Billionaire Executives and Owners are a lot like Royalty...someday the idea will seem just as stupid

[reformist2]

I really don't care what the "free market" says - when the owner of a company makes more in one year than one of the workers could ever make, even if they worked 24/7 and lived 400 years, that just ain't right.

[Dreamer Tatum]

1. This point is at best stupid

and at worst completely asinine.

Are you arguing for higher worker pay, or lower CEO pay? Should they be paid the same? Should burger flippers make $30K a year with full benefits and pension?

What's the POINT?

[Buns_of_Fire]

2. I would argue for both -- just to squeeze the disparity graph a little tighter.

I've got no problem with strategic planners, CEOs, and the like making a millionaire's salary, if the company's bottom line justifies it. That's the BoD's call, if they're interested in overseeing an honest business.

But to tell me that a parasite like Lloyd Blankfein is worth $21 million a year ( http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/12/us-goldmansachs-idUSBRE93B0SP20130412 ) -- as the CEO of a company that produces NOTHING but paperwork -- stretches my admittedly popuiist roots to the breaking point.

And that's before I even get into the Kook Brothers.

[reformist2]

3. Thank you for your thoughtful post. ;)

[hunter]

4. A job worth doing is worth a living wage.

Single payer health care, retirement benefits, and a generous system of education, welfare, and unemployment that competes directly with the crappiest jobs.

Nobody should have to live in fear of homelessness, hunger, or economic ruin caused by illness or accident.

And corporate fat cats ought to be taxed out of existence.

[Dreamer Tatum]

6. Retirement benefits for flipping burgers?

[hunter]

7. Hell yes.

And cleaning toilets and pulling weeds and any other job you can think of.

I'm fucking tired of the U.S.A.. It's not a first world nation. It's a big stupid Banana Republic with a grotesquely oversized military and corrupt political system.

And some of the wealthiest assholes running this place ought to be in prison.

I WANT A PEACEFUL REVOLUTION!

Fuck "economic productivity" as we now know it. It's bad for the natural environment anyways.

[Dreamer Tatum]

8. heheheheh

Well, with such a focused agenda, you should do well.

[hunter]

14. First they laugh at you.

Then you win.

Have a nice day.

[reformist2]

36. Amen to that. Everyone who works - or who is willing to work - deserves a decent retirement.

[MNBrewer]

26. I guess only daydreamers get to retire

sad to see such anti-democratic viewpoints here on DU.

[noiretextatique]

12. why do you have such contempt for workers?

it is not really a "democratic" type of attitude.

[Dreamer Tatum]

13. Nor is supporting a wage guaranteed to get people fired. nt

[closeupready]

16. Well, but then we just rescind trade treaties,

impose tariffs, etc. So that on balance, it's more costly to export jobs than to simply compensate people fairly.

[Dreamer Tatum]

18. That sure worked well in the Great Depression, huh? nt

[closeupready]

20. Do you have anything other than one-liners/soundbites?

You sound like you are just parroting Heritage Foundation talking points...?

[Dreamer Tatum]

21. No, I am all for this $15 minimum wage

I just want to know what you plan to tell the people who get canned because employers can't pay it.

[closeupready]

22. Wait, what are you talking about? $15 minimum wage is

a different thread. I haven't commented about those demands, either here or elsewhere.

[Rex]

30. He is getting his talking point flash cards mixed up.

The crap that I read on this site sometimes, rivals the crap I can find in the National Review. It is fucking pathetic that supposed Dems and Liberals believe in Reaganomics.

[HughBeaumont]

23. You spelled "won't" wrong.

[MNBrewer]

27. can't or won't?

When the tumbrel comes for them, I bet they will.

[nebenaube]

32. the only employers that can't are also working in the trenchs...

The suits can pay it.

[closeupready]

15. Why the fuck not?

Wow. Aren't you something.

Why the fuck shouldn't every single person who works get retirement benefits of some kind?

[Dreamer Tatum]

17. The kid who cuts my lawn...

...do I just put money in an annuity for him, or what?


Sorry - pensions for unskilled labor known for immense turnover is a bridge too far for me.

[closeupready]

19. You pay his social security on his behalf, for one thing.

Or I HOPE you do, or else you are breaking the law.

[FBaggins]

37. No you don't

Nor is that "breaking the law"

[hunter]

28. What? It's okay to fuck the maid too???

Yes, I am looking for an alert on this.

[Chan790]

9. Yes.

The burger-flipper should make at-least in the $20Ks if they're working more than 25 hours a week or more than 3 days a week.
The CEO shouldn't make more than 100x what the burger flipper makes.

So if the CEO feels he deserves 3M/year...that means he better be playing the flipper $30K.

[winter is coming]

24. ^^ This. n/t

[Bunnahabhain]

31. Couple points here

The CEO does not set his/her salary so what the CEO "feels" he deserves is not determinative.

Also, why 100x? Pull-it-out-of-your-ass metric here?

Next, a burger flipper should make at least in the 20ks? That's below subsistence in New York and other high cost metro areas. You think burger flippers should not get a living wage? That's very un-Democratic.

Do you see what I'm getting at here? That economics and corporate governance is maybe, just maybe, not your strong point?

[Chan790]

33. Some rebuttals.

While $25k may not be subsistence in NYC...and I know, I'm from Brooklyn...it's already more than they're making...and obviously, it needs to factor in cost of living. Paying a burger flipper in rural Kansas what you pay one in NYC is equally unfair...the buying power of a dollar in the rural middle of the US is several times what it is in the urban metropolises of the Northeast.

I should hope both economics and corporate governance are strong points, I worked for 3 years in business banking specializing in NPOs. I was pretty fucking good at it until I decided to rat out my employer for fraudulent practices in another area of the bank (mortgages) during the economic meltdown. Combined with my efforts to organize the branch employees, they felt a need to find an excuse to fire me. I took them to court and won.

I just didn't realize that you needed a complete economic 350 page plan with charts and graphs. I presented a kernel of an idea that was not meant to be taken as a fleshed-out proposal.

The 100x metric is based in a belief in the necessity of restrained capitalism. I took the traditional figure of 20x used in several of the more-successful Asian Tiger economies and Japan...and multiplied it by 5 to get to a number that wasn't so small as to be rejected out of hand. So, yes...educated pull-it-out-of-your-ass metric. Further, I believe we need legal reforms to restrain the cronyism of corporate boards.

(Generally though, I think the bigger problem is that I feel that current iteration of capitalism needs to be castrated while Wall Street burns and you're seemingly committed to its preservation in large part.)

[Bunnahabhain]

35. Further points

First, let's deal with your parenthetical close. Please detail to me where my post would indicate your conclusion. Please, be concise.

Next, you did not dispute my correction of CEO salaries. If you have the experience you say you do I think you know I'm correct and that reading your comment would lead one to conclude the person making that comment is unaware of how CEO salaries are actually set. I do agree with you that compensation committees and boards are not always giving proper oversight and governance but that is hardly a conversation your original post would raise. I do think SarbOx has helped. I know I sure as hell spend a few days reviewing before I sign off on my financials. While I was not asking for a 350 page plan of anything what you said was just factually inaccurate so I corrected it.

The Japanese economy you say. So how is that doing for say the last 20 years? I fail to see why anyone should look to them for economic advice. The last thing the US needs right now is 20 years of a deflationary cycle.

I think the very first thing we should do to change CEO compensation is simply rescind Section 162(m) of the IRS code. Holy fucking unintended consequences Batman.

[noiretextatique]

11. workers deserve pay, benefits and pensions

just like executives. the point is: all labor is valuable, and i might add some labor is more valuable than others. the ceo would not have a job if it weren't for "burger flippers."

[JustAnotherGen]

29. +1

[Coyotl]

5. How do you suppose "royalty" started in the first place?

One way only: self-declaration by the rich and powerful!

[Chan790]

10. Eat the Rich! n/t

[MNBrewer]

25. Nothing the guillotine wouldn't be able to solve.

[Laelth]

34. k&r for economic justice. n/t

-Laelth