I'm surprised to see few threads questioning the MOTIVE behind an attack on Syria.

[Barack_America]

And so many threads trying to convince others that the rebels/terrorists had the ability to pull off a chemical weapons attack on the scale of what we saw on Aug. 21.

I say, as US citizens, let's take our administration at their word that they got wind days ahead of time that Assad was planning a chemical weapons attack...and question why they did nothing to stop it. That's a greater source of outrage, IMO. They knew it was coming and almost salivated over their good fortune. Rather than trying to stop the damned thing from happening, they focused their efforts on mapping out how to capitalize after it had.

US intelligence sources clearly knew where the chemical weapons were being stored, as they watched increased activity at these sites in the days preceding the attack. They then intercepted communications indicating that an attack was imminent. Say, wouldn't this have been an opportune time to move those cruise missiles a little closer? And perhaps publicly warn Assad that we know what the hell you are up to, and these will be the consequences if you go through with it? Or maybe even just a little warning to the Syrian people themselves?

It seems to me that's what they *might* have done, if the intelligence they've released is actually true -and- if the goal of these proposed strikes is really focused on preventing future use of chemical weapons.

I think there is plenty to be cynical about with regards to the US's sudden interest in Syria. I'm just not sure focusing on the "who done it" really gets to the meat of it.

[gopiscrap]

1. why it's oil, power and money

[KittyWampus]

3. It's the - oil, pipeline, power, money, penis size, tribalism, revenge, deep sea ports...

[gopiscrap]

4. yup

[soryang]

2. take the administration at its word?

that's hilarious.

[Barack_America]

8. I don't think you get what I mean by that.

Often times the best way to expose a lie is to assume that you're being told the truth and proceed to dismantle the argument from there.

In their rush to present "proof", the administration flat out told us they got wind of an attack and did nothing to stop it. That's pretty damning to their cause of caring about chemical weapons use.

[soryang]

10. spin it however you like n/t

[Barack_America]

13. As you have. Nt

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

29. Excellent point...

... they need to explain why they wouldn't have tried to stop it and save lives by diplomatic or other means rather than wait until after the fact.

I'd really like to hear that explanation.

[PADemD]

5. Not sudden interest, long-term plan

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023568587

[dionysus]

6. if they found out before it happened and did some kind of strike to stop it,

people here would still be saying "it was bullshit\no proof\warmonger" ect.

[KittyWampus]

7. So you would believe the Obama Administratio if they did a PRE-EMPTIVE strike in a Syrian Civil War?

There are so many ways to take your OP.

But you seem to be saying that you would accept their word they had intelligence indicating an imminent chemical attack on civilians in Syria and approved them pre-emptively bombing Assad's forces there.

I really hope the OP re-reads what was posted and thinks it through.

[Barack_America]

11. Re-read the OP.

I did not advocate preemptively attacking Syria. I advocated publicly airing the evidence and showing a bit of bluster to try to prevent an attack.

[KittyWampus]

12. And in "airing the intelligence" you don't think that would automatically out intelligence sources?

[Barack_America]

14. No more than it has now.

Same intelligence that was released this week, just issued 2 weeks earlier.

[Smarmie Doofus]

9. This hadn't occurred to me:

>>> They knew it was coming and almost salivated over their good fortune. Rather than trying to stop the damned thing from happening, they focused their efforts on mapping out how to capitalize after it had. >>>>

Let's face it though: certain elements in US govt and elsewhere have been wishing and hoping beyond hope that chemical weapons would be used by Assad. It's the ONLY way they could have brought the US into the war.

Maybe they did more than hope. Is it beyond the realm to think that elements of Syrian military/govt are working both sides?

[The Straight Story]

24. It was claimed they were used before, including last year

A Timeline Of Chemical Weapon Allegations In Syria

http://www.neontommy.com/news/2013/08/timeline-chemical-weapon-reports-syria

[pnwmom]

15. They said they had "collected streams" of intelligence in the few days beforehand.

That doesn't mean that they had translated and analyzed all those streams.

We don't know how much they learned ahead of time and how much they figured out afterwards, going through previously collected communications. (As happened after the Boston bombing.)

[Barack_America]

17. With all of the money we're spending on intelligence...

I hope to God that our people "listening in" are at least fluent in the languages they are intercepting.

And watching increased activity at known chemical weapons depots doesn't really require much translation.

One question I'd like to know is, that extra ship that stayed behind, when did its deployment actually end (ie was it already sticking around before the attacks?)

[pnwmom]

18. Did you read Snowden's most recent releases in the WP?

Most analysts were surprised by how little we've actually been spending.

[DevonRex]

26. You're showing your complete ignorance of the subject of EW SIGINT

Voice intercept and analysis. The type intercept necessary for that mission would be a tactical operation. Military intelligence. Which is why Israel's MI unit is the one who got the intercept.

Yes, the linguists are fluent.

Do you think any commander, in any language, actually says, "Get ready to use chemical weapons now! Load chemical canisters! Fire at the children now!!!"

[Barack_America]

27. See post #25. Thanks.

[jakeXT]

31. It seems they are trying to sell it in the UK

In one heated exchange, a regional commander was overheard demanding the captain of an artillery battery in a Government-held suburb of Damascus to fire chemical shells.

When the officer protested, he was told “in direct terms” that failure to comply would result in him facing a firing squad, and the chemical weapons were then fired.

...

Last night the senior RAF officer said: “The commander of the artillery battery told the regional commander that he would not comply and there was a heated exchange. He was told in direct language that unless the order was carried out, he would be shot. A total of 27 chemical artillery shells were then fired at the suburb in a 14-minute period.”

The conversation was monitored and recorded by British officers based at the remote mountain-top RAF Troodos Signals Intelligence listening post in Cyprus and within minutes details of the conversation had been relayed to GCHQ, Whitehall and the Pentagon.

...

Last night senior Ministry of Defence sources confirmed that the Prime Minister was aware of several intercepts that had been picked up by nuclear submarine HMS Tireless, by RAF spy planes and by the Troodos listening station but they said the messages were initially treated with “caution” by analysts, who feared they might be fakes “planted” by rebels desperate for Western military support.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/425981/Senior-Syrian-military-chiefs-tell-captain-fire-chemicals-or-be-shot

[DevonRex]

32. As part of UKUSA, Britain is tasked with that part of the world.

It has Africa, European Russia and Europe.

[jakeXT]

34. And their analysts have doubts, I thought our intel came from Isreal

The initial confirmation that the regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad was responsible for a suspected chemical weapons attack Aug. 21 came from a tip from the Israeli intelligence service, western intelligence sources tell Fox News.

A special unit of the Israeli Defense Force -- an intelligence unit that goes by the number 8200, which is a military intelligence listening unit -- has been cooperating with the NSA, sources tell Fox News.

This Israeli intelligence unit helped provide the intelligence intercepts that allowed the White House last weekend to conclude that the Assad regime was behind the attack.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/28/israeli-intelligence-first-confirmed-assad-regime-behind-alleged-chemical/

[DevonRex]

36. Their analysts had doubts in the beginning. That's normal.

You always doubt something like this in the beginning. I would have put money on it being a plant if that was said unencrypted. A lot of money.

But then it happened. And then a look at the SATINT verified the troop movements and equipment movements and the artillery shells being moved from storage by Syrian forces.

So, what we have is Syria wanting everyone to know they did it. Assad isn't Kim Jong Un batshit. So, he has a reason. He owes somebody something. Who? Putin.

Putin is testing alliances after the Snowden leaks (his operation BTW). And it looks like the leaks did their job. Now would be a good time for Putin to ship Iran what it needs for its nuclear program plus a few "energy consultants."

[HooptieWagon]

16. I think US is being played again by Bandar Bush.

Saudis want their pipeline. And whenever Bandar Bush is involved, US gets screwed into doing Saudi's bidding.

[DevonRex]

19. Stop spreading the propaganda bullshit that the US knew

there was going to be a chemical attack beforehand.

After an incident like this happens, they put all the intelligence that had been collected together and look for indications leading up to the attack. That's all the satellite photos, the communications intercept, the human intelligence, etc.

They do not have automatic real-time analysis of every bit of intelligence, all put together, on every hot spot in the world. And, the highest priority is given to the areas in which the US is directly involved. We are not unlimited in manpower, you know. Or satellites.

[Barack_America]

21. Maybe, maybe not.

They came out with their case pretty damned quickly after the attack.

And if you read the released intelligence and take it literally, it certainly sounds like there was intelligence beforehand.

For the record, I am firmly in the "something should be done camp". I just developed a disappointing sinking feeling when I read that brief.

Regardless, I think it's necessary to release a bit more detail on the intelligence they gathered. There's also the very real possibility that much of the intelligence was gathered by sources who decided not to pass it on until later *cough*Israel. And, even if the CIA or Pentagon got wind of it, I think we have plenty of instances where they have not been exactly forthcoming with Democratic administrations.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

20. "I say, as US citizens, let's take our administration at their word..."

Were you so eager when the last Administration rushed us into war?

[Barack_America]

22. "...to hang their argument."

In case my intent with that phrase was not obvious from the rest of the OP.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

30. Okay.

I do not follow any administration blindly.

The Obama Admin can "hang their argument". but they better do it with more than an impassioned plea at the UN.
I want clear irrefutable proof.

[BlueStreak]

23. Lots of different motives. The players don't line up as predictably as usual

Obama wanted to get Snowden and the NSA off the front pages, and he accomplished that.

Israel wanted to get the pressure off peace talks. That happened, whether or not Israel had a role in any of this. They also want to make sure that they can maintain military supremacy in the region, which is why they have been pushing Obama behind the scenes to get tough with Syria.

McCain and his lap dog Graham like the sound of any war any time for any reason, so they are predictable enough.

It isn't so clear where the teabaggers come down. Normally they would be for any invasion of any country full of dark-skinned people, but that would mean being on the same side as Obama. They are really conflicted.

Likewise, Democrats should naturally want to question anything that sounds like even slightly dodgy arguments for getting into yet another war. But they also want to support Obama. So they are conflicted too.

[Barack_America]

25. If intelligence was pocketed, I'd look to Israel first...

...then I'd look to the MIC *ahem* I mean, Pentagon/CIA

It'd take me a while to consider Obama waiting around for civilians to get gassed for his own personal gain.

But the speed with which intelligence was neatly bundled and presented to our allies makes me suspicious that someone was collecting it before the attack. And that someone, whoever they may be, clearly could give a shit less about the citizens of Syria.

[BlueStreak]

28. There have been charges of gassing for a long time

Obama has been extremely careful to avoid going anywhere near Syria ever since the start of the civil war. But then he seemed to do a 180 about a month ago.

Why the sudden change?

Don't tell me it was because of the humanitarian thing. There have already been 100,000 killed and millions forced to flee the country. That wasn't enough to act.

Obama would have us believe that it is all about the principle of not using chemical weapons. OK, that is a possibility, but this is not the first time that Syria has been accused of using chemical weapons.

What is different now?

It seems clear to me that the desire to stop the questions into the NSA are at the forefront. Before he went into the full court press for an attack on Syria, he tried two weeks of generic sabre rattling to try to scare Americans into asking no further questions about the NSA. That failed because the horrible revelation just kept coming. So he said, "What would Dick Cheney do?" And here we are.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

35. And you may recall...

... the neatly bundled "19 Arab hijackers with box cutters" FBI presentation, complete with photographs, came within a mere 48 hours after 9-11, some of whom actually turned out to be alive and well. Gee, nice work fellas.

US media never batted an eye.

[gulliver]

33. LIHOP, old buddy!

Where have you been? Still a stringbean, I see! You old coot!