Who is responsible for the chemical attacks in Syria?

[ProSense]

Fact: There were chemical attacks in Syria. That isn't being disputed. Who do you believe is responsible?

10 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	The Assad government
	4 (40%)
	A rebel force
	1 (10%)
	Not sure
	5 (50%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[MelungeonWoman]

1. No button for Cheney?

[NYC_SKP]

2. Going out on a limb based on rumors that it was an accidental release by rebels.

Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

[Tx4obama]

9. I read the articles on DU from the Right-wing sites - those rumors?

If you're talking about the articles/rumors from the examiner.com and the mintpressnews.com - neither one of those two are reputable sources/websites.

[NYC_SKP]

16. I wouldn't use them as references. You have to admit, though, it would be an interesting twist.

And get us off the hook.

But no, I don't recommend those sources.

[Taverner]

28. It's starting to show up in Reuters...

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

3. Who do you believe is responsible, PS?

[ProSense]

4. Assad. You? n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

6. Not sure yet.

[Junkdrawer]

5. Voted "A rebel force", but not nearly 100% sure....

But the evidence is sure pointing that way....

People need to know just how deeply divided the anti-Assad forces are.

[Tx4obama]

13. What evidence would that be?

[leveymg]

7. Apparently, the Syrian Defense Minister was out of the loop, if it was the gov't, he didn't

get the memo about the attack.

Depends upon how you define "government."

[David__77]

8. That's a long limb to go out on.

I don't know. It also doesn't really impact what I think the US course should be - non-intervention.

[Coyotl]

10. Where are the buttons for the Saudis and Al Qaeda

And perhaps the Saudis aiding Al Qaeda

[Tx4obama]

11. One of the attacks w/ the napalm type chemical that BURNT folks was dropped from a FIGHTER JET

The rebels do not have fighter jets - but Assad does.

Caution: Graphic images

Video of some of the people that Assad's napalm type chemical burnt: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-23892594

[Blue_In_AK]

12. I don't think there's any way for us to know for sure at this point.

In this crazy world, who do you trust?

[mia]

14. Follow the money.

Those responsible stand to benefit. I don't know who they are.

[Savannahmann]

15. Correction

Fact: There were chemical attacks in Syria. That isn't being disputed. Who do you believe is responsible?

Facts appear to be that roughly 1,400 people including women and children died. We are not yet certain that it was an attack by Chemical Weapons, like nerve agents be it Sarin, or VX class weapons. That is the conclusion of people who haven't been there, and are operating on symptomatic evidence.

There are other possibilities that will be eliminated with laboratory testing by the UN. Alternatives include some sort of accident which is not being considered like the Bhopal Disaster. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster

Because if we rush, we're certain to make some mistakes. Like the famed Operation Infinite Reach which bombed a factory our Intelligence People swore up and down was making Chemical Weapons in the Sudan. Turns out to have been a factory cranking out chemicals all right, Aspirin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise_missile_strikes_on_Afghanistan_and_Sudan_(August_1998) Or worse another Iraq Intelligence pile of Bullshit.

So let's wait and see what the UN Labs in Europe turn up as the actual evidence of what the facts may be shall we? We're told that those results will be back with the full report in two weeks. Are we saying that our mighty mailed fist of vengeance can't be stayed for two lousy weeks while we confirm our information?

So the facts are that it is reported that 1,400 people died, and it is suspected that Chemical Weapons were used. We have little direct evidence of what weapon if any was used.

Many people thought that this event was a Chemical Weapons attack as well. http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/gas-cloud-kills-cameroon-villagers

That was a natural event, a tragic and horrific event, but a naturally occurring event none the less.

BTW. I am not saying that Syrian victims were not attacked with Chemical Weapons. I am saying that we don't know what the facts are, and apparently our Government is in no hurry to find out.

[ProSense]

17. Amnesty International on use of chemical weapons in Syria

Amnesty International on use of chemical weapons in Syria
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023555922

The UN will issue its report in a few weeks, but they have gathered the evidence.

U.N. experts prepare to leave Syria, chemical probe needs time
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/30/us-syria-crisis-us-idUSBRE97T0P120130830

[Savannahmann]

18. I read the Amnesty International Report.

Allow me to quote part of what you quoted.

Amnesty International has gathered information from survivors of the chemical weapons attack believed to have taken place in the Eastern Ghouta region, east of the capital Damascus, on 21 August, as well as doctors who examined those killed and treated those affected by the contamination. We have also shared this and other information about the alleged chemical release with specialists in chemical agents. Based on this research and the analysis by specialists, Amnesty International believes that it is highly likely that chemical agents contaminated several neighbourhoods in the adjacent towns of Zamalka and Ain Tarma in Eastern Ghouta.

They have no first hand information. They are answering the questions based upon reports. Because the lack of first hand knowledge which they admit, they use words like appears, likely, probable, and other words that stop short of the definitive word fact.

Fact is an undeniable piece of evidence. Truth is the story that links those pieces of evidence. Fact, Dinosaur bones have been recovered. Therefor the truth is that dinosaurs once existed. Do you see what I mean? Now for the lunatic fringe, the Fact of Dinosaur bones being found, is coupled with the fact of dinosaurs not being in the Bible, so their truth is that the bones were planted by Satan to fool us. At least you can agree with them on the fact that the Dinosaur bones were found, even if we can't agree on the truth drawn from it.

To repeat, I am not saying that the chemical warfare attack did not happen. I am saying we don't have the facts, and you supported my contention that the report would be available in two weeks.

He was addressing reporters while U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon was meeting with delegates from the five permanent U.N. Security Council members - Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States - to update them on the U.N. investigation in Syria. Envoys from the five countries gave no details of the meeting to reporters after it ended.

But two diplomats told Reuters that Ban informed the five delegations that analysis of the samples could take up to two weeks.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/08/30/syria-crisis-us-idINDEE97T0FI20130830

The testing and identification of the gathered samples will allow investigators to present the evidence so we can conclude what happened with far more accuracy than we think, we believe, we consider it highly likely. Before we go to war, and start dropping bombs, shouldn't we know with as much certainty as is possible?

[ProSense]

19. Here's is

"The testing and identification of the gathered samples will allow investigators to present the evidence so we can conclude what happened with far more accuracy than we think, we believe, we consider it highly likely. Before we go to war, and start dropping bombs, shouldn't we know with as much certainty as is possible? "

...what we do know: The information Amnesty gathered, the victims doctors examined (including DWB http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/press/release.cfm?id=7029&cat=press-release), and the casualties all represent evidence.

[MFrohike]

20. Um

"Due to significant security risks, MSF staff members have not been able to access the facilities.

“Medical staff working in these facilities provided detailed information to MSF doctors regarding large numbers of patients arriving with symptoms including convulsions, excess saliva, pinpoint pupils, blurred vision and respiratory distress,” said Dr. Bart Janssens, MSF director of operations."

Taken from the link you provided.

[ProSense]

22. Um, what? n/t

[MFrohike]

23. Thought it was self-evident

MSF examined no patients in this case. Your post with the link claims the opposite.

[Savannahmann]

25. I wish you'd read your own links.

Doctors without borders did not examine the victims. From your link.

Since 2012, MSF has built a strong and reliable collaboration with medical networks, hospitals and medical points in the Damascus governorate, and has been providing them with drugs, medical equipment and technical support. Due to significant security risks, MSF staff members have not been able to access the facilities. - See more at: http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/press/release.cfm?id=7029&cat=press-release#sthash.8WDqsTjV.dpuf

So what is DWB's conclusion?

“MSF can neither scientifically confirm the cause of these symptoms nor establish who is responsible for the attack,” said Dr. Janssens. “However, the reported symptoms of the patients, in addition to the epidemiological pattern of the events—characterized by the massive influx of patients in a short period of time, the origin of the patients, and the contamination of medical and first aid workers—strongly indicate mass exposure to a neurotoxic agent. This would constitute a violation of international humanitarian law, which absolutely prohibits the use of chemical and biological weapons.” - See more at: http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/press/release.cfm?id=7029&cat=press-release#sthash.8WDqsTjV.dpuf

Again, we believe, we suspect, but we don't KNOW.

This would go a lot easier if you'd read the links. Because nobody KNOWS yet. We don't have the samples to the laboratory yet, much less tested. Because the patients reacted to the treatment of Atropine is not conclusive evidence. Atropine is used in Emergency rooms on patients with low heart rates. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atropine

Do you really want to keep this up? The final conclusion is exactly the same as I began with.

It is PROBABLE that there was a Chemical Weapons attack. It is not DEFINATE that there was. The way to confirm that it is DEFINITE is to gather the evidence first hand, conduct the tests on the samples, and then we will know the facts. Once we know more of the facts, we can then consider courses of action. Perhaps we'll stumble across one that doesn't seem asinine or impotent as all those suggested so far have been.

[geek tragedy]

21. Irrelevant.

Not like we can remedy the situation anyways.

[ProSense]

24. No, it will not be "irrelevant."

The U.N. is also going to report its findings.

[geek tragedy]

30. It won't change the fundamental dynamics there.

Neither will anything we do in response.

[hrmjustin]

26. I believe it is the governments doing. I take our President at his word.

That does not mean I support the action or that I don't want people asking questions.

[SwampG8r]

27. i say not sure

and not sure is not good enough for another war
its time we stopped trying to force everyone else to act humane and concentrated on our failing infrastructure
bankrupt cities broken soldiers and closed schools
its time to stop spending our money on other countries whether its to blow them the hell down or to rebuild them after we blow them the hell down
there is no upside for the us in this there never has been
the more we do the more we try the more we push
the more they hate us
they thrive on hate and we feed them by giving them a faraway ace and place to hate
let them hate their neighbors for a while and let their neighbors learn to hate them back
lets see how they fare against the Chinese and the Russians for a while
someone close enough to really hate them back
it seems to be the only politics the middle east understands

[HooptieWagon]

29. Who is responsible for drone attacks on civilians? nt