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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEnergy Firm CAUGHT Breaking Down Door to INSTALL Smart Meter!
Smart Meters are a financial coup for Big Energy. This is why we are witnessing - and now catching on film - criminal acts of vandalism, breaking & entering and trespass by energy firms trying to install their next-generation 'cash machines' in the homes of customers. When companies are prepared to treat the properties of their customers with this much contempt, the extent to which sensitive personal data will be cared for is in little doubt.
A one year study in Toronto, by Toronto Hydro, showed that 80% of people's bills INCREASE after Smart Meters are installed. "Dozens and dozens of customers...are reporting some huge billing spikes, in one case more than 1,000 percent" reported CTV's Consumer Affairs Reporter, Lynda Steele.
Big Energy firms are publicly-listed, for-profit enterprises answerable to their shareholders. If you are left with any uncertainty about whose agenda Smart Meters are designed to serve, we encourage you to watch Josh del Sol's critical investigation of the Smart Metering and Smart Grid phenomenon, Take Back Your Power.
Take Back Your Power - premiering 5 September 2013
Pre-order now: http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/film/
Help distribute: http://www.ykr.be/1vfwdqlqxr
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Renew Deal
(85,083 posts)
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Yeah, power bills will go up. It's part of how we nudge people to use less electricity.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)We had some nasty bills a couple of years ago when they under-estimated for a few months in a row.
Warpy
(114,579 posts)after one was installed but then the old fridge died. The new one doesn't cost much to run, at all.
I'm back to $40.00/month, $55.00 in the hottest weather when the swamp cooler is on full blast.
global1
(26,507 posts)as the electric company will not need meter readers anymore. They are putting a lot of people (meter readers) out of work. No sick days, no vacation pay, no health insurance, etc - big savings for the electric company.
My community is going to get these smart meters installed during September. I'm sure that there will be some way that the electric company will figure out how I will have to pay for this new meter. I'm thinking that they will tack on a charge to my monthly bill for the new meter.
On edit: One other thing I read about these new meters is that they eliminate estimated bills. So the electric company will be getting all their money every month now.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)I pay less per month for energy than I pay in one week for food, and I don't eat a lot of food.
Renew Deal
(85,083 posts)It's not like everyone got the same bill.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Current runs through two coils which create a magnetic field, and that field creates eddy currents that make the aluminum disk spin, and the rotations are counted and are indicated on the dials.
New meters are digital and far less prone to error.
In a lot of cases, old meters were undermeasuring actual usage, so people got cranky.
These cranky people don't seem to care that for years and years they were underpaying.
No wonder they want their old shitty inaccurate meters back!
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Was that I was careful with my electric and paid a fair amount. New meter shows up and suddenly I am paying more for the same amount I was using before because of a failure in their ability to do their jobs.
In one case, in southern, Ohio. My bill went from less than 80/mo to double and they claimed I owed them over 900 bucks - and they said the problem was not my old meter but a problem at their main station with how it was reading. Now I lived not far from there in a bigger place and paid about the same there for 3 years.
No evidence, no proof offered, just 'fork over 900 bucks'.
If they can make the meter so smart how about they have a panel installed in your house showing the cost in real time, like when you pump gas? Now that would be fair - but am guessing they are more interested in finding ways to bilk people out of money than actually saving them money.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)So you can see your hourly usage.
I do think a panel in your house telling you that would be a good idea though.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Sell small cell phone like panels to home owners that show that data. Now all I need is a kickstarter 
nebenaube
(3,496 posts)Need extra funds this month, increase the error rate in their favor... Who tests these things? Is there anyway to validate the calibration?
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)The flat rate tends to actually be cheaper than the tiered rate (called CARE in CA) that is being pushed on poor people. I did a comprehensive analysis a few years ago here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=227662&mesg_id=228201
Wealthier people can use more power on the tiered rate and they actually benefit. If a poor person chooses the flat rate plan, however, and a few days are super hot, they will be totally screwed. So they're forced into the TOU plan (Time of Utilization).
I think more needs to be done with the plans and with the smart meters to assure that people are comfortable and not having to suffer because their electric bill is "more accurately reflected."
grantcart
(53,061 posts)I believe that there is probably a pretty simple way to subsidize rates for the poor but to do so we want to maximize graveyard use of electricity, no?
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)There are always solutions. But I think ultimately the short term effect is damaging and is probably one reason climate change mitigation is taking a backseat. It's just not being done with everyone in mind. It's the whole market mindset. At minimum, at bare minimum, everyone on CARE should've had their bills balanced with the last months bill before the smart meter came into effect, or even, better yet, have both the smart meter and old meter installed at the same time for a year so that the average can be fixed and the old rate can be maintained.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)From the Nat Geo article cited in the thread
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2012/12/121212-smart-meter-privacy/
Some states, including California and Maine, which has the highest penetration rate in the country for advanced meters, have allowed residents to opt out of smart-meter installation. So far, few customers have done so: In California, according to Chris Villarreal of the CPUC, the opt-out rate was less than half of one percent.
Also there is something suspiciously odd about the video. You don't need inside access to meters, they are on the outside of the house. The person doesn't appear similar to the utility workers I have seen and finally there isn't a company in the world that would authorize their employees to break into a house with only a single employee (or under any other circumstances) that didn't have some type of law enforcement authorization (i.e. a gas company employee breaking into an unoccupied house to check on a leak).
If this was really happening then you would have heard of hundreds of cases and hundreds of lawsuits.
roody
(10,849 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)The meter reader is in a set of coveralls four sizes two large.
Meters are outside, otherwise they can't be read.
The dude in the story seems to be a real person, a yoga instructor, but Google search doesn't show any stories about him and a meter problem.
I think it's all hype to promote this cheezy Infowars type video.
Yet a lot of people are buying it, apparently.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)They are watching us.
They are spying on me.
They have black helicopters.
And now they want to force me to use power when it is cheap.
It is all rather right wing paranoia against the government or anything communal in nature.
NickB79
(20,329 posts)And the power company said that was accurate.
I can see your point, that more accurate readings will cause people's bills to rise a little, but how could a residential customer possibly use that much energy?!?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Remember, an iPhone draws more power than a fridge.
madokie
(51,076 posts)an Iphone uses more power than a fridge 
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Depending on your settings, it can.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2013/08/130826-six-stealthy-household-energy-hogs/
greenman3610
(3,959 posts)http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/08/25/2518361/iphone-electricity-refrigerator/
For 14 years, the coal industry has been pushing the myth the Internet is an energy hog. For 14 years, I (and other scientists) have been debunking that myth. Last week, I promised a detailed debunking of the iPhone=Refrigerator calculation from Dr. Jon Koomey, the world’s foremost authority on the electricity consumption of the Internet. Here it is — JR.
Last week, several friends alerted me to a claim that the iPhone supposedly uses as much electricity as two refrigerators — when you count the energy needed to make it, run it and power the “behind-the-wall” equipment to deliver data to the device. Discussion of the original report (“The Cloud Begins with Coal,” hereafter CBC) showed up on the Breakthrough Institute site, Time Magazine Online, MSN News, the Huffington Post, MarketWatch, and Grist, among others (with most focusing on the comparison between a smart phone and one refrigerator).
When I heard this claim, it took me back to the year 2000, when Mark P. Mills and Peter Huber first made the claim that the networking electricity for a wireless Palm VII exceeded the electricity for running a refrigerator (1000 to 2000 kWh, they claimed, the lower bound of which was a bit higher than the average installed base for US fridges at that time). It didn’t sound plausible, and so I and some colleagues investigated, finding that Mr. Mills and Mr. Huber had overestimated the electricity needed to feed data to a wireless Palm VII by a factor of 2000 (Koomey et al. 2004).
A Little Weird
(1,754 posts)I've been hearing this same thing. It doesn't even sound plausible yet few seem to question this guy's claim.
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)This is bullshit of the odorous kind
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Yeah, if the refrigerator is set to "unplugged", and the iPhone is plugged in, sure.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"You think I'm joking..."
Not joking. Merely gullible.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)I live in Austin TX and my bills are nowhere near $1100. My highest electric bill this summer was $300.
Of course one time the city claimed I used 70,000 gallons of water. Turned out they read the neighbors meter instead of mine-they bioth in the same manhole out front. So the difference between my old reading and the neighbor's was 70K gallons. I pointed out I have no pool, I don't water the yard and my average monthly use was 3000 gallons. They tried to suggest I had a broken pipe and I said if that much water was running into my yard it would be a swamp. They reluctantly read the meter again and it was "Oops"
When they put in the smart meters, everyone's bill in my neighborhood jumped about 15%.
wercal
(1,370 posts)"Remember, an iPhone draws more power than a fridge."
Here's the article that started this rumor:
http://theweek.com/article/index/248273/your-iphone-uses-more-energy-than-a-refrigerator#
If you read the fine print, it uses a 'mid-size' fridge for the comparison...and the twists and turns and inverted logic continues from there.
David__77
(24,640 posts)I'll tell you that I've examined energy consumption time series data for many thousands of homes and businesses in jurisdictions across North America. To do the sort of analysis I sometimes do, I need to identify outliers, where something doesn't make sense for, say, a single family residence, or the expected relationship of temperature to energy consumption, etc. I've personally explored many of these cases, and there was always a clear reason for the consumption pattern based on occupancy, or something changing about actual consumption. There are some kooks out there who really think this is some Orwellian thing - I think it's a bit nuts.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)top energy savers. The company seems happy with my low bills and low energy use, it seems to encourage the trend.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Which means people have been getting a break all along and now are pissed about paying for what they're using.
Funny how the same people who support solar energy are fighting one of the key components in expansion of solar.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/23/an-update-on-my-solar-power-project-results-show-why-i-got-solar-power-for-my-home-hint-climate-change-is-not-a-reason/
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)There's alot of resistance, of course, and tons of misinformation.
In reality, however, smart meters can help the consumer save money, especially if they have time of use rates.
People who use the Internet monitoring tool that comes with some smartmeters can find ways to lower energy use and to save money.
I don't understand all the fear around smart meters, they're become an integral part of the smart grid that will solve a lot of energy problems.
Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #3)
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NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Old meters just collect overall kWh usage, and they do that inaccurately.
New meters can track time of day use and interface with tools that homeowners and businesses can use to reduce usage and save money.
What's so bad about that???
Ignorance of how things work is a sad thing and doesn't make for good arguments.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)Since, yaknow, they can just shut off your power with the click of a button.
I consider that a bad thing.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It doesn't matter.
Just as cars need microprocessors to be efficient, so does our grid need updating to use smarter digital equipment.
Smartmeters aren't being deployed so that evil companies can shut off your power.
In some places that might be true, but in California we have a very robust set of regulations (since Enron) that makes utility providers behave pretty well.
Maybe Toronto sucks, I don't know.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)I think something should be in place so that they can't shut you off so easily.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)And follow up calls to see if I was satisfied with the service during the outage.
But they never called to say, hey you need to pay your bill. I wish they had.
They did send an email, which I missed.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)On old meters you could see something physical turning.
In a cyber style world they could be padding the data by a tiny percent (a tax if you will) and you would never know it - and when they are caught they would just end up paying a fine that would be about 1% of all the money they stole from people.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)It is owned by the City of Toronto.
Segami
(14,923 posts)Toronto Hydro is " publicly-listed, for profit enterprise.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)The article cites a purported increase in bills to Toronto Hydro customers, and suggests smart meters are some clever profit-driven scam.
The article states "If you are left with any uncertainty about whose agenda Smart Meters are designed to serve..." Okay, so what was the City of Toronto's "agenda" then?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It reminds me of backward people in backward places who resist building codes that call for things like insulation.
The same people fight for their right to use incandescent bulbs.
It's just pure ignorance.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It's amazing how paranoid people are.
For National Geographic News
Published December 12, 2012
Energy consultant Craig Miller, who spends much of his time working to make the smart grid a reality, got a jolt when he mentioned his work to a new acquaintance. The man, who happened to be a lineman at a Pennsylvania utility, responded earnestly: "Smart meters are a plot by Obama to spy on us."
The encounter was a disheartening sign of the challenge ahead for proponents of the smart grid, who say that the technology can help the industry meet power demand, fix problems faster, and help consumers lower their electricity bills. Advocates of such a 21st-century grid are learning that they need to take privacy concerns seriously. Though smart meters are not, in fact, a domestic espionage scheme, they do raise questions: In a world where households start talking with the power grid, what exactly will be revealed? And who will be listening? (See related quiz: "What You Don't Know About Electricity."
The term "smart grid" encompasses an array of technologies that can be implemented at various points along the line of transmission from power plant to electricity user, but for many consumers, it is symbolized by one thing: the smart meter. A majority of U.S. states have begun deploying the wireless meters, which can send electricity usage information from a household back to the utility remotely at frequent intervals. According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, more than 36 million smart meters were installed across the nation as of August 2012, covering about a quarter of all electrical customers. In the European Union, only 10 percent of households have smart meters but they are being deployed rapidly to meet an EU mandate that the technology reach 80 percent of households by 2020.
Because smart meters can provide real-time readings of household energy use instead of the familiar monthly figures most customers now see in their electric bills, the devices offer a new opportunity for consumers to learn more about their own power use and save money. But the ability to track a household's energy use multiple times a day also presents some unsettling possibilities. In theory, the information collected by smart meters could reveal how many people live in a home, their daily routines, changes in those routines, what types of electronic equipment are in the home, and other details. "It's not hard to imagine a divorce lawyer subpoenaing this information, an insurance company interpreting the data in a way that allows it to penalize customers, or criminals intercepting the information to plan a burglary," the private nonprofit Electronic Frontier Foundation noted in a blog post about smart meters. (Related: "Pictures: The Energy Drain of Recreational Drugs"
More at the link.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2012/12/121212-smart-meter-privacy/
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)And call me paranoid (I'm fine with that) but I find the idea of random people knowing this information disturbing:
"In theory, the information collected by smart meters could reveal how many people live in a home, their daily routines, changes in those routines, what types of electronic equipment are in the home, and other details. "It's not hard to imagine a divorce lawyer subpoenaing this information, an insurance company interpreting the data in a way that allows it to penalize customers, or criminals intercepting the information to plan a burglary," the private nonprofit Electronic Frontier Foundation noted in a blog post about smart meters."
And yes, I think the NSA is wrong and I cloak my online info as much as possible. My life is my own. Want information about it? Pay me for it on my terms.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Supply and demand and the cost of generation, and also the environmental impact of that generation.
It's cheaper, for example, for utilities to get you your electrons at night when there's plenty available and they can use cheap and clean sources like wind. Plenty of wind at night.
In the hot afternoon, it's expensive and bad for the environment to have to fire up natural gas peaker plants. Thus, they need to charge.
Just like with finding fruits out of season and paying more at different times of the year, electricity has different costs and impacts throughout the 24 hour day.
Nobody at the utility cares how many people are in your home.
The only think I can imagine being a red flag would be indoor pot growers, and the cops have other ways including IR cameras and even old meter data to figure out that somethings up.
I would support, to be sure, some legislation around privacy of information, but I would not support staying with 19th century metering technology at the expense of the environment.
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)Ummm.... they might if it were profitable to know that. Or if the government decided they needed the information.
I generally agree with your stated reasoning. But if energy companies were actually interested in reducing environmental impact, there are many, many other things they could and would be doing.
NutmegYankee
(16,477 posts)I recall that the SCOTUS declared the use of IR to look into houses unconstitutional.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Actually, they would need a warrant for the evidence to be admissible but I don't think they'd shy away from using IR in an investigation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyllo_v._United_States
NutmegYankee
(16,477 posts)So the police can just sit out there with popcorn watching a couple have sex in the bedroom using the IR camera as long as they don't need to enter it into court?
SwissTony
(2,560 posts)Couldn't they just have knocked on the front door or rang up and made an appointment?
Raine
(31,173 posts)but I was never home so luckily and so far they have given up on putting it in.
David__77
(24,640 posts)I personally own and have used plenty of monitoring equipment to assess what is my true electricity consumption. I have plug load meters and other power meters to do so. The hourly data provided by my smart meter is simply, accurate! There has been plenty of testing of this equipment, and I've seen no compelling evidence that there is any significant error.
If we want to promote energy efficiency, we NEED smart meters to gather hourly data on energy consumption. This helps to design energy efficiency programs that are well-targeted, and best utilize rate payer funds. It a lot better to do this that to instead build new environmentally damaging power plants.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I also have a bunch of meters, class sets of Kill-a-Watt meters, some Watts Up meters, and various flukes and TEDs.
All of this drama over smart meters is ridiculous.
a kennedy
(35,916 posts)Our bill was 67.00 a month last year. This year it was raised to 86.00 that's 20.00 a month increase.......so I called to find out why the 20.00 jump, the woman said it's for "possible" increase in use. I said what??? a possible increase?? gave her a bit of my mind and she then changed the budget amount to 75.00 a month. I thought d*mn right, a 20.00 increase for possible increase in use my arse. 
snooper2
(30,151 posts)single pane storm windows and Texas summer...
a kennedy
(35,916 posts)was to put in double pane windows with that film in between the panes.....really cut down on the bill. Yikes.... that's a ton O' money for a bill. 
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Old meters have to be read regularly, typically once a month. That means the meter has to be outdoors where the meter reader can walk up to it. I have never seen a U.S. residence with an inside meter. Since the meter is outside, then the electric company can easily get to it and replace it. They don't have to enter the house to get to the meter.
It isn't tresspassing for their service people to walk up to the outside electric meter to service the meter.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I used to have to let these bozos in, or fill out the card and mail it back.
Now they aim a reader at the house and get the reading that way....
NutmegYankee
(16,477 posts)It depends on the area and the design of the utilities.
DiverDave
(5,245 posts)I think they better be careful, someone might get killed.
And the "oh, didnt see you there" aint gonna cut it.
Try and break into my house,, my sons aluminum baseball bat might hit you...HARD.
Just another way to steal from us.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Did you see that girl and her ill-fitting clothes.
This is as bad as the James O'Keefe fake ACORN video.
DiverDave
(5,245 posts)And in hindsight, she didint have a clipboard, or did she...shows how much I saw ty
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Smart meters are poisoning our kids and causing cancer!
Sid
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Smart Meter fear brings together folks from all parts of the political spectrum, for different reasons.
There are the well-intended folks from the left who automatically think anything from the energy industry is by default evil.
And there are the tin foil hat wearing freaks who think the radio signals will take over their minds.
And then the baggers who think that there's some sort of right to privacy around how much electricity you use and when.
To all of them I say if you don't like it then just cut off your account. Nobody is forcing you to be a customer.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Or at least, it hasn't happened recently. Well, ok, but not often. Well, frequency aside, it's not widespread... Er, uh...
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)And the NDRC, National Resources Defense Council, support smart meters but that's because they're a front for Ford Motor Company.
http://www.infowars.com/smart-meter-slavery/
Romulox
(25,960 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Funny how paranoid people are about utility companies knowing how much energy they use and when.
Funny how they don't want to participate in being conscientious consumers and citizens and stewards of the planet by participating in a program that helps them reduce load and save money.
They don't own those meters and they don't have rights to privacy any more than when they go buy a car.
Insisting on keeping analog meters is like rejecting insulation or insisting on keeping your incandescents.
http://www.treehugger.com/corporate-responsibility/tea-party-attempt-to-block-incandescent-ban-fails-to-get-enough-votes.html
I find it the most amusing effort by the RW being gobbled up hook line and sinker by the left that I've ever seen.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)If they were making a profit in the old "underestimating" environment, the new revenue should be considered windfall profit and taken from them by reducing rates.
Historic NY
(39,993 posts)if you wish. You don't own them or the meter or free power either.
My old meter was replaced after we did a new outside install to the house, my monthy budget went down. I'm using less this summer than last, considering the current was flowing w/o a meter for 3 months too. It took the utility company that long to come put in a new meter in the pan. For several weeks here, I never shut off my a/c this year.
People that complain about utility bills should move towards a budget plan, in the end each year I end up with a month or two with no bill or a very low bill.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Also, every few seconds they send out a short RF signal that can be picked up by a passing utility worker in all types of weather, rather than the worker have to walked through gates and yards and face dogs and snow, to get a reading.
Further, for people with solar energy systems, these meters can run backwards.
Because we, as a society, are smart enough to know that we're going to have to be more efficient and use tools to get there, utility companies everywhere are replacing old inaccurate meters with smart meters.
Part of being green and lean means giving customers tools to monitor their own energy use, and smart meters allow for this.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)I get a report that looks like yours and I can compare my usage to other users.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It's a pretty typical pattern, reflective of the system demand profile which you can see at the California Independent System Operator Website:
Be sure to check this out! 
http://www.caiso.com/Pages/TodaysOutlook.aspx
And here's my graph, it's been hot.
