George Bush had a good heart

[LearningCurve]

This I firmly believe. His policies were wrong. His upbringing was privileged and colored his world. He was easily influenced. And yet, I believe by his own world view, he mostly followed his conscience. And I choose the word mostly deliberately. He was never in charge.

Why did I post this? Because I believe Barack Obama has a good heart as well. Mostly. His ideas are better. But he is also, not in charge.

[geomon666]

1. No, he didn't. n/t

[Tigress DEM]

79. Agree 1000% Read "Bushwhacked" by Molly Ivins

*ush made deliberate privileged choices that resulted in deaths of US citizens that weren't even related to the war.

He made decisions to not inconvenience his friends in the poultry business with protections against meat on assembly lines getting contaminated with chicken feces and people died.

He made the same stupid decision several times to postpone extending energy assistance in the dead of winter and people died. He was told what would happen, but his money mattered more to him than people.

Don't TELL me he had a good heart. He had NO fucking heart except the factory issued blood pump God gave him. He never cared about anyone but himself.

[easychoice]

96. His heart pumps Shit, as a buddy from Texas told me.

n/t

[Uncle Joe]

142. Yes he did, here is an early pic to prove it.

[Solly Mack]

2. Fascinating.

[Summer Hathaway]

3. If I posted

what I "firmly believe" about your OP, and the motive behind it, I'd be PPR'd - not for breaching those 'community standards' we have been led to believe exist, but because refusing to lock-step behind this kind of dreck is now a hanging offense around these parts.

Not to worry, though - the lock-steppers will be here directly to applaud your every word.

[LearningCurve]

8. If you think this is a Bush=Obama post, you are mistaken

There are clear differences between the two. And yet, the Military Industrial Complex seems to be the power behind the throne in both cases. Neither is in charge. Influence yes, ultimate power, no.

[Summer Hathaway]

12. I never suggested

this was a Bush=Obama post - so why did you immediately go there?

By referring to the lock-steppers who would be right behind this mindless dreck, I meant the MIC/CT theorists who lap this shit up with a spoon.

[LearningCurve]

18. Ah I see

Well, I'll lay my motives out there. This is what I believe, I'm sharing my voice. Nothing more. I don't get paid to post on DU.

[Gravitycollapse]

4. George W. Bush was and continues to be a man of surprisingly inconsiderable intellect...

Who more likely than not cared little or nothing for the people over which he held dominion. He was and is an incredibly stupid man with a heart the size of a pea who wielded power like the raging alcoholic we were all told never existed.

He is a stupid man born of a stupid family populated by individuals who never had much regard for human life, justice or reason. His only claim to power is familial. His success, ignoring his utter failings, a matter of pure circumstance and was not the fruition of any sort of effort on his part.

[ProfessorGAC]

65. Aptly Stated

Captured my POV precisely. Thanks for saving me the typing time.

[Arkansas Granny]

67. You said that in a much nicer way than I would have, but you nailed it.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

72. Yesterday, heard a snip of some right wing radio guy actually complaining

we deserve a president that is "more articulate in explaining our foreign policies"

I almost ran off the road, at the hypocrisy of that, compared to Bush.

Man, if only they were that critical of him, more people might be alive on the planet.

[Frustratedlady]

105. They liked Bush because he spoke their language (in words of 7 letters, or less)

whereas Obama is too intellectual for them to understand.

Good ol' boy Bush made them feel warm and fuzzy, even though he was pinching off another chunk of their paycheck. Obama can't do anything right, in their book, which includes living in the White House.

[deutsey]

84. He was hilarious, though, like when he was looking for WMDs under a couch in the Oval Office

Funny stuff.

They were yucking it up in the crowd at the Radio and Television Correspondents Association Dinner, anyway.

http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/bush-finding-no-wmds-iraq-was-sickening-a

[Phentex]

92. That sums it up! However...

pea size is too large. Maybe, possibly, the size of a small pin head.

[smirkymonkey]

133. +10.000

[Art_from_Ark]

5. And so the revisionism of the bu$h "legacy" begins

Yeah, Governor "Held the Record for Most Executions in Texas" had a heart of gold.

Fool's gold, that is.

[LearningCurve]

7. Revisionism, perhaps

Or perhaps insight. Obama was supposed to be different. And yet, we are going to war. Neither is in control.

[Gravitycollapse]

10. Why is it the assumption that neither were or are in control?

[LearningCurve]

16. A fair question

In theory, the president of the US is the most powerful person in the world at the time we live in. I don't dispute that that person has enormous power and influence. In the last 20 years though, it seems the president has less and less power, and is moved by other forces he is beholden to through the process of being elected.

[newfie11]

70. If he is the one to declare war

The why is he not in control. Just don't do it.

[99Forever]

90. Yes, Obama CLAIMED to be "different."

However, the evidence doesn't lead me to believing it. This is a war of choice, Obama is the main one banging the war drum. He has sent his proxy minions out to pimp HIS war. He WILL have HIS war.

Not in control?

[demwing]

95. Pimp? Really?

If a Teabagger said Obama had set out to "pimp" ANYTHING, it would have been called out here as racism.

[99Forever]

127. I'm about as far away from a fucking "Teabagger" politically...

... as is humanly possible. So friend, you probably don't need for me to tell you what you can do with that fucking pile o'bullshit.

[demwing]

130. Exactly my point

You are not a teabagger, so you shouldn't encourage the comparison.

[99Forever]

131. What?

The only one thinking "race" here is YOU!

I care fuckall what color a warmonger is, I have no use for any of them.

The pulling out the race card at every gawddamn criticism directed at Obama has turned it into meaningless tripe. Weak sauce, very weak sauce.

Oh, and btw, there ARE white pimps.


And I'm the fucking racist?

[demwing]

136. Breathe (WARNING - Racially Charged Graphic)

I never called you a racist, so breath - but don't deny that there are stereotypes that are racially charged.

Is this commercial racist?

What if the food were hot dogs instead of chicken? What if the crowd were white? Would that commercial cause any controversy?

You know what? I can't prove it, but I'm sure there are more white people visiting KFCs than black people.

Just like I'm sure that there are white pimps.

What about this picture:



Offensive? What's the difference between saying that the administration was pimping, and showing Obama dressed as a pimp? Context?

Well, the photo doesn't even imply that Obama is a villain. There were no prostitutes, no guns, no fat wads of cash, just gold and fur. Your post, on the other hand ("he has sent his proxy minions out to pimp HIS war&quot , was inflammatory. You were trolling.

Having said all that, I still am not, and have not called you a racist. What I said once, then explained, was that you will draw unnecessary and unwelcome comparisons between yourself and your opponent when you repeat the same language and underscore the same stereotypes as your opponent.

[99Forever]

137. Was it racist when I said ...

... The Idiot Son, Darth Cheney and the RummyDummy were pimping the Iraq debacle?


It isn't my problem that YOU immediately think black men when the word pimp is used. That thought never even crossed my mind. But keep on perpetuating the stereotype if you must. I moved beyond that nonsense decades ago. Sorry friend, I have zero guilt about OTHER peoples hangups.

[demwing]

143. If once I be a widow, ever I be a wife!

Player King:
'Tis deeply sworn. Sweet, leave me here a while,
My spirits grow dull, and fain I would beguile
The tedious day with sleep.

Player Queen:
Sleep rock thy brain,
And never come mischance between us twain!

Hamlet:
Madam, how like you this play?

Queen:
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[99Forever]

144. You know.

I had some pretty awful things said about and to me on this forum. But this vile attack is about the lowest anyone has gone. You know jack shit about me or my history. I have nothing further to say to you.

[backwoodsbob]

6. well..in contrast

I would say Shrub was a simple minded war criminal who didn't have the brainpower to work his way out of a wet paper bag.

[LearningCurve]

11. I agree he was no genius

I look at his work for helping to curb the spread of AIDS in Africa, as well as his post presidential concerns. He was never in charge. The MIC always was, and still is.

[Gravitycollapse]

14. It is a common myth that GWB assisted the fight against AIDS in Africa.

The myth is, of course, absolutely false. The vast bulk of the money and time spent was on abstinence-only education. Which likely has contributed to the spread of HIV and thus the casualties of AIDS.

But you can continue to believe the myth if it makes you feel better.

[LearningCurve]

20. Old link, but the first I could find

Yes, money was spent on abstinence education.

From 2006-2007 it was required that 55 percent of funding was spent on treatment, 15 percent on palliative care, 10 percent on orphans and vulnerable children and 33 percent of prevention funds were spent on promoting abstinence until marriage.45

A third of total funding on abstinence is too much, in my opinion. Here's the link to the article I pulled this from.

http://www.avert.org/pepfar.htm

[TexasTowelie]

29. What post-presidential concerns?

Other than painting and the presidential library he has abdicated any role in any social policies or activities. A slug has contributed more accomplishments to benefit society than Bush in the five years since he has left office.

[Demo_Chris]

9. In one respect you are probably correct...

In one respect you are probably correct: within his own world-view Bush probably sees himself as a decent man. I think most people do. It's subjective.

What isn't subjective is the end result. Whether we are talking about Bush or Obama, that's what we have to judge. We cannot give a pass to one while condemning the other based on our opinions about what's going on in their hearts at the time. Doing so clouds objective conclusions.

[LearningCurve]

13. You are articulating this better than I am

I agree with you fully. I don't think we've had a president with impure motives since Nixon. Policy disagreements we can all discuss. The irony is those on the right call Obama a Manchurian Candidate, when I feel Bush 43 fit that profile for the Neo con dream.

[Gravitycollapse]

15. Are you shitting me? You think Reagan was a bastion of pure intentions?

[LearningCurve]

17. Um, no

I don't think anyone was a bastion of pure intentions post Nixon. Carter and Ford came closest, but neither hit the ideal. Nor do I expect anyone to who gets elected in our system. Reagan was mostly sincere in his philosophy, flawed though it was. By sincere I mean he believed most of it. I emphasize most. His reversal on gun control, for example, was a clear case of political pandering.

[Gravitycollapse]

19. "Reagan was mostly sincere in his philosophy." - Ummm...No. Actually, hell no.

Ronald Reagan was a mediocre actor who got ahead ratting out his fellow actors and actresses to be blacklisted for "un-American" activities. He was from the very nascent birth of his political life to the last time he was in office a stinking, opportunistic rat of a bastard. His personal philosophy was that of the idealized male machismo combined with the economic sense of a 5 year old.

[LearningCurve]

22. Let me say this first about Ronald Reagan before continuing

The fact that he was ever a part of HUAC, should have disqualified from election to any office in my opinion. The fact that it didn't, should tell everyone what kind of country we live in and what values we have.

That said, I think Reagan was more deluded and drank the same Kool-aid he dispensed. Nixon, damn well knew what he was doing. That is the difference in my mind. Bush the 2nd, I feel also believed the evangelical prism he viewed the world through. I don't embrace it at all, I feel so much of that view is abhorrent, but I don't think he was faking it.

I think I could have gotten along with every president we've had since Nixon, even disagreeing. One president I wanted, I don't think I could say the same for. That was Gore. Socially it probably would have been awkward, and I never believed he truly was in favor of some of the positions he felt he had to take to get elected.

[ocpagu]

21. No, he didn't.

Bush is a war criminal who should be in jail.

[LearningCurve]

24. Is any president since JFK NOT a war criminal?

I'll happily take Ford and Carter off the list.

[LittleBlue]

23. Why not? We have a few on DU who believe war is not war

war in the Mid East is necessary, we're going to achieve something with cruise missiles.

Might as well add Shrub as a good guy.

[LearningCurve]

25. That is not my point at all

If that is what you got from my post, let me clarify. The war in Iraq was a deception and certainly not motivated by alleged weapons of mass destruction. My very minority opinion, was that war was about revenge. Dad's unfinished business.

That is definitely not a pure motive. It is somehow better to me than some sort of capitalist greed to support oil resources. I certainly think that those who had those motives used that motive for their own purposes. If you want the face of a villain in that administration, I suggest Dick Cheney.

Let me make this part especially clear, Bush was wrong on so many issues. He should be held accountable by history for making bad decisions. I am saying though, Obama is also subject to many of the same influences. So let's separate the character of the person from events which may be beyond that person's control.

Also, I am against intervention in Syria.

[LittleBlue]

28. It's very possible

I will concede that it is possible. It's hard to decide whether he was stupid or malevolent, or both.

[LearningCurve]

31. My vote is for stupid

[CreekDog]

121. My vote is for TROLL. Bye!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=304999

[wickerwoman]

26. Yeah, try peddling that crap in New Orleans and see how far it gets you.

Google Bush and Karla Faye Tucker.

Also, don't forget the Scorecard of Evil (which they had to give up only two years into his term because all the nasty shit he chronically did was too exhausting to document):

http://jesseberney.com/scorecard_print.html

It's possible to be a puppet and also a thoroughly emotionally, morally and intellectually stunted human being as well.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

68. Interesting scorecard.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

73. Wow ...Thanks for posting. This must have taken

tons of effort to pull together....amazing.

Is interesting though that one evil listed is that Bush ordered the assasination of Bin Laden

[G_j]

27. not against loving everyone

I'll trust in karma for the rest

[avaistheone1]

30. Bush executed a lot of people in Texas. He didn't show any compassion at all.

Remember how he mocked Karla Faye Tucker's request for mercy?

I don't find him a good person.

[LearningCurve]

32. Here's the thing about Texas

I've quoted the significant part, and also included the link.

Unlike governors in many states, the Texas Governor cannot independently issue a pardon or sentence commutation. In death penalty cases, the Governor can issue one thirty-day reprieve.

http://texaspolitics.laits.utexas.edu/1_7_0.html

[Major Nikon]

63. There's a bit more to the story

First, the Texas governor appoints the pardon and parole board. Next, the pardon and parole board can't act independently either and in fact only makes recommendations back to the governor for action. So while it may be true that the governor can't act "independently" on such things, it doesn't mean he/she is absolved from responsibility for the outcome. The buck still stops at the governor's office.

[deutsey]

88. And one would presume the Governor should never be a heartless dick

and mock someone's plea for clemency.

[polly7]

33. No matter how much a puppet you think he was,

someone with 'a good heart' would not be proud to this day of the carnage and horror he unleashed in Iraq.

[LearningCurve]

34. Hmm

I can't quite agree. Is Iraq better or worse after our intervention? I honestly can't answer that question now. I can say with certainty, justice was served vis a vis Saddam Hussein.

I can say with certainty though, it has destroyed our credibility in the Middle East. I'm not sure how history will view the cost benefit analysis.

[polly7]

35. That pretty much tells me all I need to know about what you think

constitutes having a 'good heart'. The ongoing horrific violence, the sheer number of orphans and widows and refugees, the women who once worked as lawyers, doctors now hiding inside their homes, the children suffering in huge numbers with illness both physical and mental - a direct result of the atrocities they've lived through. That you're even wondering, says it all.

[LearningCurve]

36. Here's why I wonder

http://www.ibtimes.com/ten-years-baghdad-how-iraq-has-changed-saddam-1138161

[polly7]

38. Wtf?

Despite it's title, the article is dealing with the differences between the start of the invasion and now, not pre-invasion under Hussein, except for this: “Iraq has gone through wars [including the Iran-Iraq war of 1980-1988 and the Gulf War of 1991] that completely disrupted civil society. They went through years of sanctions [enforced by the UN after Iraqi troops invaded Kuwait in 1990]. They went through de-Ba'athification, which took away a lot of the government personnel. So to expect this country to pop back into shape now is unreasonable. The threats are really quite real, and quite severe.”

Well no shit. Those genocidal sanctions pretty much ensured Iraq - pre-invasion - was turned into a hellhole for everyone living there.

[LearningCurve]

40. Perhaps this link is better

These are people who went through Hell.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/11/not-forgotten-kurd-perspective-on-iraq-war

[polly7]

43. No-one has ever said the Kurds didn't suffer under Hussein.

However, Iraqi people as a whole have NOT benefited from the invasion and destruction.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10171065

Iraq remains one of the most violent places on earth. Following the final withdrawal of all coalition troops at the end of 2011, violence has escalated again. In 2012 alone, 4568 civilians were killed in attacks across Iraq, including many conducted by a resurgent al-Qaeda. The irony here barely needs to be stated: there was no credible al-Qaeda presence in Iraq before the coalition forces staged the intervention in Iraq — but there certainly is now.

A 2011 report from the Centre for Global Development ranked Iraq as the worst-performing middle-income country in the world on all eight of the Millennium Development Goals (extreme poverty, hunger, education, gender equality, child health, maternal health, HIV/AIDS, and water). Yet, at the same time, Iraq’s GDP (purchasing power parity) has skyrocketed in recent years to an estimated $155.4 billion in 2012, making it 62nd in the world. In other words, while major Western oil companies extract billions of dollars in revenue from Iraq’s rich natural resources, many thousands of Iraqis continue to live in destitution among the nations crumbling and insufficient infrastructure.

http://www.upstart.net.au/2013/03/18/iraq-a-forgotten-state/


Iraq: The Women's Story

The invasion of Iraq heralded promises of freedom from tyranny and equal rights for the women of Iraq. But three years on, the reality of everyday life for women inside Iraq is a different story.

By Zeena Ahmed
This Channel4 Dispatches film provides a compelling account of life inside Iraq that is rarely seen on news bulletins: stories of ordinary women whose struggle to survive has only worsened since the war.

Baghdad Burning

... I'll meet you 'round the bend my friend, where hearts can heal and souls can mend...

Tuesday, April 09, 2013

Ten Years On...

April 9, 2013 marks ten years since the fall of Baghdad. Ten years since the invasion. Since the lives of millions of Iraqis changed forever. It’s difficult to believe. It feels like only yesterday I was sharing day to day activities with the world. I feel obliged today to put my thoughts down on the blog once again, probably for the last time.

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.ca/



But I bet it warmed Shrub's big ol' heart that his Hunt Oil buddy was the first to benefit from the carnage.

Iraqi Oil Spoils

Published: October 15, 2007

The quickening pace of oil deals between Kurdish regional leaders and foreign companies is another sign that Iraq is spinning out of control and the Bush administration has no idea how to stop it.

President Bush set enactment of a national oil law that centralizes development and ensures an equitable division of the profits as a key benchmark of progress. Iraq’s leaders, who have little interest in equity or reconciliation, have blithely ignored it. So the Kurds have taken matters into their own hands, signing nine legally questionable exploration deals with foreign companies.

The administration has complained that the deals “needlessly elevated tensions” between the Kurds and the central government. But it apparently hasn’t leaned very hard on the one American oil company involved, Hunt Oil of Dallas, which has close ties to the White House. Iraq’s oil ministry, meanwhile, has warned that the contracts will be either ignored or considered illegal.

We cannot blame the Kurds for wanting to get on with exploiting their region’s lucrative oil deposits for energy and for profit. While the rest of Iraq is convulsed in violence and politically paralyzed, the Kurdish-administered northeast is the one relatively peaceful region, with functioning schools and government, a separate army and booming business.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/15/opinion/15mon1.html?ref=huntoilcompany

[LearningCurve]

45. Again, a mixed bag

I may have a personal bias. When in Europe, I got to know several Kurds before the Iraq war. And by before, I mean pre Desert Storm. I still keep in contact, and for them, life in Iraq is dramatically improved.

[polly7]

47. A mixed bag for you, I guess. But you're not in Iraq so that means nothing, really. nt.

[LearningCurve]

48. No I'm not in Iraq

But I have friends who are. In their part of Iraq, US intervention was a God send.

[polly7]

49. 'Intervention?' You keep using that.

What exactly was going on that needed intervention? It was a bloody illegal invasion, full-stop. And I'm not unfeeling enough to ignore that for the Kurds and some others, life under Hussein was worse. You seem to completely ignore the plight of everyone else.

[LearningCurve]

50. Not ignoring at all

And yes, for some it is worse. That is why I use the term "mixed bag." For some things are better, others not. As for what needed intervention, I'll provide a link.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/05/world/05iht-saddam.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[polly7]

53. How do you justify 'intervention' for something that happened in

1988 and was ignored because Hussein was tipping the balance against Iran?

The intelligence included imagery and maps about Iranian troop movements, as well as the locations of Iranian logistics facilities and details about Iranian air defenses. The Iraqis used mustard gas and sarin prior to four major offensives in early 1988 that relied on U.S. satellite imagery, maps, and other intelligence. These attacks helped to tilt the war in Iraq's favor and bring Iran to the negotiating table, and they ensured that the Reagan administration's long-standing policy of securing an Iraqi victory would succeed. But they were also the last in a series of chemical strikes stretching back several years that the Reagan administration knew about and didn't disclose.

U.S. officials have long denied acquiescing to Iraqi chemical attacks, insisting that Hussein's government never announced he was going to use the weapons. But retired Air Force Col. Rick Francona, who was a military attaché in Baghdad during the 1988 strikes, paints a different picture.

"The Iraqis never told us that they intended to use nerve gas. They didn't have to. We already knew," he told Foreign Policy.

According to recently declassified CIA documents and interviews with former intelligence officials like Francona, the U.S. had firm evidence of Iraqi chemical attacks beginning in 1983. At the time, Iran was publicly alleging that illegal chemical attacks were carried out on its forces, and was building a case to present to the United Nations. But it lacked the evidence implicating Iraq, much of which was contained in top secret reports and memoranda sent to the most senior intelligence officials in the U.S. government. The CIA declined to comment for this story.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/25/secret_cia_files_prove_america_helped_saddam_as_he_gassed_iran?wp_login_redirect=0

Intervention means to me, the act of intervening. Obviously, no-one did. You don't get to claim you are decades later.

[LearningCurve]

54. Not sure what you're asking

Is the question, why didn't we do something sooner? If so, the honest answer is no one gave a shit then. Iraq was seen as a counter balance to Iran, and the Saddam's crimes were met with a blind eye.

Was the Iraq invasion done to make life better for the Kurds? Of course not. Yet it did have that effect. I do believe the intent to set up a post Saddam government was done with the best of intentions. I also believe Joe Biden was right on this issue. Incredibly right, in fact. Too bad he was ridiculed and ignored in an area he has expertise in.

I hope that answers the asked question and any unasked question. If not, I'll continue to respond and try to clarify.

[polly7]

58. You claimed the invasion and destruction of a country was

'intervening' in something that happened decades ago and ... obviously, that can't happen. I agree that Biden's got a good heart and probably has the best intentions in most everything he says and does, but he had nothing to do with setting up the puppet post Hussein government that's reaping the spoils of opening up Iraq's oil while watching its people suffer.

[CreekDog]

66. I thought you just said he had a good heart, now you're all in on Iraq?

[CreekDog]

64. you've gone from defending Bush's "heart" to defending his policies in Iraq

wow. quite a leap.

and to defend the policies that marked the very, very worst aspect of his presidency.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

139. Is "serving justice" a good thing when a million innocents die?

I think the question answers itself.

[avaistheone1]

115. Over 100,000 Iraqis dead directly tied to Bush's Iraq war lies.

That George Bush is a peach.

So glad Obama forgave Bush war crimes. NOT!

[ismnotwasm]

37. Oh bullshit

You don't know much about his life and career apparently.

[LearningCurve]

39. Having lived in Texas

I think I know a bit

[ismnotwasm]

41. Like what?

I know a bit as well.

[LearningCurve]

42. Ask away

Where do you think I am lacking insight?

[ismnotwasm]

44. Offer something

An example, say of his good heart. I actually know one involving the Texas education system. What do you have?

[LearningCurve]

46. Funding to combat AIDS in Africa

He went against his own party on overseas aid for humanitarian reasons.

[ismnotwasm]

51. He did do that

Channeled money through churches-- in part-- to do it. It was well done nonetheless. That was overshawdered by his restoration of the Global Gag Rule; I don't know how much you know about HIV transmission in Africa, but restoring the gag rule did NOT help the fight against AIDs.

[LearningCurve]

52. The money did come with some strings

But the results were tremendous.

Here's a link.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/health/121130/africa-hiv-aids-aid-bush-obama-un

[ismnotwasm]

55. Oh I know what happened

How does this prove he 'has a good heart' ? He a few special interests to please, hired a drug company CEO with a shady background, had a great cause for political expediency,

and the gag rule STILL was just evil.

[LearningCurve]

57. All elected officials have special interests to please

The amount of aid to Africa though, went far beyond any obligation to members of the Republican base, many would say counter to it. In fact, it's something you'd normally associate with a Democrat.

Gotta nod off for the night. Thanks for the conversation. Happy to resume tomorrow.

[ismnotwasm]

60. Nite

But you're wrong.

[CreekDog]

120. Better use your other screenname then

looks like this one's be caught trolling (for anyone who had any doubt they weren't being trolled by the OP...)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=304999

[JI7]

134. i suspected it for some time

[MoonRiver]

80. I grew up in Texas, still have lots of family there.

I knew from the beginning that ignorant, lying SOB would destroy this country and every living thing he could get his evil clutches on, given half a chance, which he, tragically, was. Being such a fool, he could never have pulled it off, however, without a lot of help from his more intellectually endowed war mongering toadies.

[Major Nikon]

100. Did you know Shrub was born and educated in New England?

His family summered in Kennebunkport when he was growing up.

Most Texans (or at least those who live here and claim to be) I've asked don't know these things. I'm not sure your residency status matters as much as you think. It may pain you to hear this, but Shrub was a phony. His entire persona was built on deceit. Even his accent is fake. I'm from West Texas not far from where Bush claims to be from, born and raised and I can promise you I know a bit about Shrub. Shrub bought his pig farm in 1999 and prior to this had lived in the suburbs all his life. He didn't know one end of a cow from another. Your claim that Shrub was too stupid to know he was a pawn is not a great one. There's simply nothing good about him. He may have fooled you into believing otherwise, but he fooled a lot of people. His father was rotten to the core as well.

[eridani]

56. Bush has always been a totally amoral sociopath

From a childhood blowing up frogs, to an adolescence torturing fraternity pledges, to an adulthood laughing at a woman about to be executed in Texas.

Obama has a perfectly normal moral compass--it's just that he was elected to be the head of a huge military empire. This generally leads to acting the part eventually.

[mattclearing]

59. It's true he had an abnormally low resting heart rate...

...but that fucker is evil to the core.

[JHB]

61. That part of your firm belief is sadly mistaken

His worldview is that of an overpriviledged wastrel who kept failing upward due to a golden Rolodex and a talent for schmoozing.

Friday, Mar 19, 2004 8:51 PM UTC
“Who cares what you think?”
That's what President Bush shot back at me when I told him what I thought of his performance. As November approaches, I have to thank him for pointing me toward exactly the right question.
By Bill Hangley Jr.

It was July 4, 2001, and we were both at one of those things that the late historian Daniel Boorstin would have labeled a “pseudo event”: a church picnic in Philadelphia, designed to help promote George W. Bush’s faith-based policies. Because I had serious misgivings about the president’s performance to that point, my own involvement in the whole operation had left me feeling a bit like a pseudo person, so when I had the chance to shake Bush’s hand, I said, “Mr. President, I hope you only serve one term. I’m very disappointed in your work so far.”

His smiling response was swift: “Who cares what you think?”

http://www.salon.com/2004/03/19/bush_encounter/

[Turbineguy]

62. I don't think we have

yet fully quantified the damage the Bush administration has done.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

69. If Bush had a good heart, why did he allow the torture activities?

Last edited Thu Sep 5, 2013, 10:05 AM - Edit history (1)

[Gidney N Cloyd]

86. This.

[Bobbie Jo]

71. What a load.

Oh, and welcome to DU....

[PCIntern]

74. I know I'm late to the party, but

[MoonRiver]

75. Could not disagree more!

OMG, that A-hole is one of the most evil psychopaths I have ever had the misfortune to encounter.

[Iggo]

76. Bull-fucking-shit. (n/t)

[spanone]

77. bullshit...cheney rumsfeld??? bullshit

[tridim]

78. Neo-DU, where Bush is praised and good Democrats are trashed constantly.

Seriously thinking about getting the hell out of here. This place has gone completely insane.

[Turborama]

83. A jury let it stand 3:3

[PCIntern]

85. Next up:

Reagan had a sunny disposition.

[Bobbie Jo]

106. This troll is outta here....

But the jury?

Looking at his posting history, he had fans to boot.

You Better Believe It.

[tridim]

112. One troll down, about 500 to go IMO. They are ruining DU.

The jury system is completely rig-able, it is being abused by people like this troll. I don't even pay attention to it any more.

[Number23]

126. Thanks for the heads up, BJ! But like tridim said, 1 down 5000 to go

Whenever I do decide to come here I bypass the home page completely now. I haven't looked at the home page of DU in months because I already know who's gonna be there and what they'll be saying. And most of it is moronic mindlessness.

[Number23]

125. You would be in good company if you did go. Lots of good actual Democrats got the hell out

years ago.

[cordelia]

81. By all accounts I've read, he most certainly did not.

[Warpy]

82. You BOUGHT that?

That "aw shucks, ma'am" demeanor was a put on. His real accent was edumacated southerner.

Although he wasn't smart enough to have dreamed up all the devilry of his administration, he was a full and willing participant in it.

[Dash87]

87. I don't agree. He was not a good person, but was also a puppet.

He was a spoiled legacy that has never known real struggle. He had everything handed to him on a silver platter while chastising the poor for not working hard enough. He was a childish baby that never grew up because he was never challenged intellectually and never left his comfort zone.

He was also Cheney's finger-puppet. He was a puppet for the defense industry, and bowed to their every whim. His policies were as disastrous as his response to 9/11.

I have always found the "Bush = Hitler" responses stupid, but he wasn't a good man either, imo.

[deutsey]

93. +1

[Turborama]

89. EarlG's personally delivered the troll a pizza

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=304999&sub=trans

[Phentex]

91. as did Hitler, Manson & the person who invented panty hose...

It's your opinion but I would strongly disagree.

[easychoice]

97. Absolutely wrong Poster.The worst of the worst!

The whole family belongs in a SuperMax.All of them!

[HERVEPA]

98. This poster has been sent to his final reward.

[MoonRiver]

99. Good news

[Paladin]

103. And deservedly so. (nt)

[HappyMe]

109. Thank you MIRT.

[CreekDog]

122. on 3 juries though

[Avalux]

101. Nope. A man with a good heart would be trying - now - to right his wrongs.

Instead, Shrub is holed up in isolation. He either doesn't care or is so guilt ridden he can't face his legacy.

A man with a good heart acts differently after making a mistake (or many).

[tabasco]

102. You're not a good judge of character

George AWOL Bush and his master Dick Cheney are two of the most evil people to serve in high office.

[hatrack]

104. No, he didn't. He cared about himself, his family and his rich friends.

He cared about power, surpassing Daddy and money.

The rest of us could go fuck ourselves, and just over 50% of us bent over (twice) in return for a $300 tax refund and a heaping helping of Jeebus-humping bullshit.

[DirkGently]

107. Actions define who we are.

Intentions are important. But it's what we do and the impact we have that defines good and evil.

All the talk about good guys and bad guys, and by extension, fans and critics, misses the point.

Obama is smarter than Bush, and presumably better informed about the world and the possible consequences of his actions. We therefore expect him to do better things.

But both are only as good as what they choose to do, each and every time.

Bush chose ... badly. And often.

[Xyzse]

108. He's still alive

Of course he has a good heart for his age.
He's pretty athletic.

Oh wait, you mean the metaphysical good heart... I am not willing to judge that.
He had the worst priorities and methods to get there. He was effective however in passing what he wants even if I am against it.

[Tom Ripley]

110. I will wait for a grizzly bear's assessment of the goodness of his heart

[Vashta Nerada]

111. A warmonger cannot and does not have a good heart.

Or a conscience.

[edhopper]

113. Hitler loved his dog

[img][/img]

Just saying. Goodwin's law and all.

GWB showed throughout his political career a complete lack of empathy with anybody that his policies or actions adversely affected.
He never took any responsibility for any of his disastrous decisions and never even questioned his dreadful acts.
Remember this is the man who made preemptive war (ie invading a country just because he wanted to) and torture American policy.

So no, Bush did not have a good heart. He did everything just to benefit himself and the elite few and disregard the rest.

[napkinz]

114. In one post you defend Bush, in another George Zimmerman

You can't fool us.

[Zorra]

116. Bush was a spoiled, deranged, lying, RW fundy sociopath who slaughtered peasants

for profit. Etc.

[Tikki]

117. george bush so did NOT have a good heart...didn't fool me once, twice or never..

Where we end up here and now with President Obama is yet to be known.



Tikki

[ecstatic]

118. Bush was never qualified/thoughtful enough to be President. His heart is irrelevant

It's not enough to have a good heart, you also have to have some inkling of wtf you're doing and the ability to process new information to make decisions. Though I'm not on the same page with the administration this time around, I happen to believe President Obama has both (a good heart and qualified to be potus).

As far as Pres. Obama not being in charge? That's true to a certain extent. As you know, there are 3 branches of government. We don't do the dictator thing here.

[Bettie]

119. I don't think he had a good heart

I do think he is more stupid than evil, but the difference between the two isn't all that much.

I also believe that he acted without any real malice toward those who aren't his friends/allies, mostly because he would never even think of them, for good or ill.

In other words, he's not a decent human being, but he's also probably not as evil as Dick Cheney and those of his ilk.

[bigwillq]

123. Bush did not have a good heart, imo.

I think Obama does, but I question a lot of Obama's decisions. He seems like he wants to do the right thing, but has issues actually achieving them. Obama has done a lot of good, but some of his decisions really puzzle me.

[Arugula Latte]

124. Sorry, but you are delusional.

Bush and his family care for nothing but themselves and their very, very rich corporate cohorts and/or Saudi oil baron buddies. I truly think he has sociopathic tendencies -- remember his laughter at and mocking of the woman who was to be executed?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

128. Uh.

[WinkyDink]

129. WTBloodyH?!?! Bush was an EVIL, EVIL MAN. He thought it was GREAT, e.g., when a poor woman told him

she was working 3 jobs.

Bush was a sniggering, cowardly (you DO remember his going AWOL, do you not?), infantile war-monger.

GET A GRIP ON REALITY, POLLYANNA.

[bluestate10]

132. I agree with you, GW Bush has a good heart. But unfortunately even some people that

have good hearts end up doing bad things. GW Bush was amendable and ended up surrounding himself with some evil people, like Dick Cheney, the need to have evil people near was GW Bush's big weakness.

[Ilsa]

135. I think he's closer to being a sociopath.

And I lived in Texas during his governorship, too.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

138. Joseph Stalin had a nice pancreas. He was very much in charge.

[markpkessinger]

140. Or maybe . . .

You are telling yourself what you need to believe.

[senseandsensibility]

141. You're naive.

Of course he didn't and whether Obama does or not is irrelevant. This is a life or death issue.