even Mick Jagger went down this road, they at least delivered the goods.

I've seen some people comparing Miley's performance to Michael Jackson grabbing his crotch. Well, we all thought that was ridiculous too. (We just put up with it because the music was so good)

My only point of gripe with you is criticism of Miley's body. She has a slender, grown woman's body, and she looks good.

[NM_Birder]

151. Racist ? No. A hootchie pole dancing dry humper ? Yes.

Her tongue hanging out her mouth while she dry humped and finger banged herself is the Miley we all have been waiting for ! She has come of age and is allowed to show off her skills at being a tramp. I applaud her !

Rolling Stone fan from birth, but the ideal show would be Miley twittering around solo to "Sympathy for the Devil". Her music......meh, that's why the sexual distraction, ....works for me.

[Evergreen Emerald]

153. Excellent assessment

I agree with you. And I was sickened when Mika kept calling her "disgusting."

Young girls grow up in our society learning the lessons well of what is a valuable woman...and when she acts out her lessons, she is stoned by the very society that reinforced the objectification.

[Adrahil]

154. Nonsense. Such hyper-sexualized behavior reinforces the view of young women as sexual objects...

...not sexual subjects.

Her behavior is a an extreme disservice to women everywhere.

[Warren DeMontague]

265. It will go down on her permanent record

to be sure.

[one_voice]

157. Slut shaming?

Using that here here cheapens it. We don't need to rush out and defend every woman that is criticized by screaming sexism, slut shaming, etc.

She knew exactly what she was doing. She wanted this reaction. You don't grind, air hump, stick your face in someone ass then spank it, simulate 'fingering' yourself, all while having your tongue hanging out and not expect people (some) to be shocked.

She wanted to be in the news cycle the next day, she did better she's still being talked about. Her song is till at the top of the charts and she's sitting at home not giving a shit.

I don't think she should be called those horrible names but there is not slut shaming.

As for the men you listed, if there was a 24hr news cycle and an internet, you would have heard about Elvis, Mick, and certainly KISS' satanic make-up.

Even if Mick, Elvis ect didn't do what they did, if Miley wanted to prance around with teddy bears that's her right and she really doesn't have to defend or justify it to anyone. Turn the channel if you don't like it.

[Tom Ripley]

162. It was, and is, just well-hyped pablum

and nothing more

[Lucinda]

167. I liked her version of Lilac Wine too, from the same session.

I'm not crazy about the direction she's taking right now. She CAN sing. Her voice is wonderfully different and IMO it's getting lost in what she's doing lately, but she's made a choice to go down this road, and the VMA performance guaranteed a lot of attention will be focused on the cd she is about to release. Smart move in many ways...

[hamsterjill]

169. She is still being paid to be an entertainer.

And it is my decision whether I like her performance or not. It is also my right to comment on her routine in any way that I like. Thus far, I have not used the word "slut" or anything like that. But we all know the intent of the performance WAS to get people talking. It was shock value at its best.

What I, myself, actually see is a child entertainer who probably has some very real emotional and perhaps self-worth issues that might need to be addressed so that she can lead a more calm, productive and happy life. If she has real musical talent as you suggest (I've never really listened to her), then I would hope to see that talent without all of the "presentation".

[Vashta Nerada]

175. I can see why it's sexist, but racist?

Bit of a stretch.

[Dreamer Tatum]

176. The key to getting a lot of clicks on DU is to cry racism in the title

even if racism hasn't a damn thing to do with anything.

[markiv]

181. I honestly have no idea why a woman that age and that wealthy

would go such a degrading route

she's in a position where she doesnt have to be anything to anyone or prove anything to anyone

the smartest thing she could do, we be to run out her contracts and take a few years off to take stock of her situation

Steve Martin probably is one of the better examples of an entertainer, who made corrective moves and stayed fresh and dignified with his changes in age

he started out with 'rock star' fame, but parlayed it into a dignified lifetime relevance

[hughee99]

182. "Hey, a woman did something people are considering sexy and provocative. What did you think?"

Answer 1: "I loved it"
Response: "Why do you support the objectification of women?"

Answer 2: "I hated it"
Response: "MEN do this sort of thing all the time and no one says anything. Why are you slut-shaming this poor girl?"

[AnnetteJacobs]

186. "Wardrobe malfunction," my ass!

Oh, wait...

[Iggo]

188. It's slut shaming, that's for sure.

[JCMach1]

189. Someone asked her to emerge the belly of pedobear and then dance with his minions... not a good

career move for anyone...

[Safetykitten]

192. I would argue that she gets a pass because if an African American did what she did?

WHOLE different reaction and story.

[anneboleyn]

220. Ding ding ding. Excellent point.

[NM_Birder]

233. I would MUCH rather........

See Beyoncé's tongue hanging out her mouth while she finger banged herself and dry humped everything in sight, instead of Miley. I don't get the "artistry" of hanging your tongue out in a permanent porn pucker, but that's her style and Miley's not to hard on the eyes, just the ears.

I still don't get the racial aspect of this. She wants to be portrayed as a pole dancing hoochie mama, so be it.

I've seen a few posts about the "racism" regarding this, I don't get it, what is it ?

[coldmountain]

275. Miley has been performing with black rap stars and has been trashed on the internet for it

[NM_Birder]

240. Ahhh I may have gotten it, is the racism regarding Miley's dry humpapooloza becasue of the

contrast regarding Janet Jackson's nipple outrage ?

Just to be clear, I had no problem with her nipple any more than Miley's dry hump extravaganza. That's what passes for talent these days, not actual talent, just expose yourself as a pole dancing hootchie, fain a little outrage over "artistic value", show a nipple, maybe a little onstage masturbation, and then collect the checks.

Can't wait for the next reality show "So you think you can skank"

[wercal]

194. How to keep yourself in the public eye:

Step 1 - Do something on TV that pushes the boundaries of sexuality that can be shown on network tv.

Step 2 - Wait for somebody to predictably complain.

Step 3 - Do not respond.

Step 4 - Let others respond, and let the discussion/arguments commence.

Miley seems to be a student of Madonna...and its working for her. I didn't watch the awards, and the only thing I know about them is the Miley incident, and Taylor Swift predictably being snide when her ex-boyfriend got an award - that's her own shtick.

Why are we surprised about this or complaining about this. Its the 'MTV' music awards...the same outfit that brought us nipplegate during the super bowl half time show. I'm quite sure that every MTV music award show will feature somebody making a fool of themselves...not a very risky prediction.

I have seen the video of Miley and Alan Thicke's kid...I think its nonsensical trash. I didn't even find it sexual...just garbage. It doesn't make me a racist, and I don't have some deep seeded need to have Miley only play the proper country star...I just don't enjoy garbage television.

But Miley, you got me. I did watch the video. Or more correctly, MTV, you got me - I waited through an ad just to watch the clip.

[cliffordu]

197. Jesus. I thought her performance sucked

Because she can't dance for shit and her management has her singing songs SO wrong for her it's painful to watch. I saw a video of her with an acoustic country band outside singing 'joleine' sans Dolly and was knocked out by it. She could rule country music if she wanted to. Instead she gave us that shit we saw the other night.

Funny that lady gaga wore fewer clothes and no one is slut shaming her. Your posit is bogus

[nadinbrzezinski]

201. We watched the vid last night on the tv machine

The reaction in this house was...faux outrage, fully.

[David Krout]

204. the kinds of things that can be spun into being racist is a large number these days nt

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

209. Let's be clear on our definitions

Slut Shaming is the practice of using false allegations of inappropriate behavior to blame women for actions taken AGAINST them. Rush Limbaugh calling Sandra Fluke a slut for demanding birth control, those who imply that rape victims "had it coming" because of their clothing or their behavior. There is nothing false about the allegations of Cyrus' behavior -- the video is all over the internet. And one would have to be extremely obtuse to not understand that her display was not at least a little inappropriate.

Personally, I think she's a talented kid who's getting some insanely bad career advice.

[LadyHawkAZ]

234. um,...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut-shaming
Slut shaming (also hyphenated, as slut-shaming) is a label for social control of sexuality by exposing a woman to shame for engaging in – or being perceived to engage in – unlawful, abnormal or unethical sexual behavior. Some behaviors and events which may expose women to "slut-shaming" include dressing immodestly or provocatively, requesting birth control, having premarital or casual sex, or even being raped or sexually assaulted.

http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/what-is-slut-shaming/
FAQ: What is “slut-shaming”?
Short answer: Slut-shaming, also known as slut-bashing, is the idea of shaming and/or attacking a woman or a girl for being sexual, having one or more sexual partners, acknowledging sexual feelings, and/or acting on sexual feelings. Furthermore, it’s “about the implication that if a woman has sex that traditional society disapproves of, she should feel guilty and inferior” (Alon Levy, Slut Shaming). It is damaging not only to the girls and women targeted, but to women in general an society as a whole. It should be noted that slut-shaming can occur even if the term “slut” itself is not used.

It was awfully inappropriate for a public stage though, wasn't it? I mean, what kind of person does that and expects to get away without public outrage?? Modern, no-talent kids, that's who.
http://www.digitalspy.com/celebrity/i439413-8/stars-grabbing-their-crotch-gallery-barry-manilow.html#a410073

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

254. So....

Based on the feminism101 definition, which includes simply "acting on sexual feelings," if Miley Cyrus takes it up the ass from a Missouri mule while on stage, nobody should have any problem with that. Nobody should be allowed to say, "Jesus Christ, that's really inappropriate" because she's merely expressing her sexuality.

There's a line between expressing sexuality and the crass exploitation of sexuality. We clearly disagree as to whether she crossed that line.

Here's a feminist thought for you: Entertainment industry executives (nearly all of them male) are using this woman and her apparent willingness to debase and degrade herself on national television to make this year's numbers. They're taking a child (yeah, yeah, she's all of twenty years old) and sexualizing and objectifying her for their profit.

Personally, I have a problem with that.

[LadyHawkAZ]

255. If you're referring to her as a child,

then the propaganda has worked.

[NM_Birder]

241. She may have had a chance to be known for talent, but.....

There's not enough talent in Miley Cyrus to promote,....... to contrast against finger banging herself onstage while running around with her tongue hanging out in a porn pucker.

Her skank-o-meter redlined at 20 years old, shame, because she'll be boring in another year and "America's got skank" is going to be the next most popular show.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

213. Am I allowed to "bad music" shame her?

Because her music fucking sucks and she hasn't got an ounce of talent.

[BainsBane]

250. She took bad "music" to new depths

Just when you thought pop music couldn't get any worse, enter Miley Cyrus.

[theHandpuppet]

276. Well, when the talent simply isn't there....

... you can always take unabashed vulgarity to a new level. That way she won't have to rely on her musical ability but succeed as a celebrity. Seems to be the way to fame and fortune these days. Doesn't take brains or talent to make millions -- just ask the Kardashians.

[LordGlenconner]

222. The premise of the OP is absurd

And furthermore, her greatest crime is not dancing around like a trollop, it's that she has NO TALENT WHATSOEVER.

[rbixby]

232. I think the whole kerfuffle is sickening in general

I don't see anything wrong with what she did from a moral, racial, gender, or any other view. Sure I thought it was in poor taste and really bizarre, but I just don't get the outrage about it. If anything, the whole ruffling of feathers it caused is helping her by raising her profile in the public eye, and that was probably the whole intention behind it. I think its ridiculous that something like that performance in this day and age raises any eyebrows.
I just wish that it didn't cause such a stir in general and that people could just take it at face value and realize that the whole thing is having its desired effect of taking someone who's been out of the spotlight and thrusting her back in there again, you better believe its going to do a lot to boost her album that's about to come out.
People really need to realize that its a publicity stunt, and not some sort of big statement about feminism or racism or anything beyond a scheme to generate buzz for her upcoming album.

[dionysus]

269. some might be outraged, i'm not.. i think it was a pathetic performance worth ridiculing tho.

[rbixby]

278. I agree, and it has nothing to do with gender or race

[polichick]

238. "You're gonna make me lonesome when you go" - THAT I want to hear...

I'll go look for it.

That crap she did on TV was really ugly - but I agree, no uglier than a guy doing it.

On edit: Here's a nice version:

[intheflow]

266. Sexually liberated woman or media-manipulated tool?

S.O. and I had this conversation last night. I think she's a manufactured star and this stunt was manufactured, too. She must live in such a bubble - and has pretty much her whole life - that her agent/handlers could tell her anything and she'd believe it was the right thing to do. I'm sure she's hoping she'll be Brittney, but more often than not these female child stars try to make the leap into the adult music scene and end up ruining their careers and going on some kind of skid. Kind of a 21st century of version of the playboy bunny spread many girl actresses were advised to do to jump-start a wanna-be acting career in the '70s and '80s. It seems to me the ones who transition best from child start to adult star are the ones who keep it classy: Anne Hathaway, Jodie Foster, Drew Barrymore (though she had to go through some shit to get there, admittedly), Natalie Portman, Emma Watson.

[rocktivity]

284. Lets REALLY be honest: Miley is a slut-GAMER

Last edited Sun Feb 22, 2015, 03:35 AM - Edit history (8)

she's in the business of being slut shamed!

Miley is a very good country singer -- so why ISN'T she one? Because her record label wanted a big-bucks video pop-parazzi tart of their own, and she accepted the job. You call it artistic license? I call it slut-GAMING, as invented by Miley's grandmother Madonna thirty years ago. You dress like a clown, act like a slut, sing as an afterthought, subsist on the resulting controversy -- and if anyone dares to call you on it, you accuse them of being an anti-feminist pearl-clutching slut-shamer.

Your record label makes more money off you than their other "serious artist" acts, and the only down side is that you're forced to invest more and more in your visual style than your artistic substance. But by supporting your right to "control your sexualization," your fans and media parasites retain their right to ogle you -- until you do something so outlandish they HAVE to dump you, or they trade you in for a younger model.


rocktivity