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Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:16 PM

 

holy fuck...

Obama Willing to Pursue Solo Syria Strikes, Aides Say
By MARK LANDLER, DAVID E. SANGER, THOM SHANKER and MARK MAZZETTI - NYT
Published: August 29, 2013

<snip>

WASHINGTON — President Obama is prepared to move ahead with a limited military strike on Syria, administration officials said on Thursday, even with a rejection of such action by Britain’s Parliament, an increasingly restive Congress, and lacking an endorsement from the United Nations Security Council.

Although the officials cautioned that Mr. Obama had not made a final decision, all indications suggest that the strike could occur as soon as United Nations inspectors, who are investigating the Aug. 21 attack that killed hundreds of Syrians, leave the country. They are scheduled to depart Damascus, the capital, on Saturday.

The White House is to present its case for military action against Syria to Congressional leaders on Thursday night. Administration officials assert that the intelligence will show that forces loyal to President Bashar al-Assad carried out the chemical weapons attack in the suburbs of Damascus.

The intelligence does not tie Mr. Assad directly to the attack, officials briefed on the presentation said, but the administration believes that it has enough evidence to carry out a limited strike that would deter the Syrian government from using these weapons again.

Mr. Obama, officials said, is basing his case for action both on...

<snip>

More: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/30/us/politics/obama-syria.html


71 replies, 6352 views

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Reply holy fuck... (Original post)
WillyT Aug 2013 OP
TwilightGardener Aug 2013 #1
KoKo Aug 2013 #6
TwilightGardener Aug 2013 #10
totodeinhere Aug 2013 #63
DearAbby Aug 2013 #65
polichick Aug 2013 #2
spanone Aug 2013 #3
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #4
polichick Aug 2013 #7
Link Speed Aug 2013 #9
TwilightGardener Aug 2013 #12
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #14
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #13
Link Speed Aug 2013 #15
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #16
Link Speed Aug 2013 #23
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #26
Link Speed Aug 2013 #38
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #41
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #28
Dragonfli Aug 2013 #42
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #17
dionysus Aug 2013 #32
LittleBlue Aug 2013 #19
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #20
LittleBlue Aug 2013 #22
Link Speed Aug 2013 #29
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #37
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #30
Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #54
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #57
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #58
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #59
Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #61
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #62
Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #64
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #67
Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #68
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #69
Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #70
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #71
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #31
LittleBlue Aug 2013 #36
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #39
Dragonfli Aug 2013 #46
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #21
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #24
n2doc Aug 2013 #11
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #18
David__77 Aug 2013 #27
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #35
David__77 Aug 2013 #43
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #44
David__77 Aug 2013 #45
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #47
morningfog Aug 2013 #52
Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #60
n2doc Aug 2013 #5
adirondacker Aug 2013 #50
Xipe Totec Aug 2013 #8
defacto7 Aug 2013 #25
Rosa Luxemburg Aug 2013 #33
polichick Aug 2013 #53
Le Taz Hot Aug 2013 #34
Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #40
Dragonfli Aug 2013 #49
adirondacker Aug 2013 #48
L0oniX Aug 2013 #51
panader0 Aug 2013 #66
treestar Aug 2013 #55
Safetykitten Aug 2013 #56

Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:21 PM

1. I doubt he will, though.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:31 PM

6. NYT was a leader for Iraq Invasion...Judith Miller and Bill Keller the Editor...

We Shall See....

Dark of the MOON...a good time for Attack.

With that "Red Line"....How could he not do it before he leaves for the G-8 this Sunday? How better to shove it in Russia's Face?

It's an American "Labor Holiday"...it would be too tempting to do it while American's Minds are Elsewhere for the last Weekend of Summer.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #6)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:50 PM

10. I just don't see it happening--UNLESS there is something going on that we aren't privy to.

His cabinet isn't made up of people who would urge unilateral military action, except maybe Power.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 09:58 PM

63. I wish I could share your optimism but I can't. n/t

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 10:16 PM

65. There are reports of evacuating refugees

causing great suffering, to be a bluff would be cruel. This is the guy who took a risk, doing what he deemed right for the country, ordering the Osama Bin Laden attack. Also recall the call regarding the pirates earlier in his term. I believe there is something that is compelling this man morally to do what he believes is right. I would just hope he would explain that clearly to the rest of us.

He needs to call congress back, show them what he has, then go to the UN and show them, Shame Russia and China, if this case is compelling enough. Then let congress vote. Have this be a joint venture. Lets actually use the constitution on this one.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:23 PM

2. Well, he has to earn that Peace Prize somehow...

Oh, wait...

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:25 PM

3. 'Although the officials cautioned that Mr. Obama had not made a final decision'

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:27 PM

4. I cannot believe people have so little faith in the guy that killed Osama Bin Laden...

 

this guy is full of surprises...so we shall see. But I think he is going to stun some folks...

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:31 PM

7. I really hope you're right.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:50 PM

9. Huh? The SEALs have nothing to do with this.

 

The only thing BO had to do with the OBL deal was to sort of give it the go-ahead. He didn't plan it and he didn't carry it out.

And he OK'd Kill on Sight in order to keep OBL out of a courtroom.

The details of the raid that were initially released were nothing but propaganda.

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Response to Link Speed (Reply #9)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:53 PM

12. "Sort of give it the go ahead"--uhhh...that's to the credit (or blame) of the Big Cheese.

That's why he gets the big bucks. Had it gone wrong and our troops died, he would have accepted the blame.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #12)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:55 PM

14. exactly Twilight....this conversation is very very enlightening but not about what some will think

 

is enlightening about this.

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Response to Link Speed (Reply #9)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:53 PM

13. Who said Seals? He was the man that made THAT call

 

along with the call to take out those Somali pirates that kidnapped the ship capt call!

Hey Link....your ODS is showing!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #13)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:02 PM

15. What is ODS?

 

I am a former SEAL (actually, UDT - before the SEAL tag came along). Giving the OK is far from the actual killing of a human being. BO did not find OBL, he did not scope the sit, he did not rope in or shoot the fucker. He simply authorized an op.

As a member of US Special Forces, I always despised the superiors who never put their balls on the chopping block.

And, what is ODS?

I am heading to a major Wine Event, but I will check your reply when I get back home.

Thanks, I am pretty new here and am not up on the acronyms (or whatever they are called).

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Response to Link Speed (Reply #15)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:05 PM

16. whatevah dude...IF it had failed...HE would have taken the blame! So don't give me that shit..

 

He took the gamble on them knowing that. Jimmy Carter can explain it to ya better.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:13 PM

23. If it had failed, we would have never known

 

October Surprise is what fucked Carter.

Reagan/Bush fucked Carter with inside info from CIA.

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Response to Link Speed (Reply #23)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:15 PM

26. Of course we would....you think that many Seals would have remained silent?

 

You cannot be serious... ODS is the only explanation.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #26)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:26 PM

38. Of course they would

 

How many members (or ex-members) of US Special Forces do you know?

I would bet on "none".

The only problem I have with BO is the DOJ stance on weed and this Syria bullshit.

Oh, yeah, and not prosecuting members of the previous admin. But I think we are seeing why they took that stance in today's light.

I am serious, and I think you may have a lack of real-world knowledge.

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Response to Link Speed (Reply #38)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:30 PM

41. they are talking NOW and the DID succeed!

 

they write books and movies! I think it is YOU with a real world problem....


and in case you havent heard...!!PBO!! told the DOJ to stand down on weed. Is that lack of knowledge a symptom of your "real-world" problem?

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Response to Link Speed (Reply #23)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:17 PM

28. no matter....Jimmy has carried that ever since. Ask him if it was still a mark against "HIS"

 

legacy...

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:30 PM

42. The Special forces guy you are replying to obviously is nowhere near the brave

Commando and warhawk you are.

I know I respect the bravery and experience you possess as an elite member of the 101st Chiarborne Division.


Go screaming chicken-hawks!!

Sometimes the wimpy seal types are too deranged as you pointed out to recognize how much bravery it takes to sit in a chair and posture with the lives of their service brothers (that are rightfully considered nothing more than tools to make the civilian commander look tough).

Their derangement syndrome makes it impossible for them to see how brave and knowledgeable you are as well, after all, anyone can join the military and become one of the very few good enough to even qualify for SEAL training, how many can cheer on military action and get hard from the comfort of an office chair far away from the smell of blood you crave?

You are right, what does he know? he is just a tool to be used by superior hawks, obviously deranged if he does not take your sagely advice on war and military action, just who the fuck does he think he is anyway?

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Response to Link Speed (Reply #15)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:06 PM

17. ODS

 

Obama Derangement Syndrome

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Response to Link Speed (Reply #15)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:22 PM

32. LOL

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #13)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:08 PM

19. That was such a difficult call

 

I mean, the balls it took to "yes" to kill the world's most hated man.

He risked his political future on that one.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:11 PM

20. but if they failed....HE would have his entire legacy.....you know as LEADER of the U.S. of America.

 

you know...the first Black one too! He put that on the line....betting they would. So dont give me your ODS either.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #20)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:13 PM

22. You're right

 

It was such a massive call, on par with getting out of bed in the morning.

Only a giant amongst men could have pulled that one off.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #22)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:17 PM

29. Whoa! Someone with a real-world view!

 

We would not have heard a word if the entire Team had been snuffed.

But we did hear about OBL hiding behind women, etc.

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Response to Link Speed (Reply #29)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:25 PM

37. are you suggesting here that the President of the United states would have Seal Team Six "snuffed"

 

out as you put it? Is that really what you are suggesting here? Cause if that is the case...you really DO have ODS and I think you will be my very first DU ignore...you are sick. Check yourself.....you just disrespected the office...

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #22)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:18 PM

30. Yeah when getting out of bed means a huge scar on the fact that you are going down in history!

 

Yeah....that kind of getting out of bed day!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #30)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 09:33 PM

54. Are you saying the President was more worried about his political hide

than the lives of the men he sent into danger to get OBL?

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #54)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 09:44 PM

57. not political hide...but one of the major return for investment becoming the first African American

 

President...is you are going down in history...just is...

But if he failed....he soiled that and perhaps set back that progress another 50 yrs. You think that has no value?

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #54)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 09:48 PM

58. Pretty big thing to carry don't you think? a generations ago....

 

he woulda been fighting for Civil Rights...

You don't think he should ever consider THAT legacy?

I am a female...and when Hillary becomes President....she has to carry that load too...Less than 100 years ago...women couldn't even vote.

I WANT her to take that very seriously!

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #54)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 09:51 PM

59. so you see...it's much more than his "political hide"...

 

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #59)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 09:54 PM

61. I guess I just don't look at the world that way.

I always try to do what is right and I have more times than I can count put myself way out on a limb to do that regardless of the consequences. I have not regretted it ever.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #61)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 09:57 PM

62. I guess you don't....let me guess...White male?

 

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #62)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 10:09 PM

64. No, white female almost sixty years old and a retired nurse.

I am a wildlife rehabilitator and advocate. I put my license on the line multiple times advocating for my patients when it was the right thing to do. I did not evaluate first how it would affect my career. I did the right thing. It is how I am wired.
I advocate for wildlife and habitat now and in the same way.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #64)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 10:41 PM

67. then shame....you cannot understand that...

 

my grandmother was born one month before women had the right to vote....she was born into a world where she was a second class citizen. I understand the importance of the first woman President and the legacy and how that effects ALL women from that day forward....the same is for African Americans now....like Oprah said...she felt like she could finally set down her suitcase. So for shame you cannot understand that....

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #67)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 10:50 PM

68. I am not the least bit ashamed of doing the right thing regardless

of the cost to myself. This discussion is ridiculous on your part in that you have no idea what The President was thinking about. You are projecting what you think he considered in making the decision. I like to think he did the right thing without considering his legacy first. You make him out to be a man of little character with your version of his decision making. You can take your shaming somewhere else.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #68)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 11:00 PM

69. you cannot change the subject...sorry...

 

its about the legacy and burden of being the first African American President and all that means to all generations of African Americans going forward. His legacy is very important. As will be the first female President...After this ceremonies of this past weekend and Yesterday how you cannot see that is beyond me!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #69)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 11:15 PM

70. I am not changing the subject and there is no need to answer this post

as I have nothing further to say to you. I also expect the first female president to do the right thing because hopefully she will have morals and character and will do so without having to check that it will affect her legacy first. Good grief! It is called character. It is called being a person of integrity.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #70)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 11:20 PM

71. He is Not "Checking" ....twist my words all you want...

 

and also....I will answer if I want to...you are not going to control my conversation....

I said...he bet his legacy...which is a pretty big deal under the circumstances. So go back where you came from....your ODS is duly noted

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #22)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:21 PM

31. Much more than YOUR reason for getting out of bed...huh?

 

100 yrs from now...no one will be even thinking about LittleBlue....

but they will STILL be TALKING about President Barack Obama....he was betting with WHAT they would be talking about him!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #31)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:24 PM

36. Oh wow

 

Brilliant meltdown.

Keep replying

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #36)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:27 PM

39. nothing melting here....

 

but you can pretend that you "did some damage" if it makes your little heart feel better....I don't mind at all.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #36)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:36 PM

46. Hey Blue, is this "chairborne division" warrior your own pet troll or can anyone play with it?

Never mind, it appears to want to entertain us without requiring much response. Comedy meltdown is comedic.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:12 PM

21. Ask Jimmy Carter about that call

 

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:14 PM

24. yeah....he gambled the legacy of the first African American President on them...

 

get how ballsy that is now?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:52 PM

11. He didn't publicly announce that he had located Bin Laden and was going to teach him a lesson

Obama seems like a different person now, after 2012. He has done the same thing with Snowden, sounding belligerent, threatening countries without any real chance of getting his way, and letting his administration run a bunch of actions that he doesn't seem really in control of. That's why I have lost faith in him. If he had quietly worked out a plan and implemented it, like with Bin Laden, then maybe this would work.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:08 PM

18. Yes he did! He said from the start....if he had the opportunity to take that man out he would....

 

and he knew if they failed....it was his burden to bare....It would negatively impact his entire legacy. So don't give me that shit either...more ODS

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:16 PM

27. Well don't kill Osama and then make nice with AQ in Syria.

That's all I'm saying. Making the wrong move here will undo the good.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #27)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:23 PM

35. did PBO ever say that was what he was going to do?

 

I haven't heard about any summit have you? I think you underestimate that man to your own peril.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #35)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:31 PM

43. Either it's warranted, or he's got no control over his administration

His spokespersons and SOS have been speaking crazy talk like warmaniacs.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #43)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:32 PM

44. WTF did you just even say?

 

that's incoherent...

We do not know what he has planned....he hasn't said yet.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #44)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:36 PM

45. So all the media are lying. There are no real leaks?

Two-day strikes against military and security infrastructure. It's all over the place.

By your definition, we should all twiddle our thumbs and wait for the worst... or, to be fair, the best. NO - we must demand the best.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #45)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:37 PM

47. who said wait for "worst"....thats not the word I would use..

 

but then I am more of a glass half full gal....and I dont have ODS

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 09:00 PM

52. Faith in a politician is a fool's lot.

 

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Response to morningfog (Reply #52)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 09:51 PM

60. That is it in a nutshell. I have to keep learning it over and over because

I really want to give that faith and not have it destroyed but that is not the real world.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:29 PM

5. Somehow I see this all ending up like his plan to cut SS

In the end, nothing will happen, although the most outrageous plans will be floated in the meantime by anonymous sources. And the cheerleaders will return with their "He never did anything of the sort" chants.


I just don't see him going it alone, like W, on this. Even Britain isn't going to go along. Congress won't go along because the repubs will never want to give Obama anything he wants. Not unless something worse happens over there.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:57 PM

50. I'm guessing an airstrike on Assad's Palace, along with airbases and military structures.

from the article...
"But administration officials made clear that the eroding support would not deter Mr. Obama in deciding to go ahead with a strike. Pentagon officials said that the Navy had now moved a fifth destroyer into the eastern Mediterranean Sea. Each ship carries dozens of Tomahawk cruise missiles that would probably be the centerpiece of any attack on Syria.

Even before the parliamentary vote, White House officials said, Mr. Obama decided there was no way he could overcome objections by Russia, Syria’s longtime backer, to any resolution in the Security Council.

Although administration officials cautioned that Mr. Obama had not made a final decision, all indications suggest that a strike could occur soon after United Nations investigators charged with scrutinizing the Aug. 21 attack leave the country. They are scheduled to depart Damascus on Saturday."

He sounds pretty determined to get involved. Hopefully I'm wrong.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 07:38 PM

8. Evidence like this?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:14 PM

25. Here's a tin hat scenario....

FYI, I am against military intervention.

(tin hat)

OB doesn't simply shoot the missiles at usual targets. The target is specifically Assad's brother who is the one probably responsible for the chemical attack. Assad's brother is the one who actually calls the shots in that country as the supreme military commander and does not follow orders from anyone. He's a loose gun and Assad the ruler hates him. So the US takes out the brother and his cronies then Assad the ruler makes a deal with the west to remain in power with revisions in their "constitution" or whatever it is to allow some form of democracy. There are other enemies in Syria that Assad will have to deal with but now he will have the backing of the west.

(/tin hat)

Just a thought. I still want no part of it.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #25)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:22 PM

33. We have our agents who can go in there and capture them

we don't need to waste all this arsenal

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #25)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 09:33 PM

53. Interesting scenario. Makes sense to take out the person responsible...

and, since he's not head of state, it could work. Better than killing innocents.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:23 PM

34. It's a done deal

Big Oil says, "Go in" and being the obedient servant that he is, we'll go in. Most likely within 10 days and with no consultation with Congress.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:28 PM

40. Is he putting on his comfortable Cowboy Boots?

 

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #40)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:47 PM

49. I am not sure but I heard from unconfirmed sources he has already ordered his XXXL sized codpiece

for the appropriate photo OP.

The rumor is it will make Tweety tingle like never before (there may even be visible stains this time, Bush never got visible stains)!

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 08:38 PM

48. What's amazing is how similar the Time's comment section resembles DU.

A lot of angst for the President.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 09:00 PM

51. I wonder who will be down wind of the bombed chem storage site. n/t

 

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #51)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 10:18 PM

66. Yeah

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 09:35 PM

55. you can hardly believe it, can you?

If it happens again? Obama's fault, right?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 09:39 PM

56. LBJ? LBObama sounds like.

 

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