Greenwald's bombshell news continue

[David Krout]

NSA spied on the Brazilian President and the Mexican President (the latter shortly before he was elected).


http://news.yahoo.com/us-spied-brazil-mexico-presidents-report-071045395.html;_ylt=A2KJjammPSRS8CMA9VHQtDMD

[MADem]

1. Gee, how shocking... not.

I'll bet the Russian or Chinese "Edward Snowden"--should one come to the fore--would tell us the same damn thing. Nations spy on one another.

[whatchamacallit]

3. Yet, nothing enrages a neodem like US state secrets spied and exposed

Ironic.

[Cali_Democrat]

4. I don't really think it's a secret that the US spies on foreign countries and their leaders

Bombshell?

Not so much.

[David Krout]

6. Were you aware that the NSA was spying on these individuals?

Honest answer.

[Cali_Democrat]

7. It has always been my assumption that the NSA and CIA spy on most other countries

Especially countries like Mexico whose drug war directly impacts the United States.

In fact, it would be a shock and a "bombshell" to me if they didn't.

[sabrina 1]

10. Well, you're not the president of Mexico or Brazil. It looks like they are not too pleased

about it.

Do you think Brazil is spying on the US President and if so, is that okay also?

[Cali_Democrat]

15. Of course they have to act outraged for their public. These are elected officials.

You expect them to tell their people they don't care about it? They have to act outraged publicly, but privately they already knew it was happening.

The US has a fast-growing trade relationship with Brazil and Mexico's drug war has ramifications for the United States. It would actually surprise me if the US didn't spy on those countries.

The US is also target of foreign intelligence services and that's no secret.

Is espionage okay? Well that's for individuals to decide for themselves.

Countries have engaged in espionage for centuries and it ain't gonna stop now just because Snowden and Greenwald revealed that spy agencies spy.

[cantbeserious]

105. So All Outrage Is Artificial Outrage - Well I Guess That Obama Does Not Need To Start A War Then

eom

[gholtron]

17. I wonder if Greenwald will report what countries are spying

On the the US? I guess Greenwald is getting lonely. He wants people to pay attention to him. He needs this book deal really bad.

[David Krout]

22. Spying on Obama's emails?

Break that news for us please. Who is reading his emails?

[sabrina 1]

30. If someone leaks information to him I am sure he will. Just as Wikileaks

used the leaked material they received to expose corruption in all the countries where it was proven by the leaks, including Russia, Saudi Arabia, China (they were not too happy about the leaks either). That's what journalism is about. It is not supposed to just publish Government approved 'messages' as our Corporat Media does.

[arely staircase]

94. I would like to see a Greenwald expose on

[rhett o rick]

84. You are wasting your keystrokes. They will blindly follow Clapper, Mueller, Alexander,

Comey and the rest, right off the cliff.

[sabrina 1]

85. I know. Who would ever have thought that the 'left' would be so enamoured of

all these Republicans, many of them, like Clapper, total Bush loyalists?

But we did need to see this all unfold and can now make much more informed decisions as a people. So I have no regrets. We were so naive, and that is how they were able to take advantage. Not any more.

[RetroLounge]

88. Shocking, except these are the same posters who take every "right" position

RL

[sabrina 1]

91. Yes, we now know what has to be done to save the Democratic Party from

a complete takeover by the 'right of center' Reagan Republicans/Democrats and I am actually glad that we are now far less naive than we used to be.

No more votes for 'Blue Dogs' or 'DLC/Third Way candidates. No falling for 'progressives can't get elected in this district' rhetoric. It's up to us now that we have witnessed the exposure of what has been going on for quite some time, and was a source of puzzlement to most of us, until now.

Knowledge is power. Let them try to 'win' without the 'hated Left'. I want to see that.

[RetroLounge]

93. It's a big bus, but gonna get awful lonely when the only ones NOT under it

are their fellow BOGers.

RL

[rhett o rick]

99. I dont call any of "them" the left. They are the new conservative Democrats.

They call themselves pragmatic, but in my opinion, they are just typical conservative cowards that dont want to be associated with the Republican Party.

What is your opinion of the "lesser of evils" theory that has screwed us in the last 30 years. And what can we do about it?

[vaberella]

89. I love ridiculous indignant outrage. When they probably do the same. n./t

[sabrina 1]

92. 'Probably' isn't much of a defense. Do you have anything, as Greenwald has, to show

that Mexico's and Brazil's Intel has been reading President Obama's personal emails?

I'll check back later for the info.

Btw, are you okay with our allies spying on our President's private correspondence?

[vaberella]

112. Sadly no.

But it would seem that Mexico and Brazil do not have a whistleblowers who would do what our people have done.

[Number23]

97. This thread has a strong whiff of Fail about it.

I love how it's the same know nothings up in arms about this as they are everything else. That the NSA/CIA spy on other countries is a shock or scandal to anyone is the ONLY thing surprising in this thread.

[MineralMan]

19. That is the NSA's stated mission. It keeps an eye on

every country that has any significance in any area. It does that by monitoring electronic communications. That's what it has always done. It monitors military, political, and every other important area, so we'll know what is going on and be able to predict what may happen in the future.

Every nation does this, to the extent of its capabilities.

[Comrade Grumpy]

8. Well, Brazil is recalling its ambassador, and it's on the front pages of Mexican newspapers.

They seem to find it of some interest.

[Cali_Democrat]

11. Of course the media in those countries find it of interest

But in all honestly, I'm sure even the Brazilian and Mexican governments both know they are targets of US espionage, especially Mexico.

Publicly they have to act outraged, but privately they already knew it was happening.

It is the job of the CIA and NSA to collect intelligence on foreign countries and they've been doing it for decades.

[David Krout]

18. They are pretending not to like their emails read!

Tell us more.

[MADem]

47. I should hope so, considering Kerry discussed this w/Brazil over two weeks ago.

They didn't like it then, either--but it's funny that some people are regarding this as "news."

It's like saying "Guess what? The Red Sox won!!! Two weeks ago..!"

It's all because Greenwald went on Brazilian TV, touting his latest dribets, and whipping the media into a frenzy -- or trying to do that.

No doubt those nations are ALSO brokering the information they obtain with other nations, as well. It's all part of the game. It's World War One out there on the Internet. Better the internet than hardware and weaponry in our respective neighborhoods.....

[Cha]

55. Ya think?

Bob Cesca @bobcesca_go

Repackaging common knowledge using scary words seems to be Greenwald's entire career right now.7:54 PM - 1 Sep 2013

30 Retweets 12 favorites ReplyRetweet

http://theobamadiary.com/2013/09/02/a-tweet-or-two/

A career bolstered by those who report is a BFD NEWS!!!1111!

[MADem]

58. What it is!!! +1000! nt

[Cha]

60. Bombshell!!!!1111

[randome]

77. Sums it up perfectly!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Tarheel_Dem]

82. +1. "Repackaging" is right.

[SidDithers]

83. Nailed it...

wish I could rec a post.

Sid

[Number23]

98. As always, Cesca nails it.

[sheshe2]

104. Bingo!

Love Bob Cesca.

[David Krout]

14. If only they had consulted with Cali_Democrat

He knew!

[Cali_Democrat]

16. Yes. I did know that the CIA and NSA spy on foreign countries

Shocking, isn't it?

[David Krout]

21. Why don't you like to use the word "Presidents"?

You don't have to say "countries".

[gholtron]

20. Greenwald is trying to sell books.

He is relying on people like you to be outraged over this non bomb shell news. The interest is fading bad and so is potential book sells.

[sabrina 1]

33. No, the interest is far from fading unless you want it to be that way.

The issue is that the US is spying on its own citizens and that issue will not fade until it is properly addressed. In the meantime, Verizon customers, such as me, have cancelled their service and several lawsuits have been filed against the perpetrators of these anti-Constitutional practices.

[Why Syzygy]

44. Google and Microsoft

have filed suit.

http://www.popularresistance.org/microsoft-google-proceed-with-nsa-lawsuit/

[sabrina 1]

75. The Civil Liberties Union also and I imagine there will be class action suits from

Verizon customers who are not too happy about being spied on.

Thanks for the link.

[whatchamacallit]

23. I see... Spying = A-OK

unless you're Assange or Snowden.

[MADem]

52. If they'd gotten 'em with a simple hack, we'd have to play "fair game."

But they got 'em by turning an NSA analyst, encouraging him to collect materials (by imitating senior NSA leaders and stealing their passwords) and to defect, and holding him incommunicado in a location remote from Moscow. They scooped him up in Hong Kong, provided him with a "lawyer" (cough) who just happens to be a close friend of Pootie's, AND a former KGB operative, and they have orchestrated his every move and pronouncement.

If that's "freedom" I'm an astronaut. Snowden was flipped, for whatever motivations, pecuniary or noble, and now he's not just flipped, he's fucked.

I guess we're back to "Old School" techniques, with a HUMINT emphasis now married to the hacking fun.

[whatchamacallit]

71. Ha, such bullshit

Two things -

1) You don't know Snowden was "flipped"

2) Only a moron would claim the US doesn't flip individuals with access to classified material.

[DevonRex]

66. What secret? It's in Wikipedia for god's sake.

Now, exposing spies' names? Yeah, I have a huge problem with that. Huge. It gets them killed.

[KittyWampus]

5. One wonders why Assange never released the files he had on Russia.

[sabrina 1]

13. Lol, one wouldn't wonder if one were in possession of the facts:

WikiLeaks cables condemn Russia as 'mafia state'

Russia is a corrupt, autocratic kleptocracy centred on the leadership of Vladimir Putin, in which officials, oligarchs and organised crime are bound together to create a "virtual mafia state", according to leaked secret diplomatic cables that provide a damning American assessment of its erstwhile rival superpower.

Arms trafficking, money laundering, personal enrichment, protection for gangsters, extortion and kickbacks, suitcases full of money and secret offshore bank accounts in Cyprus: the cables paint a bleak picture of a political system in which bribery alone totals an estimated $300bn a year, and in which it is often hard to distinguish between the activities of the government and organised crime.

Among the most striking allegations contained in the cables, which were leaked to the whistleblowers' website WikiLeaks, are:

• Russian spies use senior mafia bosses to carry out criminal operations such as arms trafficking.

Wikileaks, contrary to US propaganda, is an equal opportunity multi-award winning News Orgs mainly BECAUSE they spare no government from criticism or leaks that demonstrate corruption.

Seriously, you should do more research before posting opinions which appear to be based on the Corporate Media's 'news' which everyone knows is most unreliable on these issues.

[Cali_Democrat]

106. Those are classified American diplomatic cables, not Russian

Those are American cables which describe Russia.

That isn't classified Russian information.

[sabrina 1]

108. Yes, and Wikileaks didn't try to hide them in order to protect Russia, as you implied.

You asked why they had not bashed Russia? They did.

As for not having posted Info directly from Russia, they will, when a Whistle Blower provides it.

What's funny about your attempt to try to attack Wikileaks without having any idea of their history, is that for years people were asking them the same thing about the US. They had not posted any info on the US and were being accused of being a US run operation, among things.

Their answer which turned out to be true, 'we have not received any leaks on the US, if we do, we will do what we have done with all the other countries on which we have received leaks.

[Cali_Democrat]

109. My post attacked wikileaks?

I never asked why they had not bashed Russia and I never accused them of hiding docs.

Who on earth are you trying to reply to? Clearly it couldn't have been my last reply in this thread.

[Iliyah]

24. KittyWampus - simple answer

he would be DEAD, done, zippoo, no more.

[sabrina 1]

36. Well, considering he DID release leaks on Russia and he's still alive that would

make your predictions wrong.

See my above post, for FACTS about Wikileaks and Russia, unless you are not interested of course.

[JDPriestly]

26. Tell that to the leaders of Mexico and Brazil.

They may spy, but I doubt that they are reading Obama's e-mails or that they were reading them before he was elected. And I'm almost certain that neither the leader of Brazil or of Mexico spies on Obama's internet website tastes.

How utterly disgusting.

It may be done but it is offensive and if it is being done to Americans, it violates the spirit of the Constitution. It is a horrible thing to do. Watching a person's internet searches is like peering into their cabinet drawers and pulling out all the contents. It's what sick perverts do. It isn't what nations should be doing.

This is the STASI times millions all over again.

I raised two teenaged daughters to be wonderful, productive adults. I never snooped in their drawers. I never read their diaries or their personal letters. If you trust people, they will respond to your trust by being trustworthy.

No wonder the world is in such a mess. If our government is the leader, and we snoop on those we are supposedly leading, we must have very little confidence in the moral rectitude of our leadership. And rightfully so. This snooping is sick and perverted.

[Iliyah]

37. Our world has been a mess since the beginning

of time and we have survived somewhat. Mankind has never trusted each other and snooping on Pres O is in full effect as well as other politicians, leaders, even corporations and media and oh my gosh the American public. Does that make it right, umm no not in my opinion and I wish it was not done. The Patriotic Act with all its trimmings be it legal or not is here to stay as the world technology become more and more advance. Will it make us safer, I dunno.

At this point in time what GG and Snowden are releasing is old news and not shocking at all. Now if they reveal what the leaders are discussing and plotting now that will raise eyebrows.

[MADem]

40. Not for lack of desire--you can be sure of that.

You may think it is "utterly disgusting" but if you think the good soldiers stationed at PLA 61398 are manufacturing toys for Walmart or knitting cut-rate polyester sweaters, I have a bridge to sell you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/20/world/asia/chinese-hackers-resume-attacks-on-us-targets.html?pagewanted=all

This is a different world, and hacking is the new battlefield. Knowledge IS power and that genie ain't going back in the bottle--get used to it. It is the new paradigm.

No one will "respond to your trust by being trustworthy." They'll do what Putin does, turn your analysts, laugh their asses off, and rub your nose in it.

And they play the game, too: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/22/net-us-russia-cybercrime-idUSBRE97L0TP20130822

You don't want to be spied upon? Get off the net. It's no fun, but that's the only solution at this point in time. Either that, or operate knowing the risk.

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/magazine/15-09/ff_estonia?currentPage=all

[JDPriestly]

113. Get off the net. Leave the front lawns of the parks and city halls.

And your house is too small to meet with more than a few friends.

That is how democracy is being squashed and outlawed in our country.

The homes of most of us in the 99% are too small and humble to permit us to entertain more than family and friends at one time.

We are not allowed to congregate in public places for long enough to organize a movement.

And the government watches us when we communicate on the internet ever ready to infiltrate any kind of movement, no matter how peaceful, no matter how democratic, no matter how utterly harmless it is.

This is the trend in many countries in the world, I am sure. Just read an article on censorship in China tonight. And the gist of the article was that speech itself is not repressed as long as it does not present the possibility that people might congregate or meet or demonstrate.

Sorry. But we need a free internet, free from surveillance.

And we need privacy laws that protect our words and the thoughts that we express with them from any surveillance performed without our personal consent, whether by private or public entities.

Our very future as a nation and a world depend on freedom of thought and expression, on creativity. And surveillance destroys creativity.

I would suggest that anyone who doubts my words read the book, Wild Swans, Three Daughters of China. In it the author describes the devastating effect that the accusations and paranoia of the Communists under Mao, particularly during the period in which Madame Mao held great influence, had on creativity, problem solving and the functioning of society in China post WWII.

China did not have the means to watch its people that are available in this age of the internet. But it managed through requiring and rewarding spying and reporting on neighbors to create quite a terror regime. The more spying and accusing, the poorer China became.

Excessive spying leads to suspicion, blame and paranoia. In turn, those feelings paralyze citizens and prevent the emotions and values that are necessary for a functioning society such as trust, confidence and hope. We need to be realistic, not paranoid or fearful. But that is difficult when over and over our worst fears, our fantasies of Big Brother are admitted to be true.

We need trust to overcome difficulty. That cannot exist in an atmosphere of surveillance. Everyone begins after a time to watch their speech. The society itself becomes dishonest. This happens in every dictatorship. Read the history. The lessons are clear.

Surveillance forces discontent to be hidden. And the discontent then manifests itself in very destructive behavior. That is not a wish on my part. That is an observation. Just read the history and watch the people and society around you.

For example, when homosexuality and abortion (even for medical reasons) were prohibited, people did not admit to that kind of behavior. We saw what that lead to: deaths from AIDs among homosexuals and deaths from illegal abortions among women.

There are many, many examples of behavior or speech that are prohibited for no good reason that result in people continuing the behavior but in secret, and often to harm of themselves and others around them.

Surveillance discourages openness and honesty. That is why tyrants love it so much.

Sorry, but do a cost-benefit analysis. The small benefit that a government or business gains from surveillance is far outweighed by the costs, the detriment to individuals and society.

[Why Syzygy]

46. Gentlemen don't read each other's mail.

He served as Secretary of State under President Herbert Hoover from 1929 to 1933. In 1929 he shut down the State Department's cryptanalytic office saying, "Gentlemen don't read each other's mail." (He later reversed this attitude.)

http://ww2db.com/person_bio.php?person_id=488

[DevonRex]

64. They don't read Wikipedia? UKUSA. It's been in Wikipedia for years.

United States
Monitors most of Latin America, Asia, Asiatic Russia, and northern China.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. What are allies for? They should be proud that we're snooping on them.

[FarCenter]

9. That is what NSA is supposed to do -- collect signals intelligence on foreigners

[RC]

12. The problem is, they the NSA, treats American citizens the same as foreign nationals.

We are all suspected terrorists.

[FarCenter]

80. Communications of American citizens are analysed by NSA mostly when in contact with foreigners

So American citizens are treated very differently than foreign nationals, and the type of information collected and/or analyzed depends on whether the American is in the US or traveling abroad and whether the American is in contact with a foreigner abroad or in the US.

[JDPriestly]

114. And who is most likely to communicate with foreign nationals?

Immigrants, of course.

So immigrants are the specific group that I would bet is most targeted for surveillance.

They can become citizens, but when they communicate with family and friends overseas, in the countries of their birth, then they become the targets of surveillance.

Welcome to America, all ye . . . . .

Oh, I forgot. That was before . . . when we were a free country that was built on the ideas and energy and ideals of immigrants wanting freedom and a better life.

Just a faint memory nowadays.

[vaberella]

90. This is where the outrage lies. Not with the OP's post.

Yet, people seem to be using it as another crutch.

[Supersedeas]

107. or old girlfriends, competitors, old friends, childhood rivals

any excuse including boredom will do...now that's power that we can believe in

[sabrina 1]

38. I imagine all countries spy on other countries, but this is about spying on the

Presidents of supposed allies.

Do you think it would be okay if Brazi's intel agencies were reading President Obama's personal correspondence?

[FarCenter]

79. I'm sure Brazil would spy on Obama's personal correspondence if they could.

The other part of NSA's mission is to keep US government communications and information secure. White House communications, as you might imagine, are a special concern.

[baldguy]

25. Greenwald's Next Bombshells: Water Is Wet; Bears Shit In The Woods.

The Pope Is Catholic.

[MannyGoldstein]

28. Good point.

I always wondered why we investigated and prosecuted the Mafia. After all, we were all pretty sure they were up to no good, anyway.

[sabrina 1]

39. Lol!

[gopiscrap]

27. I thought because of the Allende murder

that that sort of stuff was illegal

[MisterP]

45. who?

[UTUSN]

31. Note to St Glenn: Journalists are frequently shot in Mexico, but on the bright side,

hiding contraband for mule-transporting is an art form there (in crops and such), so there are ideas aplenty for thumb drives (inside piñatas)!1 But since SNOWDEN isn't a journalist, he might not be so against Mexico as a destination since he's attracted to those other paragons of human rights and freedom (China, Russia, some other Latin American vacay spots).

*********QUOTE********

[font size=5]Drugs hidden in jalapenos and Honda seized[/font]

May 30, 2013 by ADI News Services

A 34-year-old Mexican national was arrested on Tuesday in connection with the seizure of nearly 3,300 pounds of marijuana found in a tractor-trailer at the Nogales, Arizona commercial port facility. ....

*************UNQUOTE*************

[David Krout]

34. Huh? The Mexican President shot a journalist?

Or something like that? Did the NSA suspect that he shot a journalist?

Please explain what made you say that journalists are killed in Mexico, and the connection to the person who was spied on.

[Comrade Grumpy]

59. Wow, that sounded drunken. Was there a point you were trying to make?

[UTUSN]

62. amazing how supposed supporters of rights and freedoms personally attack and

Try to shut down differing opinions.

[David Krout]

68. I think the member simply wanted to know what the killing of journalists have to do...

with this news item.

[UTUSN]

72. yeah, flinging the word "drunken" in the proximity of another member

Is really a wonder. Epithets, name calling, and bullying are common techniques for shutting down dissent.

[Quantess]

76. I did not understand your post or the point you wanted to make, either.

Have you been smoking jalapenos?

[UTUSN]

103. Yeah, that'll help your case. Thanks for that. n/t

[pnwmom]

32. You forgot your sarcasm smilie.

[David Krout]

41. NSA defenders will pretend this was sarcasm

That's not hard to figure out.

pnwmom, you didn't know or suspect that the NSA was reading these Presidents' emails. It's tough to admit, but true.

[pnwmom]

42. I don't care that the NSA or CIA are spying on foreign countries.

That's their job.

[David Krout]

48. Another one who feels uncomfortable using the word "Presidents"

It would be creepy, wouldn't it?

[pnwmom]

50. The operative word is "foreign" not "President." nt

[David Krout]

61. Were these individuals suspected of a crime or threatening the security of the US?

?

[randome]

78. Are these individuals under our laws and protection now?

They may not be aware of that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[David Krout]

86. You reacted to my question with another question

Will you answer my question?

[randome]

100. The question is irrelevant since our laws do not apply to other countries.

We are under no obligation to apply our 'due process' and Bill of Rights to other countries. To do so makes us their de facto rulers.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[JDPriestly]

115. Perhaps not. (Unless you truly believe that all men are created equal and endowed by their

Creator with certain inalienable rights . . . an idea advocated by that old fool Thomas Jefferson.)

But, immigrants who become citizens of this country ARE entitled to due process.

And besides, due process is only a part of the issue here.

The First Amendment guarantees

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/first_amendment

Study free speech issues and you will learn that our Supreme Court has stated that speech may be regulated according to time, place and manner. Free speech must not be chilled based on its content. Surveillance, in my opinion, does chill speech based on its content. I am not going to be shy about sharing ragout recipes just because the government is watching what I say. But if a Republican were in the White House and in charge of the NSA, I as a Democrat might be wary of what I say about that Republican now that I know that I and everyone else on the internet am and are under surveillance.

Amendment IV states:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/fourth_amendment

That is pretty clear. Seems to me that the internet is the modern equivalent of our papers and effects. That has not been decided by the Supreme Court, and considering its current conservative, corporate make-up might not be decided as I think it should be considering the social use of the internet (which is rapidly replacing US mail for purposes of personal correspondence).

Then, go to the Cornell website and read the Fifth, Sixth and Seventh amendments. It is impossible to guarantee the right to counsel or to a fair trial if the government is using surveillance to track all communications of all people. For one thing, placing lawyers under surveillance along with all other citizens prevents individuals from consulting with their attorneys through means other than in person. And if the government is willing to place attorneys' e-mails, etc. under surveillance, what is to keep them from placing everything attorneys do to, for example, investigate a case, under surveillance. God help you if you need to be able to trust a defense attorney when you have been unfairly accused in the future.

It's tough enough to defend yourself pre-surveillance. And in many cases it won't make any difference. But there will be cases in which a defendants is truly deprived of a right to counsel because lawyer and client are intimidated from speaking freely with each other. It's too complicated to explain here, but this is very true. You only need to think about the many situations that defendants face to know that.

[Why Syzygy]

51. Are you aware of

the history of US intervention in Latin American countries? The killing of civilians and foreign government officials as well? Looks to me as if the spying is/was done to subvert sovereign nations and their people. We know. It's happened countless times.

And that's okay with you? Empire all the way?

The US is not interested in making fair agreements with these countries. Not even now.
from article
"The United States has rejected a Brazilian offer to negotiate a bilateral agreement on surveillance."

If you think bloody, US inspired 'revolutions' in Latin countries is just fine, I don't even want to know you.

[pnwmom]

56. No, I don't think we should be killing them or they should be killing us.

That's a separate issue from spying on communications.

[Why Syzygy]

63. If

not for gaining knowledge that will help in advancing corp.gov interests in those locations, what would be the need/excuse to spy? The spying makes it possible to do the killings!

[pnwmom]

65. Spying is also done defensively, and countries that are our allies

are sometimes allied with countries -- or harbor individuals or groups -- that are not.

[David Krout]

67. Is the reason why these Presidents were spied on related to an alliance with bad guys?

?

[pnwmom]

74. I guess we'll have to wait for Snowden to tell us. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

53. And, after all, they're just following orders.

[creeksneakers2]

35. Nothing helpful to Americans

in another release. Its helpful to Greenwald because he lives in Brazil.

While its not news that Americans spy on leaders of other countries, its possible the the presidents of Mexico and Brazil thought they had secure communications. There's a good chance America won't learn things it needed to learn. Is the president of Mexico conspiring with drug traffickers?

Greenwald is a traitor.

[MzShellG]

49. Bingo! nt

[WillyT]

43. K & R !!!

[daleo]

54. If nations spying on each other deserves "meh", shrug from some people

Why do they get so worked about leakers and whistleblowers? That too has existed since the dawn of time. Shouldn't it also deserve a world-weary shrug?

[whatchamacallit]

69. Exactly. SOP when we do it to others, manhunts and tribunals when it's done to us. n/t

[99th_Monkey]

57. WHAT?? I CAN'T hear you!!!

... over the war drums & rattling sabers.

[Savannahmann]

70. How to win friends and influence people.

A manual on how not to do it by the American Government. We only posture about international law, we don't actually care what it says.

[Catherina]

73. +1 n/t

[Little Star]

111. Power run amuk!

[Skittles]

81. that kinda sounds like routine stuff

[vaberella]

87. Doesn't our government spy on all leaders and vice versa?

I thought this was common knowledge and practice.

[wildbilln864]

95. Should have....

been spying on Assad!

[Scuba]

96. BENGHAZI!! BENGHAZI!! ... No? Now what? Oh, OK ... SYRIA!!! SYRIA!!!

[Arcanetrance]

101. Not really a surprise as long as there have been governments there's been espionage

I'm willing to bet those countries are spying on us as well.

[David Krout]

110. "I bet" isn't news

Are they spying on obama?

[Soundman]

102. Are people that naive?

Last edited Tue Sep 3, 2013, 07:49 AM - Edit history (1)

Just curious. Anyone remember the U.S. embassy in Russia? The great seal bug? Hardly a bombshell. It's one thing to assume it and another to be told. What do you expect them to do after being told what they already knew? Seems like there are a lot of people just hoping America looks bad on a daily basis. Use because we share a border with a country doesn't mean there are not corrupt elements within it, including the president.